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MVCEC Enrollment Agreement, Item 5g: An Email Story

Herb33

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MVCEC Enrollment Agreement, Item 5g, reads as follows:

Owner recognizes and acknowledges that representations concerning participation in the Program are limited to materials supplied or otherwise approved by MVCEC in writing. ALL OTHER REPRESENTATIONS ARE NOT VALID OR BINDING ON MVCEC; [Bold CAPS in the orgiinal]​

Keep the above in mind as you browse through the following email conversation ...


Email #1: Me to Sales Exec (SE) with cc to Sales Manager (SM)

The attached email from Owner Services [not included here] says 550 PlusPoints have been deposited to my account.

I assume these are the points referred to in our Contract for Purchase under item X: ADDITIONAL TERMS.

As you may recall, during your presentation on 6/25/10 you mistakenly offered us 1,100 PlusPoints for signing the points contract that day. When you were made aware of this mistake, [the SM] agreed to honor the offer of 1,100 points, and he signed a separate letter that was included with the contract agreeing to deposit the additional 550 points.

Also, when we executed the Enrollment Agreement to enroll our weeks in the new program, Item 1 in the Addendum to this agreement awarded us an additional 800 PlusPoints.

We should now have 1,900 PlusPoints in our account.

I spoke to a Vacation Ownership Advisor about this, and she told me I needed to bring this matter to your attention. Please let me know if there's something more I need to do in order to have all of the PlusPoints we were awarded back in June deposited to our account.

*******************************


Email #2: SM to Me

[The SE] is out of the office on vacation and I wanted to respond. I do recall the sale and the mix-up with regards to the Plus Points. The 550 missing points will be credited to your account. With regards to the 800 plus points for enrolling, they are part of the 1,100 total points for the purchase (broken down: 300 plus points for the purchase and 800 plus points for enrolling, which we waived the $695 enrollment cost). I will forward to our liaison to post the 500 points.

*******************************


Email #3: Me to SM

Ref your last: “With regards to the 800 plus points for enrolling, they are part of the 1,100 total points for the purchase (broken down: 300 plus points for the purchase and 800 plus points for enrolling, which we waived the $695 enrollment cost).”

I do not remember being told this until now.

What I see in the signed documents I have in front of me is the following:
-- 550 points in the purchase contract (ADDITIONAL TERMS);
-- 550 points in a separate letter over your signature; and
-- 800 points in the signed addendum to the Enrollment Agreement.

I can find no reference in the signed documents to 1,100 total PlusPoints for purchase & enrollment or to 800 points being offered in lieu of waiving the enrollment fee. This includes the Quality Assurance Checklists we initialed and signed for both transactions.

*******************************


Email #4: SM to me

If you have an opportunity to go on the Marriott website, it provides you information about enrolling and explains by paying the enrollment fee ($695) you will receive 800 plus points. In the case of a purchaser buying destination points, we combine the enrollment and on-tour incentive points together. The only option I can offer is if you wish to pay the $695 enrollment, Marriott will provide you the 800 plus points.

*******************************


Email #5: Me to SM with cc to MVCI Director of Customer Advocacy (DCA)

I have a legal document -- ADDENDUM TO MVC EXCHANGE COMPANY ENROLLMENT AGREEMENT -- signed by me and a member of your sales team that says the following:

The Enrollment Agreement is hereby modified to include the following:

1. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Addendum, MVCEC hereby awards to Owner 800 Vacation Club Points ("PlusPoints"). PlusPoints will be deposited in Owner's account within sixty (60) days after the date of Owner's enrollment in the program.​

Prior to meeting with [the SE] on 6/25/10, as required by our Encore Vacation contract, we knew absolutely nothing about the new Marriott program. We did not even know it existed until about 20 minutes into our meeting with [the SE]. We assumed we were there to talk about purchasing a WEEK. Marriott had provided us with no advance information about the new program. We were not aware of any information about this program on the Marriott web site. Why? Because we had no reason to be aware of it.

