At Desert Springs Villas, Spa and hotel access no more, effective 1/1/10

Front desk staff advised us that starting tomorrow DSVI owners will no longer have access to the spa or fitness center at the hotel or the hotel facilities like the pools. But, "you can still eat there."

I'm not sure what happened, as there's been no explanation from the HOA.

Until we learn why the agreement ended between DSVI and the hotel, we do not intend to spend one bloody penny at the hotel.

We owners should start a write in campaign to the GM and Marriott.

I hope DSV stops the shuttle service to the hotel, as that only encourages owners to spend money there.

Any one know if there is a spa at Club Intrawest or Desert Willow accross the street?

I'am speechless..That really is bad...

Marriott platinum members have free access to the fitness/spa facilities at the JW Marriott at Desert Ridge in Phoenix, even when staying at Canyon Villas. Does the JW in Desert Springs have a similar policy? This would help for some. If I owned at DSV1, I would be very upset. Marriott is only hurting themselves, and continue to alienate MVC owners.

Big bummer explained

The explanation is as follows from the Presidents letter found on the MVCI website:

Hotel License Agreement
Since DSV opened twenty years ago, DSV Owners have had access to various facilities at the JW Marriott Desert Springs Hotel, including access to the spa and the hotel pool. This access is contained in a license agreement with the hotel owner. For this access all Owners are charged a fee, included in the annual maintenance fees. Apart from these fees, DSV Owners and guests spend approximately $5 million annually in the hotel’s restaurants and other facilities.
This summer the Board received a notice from the hotel owner that it was cancelling the license agreement effective December 31, 2009. Without going into all of the details, after much prodding from the Board the hotel owner at first proposed a new license agreement, which among other things would have raised the license fee by 66%. The Board counter offered, based on Owner feedback received in a survey, but then the hotel owner changed course. The hotel owner indicated that they did not desire to have any license agreement with DSV. Instead, they stated that DSV Owners would be charged so-called “ala carte” fees based on each Owners’ actual use of the hotel facilities. For the past several weeks the Board has made every effort to engage in negotiations with the hotel owner, but they appear unwilling to negotiate in a serious way - for instance they have insisted that DSV indemnify the hotel if any Owner or guest is injured by their negligence, while both significantly increasing the license fee and limiting to six the total number of spa visits allowed per unit week.
As a result, come January 1, 2010 there is not a license agreement with the hotel. Instead “ala carte” pricing will be charged each time Owners and guests use the spa and other hotel facilities, such as the pools, tennis courts and exercise facility. Obviously each Owner will need to decide if this new pricing policy represents something of value. For their part, the hotel owner believes that they will earn much more money through their “ala carte” pricing than through a license agreement. As a place holder only and because at the time that the Board was required to set the maintenance fees we were in the midst of attempted negotiations, next year’s maintenance fee does include money that was set aside for the recreational license costs. However, since we could not reach an agreement, that portion of the maintenance fee will be reallocated at the end of the fiscal year.
I deeply regret that we have not been able to extend the license arrangement with the hotel owner. In the meantime, hotel management, which is different than the hotel owner, has indicated it remains committed to offering DSV Owners and guests the best services possible. Given the significant amount of money that DSV Owners and guests spend annually at the hotel, the Board certainly expects nothing less.

I have spent mucho $$$ at the JW Marriott when staying in the villas.
That will end.

As mentioned by the previous poster...I would advise MVCI cancel the shuttle service and the cost of the full time employees associated with the shuttle. No need to spend a penny at the JW Marriott.

Sent to Joseph Lawence, President of the HOA

Thank you for the update on DSV 1 where I am an owner.

I am disappointed you could not come to an agreement for the use of the JW Marriott facilities.
Based on your explanation, it sounds like the hotel owner was not acting in good faith and
furthermore, may be in for a rude disappointment as to the possible revenues “a la carte”
pricing will provide. I say that knowing how much we spent at the hotel while staying in our villas.

I would suggest an explanation of the real need for the full time employees and vehicles associated with
the shuttle service might be in order. I feel no obligation to subsidize the use of the hotel restaurant’s
or other facilities with my maintenance fees.

