Asia Pacific sales info - Points in US later than June 2010

I just took the tour at Phuket Beach Club.

It was well worth our time as we got two tickets for a great Sea Canoe tour through cves into the lagoons of limestone islands. Great tour and usually priced at $110 per person.

No pressure at all, just tried to sell just 10,000 points "to extend your weeks stay by 3 days as some airline fly in on Wednesday" when I said "no".

More info on Asia Pacific Club below.

This is just what the quite (but not fully, he said II will restrict trading into a bigger unit, better season shortly) honest boss of the sales team Patrick told me about points system:


Points system will be rolled out in Europe in June 2010 as Europe has the same problem as Asia: Just too few Marriott timeshare resorts.

So they will add the option to use your Timesahre points (completely new currency independent from Marriott Rewards Points) at a selection of Hotels troughoutt Europe (it is 22 in Asia), mainly in big cities but also few beach locations.

In Asia you could for example get from the points of your two bedroom Platinum Phuket Beach club:

8 nights at the Ritz Carlton Millenia Singapore (hotel room)
10 days Rennaisance Koh Samui Resort & Spa (hotel room)
9 days Ayana Resort & Spa , Bali (hotel room or 4 days Ocean view Suite
cheapest is Courtyard Beijing: 16 days hotel room

5 nights in a two bedroom villa at Marriott Villade dIle de France (Paris Disneyland) or Marbella Beach Club (the two Europen associated resorts)

In Asia it costs $5,000 to put a week you own into the points system (as it gives so many more options!)

If you buy at least 30,000 points you can convert your weeks for free (I did not ask about multiple weeks or developer vs. resale weeks. He did not seem to know that I onw multiple resale weeks).

Points will come to the US later than June 2010.

Some more info about Asia Pacific points:

Initial cost is $1.25 per point for non-Marriott owners, $1.05 if you are a marriott owner (whereever in the world).

Maintenance fee is currently $0,0278 per Point.

2 Bedrrom Platinum at Phuket Beach Club (and other Thailand destinations Mai kao beach Club around the corner and The Empire Place, Bangkok) is 32,700 Points, costs $34,335 for owners and MF of $909.

Points are 50 year term and you can save them for one year and borrow from the next year (so up to 3 times your points in a given year if you save and borrow).

They tried to sell round number of points like 30,000 or 33,000 so always something left over or missing...

Club Resorts:

Ko´Olina, Hawai
Waiohai Beach Club, Hawai
Phuket Beach Club, Phuket
Mai Khao Beach Club; Phuket
MVCI at the Empire Place, Bangkok
Grand Chateau, Las Vegas
Macao to open soon.

These points are enough for 2 Bedroom anywhere in Thailand (Phuket Beach, Mai Kao, Empire Place Bangkok).

There are just 3 Platinum Plus weeks (Christmas, New Year and January 23) at 60,300 points.

Gold are only 13 Monsoon weeks in June, July, September, October at 20,700 points.

32,100 points take you to a 1 BR Platinum at Ko Olina
24,900 1 BR Plat Grand Chateau, LAs Vegas
48,700 2 BR Plat Waohai

Reservations at 6 Vacation Clubs (plus Macao which will open soon) and 22 Club Connections (Hotels with examples above) are for free.

Interval works through Marriott at the standard fees.

There is a table of points you need to use depending on unit size and Travel Demand Index:

LOW (TDI 50 to 80), MODERATE (TDI 80 to 120), HIGH (TDI 120 to 150).

Low/Moderate/High
Studio
10,000/15,000/27,500

1 Bedroom
15,000/23,000/42,500

2 Bedroom
23,000/32,500/60,000

3 Bedroom
32,500/45,000/85,000

Flexchange: 10,000 points independent from size and season (first thing that I see value in...)

Now their new sales pitch to make us decide immediately:

Next options are only available if we decide today. If we come back later only CLub Resorts, Club Connections (22 hotels) and II are included, NO Reward points conversion and no Express breaks.

I have that in writing in the brochure they gave us!

You can convert to Marriott Reward points at a conversion tate of 3 rewards points per Club Point, 2 BR Phuket gives 98,100 Rewards Points at a fee of $129 ($1,038 incl. maintenence fee) which is no real value if you consider what you pay upfront and what you can buy points for directly from Marriott.

Express breaks: You can buy more points for 1-3 days stay at just Club Resorts for the price of just maintenance fee of 2,78 cents per points. I did not really get if this is restricted/limited. Must be, otherwise it makes no sense to spend much upfront if you could buy unlimited boints annually at just MF.

