Questions re: FS Aviara Gold Week Usage

I have been unable to find a sticky or a good summary of the FS system. If someone knows of one here on TUG (or elsewhere), please point me in that direction.

We've owned a Hyatt timeshare for about a year now and are not really in the market for another one. We are however tempted by resale prices on FS Aviara gold weeks.

To give you all an idea of our needs/likes: we love excellent service and quiet, relaxing places. We have zero need for tons of space (studio or 1BR is fine). Live in LA, so can readily drive to Aviara. Love to travel to new places and don't have tons of spare time, but are only 6 years away from getting another 3 weeks vacation time. Do have a work schedule that gives us long (Fri-Mon) weekends every-other-week.

Since we typically do not need a 2BR unit, would frequently be interested in splitting our unit and using 1BR and studio seperately. Is there a fee or any catch to doing this?

When you purchase, are all gold weeks "floating" weeks? Do you purchase a specific unit?

I would imagine it would be rare for a platinum season week to be available, but if it were, could a gold owner book it? How do owners book (telephone, website, both)? Is there a waitlist procedure?

We might sometimes prefer a long weekend at Aviara over a full week-- is it possible to split a week in the FS system? If so, how does that work? Could we "legally" use a weekend stay and then rent out the mid-week stay if we wanted?

We have also read that pets are allowed at Aviara for owners- is this still true?

Now I totally get that one's best use of a FS Aviara ownership is to use it at Aviara, but I'd like to understand what our exchange options would be.

Understanding that any internal exchanges will basically be done with FS Troon North- how easy are such exchanges? Is there an exchange fee? What is gold season at Troon? Can one exchange into Platinum season if available?

If one requests an exchange with one of the FS fractionals, I have read that there is no better than a 10% chance you will get it. Can you make an exchange request for one of these and still keep control of your Aviara usage while your request is pending? Is there an exchange or per-night fee for a successful exchange?

I would imagine that II exchanges are pretty rewarding? Say we used the 1BR side and deposited the studio- could we uptrade to a better season and a bigger unit?

Is there any collective wisdom on using FS Aviara for some of the tougher private trades (through TUG exchange, for example)? Things like Westin St. John, Harborside, London, New York, etc?

And finally, how hard is it to get rid of a FS ownership should you no longer want it? Say if you were perfectly willing to give it away or sell for a few thousand dollars? Our biggest hesitation is in taking on the MF, not being able to get full use out of the system and then being stuck and unable to unload it. (Although there would be worse things to get stuck with.)

H

Hi Heath,

You've asked a lot of really good questions. I'll try to provide at least a few answers.

Four Seasons offers a fantastic resort experience. It's the cream of the crop in the timeshare world. I love staying at the resorts. However, easy exchanging is NOT a hallmark of Four Seasons. Here are a few points to consider with Four Seasons:

1) You cannot use the internal Four Seasons exchange system unless you purchase from an approved reseller or directly from Four Seasons. It's not even an option.

2) Basically, with the exception of exchanging between Aviara and Scottsdale, you cannot count on EVER getting ANY internal Four Seasons exchange. It could happen, but it probably won't. Don't plan on it.

3) You can keep your reservation at your home resort while you attempt an exchange through the Four Seasons system. In fact, you can just plan on using your home reservation when your exchange doesn't come through.

4) Four Seasons weeks have good trade power in II from what I have seen/heard/been told, but I think exchanging into other resorts is usually a bad value. I can see any high end sighting through II that is reported on TUG after it is out of the internal preference period of other chains. However, there are much cheaper weeks that trade just as well in II. Four Seasons doesn't give you any supreme advantage. You cannot request an exchange into a larger unit than the one you are giving up. However, if you find a larger unit online or you only request resorts with larger units, then you may be confirmed into something larger.

5) Direct trades should be possible. However, just keep in mind that most people are not very flexible and always want something more than what they are giving up. If you're willing to trade your Aviara week for a week in Orlando with 1/3 the maintenance fees, you'll have no trouble at all.

