Another SDO purchase?

What would be a "good" deal on a SDO 2 bdrm Every Year, true Platinum unit?

I just purchased a EOY SDO in summer, and am pretty impressed with the available trades that come along in II. With me getting closer to retirement, and my wife & I able to travel on a more flexible basis, I think it might make sense for me to take a look at another purchase, especially at the low prices out there right now. I'm thinking $1-$2k range.

pacman

In this thread about owning at SDO It seems to be saying that currently SDO weeks are selling well below $1,000.

I would guess in the $1000 range if your patient, but it is still way too much IMO.

Tread very carefully in buying Starwood. You never know when Starwood will change the rules again in their favor and make exchanging more difficult than they have recently made it. And dont disregard the chance that Starwood will change the platinum designation for what you buy.

Interval can also change the trade power of Starwood weeks if they feel the demand is lower than anticipated and/or the weeks given back to Interval by Starwood under the new system are of lower demand than what Starwood members as a whole receive as exchanges.

With these issues and the probability of more high maintenance fee increases next year I wouldnt touch any Starwood unit right now.

Here are the prices I have for the last year from e-bay on 2 bd EY 1-52 float SDO units:

1/4/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1259
1/18/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 815
1/20/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 746
1/20/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1802
1/23/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1426
2/2/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1100
2/2/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1259
2/4/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1113
2/11/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2576
2/25/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2025
3/3/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2697
3/15/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1251
3/23/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 3250
3/23/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 3050
4/4/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1997
4/24/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2304
4/24/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1997
4/30/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1225
4/30/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1525
5/1/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2900
5/18/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2551
5/25/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1777
5/31/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2136
6/2/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1375
6/5/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2285
6/10/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1502
6/15/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2114
6/21/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1578
8/6/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1475
8/23/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1625
9/6/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1275
10/19/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2325
12/6/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 2020
12/10/2009 2 bd LO EY FL 1526

True plat units are much rarer. It's hard to say what would be a good price. Last year one sold for $3300. Often they are mis-identified as 1-52 floats.

Glorian

A week ago, there was another auction on ebay, float week 1-52, every year usage, 2BR L/O which was sold about $800 range.

yumdrey said:

A week ago, there was another auction on ebay, float week 1-52, every year usage, 2BR L/O which was sold about $800 range.

Click to expand...

Are you referring to this one?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-BR-Lockoff-5-...dZViewItemQQptZTimeshares?hash=item4838aa88c7

It turns out it was not a 1-52 float, but a Gold season float. Hard to know if some bidders figured this out based on the unit number and that depressed bidding. It came up in a prior thread (see post #13 forward):

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=836821#post836821

Glorian

gmarine said:

Tread very carefully in buying Starwood. You never know when Starwood will change the rules again in their favor and make exchanging more difficult than they have recently made it. And dont disregard the chance that Starwood will change the platinum designation for what you buy.

Interval can also change the trade power of Starwood weeks if they feel the demand is lower than anticipated and/or the weeks given back to Interval by Starwood under the new system are of lower demand than what Starwood members as a whole receive as exchanges.

With these issues and the probability of more high maintenance fee increases next year I wouldnt touch any Starwood unit right now.

Click to expand...

From what I've read, SDO continues to trade well even after Starwood implemented the new rules for II exchanges. It is true that Starwood and/or II could make a change that negatively effects the trade power of SDO, but this is true with any resort/system.

SDO is a quality resort in a desirable location. If you have reasonable trade expectations I think it will continue to be a solid trader.

hi pacman,

i recommend you wait and see what happens. please don't make the newbie mistake, like i did some time back, of putting all your eggs in one basket. what seems like a great deal today may only be a few high percentage MF hikes and special assessments away from a rip off tomorrow. plus, the available trades you see today may not be comparable with what you will see in the future. the new starwood/II trading system has yet to be proven, and if necessary, legally challenged by owners. the large number of hoa delinquencies have yet to get in the hand of new owners who will actually pay the dues.

in the meantime, if you are flexible, you may find plenty of II getaway deals that are cheaper than MF & exchanging altogether.

Stefa said:

SDO is a quality resort in a desirable location. If you have reasonable trade expectations I think it will continue to be a solid trader.

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I guess this was my thinking. With a purchase price of, lets say $2k, the risk is pretty minimal. Yes, things may change, but like Stefa says, that is no different than any other resort.

My other option is to add a Worldmark ts, as they are so strong on the west coast, and trade pretty strong in II from what I understand. The downside is the original purchase price -$6 for a 10k point purchase.

pacman

pacman said:

I guess this was my thinking. With a purchase price of, lets say $2k, the risk is pretty minimal. Yes, things may change, but like Stefa says, that is no different than any other resort.