Thank you for the time and effort you put into carrying out your responsibilities

I guess in the future both DSV I & DSV II will have the same options available (a la carte pricing) at the JW Marriott Hotel. I think the hotel owner was very short-sighted here and will not see as much revenue now as under the previous arrangement. In this economy he would have guaranteed income under the license agreement, now he has to hope owners use the amenities of the JW for $$ with each use.

How do the villas compare? Will the DSV II villas now be more popular because they are newer or larger?

Interesting development!

Chalucky can you send me Joe's address. I will also send him a letter. In fact I am sure he is disappointed also. I played tennis with him at the courts several months back. At that time he told me that he felt agreement would be reached.
This is such a disappointment. I can't believe that the use of the tennis courts is also gone. Also the use of the JW pools was a big attraction for my family.

I know DSV II also has free access to the courts. I wonder when their agreement comes up for renewal.

I agree with you that we should no longer be paying for the shuttle service and staff to shuttle over to the JW. I usually walk over anyway.

I wonder what the a la carte menu will be? Probably the same as they charge guests at the hotel.

Happy New Year......I just put my week in March up for rent...going to Maui instead...

I am very disappointed. I loved using the spa, but if I have to pay "a la carte" for spa services, then I will be going to a different spa. There are several spas to choose from in the greater Palm Springs area. After reading how the owner managed the situation, I think they have alienated their bread and butter customers. I don't understand their thinking in this difficult economy...especially for the travel industry.

I also agree that the shuttle should be eliminated. Why facilitate income to the hotel when they have treated the timeshares so poorly.

We may try Shadow Ridge now.

How do DSV I and II compare ...

LAX Mom said:

I guess in the future both DSV I & DSV II will have the same options available (a la carte pricing) at the JW Marriott Hotel. I think the hotel owner was very short-sighted here and will not see as much revenue now as under the previous arrangement. In this economy he would have guaranteed income under the license agreement, now he has to hope owners use the amenities of the JW for $$ with each use.

How do the villas compare? Will the DSV II villas now be more popular because they are newer or larger?

Interesting development!

Click to expand...

DSV-1 is a lot larger than DSV-2, has two jacuzzi tubs instead of one, has fireplace. It's true DSV-2 units are newer; but now both have been renovated/upgraded this past year so age has relatively no bearing at this time. I also think DSV-1 has larger patios and a little closer to the Lobby, store, activity center, etc.

Shuttle

cp73 said:

Chalucky can you send me Joe's address. I will also send him a letter. In fact I am sure he is disappointed also. I played tennis with him at the courts several months back. At that time he told me that he felt agreement would be reached.
This is such a disappointment. I can't believe that the use of the tennis courts is also gone. Also the use of the JW pools was a big attraction for my family.

I know DSV II also has free access to the courts. I wonder when their agreement comes up for renewal.

I agree with you that we should no longer be paying for the shuttle service and staff to shuttle over to the JW. I usually walk over anyway.

I wonder what the a la carte menu will be? Probably the same as they charge guests at the hotel.

Happy New Year......I just put my week in March up for rent...going to Maui instead...

Click to expand...

Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'. We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.

Cathyb said:

Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'. We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.

Click to expand...

Why visit or do business with the JW, in light of their disingenuous business tactics and decision that will undoubtedly depreciate the value and enjoyment of Villas 1?

In order to make a point, we as owners need solidarity, not defectors.

My suggestion: discontinue shuttle service between the villas and JW immediately. If the villas does that, I wouldn't put it past the JW to begin operating their own shuttle service between the hotel and villas (like vultures). The villas should deny the JW access to the villas.

CHALUCKY: thank you for posting the statement by the HOA. I would have never thought of checking the Marriott website.

It appears that the HOA worked in good faith to sustain the agreement. I just wish they were more communicative about what was going on.

No word, though, on how DSV intends to accommodate the resulting new demand for the fitness center in the club house. Neither the fitness center in the club house or jasmine court are great, and they fall way short on the equipment that the fitness center at the hotel includes.