6) You can split your week for home resort usage into a 3 night stay and a 4 night stay. Only one weekend can be used, however. Or you can split your week into the studio and 1 bedroom sides and use them for different weeks. There is a small fee for using the lockoff feature.

7) Four Seasons weeks can definitely be resold/given away, however, the prices have absolutely collapsed since Hyatt took over management of the hotel. It's not a factor of the timeshare resort having changed as it hasn't. It is still a Four Seasons and is still awesome. Rather, it is the perception that things have changed for the worse that has caused this. Four Seasons Aviara has a major PR problem.

8) Owners may bring their dogs. There is an approximately $195 pet fee (this fee changes slightly from time to time and depending on what size villa you occupy). You will be located in a ground floor villa when staying with pets.

9) Four Seasons offers a wonderful week in a very luxurious environment. However, it is too expensive and too inflexible to use for weekend getaways in my opinion. You can't just call up and secure a weekend using cheap bonus time, for example. It is not set up that way. There is no bonus time and nothing is cheap. (Grand Pacific Resorts, which has numerous locations in Carlsbad, offers a lot more in terms of options than Four Seasons.)

10) You can't expect any new resorts to be able to exchange into. You can't expect any additional flexibility or new program enhancements. (This may be a good thing with what some Marriott owners are going through.) Four Seasons is not dedicated to growing their timeshare system...quite the opposite. What you see is what you get, and you can't ever expect anything more.

11) You book your week over the telephone. There is no website access. The hours of owner services are Monday through Friday, 8 am to 5 pm Pacific Time. You can only book a week during these hours. If you own gold, you cannot book platinum even if it is available. You would have to attempt an exchange either internally or through II or some other means.

12) All gold weeks are floating and you do not own the rights to any particular villa other than for deeding purposes.

13) The gold season in Scottsdale includes weeks 22 - 27 and 36 - 49. You can use your gold Aviara week to request an exchange into a platinum week in Scottsdale. It's hard to get the truly prime weeks.

14) Reserving your home week at Aviara requires advance planning. As a single week owner, you can book 1 year in advance. Holiday, spring break, early June, and other popular weeks during the Aviara gold season go fast. Be prepared to be on the telephone at 8 am exactly one year before your desired check in date.

Summary: I love Four Seasons, but you need to have realistic expectations going in or you could be sorely disappointed.

Steve

Steve said:

...1) You cannot use the internal Four Seasons exchange system unless you purchase from an approved reseller or directly from Four Seasons. It's not even an option...

...6) You can split your week for home resort usage into a 3 night stay and a 4 night stay. Only one weekend can be used, however. Or you can split your week into the studio and 1 bedroom sides and use them for different weeks. There is a small fee for using the lockoff feature...

...11)...There is ...no waitlist.

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We would not be buying from FS and probably not an approved reseller (depending on price). So would we be unable to exchange with Troon as well as fractionals?

Can you both split your weeks and lock-off your weeks? In this example, we'd use 1BR weekend and studio weekend and rent the corresponding mid-weeks to recoup some MF. I don't know if we'd want to bother with the hassle, but just trying to learn what is possible until the larger amount of vacation time becomes available down the road.

If there is no waitlist, what do you do if your desired week is unavailable- just keep calling?

Thanks,
H

heathpack said:

We would not be buying from FS and probably not an approved reseller (depending on price). So would we be unable to exchange with Troon as well as fractionals?

Can you both split your weeks and lock-off your weeks? In this example, we'd use 1BR weekend and studio weekend and rent the corresponding mid-weeks to recoup some MF. I don't know if we'd want to bother with the hassle, but just trying to learn what is possible until the larger amount of vacation time becomes available down the road.

If there is no waitlist, what do you do if your desired week is unavailable- just keep calling?

Thanks,
H

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Hi,

If you purchase from a private party or unapproved reseller, then you would only be able to exchange into Troon through II. You would not be able to exchange into any fractional. Although, in practical terms, you can't trade into a fractional anyway so it is not a great loss.

My understanding is that you cannot both lockoff and split your week. However, I am not 100% certain of this. I think you can only do one or the other. I would call and ask for you right now, but owner services won't be open again until Monday morning.