Are you now telling me that information on a promotional Marriott web site that I had no reason to be aware of at the time I signed these legal documents takes precedence over these documents?

And BTW … the information I see now on this web page says nothing about having to pay an enrollment fee in order to receive 800 PlusPoints. It simply says: "For a limited time, receive 800 Vacation Club PlusPoints when you enroll!" Well, we enrolled. And the enrollment documents I signed say we will be awarded 800 PlusPoints.

*************************

To be continued ............
 
It is always amazing to me how when a company has a chance to create good will with a customer (let alone honor a signed contract), they more often than not choose to alienate the customer for what amounts to a minimal cost to them. :(
 
Email #6: SM to me with cc to DCA (today)

I am looking into this matter and will advise you as soon as possible. Likely, it will be next week.

************************

To be continued ....
 
Email #6: SM to me with cc to DCA (today)

I am looking into this matter and will advise you as soon as possible. Likely, it will be next week.

************************

To be continued ....

If you had any second thoughts about your points purchase, you appear to have a valid basis for voiding the contract.
 
Email #7: DCA to Me (today)

I apologize for the confusion surrounding the issue of Plus Points associated with enrolling your weeks in the Destination program. Thank you for copying me on the email exchange you have had with [the SM].

I have reached out to [the SM] and will be discussing this further next week. So that I may better serve you, please allow me some time to involve myself and fully research the matter. I will follow up with you personally by the end of next week. However, you can always reach me at the number below.

**************************

To be continued .....
 
Email #8: Me to MVCI Director of Customer Advocacy (today)

There is one more area of "confusion" I would like you to think about.

When we met with [our SE] on 6/25/10 for the sales presentation required by our Encore Vacation contract, we assumed the purpose of the meeting was to discuss the possibility of purchasing a WEEK. We knew absolutely nothing about the new points program Marriott had launched only 5 days earlier. We had received no advance communication from Marriott about the new program. We did not learn of its existence until 20 minutes into our meeting with [the SE]. From that point on we were completely at [the SE's] mercy with regard to the details of the new program. And not once did he inform us that we did NOT have to purchase points in order to enroll our weeks in the program. Without explicitly saying so, he clearly implied and lead us to believe that we must first 'join' the new program by purchasing points before we could enroll our weeks.

I will say it again: Not once did [the SE] inform us that we could enroll our weeks in the new program without purchasing points.

How's that for "confusion"?

****************************

To be continued .....
 
Remind me where you took the DC program presentation?
 
Email #6: SM to me with cc to DCA (today)

I am looking into this matter and will advise you as soon as possible. Likely, it will be next week.

************************

To be continued ....

Herb, I suggest forwarding your e-mail correspondence to Ray Filippone, MVCI's Director of Customer Advocacy. His E-Mail address is ramon.filippone@vacationclub.com. His phone # is 1-800-850-6674, ext 6674. His fax # is 1-407-206-6097.

Ray is an honest guy who has helped me on a couple of occasions, including one time when I was being denied some of the incentive points offered when I bought a week a few years ago. He has the power to fix it on the spot and I think he will likely do so once he sees your documents. Good luck.
 
Herb, I suggest forwarding your e-mail correspondence to Ray Filippone, MVCI's Director of Customer Advocacy. His E-Mail address is ramon.filippone@vacationclub.com. His phone # is 1-800-850-6674, ext 6674. His fax # is 1-407-206-6097.

There must be more than one Director of Customer Advocacy at MVCI. I have been communicating by phone and email with:

John A Goodman
Director of Customer Advocacy
Marriott Vacation Club International Executive Office
Toll Free: 800-936-6824
 
Email #9: Me to David Babich (today)

Mr Babich,

As you know, every customer who signs a Contract for Purchase and/or a MVCEC Enrollment Agreement is also required to sign a Quality Assurance Checklist for each of these transactions.

