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Old September 29, 2010, 11:16 PM   #1
DrBopp
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Resorts: Wyndham Points Sheraton Broadway Plantation Sea Crest Surf & Racquet Ellington@Wachesaw East Spinnaker@ Waterside
Biennial Points

I read your work in the Wyndham Points Primer and thought it was great! It convinced me to get into the Wyndham Points system and now I am the proud owner of 231k Annual Points and trying to close on 105k Biennial Points(odd) which brings me to my question. In Lesson X, you made the statement that buying 105k Biennial Points effectively gave you 210K points each year. I just don't understand the mechanics behind the statement. If you could break it down so that I can see it. I am already searching for another 105k Biennial Points(even) to go with the one I am closing on, but I want to maximize my effective use and understanding the concept behind the statement would help a lot.
Thanks for a great primer and I look forward to your response.

Gordon

PS...... I was also wondering if the 2 Biennial weeks had to be at the same resort to receive the full effect?

Last edited by DrBopp; September 30, 2010 at 02:20 AM.
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Old September 30, 2010, 09:42 AM   #2
jjmanthei05
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Resorts: Resorts: Wyndham VIP Gold - 2.5M (Patriots Place, Smoky Mountains, Glacier Canyon, Ocean Blvd)
From what Goofy is showing, it looks like he has 2 210K EOY contracts which when split up gives him 105K per year on each contract. If he had 2 105K biennial contracts he wouldn't get 364,000 Jan use year points he would only get 259,000 per year. If I'm wrong please clarify but if you are going to buy 2 EOY contracts of the same size on each odd and even years, why not save the money on closing costs and get and EY contract for that amount of points? The only way I see this as a benefit is if you want ARP at 2 different resorts on alternating years. If you don't care about ARP I don't see a point of doing this.

Jason
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Old September 30, 2010, 01:52 PM   #3
Goofyhobbie
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Biennial Year contracts

Jason,

When I purchased my Wyndham Points, the purchase involved three e-bay Auctions that ended up putting 469,000 points into my Wyndham Account.

The first two Auctions involved a January - December Use Year and provided a total of 364,000 points. But their were three underlying contracts.

The last Auction was for a straight forward 105K every year contract with a April - March Use Year that overlaps my January - December Use Year. That particular contract was purchased to provide additional flexiblity that is fully explained in Article X.

The first Auction was a straight forward 154K every year contract.

The second Auction, which is the Auction being discussed, involved 210,000 points every year; but their were two separate underlying contracts. One of the two contracts was for 105K every even year and one contract was for 105K every odd year. The two 105k biennial contracts when viewed together provide 210,000 points every year. That particular Auction purchase was a good purchase for me because it involved just one closing fee and two transfer fees. When I eventually divest myself of the 210,000 points I can more easily complete a sale by offering them as a package or separately.

I chose to have as much flexibility as possible when making my overall purchase decision.

Gordon (DrBopp),

Welcome to the Wyndham Forums here on TUG and for your kind remarks about the NEW Wyndham Points Articles. I hope you enjoy your points and come back again and again to the Articles and to this Forum to fully maximize your ownership. Immediately below I am quoting a sentence from your original post above.

Quote:
In Lesson X, you made the statement that buying 105k Biennial Points effectively gave you 210K points each year.
To the best of my knowledge I did not make the exact statement that you have attributed to me. I did, however, say:

Quote:
Notice that two of the contracts are biennial with one being every even year and one being every odd year. The effect of the two together is to give me 210,000 points every year.
When you read the two sentences in context (within Article X immediately below Illustration # 1), you will notice that I was referring to Illustration # 1.

Illustration # 1 permits you to see my Biennial Year contracts. The 105,000 EVEN Year Contract and the 105,000 ODD Year Contract are displayed the way Wyndham displays the contracts on the Wyndham website. While viewing the two [contracts] together you should see the intended emphasis.

The two contracts when viewed together total 210,000 points every year.

Last edited by Goofyhobbie; September 30, 2010 at 01:55 PM.
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Old September 30, 2010, 03:26 PM   #4
DrBopp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofyhobbie View Post
Jason,


Gordon (DrBopp),

To the best of my knowledge I did not make the exact statement that you have attributed to me. I did, however, say:


When you read the two sentences in context (within Article X immediately below Illustration # 1), you will notice that I was referring to Illustration # 1.

Illustration # 1 permits you to see my Biennial Year contracts. The 105,000 EVEN Year Contract and the 105,000 ODD Year Contract are displayed the way Wyndham displays the contracts on the Wyndham website. While viewing the two [contracts] together you should see the intended emphasis.

The two contracts when viewed together total 210,000 points every year.
"To the best of my knowledge I did not make the exact statement that you have attributed to me. "

I was only paraphrasing your statement.

I get that when you view the points you would see 210K every year, but say that you actually deposited the 2010 points in the Pool or borrowed the 2010 points to complete a transaction in 2009, would not the result in 2010 show that you only had the 2011 105K points avaialable?
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Old September 30, 2010, 06:14 PM   #5
Goofyhobbie
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Quote:
Gordon said: I get that when you view the points you would see 210K every year, but say that you actually deposited the 2010 points in the Pool or borrowed the 2010 points to complete a transaction in 2009, would not the result in 2010 show that you only had the 2011 105K points avaialable?
Gordon,

As a resale buyer, the only time I could have deposited the 2010 (biennial) points into the Wyndham Points Credit Pool would have been prior to December 31, 2009. I chose not to exercise that option.

But going forward, I have that option again prior to December 31, 2010 if I choose to deposit any of my January - December Use Year points for 2011 into the Wyndham Points Credit Pool.