Tennis

I too am very disappointed in Marriott's decision. Does anybody know if tennis is also gone?

Back in November

We stayed at DSV II over Thanksgiving.

After reading these boards, I was a bit concerned that we would be "missing out" since we didn't have access to the JW amenities that our neighbors in phase I had.

We did try to book a couple of spa sessions at the JW. We tried to schedule them back to back for my wife and I and asked if we could trade off watching our kids at the JW pool only during the time the other was in the spa. They told us no... that one would have to ride the shuttle back to the villas and switch off there. With the travel time back and forth between the villas for each of us, we were looking at nearly four hours. It just became too inconvenient and we saved the spa money.

While our "no" answer certainly didn't ruin our experience, it admittedly was in the back of our minds when we decided not to eat at one of the JW restaurants that week (wasn't the only factor, but did play into the decision).

We did ride the shuttle over one evening and walked around.

We had a fantastic week of vacation. And in all honesty, our week would have been just as fantastic without our shuttle ride over to the hotel.

I would urge the Villas to save the shuttle and personnel expense. If the hotel wants to pay a shuttle to ferry potential customers, by all means, open the gate and let the hotel's shuttle roll in. At this point, the JW is no different from any other business in town. The timeshares don't "shuttle" to Ralph's or any other Palm Desert business, right?


From a business stand point, I simply don't understand the mentality of some of these hotel owners.

We own at Myrtle Beach and the Marriott Hotel there is literally feet away from the timeshares. I remember the first year the timeshares opened and the timeshare managers were very clear we were not to walk over there and use the pools (some of ours were still under construction). However, they said we could go over there and pay for spa treatments or eat at the restaurants. Eventually, the hotel built a fence to block the timeshare owners from going over to the hotel pool (again, I'm not kidding the timeshares are only feet away from the hotel pools). The first couple of years, the hotel could have made some money off of timeshare users because the hotel has a poolside restaurant/bar (the timeshares have their own now). Ironically, now the timeshares have to police against hotel guests from coming over to our nicer pool areas.

A few years back, we went to Canyon Ridge in Phoenix. We rode the shuttle over to the JW pool and spent more time over there than we had planned. We also spent money at the hotel poolside restaurant. We had such a pleasant experience, we went back to the hotel for dinner one night.

All of this discussion makes me nervous about Lakeshore Reserve in Orlando. I need to pull out my documents. If I'm not mistaken, the right of usage of the JW pools is written into the documents. But I don't remember if there is an expiration date on usage???

It is interesting that the letter states that hotel management is different than the hotel owner. Therefore, this does not appear to be driven by Marriott. Hopefully, this situation will not expand to other Marriott timeshares with access to hotel/resort facilities.

SWICE: You raise an interesting point about Lake Shore Reserve and any other Marriott timeshare that abuts a Marriott hotel.

I'm beginning to appreciate something that I had not before. When we purchased our first Marriott timeshare a long time ago, we were led to believe two things: (1) trust us, we're the Marriott that you've done business with and come to trust for years, and (2) as it relates to the abutting hotel(s), that we were doing business with the Marriott brand (not the hotel's owners, who we incorrectly thought was Marriott).

Both have since proven false. It is becoming increasingly apparent that decisions are not made by Marriott about the operations of the hotel, but the hotel's owners, and the owner's seem to rule the roost no matter what name is on the sign over the front door.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Marriott timeshare people are selling Lake Shore Reserve with the expectation that timeshare owners have access to the hotel. I suspect that written deep down in the documents that most people don't read is a provision that says that that relationship can come to an end with notice (as is the case at DSVI).

Marriott doesn't own Desert Springs hotel, just manages it

Marriott is just the managing company for most of the Marriott hotels. They own maybe 5% of the hotels carrying the Marriott name. This is the same for most chains. The owner of the actual property is under no obligation to extend courtesy to Time Share owners. I imagine many owners do not want Time Share owners who often travel with extended families using the hotel resources. I most certainly can see that in the Palm Desert area.

Happens all the time. If the owner of the Desert Springs Marriott is offered a better cut from, for instance, Starwood, they would change management names in an instant.

