What are the things you don't like about the new Marriott points program?

Someone else started a thread asking for posts about the positive things about the Marriott point system. I hate to be the negative one on TUG but in the interest of "fair and balanced" I thought I'd start another thread where we can list the terms of the new program we don't like.

1) No flexchange with the new Marriott points program

2) Marriott will be taking Marriott inventory from II to match requests placed by point owners. Doesn't seem fair to those of us who will continue to use II and will be trying to get some Marriott weeks. I guess this is how Marriott will obtain weeks without building new resorts. They'll grab Hawaii, ski weeks, summer beach weeks that are deposited with II and use them for inventory with this new system.

3) New program is expensive. Initial cost ($9.2 per point) and MF ($400 per 1,000) have gone up dramatically. Figure it out for the resort you own. Multipy the number of points required by 9.2 and that's how much you would need to purchase for a weeks stay. A week that requires 4,500 to book will cost you 41,400 points. The MF would be over $1,600 per year. This is a big jump over the current prices Marriott was asking just last week. We all know those MF and point requirements will jump in the next few years.

4) Can Marriott really deliver the inventory? Suppose someone signs up with the new points system then wants to book Ko'Olina or a Park City ski week. The Park City Marriotts are sold out, Marriott will only have inventory from owners who participate in the new points program or others who deposit a week with II. I'm not convinced Marriott can really deliver the nights/weeks new owners will want to book.

5) This new points system seems like a greedy attempt by Marriott to sell weeks at resorts that have been sold out for a long time. You know the salesmen will tempt people with all the options to stay at these wonderful Marriott resorts (many of which Marriott will actually have very little inventory). People will buy points thinking they can stay at Newport Coast or Hilton Head in the summer but will find it much more difficult than the sales reps have promised.

others??

1. Marriott's new program has the flexibility to allow you to check in any day of the week. Only problem is, it takes more points on the new program to check in on a Wed. They don't give me enough points on with the new pgm to check in and stay for a week.

2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.

lll1929 said:

2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.

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Are you sure? I thought you only had to pay a trade fee if you traded outside of the Marriott system. Marriott to Marriott trades were covered in the annual fee.

Marriott to Marriott is paid in the club fees. There is no extra charge.

1. I don't like that Marriott has not given me enough points to be able to reserve any week in my season.....This just doesn't sit well with me.

2. I don't like the fact that Marriott can increase the points needed to reserve days/week, at will.

3. I don't like that if I go to sell my week, it looks like I will not be turning over a deed, but rather a points package.

4. I don't like the fact that Marriott is not allowing existing members to purchase less than 1000 points...........If I wanted to book my home resort, the same week that I own, I would need an additional 350 points to do so. I don't want to spend the money on 1000 more points, and don't even have the option to purchase the 350 points that I would need.

5. I don't like that Marriott can raid II at will, in order to fill the request for points. Where does that leave week owners that do not convert?

6. I don't like that there is no home resort priority, and that points can actually book at my home resort before me, based on how many points they own.........I may only be able to get a shoulder week, from this point forward.


Those are just some that come to mind.

Janette said:

Marriott to Marriott is paid in the club fees. There is no extra charge.

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Are you sure? I thought only points trades are pre-paid. I think if you deposit a week with II and request a trade, any trade through II, you have to pay II's exchange fee.

Ray

lll1929 said:

2. If you pay the annual $165 fee and you choose to use your unit as you do today and trade thru II, you still have to pay the II trade fees.

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This is correct. You pay the annual $165 even if you decide to occupy or deposit your week with II. The II exchange fee (either internal or external) is on top of this.

I don't like that owners of Platinum week at most properties will never have the change again to trade it for a Platinum week at the most popular ones.

I don't like how low my Sabal Palms weeks have been valued and how low is their trading power

I don't like that my 3 Platinum (red) weeks don't reach the 6,499 threshold so many owners will be able to book 1 month in advance at my own resort

I don't like that II recently offered a promo to renew the membership, which I accepted, knowing that it would be included in the new Club Dues.

I don't like to sign for a program forever, with no way out, whose fine print restricts how I can vote at my home resort if the Marriott administration is questioned.

I don't like that Marriott makes profit with the spread between how many points gives you for your week and how many points is required to book that same week, and this is valid for the trade-for-MR points and for the new Exchange Program.