At the top of these Checklists is the following statement:

"Owner satisfaction results from your complete understanding of all components of the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations program. Please take the time to review the following and sign in the space provided indicating tht you understand each component. This effort will aid us in ensuring excellence beyond owner expectations."​

In the interest of ensuring customers' "complete understanding of all components of the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations program [and] excellence beyond owner expectations," don't you think it would be a good idea to have an item in both of these Checklists reminding customers who already own WEEKS purchased from Marriott that they do NOT have to purchase Vacation Club Points in order to enroll their weeks in the new program?

Such a Checklist item would have been very helpful to us at our sales presentation on 6/25/10 when our Sales Executive neglected to inform us that we could enroll our weeks without purchasing points.

*********************

To be continued ....
 
Email #10: Me to Sales Exec (SE) with cc to Sales Manager (SM) (today)

During your sales presentation on 6/25/10, you told us our points purchase would qualify us for 50,000 Marriott Rewards points as a 'self-referral' under the FriendShare program. When I asked if there was any paperwork we had to complete to get these points, you told us you would take care of it.

We have not yet seen these points posted to our MR account.

Could you please look into this for us?

******************************

To be continued ....
 
I would slow down on all of the e-mails YOU are sending. The DCA already indicated they would be discussing the issue on their side and would get back with you by the end of next week. You have sent at least three new e-mails after that one. Give them a chance to do their job. All of the e-mails you are sending are only going to make things more complicated, get far more people involved which will cause problems. You will also drive yourself nuts.
 
This should be a no-brainer for Marriott. It is in writing.
If they made a mistake, they should just suck it up and be done with it.
 
This should be a no-brainer for Marriott. It is in writing.
If they made a mistake, they should just suck it up and be done with it.

And that's probably what will happen ... now that it's been elevated.

But this is about more than just 800 points.

It's about being reminded of my very first timeshare sales presentation some 14 years ago. It was with Fairfield Resorts. And when it was over I needed a long hot shower.

Your mileage may vary.
 
New points program...ohhh, what a mess !

Marriott is allowing entry level people to sell the new Destination points program. The rep I spoke to was entry level and she told me I would save nearly $800, enough to pay for the entire cost of joining and 1st year membership because my 4 weeks already on deposit with II would save me that much. Not true. Weeks already on deposit with II are not eligible. What do we really save? Nothing because who would give weeks to II if you can trade within the Marriott system at no cost?
Secondly, she told me she "checked availability at Frenchmen's Cove and I could deposit my weeks and book my daughter at Frenchmen's Cove for her honeymoon in February. Not true. Entry level employees do not have access to availability information and a "senior" representative told me there was no availability to Frenchmen's Cove for February or March, much less, there were no openings in the entire Carribbean ! I then talked to the Supervisor of the "Senior Representatives" and she told me I would receive an email within 48 hours and would need to type the words "I accept the terms and conditions" and email it back to them before they could tell me availability. I then talked to the supervisors, supervisor. He was a jerk. He said they couldn't send me the email because they didn't have access to that system. Not true. A couple of days later, I spoke to a "senior advisor" who could tell me all of this information including how she could send me another email without any trouble. I then asked her, "miss, if i was going to join, why would I join if very few members from the carribbean joined and if Marriott put very few unsold weeks from the carribbean into the program?" I said, "miss, don't you think we as owners should know exactly how many members are entering the program and how many weeks Marriott has put into the program and what resorts these weeks are coming from?" She said, "yes sir, i absolutely would want to know every one of those details before i was sold something and before i replied to an email by saying I accept the terms and conditions." She said "only the owners of carribbean resorts who join the destinations club and actually deposit their weeks and only Marriott unsold and deposited weeks will be available to owners in the Destination points program so, absolutely, I would want to know this." She said, "unfortunately, senior advisors do not have and do not receive this information and I doubt they will tell you as an owner either."
In the mean time, entry level kids continue to sell a program that they are largely "clueless" about. So called "senior advisors" and their supervisors are largely "clueless" about the details of this program but you can bet your next paycheck that they have sales quota's and they are hammered to meet their minimums or lose their jobs....and you can bet thousands of Marriott customers are being led down a deceiving and possibly foolish road. And lastly, this could be the death of the II's and that would lead to a Marriott stranglehold which would allow them once again to change the rules later and give their so called "owners" the shaft once again. What an embarrassment.
 