My other option is to add a Worldmark ts, as they are so strong on the west coast, and trade pretty strong in II from what I understand. The downside is the original purchase price -$6 for a 10k point purchase.

pacman

Click to expand...

Your correct, things can change at any resort. However Starwood has already shown that it will completely disregard the deeded rights of owners and maintenance fees are out of control at several resorts. Starwood also completely disregards owner complaints. Both my Starwood units are going up for sale shortly because I think the value is headed to zero.

FYI, Worldmark trades better than SDO using II. WM prices are also down. With patience you could probably pick up credits in the 45 cent range.

pacman said:

My other option is to add a Worldmark ts, as they are so strong on the west coast, and trade pretty strong in II from what I understand. The downside is the original purchase price -$6 for a 10k point purchase.

pacman

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You are living on west, so I would recommend worldmark. You already have SDO which you are satisfied for trading. You don't have to worry about future trading power of Worldmark, because they have decent resorts on west and also you can enjoy bonus time (short stay trips) as a owner. Even if they don't trade well in the future (if II ever change the rules), you still can use Worldmark resorts. About trading in II, SDO is good to catch Starwood bulk bankings, but Worldmark is good to catch Marriotts or Hyatts (or starwood flexchanges).
For 10K package, fully loaded, it is around $4,500 - $5,000 from reputable sellers.

gmarine said:

FYI, Worldmark trades better than SDO using II.

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I have to agree 200%.
I just booked Harborside, 1BR Jan. 24 check-in from II, it is flexchange and it cost only 4k WM credit. It is about $200 MF.
If your time is flexible, want to play trading game and if you love to go to Hawaii & westcoast area, WM will save you money (MF) by using flexchange. I have 20k credit and can have 5 flexchange with it. All my flexchanges were 2BR except this harborside. I pay $1,000 MF for 20k credit. So which one is better buy?

With WM, do you deposit points in II, or do you book a week, and deposit a week with II?

pacman

pacman said:

With WM, do you deposit points in II, or do you book a week, and deposit a week with II?

pacman

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WM owners don't book weeks for trading. For regular trades (not flexchange), if you get 2BR in peak season, your 10K credit will be automatically deducted from your account. 1BR is 9k and studio is 8k. If it's off season, 8k for 2BR, 7k for 1BR and 6k for studio (not sure for off season points).
For flexchange, what unit size you get is not matter, all flexchanges (1BR or 4BR) are the same, 4k credits. WM deposit the weeks for you to II (after trading is confirmed), it is similar to what starwood does for SVN members.
One great thing of WM is, you can search with 3BR WM unit, it has great search power, and if you pick 2BR in Hawaii, only 10k (2BR credits) will be taken from your account (not 3BR credits your are searching with). So you can search with 3BR, and grab whatever you like (1BR, 2BR, etc...), then only the unit size you get decides the credit number to be taken.
Once I booked Marriott Phuket Club (Thailand), 2BR, fourth of July week, and it cost only 8k WM credit, because 7/4 week is gold season in Marriott Phuket Club calendar. It wasn't flexchange. 8K WM credit is $400 MF, and plus exchange fee of $159 = approx. $560.
If you don't use your current year's WM points, they are automatically added to next year's points. Also, you can borrow next year's points to use this year for free. So all 3 year's points (last year, current year, next year) are equal to trade. For WM, points are just points, it's trading value is not changed by when you got the points.
I didn't try request first yet, all my exchanges were from instant online search, but I've heard from other WM owners that they got great exchanges by using request first (for tough season/resorts).

Is flexchange something unique to WM? I don't see that in my current II account for my SDO. Is flexchange just a short notice thing?

pacman

All exchanges which have check-in dates within 59 days are flexchange. No matter what size unit I used for search, all flexchanges are worth 4k WM credits, it is equal credit to white season, studio unit in WM. It is an arrangement between II and WM.
In other words, when you do online instant search, you see many availabilities. Among them, check-in dates within 59 days are flexchange. If you grab one of them, no matter what size you found it with, you just spend 4k WM credit.

pacman, I can see that you own HGVC. They are very similar for the terms of trading.
Just like HGVC has their own arrangement with RCI, WM has an arrangement with II and RCI.
For example, you spend 4800 HGVC points for 2BR, peak season RCI exchange. If it's off season, you spend less points. It is the same in WM and II/RCI. You spend 10k WM points for all peak season, 2BR units you got for exchange.
You don't have to deposit your HGVC week to make RCI trading, because HGVC has co. RCI account. They just deduct your HGVC points from your account after RCI exchange is made. It is the same with WM. You don't deposit your WM week. You just make exchange, then WM will take appropriate points from your account.
One good thing of WM is, they have special arrangement with II/RCI, all flexchange is 4K WM credits. WM trades both for RCI and II.
I love both HGVC and WM. Both systems are very flexible, owner-friendly system. WM offers "Bonus time" and HGVC offers "Open Season". Both systems have wonderful online real time reservation system.
WM has more flexibility than HGVC and many more resorts, is better value for trading, but HGVC offers more luxury.
For trading purpose, WM hands down.

pacman

Although I do believe SDO is a sound choice (for the reasons I stated above), I would not recommend purchasing SDO just because it is cheap. Don't buy another SDO unless it meets your future needs.