Flexible Finance offered only if we decide today.

If we pay off loan after 90 days, we will get waived 10% of the loan amount (seems like they still have problems getting financing together)

Friendshare program (free 3 days stay for our friends and some points for us if they buy) only available if we decide today.


He offered 10,000 additional points for free for one year if we bought 10,000 points (and said he is just doing this as we will like the additional points and come back to him later to buy more).

The price will get fixed for 12 months if you decide to buy more points.

As I have read about $1.25 per points starting in 2008 it is my feeling that it has become cheaper rather than more expensive since then.

They did not offer lower price if we buy more (like I read on previous threads)

All in all:

The new sales pitch is cool: Marriott Rewards conversion and buy more points at MF only if you decide today.

Pro:

22 Club Connection hotels are cheaper than using standard Rewards Points conversion, (but expensive for Paris and Marbella Resorts)

10.000 points (purchase $10,500, MF $278) for Flexchangge in II is little better than a lockoff elsewhere if you use Flexchange often.


Con:

I can not imagine anyone paying $5,000 for converting their weeks.

No trading up in II anymore (outside Flexchange) as fixed points values table.

Only 6 resorts in Asia pacific Club, no internal exchange to US resorts (besides 2 Hawaii and Las Vegas) and Europe (just 2 through Club Connections at a miserable exchange rate.

Feels expensive to buy and high MF for Phuket (what where their weeks system MFs?)


If that is really the system they will implement in Europe and later in the US, I think not too much will change for existing owners as noone will join for $5,000 or buy many points to join with his weeks for free...

Thank you for such a comprehensive post on the Asia club system. It will be interesting to see if a version of this is rolled out in Europe as promised by the sales rep. (Then on to the US.) I agree that $5000.00 is a lot of money to convert an existing week to the point system. Especially with the unbelievable low price of resale weeks. I think their timing is really bad.

Doesn't seem all that interesting to me. $35,000 buy in for 7 weeks I own is a little on the steep side.

jimf41 said:

Doesn't seem all that interesting to me. $35,000 buy in for 7 weeks I own is a little on the steep side.

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If it's like any of the others out there, one fee would converty all your weeks. If they think $5,000 is a reasonable fee to convert a deeded week into what sounds a lot like a trust ownership, they're out of their mind as far as I'm concerned.

However, the key is where they say that Europe suffers the same problem as Asia. That is there isn't enough resorts, so the points can be used for hotel stays. This isn't a problem in the U.S. and I don't think that sales tactic will work well for them.

Time will tell. I'm not holding my breath on any changes to the US product.

As an owner and quite frequent guest of the Phuket Beach Club just few additions:

The sales agent quoted is indeed one of the more honest guys within the system. We know him since the beginning of the sales at Phuket and spend quite a few hours talking to him about the system during the last years. He was promoted two years ago and usually does not do tours anymore.

When they first started sales for the AP-Points Programm 3 years ago the price per point was less than 1 $ (something around 0,80 $) and there was a discount for buying larger quantities of points, too.

Phuket Maintenance Fees for 2010 in the weeks system were 27,088 THB (820USD) per unit (fyi: it was less than 600 USD until 2007). Given the current MF in the AP point system it is therefore "cheaper" to own Gold points than a Gold week. Looking at Plat. season things change and week owners have a slight advantage. My personal guess is that Marriott will increase the MF for the week system faster than those within the point system.

I am with abdibile about the value of the Flexchange option for 10,000 points per week. As of now it is quite easy to get into the Phuket Beach Club for those 10,000 points. We know other owners who quite happily use their 30,000 points to stay 3 weeks in the resort; in Platinum season, mind you. Naturally that spin is usually used within the sales tours. They do however not mention that one does have a great chance snatching additional weeks via II Getaways also.

Outside of Flexchange my personal opinion is that the value of the AP point programm is very, very low if you are mainly interested in week-long vacations and have no interest in splitting up your points into shorter stays. Beeing an "beancounter" when it comes to purchase decisions for a TS i simply cannot see to reach the break-even within the AP points system within a reasonable timeframe, if at all.

Main reasons for that are that you cannot add value by trading up via Interval and that the corresponding cash (!) rates at the other resorts/hotel are usually not high enough to make trading into those worthwile. If you use "other instruments" and not simply cash to get into some of those resorts the AP points programm does not look enticing at all quickly.

(btw: Guess what the cash rate at the new MVCI Mai Khao Beach towers they are selling now was in late 2009 (=Plat. Season) ? An astonishing 39 USD for a 2 BDR per night. No one knows if that offer will be available again, however, i would certainly not be a happy vacationer if had bought that unit for big bucks a year ago and see rates like that.)