In regards to the waitlist, I have edited my above post because I am not 100% sure that there is no waitlist. I don't think there is, but I may need to double check. I just keep calling back if the week I want is not available. I try to plan in advance, though, so that I don't have this problem.

Steve

Steve said:

Hi,

If you purchase from a private party or unapproved reseller, then you would only be able to exchange into Troon through II. You would not be able to exchange into any fractional. Although, in practical terms, you can't trade into a fractional anyway so it is not a great loss.

My understanding is that you cannot both lockoff and split your week. However, I am not 100% certain of this. I think you can only do one or the other. I would call and ask for you right now, but owner services won't be open again until Monday morning.

In regards to the waitlist, I have edited my above post because I am not 100% sure that there is no waitlist. I don't think there is, but I may need to double check. I just keep calling back if the week I want is not available. I try to plan in advance, though, so that I don't have this problem.

Steve

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Thanks Steve

H

Steve or anybody:
What is the difference between a single week unit and a fractional unit besides the fact that fractional ownership is multi-week (4 or 5?)? Is there any physical difference? Can II-exchanged units be either fractional or singly owned? What is the difference in MF?

BTW, there is a FSA Gold for sale in the TUG Marketplace for $400:
http://tug2.com/TimeshareMarketplac...tingGUID=10f1a698-257b-4430-8f22-12681db05e7c
(There is some out-dated information on exchanges in the ad.)

heathpack said:

Can you both split your weeks and lock-off your weeks? In this example, we'd use 1BR weekend and studio weekend and rent the corresponding mid-weeks to recoup some MF. I don't know if we'd want to bother with the hassle, but just trying to learn what is possible until the larger amount of vacation time becomes available down the road.

Click to expand...

Basically you can only book up to two separate reservations for each week that you own.

When you reserve your studio and one bedroom, you can rent the remaining days left from the same week as your reservation but there's a checkout fee (for more details see http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2009_M06/article_14133.html).


From my Four Seasons documentation

For every week you purchase, you can:

• Use the entire villa for one week
• Use the entire villa for a 3-night weekend stay on one visit and a 4-night weekday stay on another using the Split Week Privilege

With the Double Usage Privilege, a one week purchase can become two week vacation every year

• Use one unit of your villa for two weeks
• Use one week and rent out one week
• Use one week at Aviara and bank or exchange one week through Interval International
• Bank or exchange both weeks through Interval International

Just to add to what Steve stated...

6) You can split your week for home resort usage into a 3 night stay and a 4 night stay. Only one weekend can be used, however. Or you can split your week into the studio and 1 bedroom sides and use them for different weeks. There is a small fee for using the lockoff feature.

Click to expand...

For more info on Double Usage - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2009_M03/article_13367.html

8) Owners may bring their dogs. There is an approximately $195 pet fee (this fee changes slightly from time to time and depending on what size villa you occupy). You will be located in a ground floor villa when staying with pets.

Click to expand...

For more info on Pets - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2010_M08/article_17088.html

11) You book your week over the telephone. There is no website access. The hours of owner services are Monday through Friday, 8 am to 5 pm Pacific Time. You can only book a week during these hours. If you own gold, you cannot book platinum even if it is available. You would have to attempt an exchange either internally or through II or some other means..

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This is not totally correct. Gold season owners in theory can book platinum at the 6 month mark but I won't count on availability.

From Four Seasons Website
"6 months in advance of desired arrival date - Owners can request a reservation at their home resort in one season higher than they own. For example, a Silver Scottsdale owner may request dates in Gold season. Owners can also request an exchange from their home resort to Scottsdale or Aviara in one season higher than they own."

For more info about the booking windows - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2009_M06/article_14150.html

14) Reserving your home week at Aviara requires advance planning. As a single week owner, you can book 1 year in advance. Holiday, spring break, early June, and other popular weeks during the Aviara gold season go fast. Be prepared to be on the telephone at 8 am exactly one year before your desired check in date.

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In addition, multiweek owners can making it almost impossible to book prime summer and holiday weeks.