It is worth the extra expense for Worldmark if it will better fit your travel plans. I recently sold my SDO because I realized that Marriott was a better option for me. I was satisfied with my SDO, but I think I will be happier with my Marriott.

I too was looking into changing from buying an SDO trader to buying WM after all the II changes w/ *wood, but after looking into the quality of the WM resorts I decided to stick with trying to buy @ SDO (Not that WM properties seem bad, they just don’t seem to be as nice as Westin’s, Hyatt’s Marriott’s). Until reading the above info, I had no idea that WM traded so well into the higher-end resorts!

I was actually the one that won the (1-52 EY 2BR L/O) mentioned above that was really a Gold Season. The ebay seller said they would sell me the next (1-52 EY 2br L/O) that they come across at my $832 winning bid.

But after reading this...It seems to me that WM might be the best deal going, even with the up higher up front costs. I also want to go mostly to west coast destinations. (Palm Springs, Ski Destinations, HI, AZ for spring training and Mexico) Other than spring training we are very flexible with our travel times.

Do you think 10k in points are the minimum a person should buy?

Great info....Thanks!!

Scott

pacman said:

Is flexchange something unique to WM? I don't see that in my current II account for my SDO. Is flexchange just a short notice thing?

pacman

Click to expand...

Flexchange is not unique to WM. 59 days prior to check in, II removes all trade restrictions. During flexchange any size unit at any resort can trade for any other unit/resort that is available. The only exception I am aware of is Marriott still has a three day window where only other Marriott owners can see Marriott weeks.

Lots of good stuff shows up during flexchange. The catch is you have to be watching for it because everyone else can see it too.

longboarder39 said:

But after reading this...It seems to me that WM might be the best deal going, even with the up higher up front costs. I also want to go mostly to west coast destinations.
Do you think 10k in points are the minimum a person should buy?

Great info....Thanks!!

Scott

Click to expand...

Boy, I am tending to agree with longboarder. With WM trading strong in II, I think I may have to do my due diligence research on WM and seriously look at a purchase. I have the same question as longboarder, is 10k points enough? I know you can "rent" more points if needed.

Sorry Moderator, this is turning into a WM post vs a Starwood post.

pacman

No Prob pacman - but you might want to check out the TUG WM Board - lots of great info. there. I'd start with the stickies at the top of their forum.

DeniseM said:

No Prob pacman - but you might want to check out the TUG WM Board - lots of great info. there. I'd start with the stickies at the top of their forum.

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Thanks Denise
Yes, I've already spent a couple of hours checking the WM stickies, plus the WMO forum. Denise, I 'd appreciate your opinion. I see you don't own WM, and just wondering why you've not gone that route.

pacman

DeniseM said:

No Prob pacman - but you might want to check out the TUG WM Board - lots of great info. there. I'd start with the stickies at the top of their forum.

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I agree that the WM board is the best place to start...

I actually went to a Worldmark property very recently on a short stay just to see the units for myself and learn more about the system (yes, we attended the "fun and informative presentation"). This is after I did a bunch of reading on TUG.

Seeing the units was helpful (definitely below Starwood quality), but I must say that I learned much more from TUG than I did from the presentation, especially about the things they don't want you to know. Surprisingly they never mentioned that MF increases are capped, probably because MFs were hardly mentioned at all ("prepaid" and "you only pay for it once" were mentioned quite a bit)... but either way affordability is certainly the strong point of the program.

pacman said:

Thanks Denise
Yes, I've already spent a couple of hours checking the WM stickies, plus the WMO forum. Denise, I 'd appreciate your opinion. I see you don't own WM, and just wondering why you've not gone that route.

pacman

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I'm not Denise (obviously) but here are my thoughts on some reason why someone would choose not to own WM:

--They can get what they want for less/WM is too expensive.
--They prefer higher-end resorts.
--Can't travel during flexchange. (If I'm reading yumdrey's posts correctly, much of the trade value comes from a huge advantage during flexchange.)
--They want specific resorts/dates/locations that they can't get with WM.
--They own a wonderful timeshare or two and are quite satisfied with what they have. They don't need to add WM, Marriott or anything else. (I believe this describes Denise who owns at Kauai Beach Villas.)

In no way am I suggesting Worldmark is not a great system. It's just not for everyone. That is why you need to base your decision on what YOU want rather than on what someone else tells you to buy. Most of us would probably own more than one kind of timeshare if we had unlimited time and resources.