In regard to the "Express Breaks": I did ask for those feature quite often but the answers i got until now where always quite vague. My guess is that this feature is indeed one of the "loopholes" in the point system. AFAIK there is no restriction how many Express Breaks you buy in a given year but they are based on availability; cannot be booked that far out (=Flexchange like) and one can only book them in intervals of 1-3 days. So a family who is not able to do their vacation planing on short notice might not be able to use that feature too often.

While i do understand that exchanging a week into MR points might make sense for some owners to reach those travel package awards I have never done it (being able to collect FFP miles and MR points by other means). Looking at that feature within the AP program, again not enticiing at all. AFAIK as i know the current exchange rate of 1 MVCI point = 3 MR points is only fixed until a given year (2020 ?). After that they are able to change the exchange rate; guess in which direction. So while the fixed point amount conversation within the "traditional" week system is already considered "unfair" by some owners with high MF, it seems that Marriott is not going to enhance that programm in a point based system.

Honestly, even if i don´t see much benefit of the AP points programm at all i still tried to buy into it several times!

However, until now, they simply do not want to sell me 3,400 points so that i am able to save those points for 3 years, use them via Flexchange once and check-out the Express-Break feature in the meanwhile...

Cheers

Starbucks

Well, all I can say is, if Marriott rolls this same style program out in the U.S., I predict it to flop with a mighty sound heard round the timeshare industry. Marriott is not a stranger to having something flop. All one needs to do is look at Marriott's family style Horizon's brand to see they can/do make mistakes.

From what is written here about the AP-points program, I know that I'll have no interest in joining it and, if that's all I'd ever be able to buy direct through Marriott in the future, then I'll be shopping for additional weeks via resale to keep it within the weeks system.

That's what I found so disturbing about the prospect of Marriott changing their system in the US. My guess is that the Asia Pacific program is a precursor and testing ground of the bigger system. It seems to make sense that they would eventually have a singular, all encompassing system, not two distinct points systems.

Besides the cost and the loss of home resort priority, the loss of deeded ownership, the less than favorable exchange rates which I'm guessing will be the case for many resorts (similar to Phuket), and the MF issue makes the thought of such a program a practical and logistical nightmare.

I absolutely love the fact Marriott is coming up with new options! If i'm reading correctly, it seems they are truly integrating hotels and timeshares. It seems this integration will help lesson the anger people have about the number of Reward points they receive when they give up their timeshares.

For someone who loves to travel the world and go outside the use of their timeshare, this is very exciting!

Latravel said:

I absolutely love the fact Marriott is coming up with new options! If i'm reading correctly, it seems they are truly integrating hotels and timeshares. It seems this integration will help lesson the anger people have about the number of Reward points they receive when they give up their timeshares.

For someone who loves to travel the world and go outside the use of their timeshare, this is very exciting!

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Except, at least for the Asia Pacific program, the exchange for points appears to remain inadequate- and that's their "promotional" exchange rate- as Starbucks posted: "AFAIK as I know the current exchange rate of 1 MVCI point = 3 MR points is only fixed until a given year (2020 ?). After that they are able to change the exchange rate; guess in which direction. So while the fixed point amount conversation within the "traditional" week system is already considered "unfair" by some owners with high MF, it seems that Marriott is not going to enhance that program in a point based system."

I agree that IF Marriott was to offer a fairer and enhanced exchange program that it would be a really nice benefit and, at least I think, that it would be a great sales tool. If Marriott truly wants to distinguish developer sales, enhance this program so that it can realistically be marketed as a perk of direct sales. Make it valuable, and Marriott needn't do anything else in its new program or otherwise to distinguish developer and resale owners. Let use of the timeshare stay as it has always been; make the singular perk of direct purchases the valuable one it is touted as, and the product will sell itself.

I bought resale because the "perk" of exchanging for points, by the time I was considering a purchase, didn't appear to be a perk at all. The units were priced too high and the point redemption value too low, especially with escalating MF's and devaluations in the point redemption program. In timeshare sales escalating costs (both initial purchase price and MF's) and periodic reward point devaluations are really a given, but Marriott can control the reward point redemption. I, too, love international travel and would love flexibility; I would strongly consider an additional direct purchase IF I felt that my timeshare was being exchanged for a sum of points that reflected the value of the week I was giving up in exchange.

It looks like they are trying to remedy the problems you mention. Great approach by Marriott and one I did not anticipate. Though some here don't care for points, there are millions more who do and it appears Marriott is strengthening this part of the product as a selling tool. Great approach and i'll definitely be interested in learning more.

abdibile said:

In Asia it costs $5,000 to put a week you own into the points system (as it gives so many more options!)