For the sake of discussion, if I choose to exercise my option and deposit 210k of my Jan-Dec 2011 points before December 31, 2010 I can do so. After the transaction my Wyndham Account would show 210K Credits available for immediate use. [Article IX entitled the Points Credit Pool should satisfactorily show how that feature of Wyndham Point Usage works.]

Whether or not you deposit points into the Credit Pool or borrow points from a future Use Year, the points are removed from the Use Year where the points were originally showing.

If the Points Credit Pool is involved you will see the Credits on your account as Credits and not as points. The Regular Use Year that once had the points will be depleted by the amount of Credits that show-up as Pool Credits.

If you borrow points from a future Use Year during the last 90 days of a Current Use Year, the points borrowed are taken from the future Use Year and they will show-up in the Current Use Year so that you can use them for a last minute reservation in the Current Use Year.

In the example you mentioned, had I borrowed points from my 2010 Use Year between October 1, 2009 and December 31, 2009, the points borrowed would have no longer shown in my 2010 Use Year. Instead they would have shown up in my 2009 Use Year at the moment in time just after the transaction took place. If I failed to use the "borrowed points" to make a reservation in the waining months of 2009 the "borrowed points" simply would have expired unused.
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Old October 1, 2010, 12:12 AM   #6
DrBopp
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Biennial Points

Goofy,
I must be really thick, because I still do not see it. For discussion sake, this year being 2010, your points for the Biennial Points should show 105000 for 2010(assuming that they have not yet been used) and 105000 for 2011. Now if you make a reservation for 2010 and you borrow 105000 points from 2011 to complete the reservation,whatever method that is required, when January 2011 rolls around, what should your point total reflect? It seems to me that it would reflect 0 points for 2011 and 105000 for 2012. In that instance, where would the 210000 every year come from? I am only talking about the EOY points. I can't see 210000 EVERY year from purchasing Biennial Points. I can see 210000 points every other year which is pretty much the same as Annual Points. If my logic is faulty or I am missing something here, please show me because I can't get past this point.
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:02 PM   #7
Goofyhobbie
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An Explanation

Gordon,

Obviously trying to communicate through Forums is sometimes frustrating.

I apologize for any failure to communicate on my part.

I believe you are assuming that because I have a 105,000 point Even Year Contract and a 105,000 point Odd Year Contract, Wyndham is allocating 105,000 points every year as opposed to 210,000 points every year.

Let's take a different approach using information that you should already have in hand.

Earlier you said that you are trying to close on 105k Biennial Points(odd). By now you should have asked for and received a copy of the original Deed that conveyed the 105K Biennial Points (odd) from Wyndham (Fairfield) the Grantor to your Seller the Grantee.

If you do not have a copy of the original deed then you should have asked for and obtained a copy of the Wyndham ESTOPPEL LETTER. If you do not have a copy of the Deed between the original Grantor and the Grantee or at least a copy of the ESTOPPEL LETTER, I recommend that you obtain a copy of one or both and review carefully.

My previous owner's Deed and my Warranty Deed Description is as follows:

Quote:
A 105,000 / [xxx,xxx,xxx] fractional fee simple absolute, Undivided Ownership Interest (UOI) in Units committed to Undivided Ownership numbered [such and such] as tenants in common with the other undivided interest owners of said Units, in Fairfield Myrtle Beach at Ocean Boulevard [XX] Horizontal Property Regime (the "Project" ) as described in the ..."Master Deed For Fairfield Myrtle Beach at Ocean Boulevard [XX] Horizontal Property Regime"....
My previous owner's Deed and my Warranty Deed then says:

Quote:
The property described above is a Biennial Undivided Ownership Interest and such Undivided Ownership Interest has been allocated 210,000 Points for use by the Grantees in Odd Year(s).
The 105,000 Even Year Warranty Deed has similar language.

My ESTOPPEL LETTERS for each 105,000 Biennial Contract provides the Points in the contract as [210,000 Every Even Year or 210,000 Every Odd Year] as appropriate.

As I have stated earlier, the 105,000 Even Year Contract (or Deed) and the 105,000 Odd Year Contract or (Deed) mirror each other with the end result being, I get 210,000 points from the two contracts together each and every year.
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Old October 1, 2010, 04:18 PM   #8
jjmanthei05
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Dave,

Thanks for the clarification. It all makes sense now. It would be interesting to see if Gordon's is actually written the same way or if he only gets 105K every other year.

Jason
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Old October 1, 2010, 05:19 PM   #9
DrBopp
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Biennial Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofyhobbie View Post
Go

The 105,000 Even Year Warranty Deed has similar language.

My ESTOPPEL LETTERS for each 105,000 Biennial Contract provides the Points in the contract as [210,000 Every Even Year or 210,000 Every Odd Year] as appropriate.

As I have stated earlier, the 105,000 Even Year Contract (or Deed) and the 105,000 Odd Year Contract or (Deed) mirror each other with the end result being, I get 210,000 points from the two contracts together each and every year.
Dave,
That makes it all clear now, but I was not getting that from reading your primer. You almost stated that as if it was par for the course and it may very well be considering that I have never bought points before September 2010. My contract for the 105k points fell though and too bad to because the maintenance fee was only $250 per year. I bought a contract for 126k points(EOY,even) at Seawatch on Wednesday and I can't wait to see how that contract is worded. I understand that the allocation of the points determine the contract. So I look at your contract as a 210k contract, not a 105k. So I am hoping that mine will have an allocation of 252K points every other year also.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification and I can move on to determining my best strategy for the upcoming Usage year. Keep up the great work and thanks again.

Gordon
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