A local hotel here in my area, Sanibel Harbor Resort and Spa has been managed by a string of companies. This year it is managed by Marriott, finally giving Marriott a higher profile in Lee County, Florida.

HOA Pres contact

Mail sent to Joseph Lawrence is directed by MVCI site to go c/o the Resort Manager:

susan.belleville@vacationclub.com

She is on vacation so you will get an auto-response.

Perhaps someone has a direct email, but it isn't posted anywhere as far as I can see.

Cathyb said:

Although I am very disappointed in the Spa decision, I would hope they continue the shuttle for 'us old folks'. We do walk to the hotel during the day, but evenings after dinner it is nice to catch a ride back to the unit.

Click to expand...

With all due respect, I think any concerted attempt to convince the hotel owner of our displeasure begins with hitting him where it hurts. There is, without a doubt, serious revenues generated by visiting owners, exchangers, and their guests. My thought is that if a villa guest really wants to use the resturant at the JW, he should demand that his parking ticket should be validated.....(remember when there was free parking at the hotel?)

Furthermore, the shuttles are expensive to operate in terms of manpower & there are vehicles to maintain. If the hotel owner wants to bring guests over for the privelege of paying for a la carte services....well, let him pay for the shuttle to do it. I for one will not go to the JW to eat if I can't use the pools & fitness club so it's a huge waste of my maintenance fees to maintain the shuttle fleet.

Finally, while Starwood does so many things worse than Marriott....in this case there is never a similar issue.

I have stayed at Westin TS's in Maui and Mission Hills and Timeshare users are never charged for the "privelege" of using their regular facilities (ie. health club, and pools)....the spa is a different and understandable exception, but remember that DSV 1 were paying separately for the privelege in our MF's.

Are you sure? When we stayed at Westin Maui Timeshare last year, we were told that we couldn't use Westin hotel pool.
I am an owner at Marriott Canyon Villas. This new dvelopment worries me that JW Desert Ridge might also do something similar to us.

Wow -- major disappointment. We're still in escrow on DSV I and we paid a slight premium compared to the other two area Marriotts in the area due to the access to the hotel pools and spa (I've got three kids, so the pools were a big draw). I may have to reconsider now and I have to think it will have some impact on resale and maybe trading value if it stands as is today.

Paul

LisaH,
Hopefully, since this is a problem with the hotel owners, not Marriott, similar situations will not necessarily develop at other resorts. One difference with Canyon Villas is that the spa access already requires a fee (except for Platinum MR), so the situation is a little different.

I recently learned that the Palms resort access to the Marriott Orlando World Center resort facilities was extended for 20 yr. in 2004.

Educated Consumer

EducatedConsumer said:

Why visit or do business with the JW, in light of their disingenuous business tactics and decision that will undoubtedly depreciate the value and enjoyment of Villas 1?

In order to make a point, we as owners need solidarity, not defectors.

My suggestion: discontinue shuttle service between the villas and JW immediately. If the villas does that, I wouldn't put it past the JW to begin operating their own shuttle service between the hotel and villas (like vultures). The villas should deny the JW access to the villas.

CHALUCKY: thank you for posting the statement by the HOA. I would have never thought of checking the Marriott website.

It appears that the HOA worked in good faith to sustain the agreement. I just wish they were more communicative about what was going on.

No word, though, on how DSV intends to accommodate the resulting new demand for the fitness center in the club house. Neither the fitness center in the club house or jasmine court are great, and they fall way short on the equipment that the fitness center at the hotel includes.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't happen to agree with you and truly resent being called a defector just because I don't agree with your ideas! :annoyed: We enjoy the Japanese Restaurant and will continue to eat there, arriving by their free boat. We also enjoy looking in their high end stores. You need to take five deep breaths and relax a little.

Marriott Hotel - Palm Desert

The more I hear about closing the fitness center at the spa and not being willing to renegotiate our use of the spa and other hotel facilities, the more I wonder if the hotel owners are in desperate financial shape due to the recession. I would not be surprised if they declared bankruptcy and closed the hotel although I hope it doesn't happen.