There must be more than one Director of Customer Advocacy at MVCI. I have been communicating by phone and email with:

John A Goodman
Director of Customer Advocacy
Marriott Vacation Club International Executive Office
Toll Free: 800-936-6824

I think there are 2 or 3 of them, but not a lot. Filippone is the only one I have personal experience with. I am surprised Goodman has not resolved the situation already.
 
Email #10: Me to Sales Exec (SE) with cc to Sales Manager (SM) (today)

During your sales presentation on 6/25/10, you told us our points purchase would qualify us for 50,000 Marriott Rewards points as a 'self-referral' under the FriendShare program. When I asked if there was any paperwork we had to complete to get these points, you told us you would take care of it.

We have not yet seen these points posted to our MR account.

Could you please look into this for us?

******************************

To be continued ....

There is not any paperwork for the Friendshare points. It is automatic, but now it usually takes 6 months for these points to post. The Friendshare documents give a much shorter time frame (60 or 90 days, I think), but I have been told several times that the timeframe is now 6 months. The posting usually happens like clockwork, but a couple of times there has been a glitch, so you need to stay on top of it.
 
Marriott is allowing entry level people to sell the new Destination points program. ...​

I'm sure there's a lot of that going on, but the sales exec in this email story has been our go-to guy for well over 10 years. He sold us both of our weeks. He has a corner office overlooking the ocean and the beach. Its walls are covered with plaques.
 
Marriott Sales Rep

My Marriott Sales rep was helpful for several years but was fired and we never had another go-to person since. I had advisors but each time I tried to contact them, they were "unavailable" and no longer working there. I have had 3 different advisors in the last 2 years and that is just the 3 I know about.
 
What follows is from a submission I made to Bill's Blog. It was never posted online, but I've been told that Mr Marriott (or his staff) brought it to the attention of the executive staff at MVCI HQ:

Fourteen years ago we sat through our very first timeshare sales presentation at Fairfield Resorts in Williamsburg, VA. When it was over we felt like we needed a long, hot shower. It was that sleazy. The next day we had our first MVC presentation at Marriott’s Manor Club, and we purchased our first timeshare. The pitch was direct, honest, and respectful – a refreshing contrast with our experience of the day before. Our sales rep that day not only sold us a timeshare. She sold us on Marriott.

Since then we’ve purchased 3 more MVC weeks directly from Marriott and still own 2 of them. We’ve spent hundreds of nights in Marriott hotels and persuaded numerous friends and relatives to stay with Marriott.

Fast forward to June 25, 2010. That’s the day we sat down with a senior sales executive at the Oceana Palms Resort for another sales presentation. We were there on an Encore Vacation contract and obligated by the contract to attend.

When we arrived for the presentation, we assumed we were there to discuss the possible purchase of a timeshare week. We had no idea we could not have purchased a week even if we wanted to. We knew absolutely nothing about the new points program launched 4 days earlier. We had received no advance communication from Marriott about it. We did not know it existed until 20 minutes into the presentation. From that point on we were totally at the mercy of the sales rep for the facts and details we would need to make an informed decision. This sales executive had sold us our 2 Ocean Pointe weeks. We thought we could trust him to tell us everything we needed to know to make the right decision for us.

But not once during the presentation did he tell us that we did not have to purchase points in order to enjoy the benefits of enrolling our weeks in the new program. From beginning to end, he presented the benefits of enrollment as incentives for purchasing points, clearly implying that a points purchase was required to “join” the new program before we could enroll our weeks. As this seemed to make some sense at the time, it never occurred to us to question it. We had come to the meeting with no knowledge or experience on which to base such questions anyway. (After all, if you want to convert a timeshare week to Marriott Reward points, you must first buy a timeshare week from Marriott.) Therefore, since the benefits of enrollment were the key selling point for us, we ended up purchasing the minimum 1,000 points. Why? Because we were led to believe we had no choice if we wanted to enroll our weeks.

