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Old February 21, 2011, 07:58 AM   #1
suenmike32
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Resorts: Ocean Pointe,(3) Ocean Watch (1)
Difference between Wyndham Vacation/Worldmark?

Hello,
My wife and I rented a TS from a couple that couldn't use their week at Ocean Walk in Daytona. The premises are very nice and I have no problem with the property or ammenities.
However, whenever a question is asked about....say..."do we get a USA today" or "is wiifi free in our villa"?...we're asked if we are there as a Worldmark guest or are we with Wyndham?
When we say Worldmark...we always get a hesitation...then a "no".
I'm beginning to feel like a second class citzen.
Just wondering?
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Old February 21, 2011, 08:28 AM   #2
Rent_Share
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For the difference in maintenance fees between the two systems. You can rent the Worldmark router and buy your own paper
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Old February 21, 2011, 09:27 AM   #3
rrlongwell
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Worldmark and Wyndham are different reservation systems etc. The newspapers come with the VIP status pursuant to the Wyndham Vacation Resorts system.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:59 AM   #4
suenmike32
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Guys...
thanks for the input thus far.
Trust me...I can afford to buy the paper...however, I'm trying to find out what the difference is between Worldmark and Wyndham VC.
So far...it seems that they are two different reservation systems.
Are they both TS's?
Is there a reason why Worldmark guests stay in the north tower? and Wyndham in the south tower?
Also sounds like a major difference in MF's.
Can anybody tell me why?
Thanks,
Mike
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Old February 21, 2011, 12:47 PM   #5
Keep Traveling
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Both Timeshares.

Worldmark just "owns" those Units and Wyndham owners other Units. They are ultimately owned by the same company

But I have owned both.

Worldmark is by far superior to Wyndham.

World is best for West Coast Resorts and Wyndham for East coast.

A few places they both operate in the same facility.

KT
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Old February 21, 2011, 03:28 PM   #6
suenmike32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rent_Share View Post
For the difference in maintenance fees between the two systems. You can rent the Worldmark router and buy your own paper
I guess I'm still stymied....if I bought a T/S at Ocean Walk, wouldn't the MF's be the same? (whether it's WorldMark or Wyndham)
If not..why? .

Thanks,
Mike
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Old February 21, 2011, 03:46 PM   #7
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NO!
Worldmark is a club and all club owners have the same MFs which is a combine blending of "the club's" ownership. WM is club - not a deed property.

Wyndham owners own a deed at a specific location - like Ocean Walk or Bonnet Creek. Their MFs are based upon their personal collections of deeds and points own with each deed.

Worldmark has certain floors in the Ocean Walk building. The South tower has some fully owned condos by others; the North tower has some fully owned units by WM. I, as a Wyndham points owner, have personally stayed in both towers. I HAVE NOT stayed in a Worldmark unit and do not know how they are decorated (or if they are differently decorate).
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Old February 21, 2011, 04:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suenmike32 View Post
.. difference is between Worldmark and Wyndham VC. So far...it seems that they are two different reservation systems. Are they both TS's?
Is there a reason why Worldmark guests stay in the north tower? and Wyndham in the south tower?
Also sounds like a major difference in MF's.
Can anybody tell me why?
Thanks,
Mike
Both are timeshare.

Supplementing the above answer, the old Fairfield deeds are deeded properties where each contract specifies the fees that than can be raised or lowered at the will of that resorts Property Owners Association. New purchases are pursuant to what is Called Club Wyndham Access. If you are under Wyndham Vacation Resorts (and not Worldmark), the maintenace fees are also blended. Wyndham reserves the right to move units in and out of the Access System at will (or so I have heard). Most sales presentations I have attended have a first step as trying to take over the deeded properties and transfer your over to Access, if that fails they will usally try and sell you one of the deeded ones that are in their inventory (usally repros of one sort or another). The availablity of units between Wyndham Plus and Access appear to be overlapping but not identical.
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Old February 21, 2011, 05:42 PM   #9
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Club Wyndham Access is another CLUB membership program. It is not deeded which makes it easier for the Wyndham legal group to terminate membership - letter verses foreclousure (and all its associated costs). It also has its corporate members voting their CLUB WYNDHAM ACCESS ownership stake to their corporate plans vs the good of the common HOA ownership (self interest propositions).

As for the "older deeds" issure, I think this has become another MARKETING HOOK for the sales department. I heard tale around the old swimming hole recently, that to protect your ownership and your investment (word that the teller swore was used), you need to trade in your old Fairfield deed for Reunion resort deed as it has ROFR (as does National Harbor - which I knew from my POST several years ago). ROFR would have Wyndham buying back their deed when owner wanted to sell the property - maintaining their investment. And they had to sign the "one time only offer of this deal" and were asked ,"no one ever offered this to you BEFORE?"

As for Club Wyndham Access, it is partly a tool to control HOAs by increasing Wyndham's voting block. Think how much less management mess a vacation club is: no annual meeting notices, no voting, no budget reviews, no board members, etc. It is a club, QUIT if you don't like it. But don't pay your dues, your membership is terminated.