"...All reservations must be made by a designated Delegate. Exchange Company retains the right, to be exercised in Exchange Company’s reasonable discretion, to limit the number of Accommodations a Member may reserve for use by Family Members or Guests, regardless of the number of Exchange Points the Member has available for use..."

"...In limitation of any privileges afforded to Members pursuant to Sections III.E. and III.F. of these Exchange Procedures, the ability of Members to bank or borrow Exchange Points, including, without limitation, the number of Exchange Points that may be banked or borrowed at any time by Members and the number of banking and borrowing transactions that may occur for any given Use Year, may be limited by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Exchange Company also reserves the rights to suspend, terminate, or limit all banking and borrowing of Exchange Points at any time and to charge fees to Members for each banking or borrowing transaction conducted by the Members..."

"...Exchange Company, in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion may limit, condition, suspend, terminate, or charge a fee for transfers of Exchange Points...."

"...There is no guarantee that a Member will be able to use all of the Exchange Points in a Member’s Distribution each Use Year because the ability of a Member to use all of the Member’s Exchange Points in a given Use Year will depend on: (i) the Use Periods reserved by the Member, (ii) the Use Periods reserved by other Members, and (iii) the number of Exchange Points banked for use in the immediately following Use Year. Consequently, Exchange Points may remain in the Member’s Distribution at the end of a given Use Year which are insufficient to reserve any Use Period and, thus, the Member will not be able to use such Exchange Points, and will not be permitted to carry over the unused, unbanked Exchange Points to the next Use Year’s Distribution...."

"...Exchange Company, in its sole and absolute discretion, is entitled to amend these Exchange Procedures to modify or establish additional cancellation policies and charge cancellation fees from time to time..."

I do see alot of "exchange company can charge a fee" in their document.

mjkkb2 said:

"...All reservations must be made by a designated Delegate. Exchange Company retains the right, to be exercised in Exchange Company’s reasonable discretion, to limit the number of Accommodations a Member may reserve for use by Family Members or Guests, regardless of the number of Exchange Points the Member has available for use..."

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This is a condition of II's exchange system as well, at least with respect to Getaway purchases.

I though of another one:

Several of us have obtained AWESOME Marriott to Marriott exchanges through II. With the new system, there is NO such thing as an AWESOME trade!!!

Example, I traded my 1bdrm Aruba Ocean Club for a 3 bdrm Aruba Surf Club.

mjkkb2 said:

"...There is no guarantee that a Member will be able to use all of the Exchange Points in a Member’s Distribution each Use Year because the ability of a Member to use all of the Member’s Exchange Points in a given Use Year will depend on: (i) the Use Periods reserved by the Member, (ii) the Use Periods reserved by other Members, and (iii) the number of Exchange Points banked for use in the immediately following Use Year. Consequently, Exchange Points may remain in the Member’s Distribution at the end of a given Use Year which are insufficient to reserve any Use Period and, thus, the Member will not be able to use such Exchange Points, and will not be permitted to carry over the unused, unbanked Exchange Points to the next Use Year’s Distribution...."

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mjkkb2 said:

"...Exchange Company, in its sole and absolute discretion, is entitled to amend these Exchange Procedures to modify or establish additional cancellation policies and charge cancellation fees from time to time..."

I do see alot of "exchange company can charge a fee" in their document.

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These (as well as other items related to fees) are conditions of the existing Weeks governing docs with MVCI.

mjkkb2 said:

"...Exchange Company, in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion may limit, condition, suspend, terminate, or charge a fee for transfers of Exchange Points...."

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mjkkb2 said:

"...In limitation of any privileges afforded to Members pursuant to Sections III.E. and III.F. of these Exchange Procedures, the ability of Members to bank or borrow Exchange Points, including, without limitation, the number of Exchange Points that may be banked or borrowed at any time by Members and the number of banking and borrowing transactions that may occur for any given Use Year, may be limited by Exchange Company in its sole and absolute discretion. Exchange Company also reserves the rights to suspend, terminate, or limit all banking and borrowing of Exchange Points at any time and to charge fees to Members for each banking or borrowing transaction conducted by the Members..."