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We only own 1 week but 5K is twice what we paid and with the MF as high as they are for Hawaii I am going to pass. And if it comes down to where we can not exchange with II it will go on the market for what ever I can get for it.

Latravel said:

It looks like they are trying to remedy the problems you mention. Great approach by Marriott and one I did not anticipate. Though some here don't care for points, there are millions more who do and it appears Marriott is strengthening this part of the product as a selling tool. Great approach and i'll definitely be interested in learning more.

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Heidi- I am confused- while I agree it would be great if they were actually remedying the point conversion rate (and- not to rehash the resale versus direct argument- but I agree that IF there were enough reward points allocated for a timeshare exchange it would change the scales, perhaps dramatically)- but their promotional conversion for a 2BR Plat. Phuket week is just under 100K points. Is that really an improvement? It is slightly better than buying the points from Marriott, and as MF's go up, it will likely be cheaper to buy the points directly in the near future. Now if instead of the 3:1 promotional ratio (rewards points:timeshare points) they were offering a 5:1 or something similar, it might be a very different story.

Maybe I am missing something- I just don't see that they are offering anything advantageous here.

I don't see where a $5000 price point wouldn't be untouchable by Marriott for a new points program. Many point conversions are very expensive. They figure if they were able to sell you once, they can sell you again, no matter what the price. They can spin the program any way they want, push the fear aspect, and even the buy today or it is gone tomorrow bit. You would be surprised how many people would shell out another $5K for a points program.

dioxide45 said:

I don't see where a $5000 price point wouldn't be untouchable by Marriott for a new points program. Many point conversions are very expensive. They figure if they were able to sell you once, they can sell you again, no matter what the price. They can spin the program any way they want, push the fear aspect, and even the buy today or it is gone tomorrow bit. You would be surprised how many people would shell out another $5K for a points program.

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I'd think in this economy it would be a VERY hard sell. Especially when many, many owners are paying >$1000 in MF's and seeing their units sell for way less than they bought them for, with some even less than the 5K. In probably many if not most cases, that 5K represents 25% or more of their original purchase price.

I'm not so sure people will blindly fork over 5K or multiples thereof, if they own multiple weeks. Especially if they look closely at what their exchange rate will be (again, IF it is akin to the Asia Pacific program).

Does anyone have any knowledge of how it has been received overseas?

m61376 said:

I'd think in this economy it would be a VERY hard sell. Especially when many, many owners are paying >$1000 in MF's and seeing their units sell for way less than they bought them for, with some even less than the 5K. In probably many if not most cases, that 5K represents 25% or more of their original purchase price.

I'm not so sure people will blindly fork over 5K or multiples thereof, if they own multiple weeks. Especially if they look closely at what their exchange rate will be (again, IF it is akin to the Asia Pacific program).

Does anyone have any knowledge of how it has been received overseas?

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I'm sure there will be some that fork over $5,000 but, I'll go along with the idea that it will be a hard sell to current owners. I'm not sure that current owners will be the target for a points based reservations program if they go with what the AP program appears to be.

If what I've read about the AP program is correct and, if it's a trust based ownership with no home resort, there's great incentive for Marriott to go that direction and not care whether current owners go along or not. The advantage will be to sell points based in the trust which means they can sell inventory in every resort in the trust whether or not the resort is popular enough to sell. Resorts they're having trouble selling, such as Crystal Shores (according to what I've read here) won't be an issue. They'll just sell points.

From that angle, all Marriott would be concerned with is the ability to sell and not so much with how current owners make reservations or think about the program. Sure current owners can join but, there may not be a lot of incentive to get current owners to convert if Marriott has plenty of developer inventory to provide availabel space for new points buyers. If there's little incentive to get all current owners to go along with the program, then there's little incentive to keep the price down.

In the end, this may strictly be an enhanced sales tool for Marriott to move all of it's invenory rather than a true owner enhancement.

IF what you say comes to fruition (and, perhaps sadly, your analysis may be right on) then what will basically be left is a fractured Marriott ownership- the old and the new. Current owners would probably keep plodding right along, with little access to any new resorts if/when they are developed and future owners would, in reality, have little access to current resorts except for the ones having a lot of developer inventory when/if the new program is put into place.

It will take a long time before there is enough prime new inventory to make it a really attractive program, but of course new buyers won't realize the limitations until after purchasing, so at least initially it is a great marketing strategy. Not so good for the long run though, imho.