Multi-week owners not only have a 13 month window to begin booking, they can book multiple consecutive or concurrent weeks starting at the 13 month window (this models the Marriott reservation process however I believe Marriott has a cap on the % that can be booked at the 13 month mark. FS doesn't). For example a ten week FSRC platinum owner can book all ten weeks at the start of the 13 month window as long as the weeks are consecutive weeks. So in mid May, a ten week Platinum owner can reserve ten consecutive weeks from mid Jun to the end of August all within one single call or they can book ten units for the week of the 4th of July all in a single call. Single week owners and small multi-week owners get shut out of prime weeks due to large multi-week owners reserving several concurrent and/or consecutive weeks.

LLW said:

Steve or anybody:
What is the difference between a single week unit and a fractional unit besides the fact that fractional ownership is multi-week (4 or 5?)? Is there any physical difference? Can II-exchanged units be either fractional or singly owned? What is the difference in MF?

Click to expand...

For Aviara, I believe the only difference is the booking window. Multi week owners can book 13 months before check-in. Single week owners can only book 12 months before check-in (see prior post about booking windows).

alwysonvac said:

Just to add to what Steve stated...


For more info on Double Usage - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2009_M03/article_13367.html


For more info on Pets - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2010_M08/article_17088.html



This is not totally correct. Gold season owners in theory can book platinum at the 6 month mark but I won't count on availability.

From Four Seasons Website
"6 months in advance of desired arrival date - Owners can request a reservation at their home resort in one season higher than they own. For example, a Silver Scottsdale owner may request dates in Gold season. Owners can also request an exchange from their home resort to Scottsdale or Aviara in one season higher than they own."

For more info about the booking windows - http://www.fourseasons.com/interlude/2009_M06/article_14150.html



In addition, multiweek owners can making it almost impossible to book prime summer and holiday weeks.

Multi-week owners not only have a 13 month window to begin booking, they can book multiple consecutive or concurrent weeks starting at the 13 month window (this models the Marriott reservation process however I believe Marriott has a cap on the % that can be booked at the 13 month mark. FS doesn't). For example a ten week FSRC platinum owner can book all ten weeks at the start of the 13 month window as long as the weeks are consecutive weeks. So in mid May, a ten week Platinum owner can reserve ten consecutive weeks from mid Jun to the end of August all within one single call or they can book ten units for the week of the 4th of July all in a single call. Single week owners and small multi-week owners get shut out of prime weeks due to large multi-week owners reserving several concurrent and/or consecutive weeks.

Click to expand...

VERY helpful. Thanks so much.

H

Just realized that I forgot to address the waitlist question..

If there is no waitlist, what do you do if your desired week is unavailable- just keep calling?

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Yes, there is a waitlist option.

As a single week gold season owner, I've been shut out of prime Gold Season weeks (whenever the kids are out of school). I've tried calling exactly when the reservation desk opened for Friday, Saturday & Sunday check-ins. Sometimes I was offered to be placed on the waitlist which was already long (there's a max but I don't remember what it was) and sometimes I got shut out of the waitlist. I got smart and started asking how many units were available for the upcoming check-in days the day before the 12 month mark and most (if not all) of the time it was in the single digits. For now, I've given up trying for holiday weeks.


JMHO...I would suggest renting vs owning.

Rental sites
http://www.redweek.com/resort/P726-four-seasons-residence-club-aviara
http://www.triwest-timeshare.com/resort/rent/92009FO

alwysonvac said:

Just realized that I forgot to address the waitlist question..



Yes, there is a waitlist option.

As a single week gold season owner, I've been shut out of prime Gold Season weeks (whenever the kids are out of school). I've tried calling exactly when the reservation desk opened for Friday, Saturday & Sunday check-ins. Sometimes I was offered to be placed on the waitlist which was already long (there's a max but I don't remember what it was) and sometimes I got shut out of the waitlist. I got smart and started asking how many units were available for the upcoming check-in days the day before the 12 month mark and most (if not all) of the time it was in the single digits. For now, I've given up trying for holiday weeks.