As for marketing the product, you can hide via smoke & mirrors, the true ARP value of ownership at any one location. Yes, Club Wyndham Access has deeded weeks at Pompano Beach locations - but how many weeks are the PRIME snowbird weeks verses hurricane season weeks?
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Old February 21, 2011, 06:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suenmike32 View Post
I guess I'm still stymied....if I bought a T/S at Ocean Walk, wouldn't the MF's be the same? (whether it's WorldMark or Wyndham)
If not..why? .

Thanks,
Mike
It is not that simple. As has been pointed out, WM MF are blended with other WM properties, and WVO MFs have their own blending. Although if you use both ownerships solely for Ocean Walk, it would make no difference to you what the blending is, you are still paying for the other benefits of each system differently.

The annual MF for a WM high season 2BR at Ocean Walk is $695. What is it for a equivalent WVO unit?
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Old February 22, 2011, 04:38 PM   #11
suenmike32
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Well...I think I have somewhat of a handle on this....but the reality of the whole post is....that Worldmark guests are "not quit treated the same" as Wyndham guests.
I don't want to...but I might take the presentation deal and ask my own questions.
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Old February 22, 2011, 05:31 PM   #12
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Resorts: Wyndham, Worldmark, and weeks in New Orleans, San Antonio, New Mexico and Hawaii
And Wyndham guests are not treated the same as Worldmark guests

Take the presentation deal and ask your own questions and learn what you can, just realize that if you are talking to a wyndham salesman you will get a different answer than if you are talking to a worldmark salesman. Each will present their own product in the best light. And if you get less than honest salesmen, one might do a better job of lying than the other.

Trust me you will get better answers right here. Answers tempered by wisdom and experience. There will be a healthy dose of opinionated comment. but if you can overlook that and drill down to the facts you will find answers to your questions. Maybe not the answer you want, but certainly the answer you need...if you are open-minded enough to accept it

You have gotten lots of good answers here, and yet seem dissatisfied. I cant figure out whats missing.

Perhaps an analogy might help.

What if I asked you to explain the difference between a Cadillac and a Buick. Both companies started out as independent companies but both are now owned by General Motors, they are both automobiles. Some models even share the same parts. They both cost a bunch bought new, they both lose a ton of value as you drive off the lot, but one holds its value better than the other.. When you need service, chances are one will treat you better than the other

Wyndham and Worldmark, Two timeshare companies that began independently, but both now fly the Wyndham flag. structured differently, using different currency (points vs credits). They own different resorts, but in some cases own different units in the same resort. One is stronger in the east, the other in the west, Both cost a ton new; both lose most of their value when your check clears, but one holds its value somewhat better than the other. As to the service you receive at the resorts...it depends on what you bought and what special sales incentives were included.

hope that helps
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Old February 22, 2011, 07:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suenmike32 View Post
Well...I think I have somewhat of a handle on this....but the reality of the whole post is....that Worldmark guests are "not quit treated the same" as Wyndham guests.
I don't want to...but I might take the presentation deal and ask my own questions.
Do you mean "guests" or "owners"? Guests here means friends or renters of the owners of the TS.

If you mean "owners" - are there different amenities at a blended resort - one side gets stuff (Worldmark) where the other gets nothing? Do not believe so unless you count the VIP newspaper. Remember, the front deck checks in both types of owners; room assignments are basicly computer generated at booking; the paper in the printers, I think, says Wyndham on the receipts.

Are the separately managed resorts different? - sure. After all a mountain or desert resort will be different in decor and amenities from a converted motel in FL.
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Old February 22, 2011, 07:21 PM   #14
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... Do not believe so unless you count the VIP newspaper. ...
The newspapers keep coming up in various treads. No one defends the poor newspapers. I like them.

Last edited by rrlongwell; February 22, 2011 at 07:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old February 22, 2011, 07:41 PM   #15
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The newspapers keep coming up in various treads. No one defends the poor newspapers. I like them.
I just got home from a Wyndham vacation resort stay. I read my neighbor's paper every day and returned it when I got the new paper the next morning. Bet they didn't even notice they was reading the news a day late. NOT!

The delivery of the newspaper in front of the door is perhaps the only outward sign to most guests - why didn't I get a paper in front of my door? Can't tell if the unit next door was booked using 50% from my unit. Won't figure out they got a free 'midweek clean & tidy'. Won't know if they got a free unit upgrade. But that paper is there in black & white in front of their door.
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Old February 22, 2011, 10:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suenmike32 View Post
Well...I think I have somewhat of a handle on this....but the reality of the whole post is....that Worldmark guests are "not quit treated the same" as Wyndham guests.
I don't want to...but I might take the presentation deal and ask my own questions.
Maybe you wish that you rented from a Wyndham owner instead of a Worldmark owner. Reality is that the Worldmark owner pays less MF, and therefore probably charged you less rent. Normally. But nothing is normal anymore.
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Old February 23, 2011, 05:53 AM   #17
suenmike32
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I wasn't positive who the original owner was with, however, I believe it is Worldmark. I picked up this week on "last minute rentals" at a very reasonable price. I have no complaints here...I was just confused because ...anytime that I asked a question my inquiry was met with question..."are you with "Wyndham or Worldmark? When I said Worldmark....the answer was usually "no".
We've been Marriott owners for several years and don't run into "blended or shared resorts".
I'm going to take Ron's advice and relent to a presentation...if for no other reason than I can't play golf today and they'll give me a hundred bucks to listen to them.
In reality I leave for 7 weeks of Marriott this Saturday and then I'll be in my own element. (USA Today and all).
Again, Ocean Walk is a nice spot, nice beach and the unit/building is very clean.
You are inches away from A1A,,so it's a bit noisy here, especially with all the bikers and local NASCAR fans, (sometimes it sounds like a dragstrip).
Ron, thanks again for the analogy..I've just never been exposed to it.
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Old February 23, 2011, 11:31 AM   #18
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Wyndham doesn't own Worldmark