It was not until 2 months later that I learned we had purchased points unnecessarily.

We already own the equivalent of 7,650 vacation points per year. There is no way we would have spent $9,000 for an additional 1,000 points if we had known it wasn’t necessary. Not to mention the additional $600 per year in fees.

I believe our trust in Marriott and our convenient lack of knowledge about this complicated new program were exploited. Did the sales rep intentionally deceive us? Was he simply following the training he had received a few days earlier? Did he honestly expect us to know -- in spite of everything he was telling us and not telling us -- that we could enroll our weeks without buying points? Without the sales rep telling us, on what basis should we have known, on 6/25/10, that we could enroll our weeks without buying points? I do not know the answers to these questions.

This I do know. The strategy was to sell points. That’s how MVC and its sales staff make their money now. And the tactics fit the strategy perfectly. I get that. And to the extent the sales rep encouraged our misunderstanding on this point, it was to his and Marriott's advantage to do so.

But at some point before leaving the sales gallery that day, someone should have made it explicitly clear to us that we could enroll our weeks in the new program without buying points. At the very least, this fact should be Item Number 1 on the Quality Assurance Checklists we were required to sign along with the purchase contract and enrollment agreement.

This morning I spent over an hour on the phone with MVCI's Director of Customer Advocacy. I will relate the gist of that conversation and wrap this story up in my next post or two.

Herb
 
Wrapping it up ...

As noted in my last post, I was on the phone for more than hour this morning with MVCI's Director of Customer Advocacy. We discussed the 2 main issues raised in email and blog communications which I’ve reproduced in this thread. Here is where we ended up.

On the issue of 800 PlusPoints for enrolling our weeks (emails 1-7) …

After having reviewed my documents, the DCA supports my position and will ensure the points are deposited to my account. Furthermore, he agrees with me that the Sales Manager was wrong to cite the MVC web site as authority for withholding the points. I pointed out that not only was the SM wrong to cite the website as HIS authority, but by doing so he actually helped me to make MY case. This web page offers 800 PlusPoints for enrolling your weeks AND offers waiver of the enrollment fee if you also purchase points. There is no suggestion that it’s EITHER/OR. The DCA agrees with my interpretation of that web page and plans to have it "fixed".

On the issue of questionable sales tactics (emails 8 and 9 and my post to Bill’s Blog) …

The DCA "understands" how I "might have" been mislead into believing I could not enroll my weeks without buying points. However, his position on sales tactics, in general, is that it’s acceptable for the sales rep to allow -- even encourage (!) -- "misunderstandings" to develop and continue throughout the presentation in furtherance of making the sale. What is NOT acceptable, however, is for the sales rep to intentionally misrepresent the known facts -- i.e., lie. In this case, while the rep led us to believe, by implication, that we could not enroll our weeks without first purchasing points, and while he never once told us that the opposite is true, he also never explicitly told us we must first buy points before we would be eligible to enroll our weeks. In other words, he did not lie.

The DCA fully concurs with my suggestion that the Quality Assurance Checklist signed by each customer who buys points should include a statement to the effect that a points purchase is NOT required for eligibility to enroll qualified weeks in the new program.

Finally, the DCA said he's going to send me a Marriott gift card. I thought it would be rude to ask how much. So I didn't. :)
 
Last edited:
Finally, the DCA said he's going to send me a Marriott gift card. I thought it would be rude to ask how much. So I didn't. :)

$9000? :ponder:
 

$9,200

What a bunch of sleazebags. New nomination for the David Seigal award.

IANAL, but if this isn't fraud in the inducement, it's very close to the edge.
 
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