JMHO...I would suggest renting vs owning.

Rental sites
http://www.redweek.com/resort/P726-four-seasons-residence-club-aviara
http://www.triwest-timeshare.com/resort/rent/92009FO

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Well, it seems the deck is stacked against the single week owner! FS seems very nice but not especially user-friendly unless you buy big.

Will really need to think this through.

H

heathpack said:

Well, it seems the deck is stacked against the single week owner! FS seems very nice but not especially user-friendly unless you buy big.

Will really need to think this through.

H

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I started as a single week owner and didn't feel the 'deck was stacked' - then again I was NOT trying to get the US Thanksgiving or Christmas weeks - either.

I meet lots of other Aviara owners who do the quick drive from LA - you are sure handy for a quick drive.

And a possible week for sale at $400 - wow - that is the lowest we have seen by a long shot ( if FS lets that go thru ROFR then they will let anything go thru - whomever buys it - could you let us all know? ). I think the last ranges have been $4-5,000 - still a long way done from my first week we bought - and that was a long way off the developers price.

I think the big issue is now -- control your debt. All the gloom and doom people and their 'double dip' deflation ( which just could have some truth in what they are saying) - keep a common sense approach to your live style and if you have the 'where with all' to enjoy Aviara - great. Noticed in most recent board minutes the number of overdue members - while not a huge number - still a sign of the times.

Greg

GregGH said:

...I was NOT trying to get the US Thanksgiving or Christmas weeks - either...

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In general, we don't care to travel over holiday weeks. However, we could envision a scenario in which we might want to invite relatives with school-age children, so it would be nice to have a decent shot at booking Thanksgiving or Easter or spring break.

I'm not crazy about TS systems in which multiple weeks owners have the ability to make reservations before single week owners. We own with Disney VC and Hyatt VC and neither of them do this. To each his own, however, and more power to you if this works for you.

H

heathpack said:

In general, we don't care to travel over holiday weeks. However, we could envision a scenario in which we might want to invite relatives with school-age children, so it would be nice to have a decent shot at booking Thanksgiving or Easter or spring break.

I'm not crazy about TS systems in which multiple weeks owners have the ability to make reservations before single week owners. We own with Disney VC and Hyatt VC and neither of them do this. To each his own, however, and more power to you if this works for you.

H

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We're in the same boat.

We actually prefer to travel off season (when the kids are in school) since it's just the two of us however we have relatives with school-age children. I agree, it would be nice to be able to book spring break, Thanksgiving and/or XMAS every once in a while. I was able to book Thanksgiving week and a week during spring break a long time ago but in recent years I've been unsuccessful. I'm assuming some multiweek owners are booking prime weeks to rent since there is extremely limited comparable exchange options available for FS owners.

Here's an old 2007 thread that you might find helpful. It will give you some history.
What does Four Seasons have to offer - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45924&highlight=aviara

Good luck with your decision.

Still tempted by resale prices and the fact that our little dogs could come stay with us. They give us that look and make us feel bad whenever we leave them. It is worth a little premium in cost to not have the dog guilt, I think.

Can anyone comment on the historical rate of increase of MF?


Thanks,
H

Priority in II?

Do FS owners have priority period in II for exchanges (the way Marriott and Starwood owners have)?

heathpack said:

Still tempted by resale prices and the fact that our little dogs could come stay with us. They give us that look and make us feel bad whenever we leave them. It is worth a little premium in cost to not have the dog guilt, I think.

Can anyone comment on the historical rate of increase of MF?


Thanks,
H

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I have to confess that one of the major reasons I purchased my Four Seasons weeks is so that my dogs could come along. I love the resorts, but I probably would not have purchased at either Aviara or Troon if dogs were not allowed.

My dogs are great travelers and it is really fun having them there. I think it is worth the premium. Everyone has a great time...the people and the dogs.

As for the MF, the increases have fortunately not been too bad on a percentage basis. They tend to go up a little bit each year, but not nearly as drastically as Marriott or Starwood or some of the others. If my memory is correct, it seems that the fees were about $1600 ten years ago. Someone else may have more concrete figures.