One other difference: Wyndham is the developer and manager for Worldmark but does not own it. They have packed the Board with their people so they make every effort to confuse the issue, but Worldmark is owned by its owners, not Wyndham.
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Old February 23, 2011, 11:57 AM   #19
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One other difference: Wyndham is the developer and manager for Worldmark but does not own it. They have packed the Board with their people so they make every effort to confuse the issue, but Worldmark is owned by its owners, not Wyndham.
Like Worldmark, I understand that the old Fairfield Trust (now renamed to a Wyndham Name) has actual control of the properties assigned to it. Deeded owners with properties that were assigned to the trust are voting members. Not sure how the Access Trust works.
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Old February 23, 2011, 12:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
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One other difference: Wyndham is the developer and manager for Worldmark but does not own it. They have packed the Board with their people so they make every effort to confuse the issue, but Worldmark is owned by its owners, not Wyndham.
Wyndham doesn't OWN the Wyndham resorts either - they are the management for the owners just like they are for Worldmark. And yes, they have packed the Wyndham resort Boards with their people as well so in effect have full control over both systems. It isn't as it should be but that is the way it has turned out.

Actually most resorts (with DVC being one very obvious difference as are some or all Mexican and other foreign resorts) are not OWNED by the Developer/Management no matter what brand or name may be on it. They are in fact owned by the individuals that have purchased the 1/52nd slices or points that are used to split up ownership. It is a very common misconception that a group "X" (usually a developer) "owns" resort or system "Y" but in fact that is a rare case. Usually the individual buyers are the legal owners although entrenched developer management will do everything possible to hide that fact.
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Old February 23, 2011, 12:42 PM   #21
suenmike32
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Just returned from my presentation and am as confused now...as ever.
Our rep was new...and a very personable guy....but I knew more about timeshareing than he did.
I'm not going to get into it...but there is more contradictary information floating around regarding Wyndham & Worldmark than I care to dissect (on this board and in his office).
This is a nice place, the rep took us to the 4 BR unit and we almost flipped when we saw the space and amenities....none the less, we'll enjoy our stay here and move over to our simple Marriott weeks plan, and enjoy our two months in Florida every year.
There is way too much "blending" of information within the Wyndham/Worldmark system. I'm happy to stay where I am.
Thanks to all those that tried to help.
Mike
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Old February 23, 2011, 01:28 PM   #22
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Just returned from my presentation and am as confused now...as ever ...
Did they offer you anything interesting?
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Old February 23, 2011, 02:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by suenmike32 View Post
Just returned from my presentation and am as confused now...as ever.
Our rep was new...and a very personable guy....but I knew more about timeshareing than he did.
I'm not going to get into it...but there is more contradictary information floating around regarding Wyndham & Worldmark than I care to dissect (on this board and in his office).
This is a nice place, the rep took us to the 4 BR unit and we almost flipped when we saw the space and amenities....none the less, we'll enjoy our stay here and move over to our simple Marriott weeks plan, and enjoy our two months in Florida every year.
There is way too much "blending" of information within the Wyndham/Worldmark system. I'm happy to stay where I am.
Thanks to all those that tried to help.
Mike
It was the salesguy's job to confuse you into buying, by blending half-truths into whole lies. And it's no use trying to straighten them up - they just ignore you and continue with their spiel.
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Old February 23, 2011, 02:22 PM   #24
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It was the salesguy's job to confuse you into buying, by blending half-truths into whole lies. And it's no use trying to straighten them up - they just ignore you and continue with their spiel.
Very well put. I have learned almost nothing from the sales staff as MOST have never even read the Owners Directory - they are following very well rehearsed sales scripts, following the outlines as taught, and ignoring your questions with the "that will be answered later" or "that will be covered later".

Over the years, the lines do change somewhat - twists. But they ONLY get paid when you buy - money is their goal, not education on how or what the timeshare system is .
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Old February 24, 2011, 09:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
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And it's no use trying to straighten them up - they just ignore you and continue with their spiel.
You are correct, sir.

We have learned that trying to set'm straight only prolongs the spiel.

So now we just there in a state of disciplined self-restraint, not even rolling our eyeballs at the howlers & stretchers being slung, semi-nodding politely now & then before saying No Thanks at the moment of truth and (eventually) getting sent over to the freebies window.

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