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Points are a new to Marriott so there are no similar existing conditions in the governing docs with MVCI, but these are found in other existing points systems - DVC is one I'm aware of.

Now THOSE are some scary limitations found in the contract!! Thanks for quoting all of those - now we'll REALLY stay away.

Oh, some of my negatives...my Platinum Plus allocation of points will ONLY be enough to reserve the LOWEST valued weeks in the Platinum season at my resort.

Other points systems seem to play fair with allocation vs. reservations. Not so for Marriott pretty much for everyone.

The very top tier will be allowed to reserve in a "swiss cheese" manner - 1 night at a time before anyone else can reserve in blocks of 7 or more days.
Think what that will do to summer and ski weeks that are driving distance!!!

Marriott can change everything about this program at will, but you are stuck with your current points allocation.

Future resale purchases can't buy in and will probably be assimilated by Marriott through ROFR if it is a valuable deed.

No future home resort advantage if you wish to buy more points (can't imagine doing this under the new plan) and noone on various phone calls shared here seems to know what happens if you wish to sell points!!

Sales/phone staff seems very confused. So how can we feel confident about a purchase...

scrapngen said:

The very top tier will be allowed to reserve in a "swiss cheese" manner - 1 night at a time before anyone else can reserve in blocks of 7 or more days.
Think what that will do to summer and ski weeks that are driving distance!!!

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This has the potential to be a huge nightmare! They sell lots of point to new members who are assured they can use these points at sold-out resorts. "yes you can use your points to stay at park city in ski season, hilton head during the summer......"

Honestly, I know points systems can work and be a viable option for developers and buyers. However, I think the basic problem here is that Marriott is trying to combine two programs. They've been selling timeshare weeks for 25 (?) years. Most of their popular resorts have already sold out. So they decide to try a points system (eliminates the need to build new resorts, they can just keep selling those popular weeks in the way of points). In combining an established weeks program with a points program they have made a huge mess.

There needs to be a way to get this message out beyond TUG (not that TUG isn't great) but a viral campaign somehow.

LAX Mom said:

4) Can Marriott really deliver the inventory? Suppose someone signs up with the new points system then wants to book Ko'Olina or a Park City ski week. The Park City Marriotts are sold out, Marriott will only have inventory from owners who participate in the new points program or others who deposit a week with II. I'm not convinced Marriott can really deliver the nights/weeks new owners will want to book.

5) This new points system seems like a greedy attempt by Marriott to sell weeks at resorts that have been sold out for a long time. You know the salesmen will tempt people with all the options to stay at these wonderful Marriott resorts (many of which Marriott will actually have very little inventory). People will buy points thinking they can stay at Newport Coast or Hilton Head in the summer but will find it much more difficult than the sales reps have promised.

others??

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These two reason are IMHO the biggest negatives of this system. And are the reason I (as a single week Marriott TS owner) will not be joining this system.

2) Marriott will be taking Marriott inventory from II to match requests placed by point owners. Doesn't seem fair to those of us who will continue to use II and will be trying to get some Marriott weeks. I guess this is how Marriott will obtain weeks without building new resorts. They'll grab Hawaii, ski weeks, summer beach weeks that are deposited with II and use them for inventory with this new system.

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Is this true??

I thought that rather than taking inventory from II ( deposited by owners) that Marriott simply would no longer be depositing un-sold inventory into II any longer.

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Slakk said:

I don't like that I have a written confirmation giving me one amount of points and now MVC is trying to take almost 1800 away from me AFTER I enrolled.

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Why are they trying to take them away from you?

So if I understand this correctly (which is a big if), Marriott can take Marriott inventory from II whenever they want? So if a non-Marriott owner has a pending request with II and the inventory becomes available, Marriott could take this week to fullfill a points request first?
I have been able to exchange my home week for a Marriott week a couple of times, which I view as a great value with II. Not sure how great of a value II becomes for people if the likliehood of getting Marriott weeks decreases dramatically. My understanding is RCI has more inventory (maybe just lesser quality sometimes).

Frisbeeace said:

I don't like that II recently offered a promo to renew the membership, which I accepted, knowing that it would be included in the new Club Dues.

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I thought if you had a multi-year agreement with RCI or II and cancelled, you could get your unused portion of your fees refunded.