Steve

Steve said:

I have to confess that one of the major reasons I purchased my Four Seasons weeks is so that my dogs could come along. I love the resorts, but I probably would not have purchased at either Aviara or Troon if dogs were not allowed.

My dogs are great travelers and it is really fun having them there. I think it is worth the premium. Everyone has a great time...the people and the dogs.

As for the MF, the increases have fortunately not been too bad on a percentage basis. They tend to go up a little bit each year, but not nearly as drastically as Marriott or Starwood or some of the others. If my memory is correct, it seems that the fees were about $1600 ten years ago. Someone else may have more concrete figures.

Steve

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See what I mean by "the look"???? Since you have dogs, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean...

If you are right that the increase has been $1600 to $2200 over 10 years, that's only a 3% increase per year. Not bad at all.

H

First I've heard of this. Does Four Seasons allow pets at all their residence club locations?

heathpack said:

See what I mean by "the look"???? Since you have dogs, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean...

If you are right that the increase has been $1600 to $2200 over 10 years, that's only a 3% increase per year. Not bad at all.

H

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Thanks for sharing that great picture of your little dog! I definitely know that look. As soon as the suitcases come out, my dogs get very sad...even though lately they have been getting to come along on about 1/2 of our trips. (They get to come on all of our Four Seasons trips.) They are so excited when they realize that they get to come.

Steve

travelguy said:

First I've heard of this. Does Four Seasons allow pets at all their residence club locations?

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I don't know about all of them, but the Four Seasons Residence Clubs at both Aviara and Scottsdale allow dogs. I think the weight limit is about 50 lbs, but I'm not sure of the exact amount.

The Residence Club in Jackson Hole has a 15 lb limit...which is too low for my cocker spaniels. You'd probably need to check with each Residence Club to find out what their pet policy is.

Steve

sjuhawk_jd said:

Do FS owners have priority period in II for exchanges (the way Marriott and Starwood owners have)?

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Yes, Four Seasons owners do have a priority period in II. However, only the Aviara and Scottsdale locations exchange through II...so the priority is only good at these two resorts.

Steve

Steve said:

I don't know about all of them, but the Four Seasons Residence Clubs at both Aviara and Scottsdale allow dogs. I think the weight limit is about 50 lbs, but I'm not sure of the exact amount.

The Residence Club in Jackson Hole has a 15 lb limit...which is too low for my cocker spaniels. You'd probably need to check with each Residence Club to find out what their pet policy is.

Steve

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Thanks for this info. I'd given up on trying to travel to higher-end resorts with TravelWife's Yorkie (8 pds). This was a major drawback with the Destination Club we belonged to and none of our timeshares allow our pup. Now if I can just figure out how to trade into the 4SRC properties ...

... surprised that PowerShift never brought up the 4S dog policy ... maybe his Canadian pooch is more than 50 pds?

Hi

a couple of points to reply to:
1) MF's at FS - do you not find other TS's have HUGE increases after the realize they way under priced their MF's to begin with? The FS will do what they need to do to keep their reputation! If you like cheap cleaning - lots of others to choice from.

If any have not seen the book ( link here >>> http://www.amazon.com/Four-Seasons-...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282504703&sr=1-1 ) on FS by it's founder -- read some of the comments.

I think once you understand what FS stands for -- you understand why they do what they do. Hey - this is why the 'new owners' of the Aviara property wanted to cheapen the hotel - you know the response. That takes a lot of guts in todays marketplace to stand by your principles.

2) Dogs -- I read the owners book - then called and said I had a female golden retriever - would she be too far over the 'limit' --in typical FS style the person said 'we would never ask a lady her weight'. While I have yet to take my dog there - it is nice to have that option ... maybe... someday.

Overall - I think this is the BEST VALUE of anywhere - when you want to experience what Four Seasons is like. maybe someday I will have a chance to try Mexico or Costra Rica - but for me - this is tremendous VALUE when you understand the level of service they provide and how few places anywhere else come close to this ... period. Yep - guess I have become a 'convert' big time.

Greg