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Old June 4, 2011, 09:25 PM   #1
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Club Wyndham Access

I know the one advantage (dubious value I know) of Club Wyndham access is the ARP at multiple resorts (for the limited Club Wyndham Access inventory) but is there another advantage?

Is a Club Wyndham Access contract based at one resort, or is it a blended ownership where you own rights to everything in the trust? I ask as it relates to maintenance fees and special assessments. If it is a blended ownership I assume that mf is an average of everything in the trust and if thats the case and one resort had a big mf increase, or special assessment, wouldnt the impact of that increase be spread over the entire trust.

Ive been waiting and watching for a San Francisco points contract because of the low mf. but if I was sure that Club Wyndham Access contracts were not based at a particular resort, and if I was sure the mf was an average of whats in the trust, I would buy one of them instead
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Old June 4, 2011, 09:28 PM   #2
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The true value of any system is the greater the number of resorts the greater the value. Although there may be some limited special inventory available to Club Wyndham members it is more than offset by the limited resorts & time they have/can assign. That flies in the face of wha you want from a closed system by taking just a tiny subset of use time & only a few resorts for more money! Don't do it.
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Old June 4, 2011, 09:47 PM   #3
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The true value of any system is the greater the number of resorts the greater the value. Although there may be some limited special inventory available to Club Wyndham members it is more than offset by the limited resorts & time they have/can assign. That flies in the face of wha you want from a closed system by taking just a tiny subset of use time & only a few resorts for more money! Don't do it.
Well stated.

Several of the resorts where I have attend HOA meetings, I learned the CWA was buying foreclosed deeds for $1 each from the HOA. Yes, good weeks do get foreclosed on, but my bet is low season weeks are abandoned in a higher percentages. Whether CWA is buying 'cherry-picked' weeks or not, I never got a clear answer. Only answer was the HOA had to SELL all the weeks to the CWA (to prevent 'cherry-picking' by current owners) and sold WHEN CWA said they need weeks. So the HOAs end up carrying the unowned weeks on their tab.
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Old June 4, 2011, 09:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ronparise View Post
I know the one advantage (dubious value I know) of Club Wyndham access is the ARP at multiple resorts (for the limited Club Wyndham Access inventory) but is there another advantage?

Is a Club Wyndham Access contract based at one resort, or is it a blended ownership where you own rights to everything in the trust? I ask as it relates to maintenance fees and special assessments. If it is a blended ownership I assume that mf is an average of everything in the trust and if thats the case and one resort had a big mf increase, or special assessment, wouldnt the impact of that increase be spread over the entire trust.

Ive been waiting and watching for a San Francisco points contract because of the low mf. but if I was sure that Club Wyndham Access contracts were not based at a particular resort, and if I was sure the mf was an average of whats in the trust, I would buy one of them instead
I believe that Club Wyndham Access deeds are not based at any resort, but are, as you suggest a common trust, averaging the maintenance fees across all in the trust. A word of caution, though, because ARP at any given resort can be extremely limited and, unlike a UDI, no one member has any guarantee that ARP points are available at any time. It is my understanding that if the allotted number of points in the trust for any given resort have been used in a given use year, no other ARP Club Wyndham Access reservations are available at that resort.
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Old June 4, 2011, 10:08 PM   #5
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The concept seemed to be to aggregate ownerships traded in on new retail purchases. Bundle that as a new type of ownership.

In reality, it seems the lesser quality weeks are included for the fixed week converted weeks and the MF's are correspondingly higher for Club Wyndham Access.

The ARP value seems of dubious value, since most of the resorts listed are easily got at the 10 mth mark. There are no published statistics for the very few resorts that ARP would be necessary, of the number of weeks available within the time periods.

A few years now since introduced and most knowledgeable owners would not consider one of these.
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Old June 4, 2011, 10:52 PM   #6
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You guys are telling me what I know. The ARP is of dubious value, and the trust seems to be a dumping ground for foreclosed weeks.

I dont care about arp and I dont care what weeks are in the trust. At the 10 month mark Points are points in my book

But what about mf and special assessments. If I own points based at a certain resort and that resort has a big increase in mf or a special assessment , Im screwed. or at the very least Im wishing I bought several small contracts in several different resorts, instead on the one big one that seemed like such a good deal

If however my points are based in a Club Access membership, and my "ownership" is spread over lots of resorts through that trust, wouldnt the impact of a special assessment at one resort be spread over the whole trust.

I understand that most have stayed away from Club Wyndham access for good reasons (arp is a joke, lots of junk in the trust, not a deeded ownership)

But if Im right, I like that a special assessment wont be a big issue and that maintenance fee increases probably wont be dramatic
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Old June 4, 2011, 11:07 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=basham;1119537] ... In reality, it seems the lesser quality weeks are included for the fixed week converted weeks and the MF's are correspondingly higher for Club Wyndham Access ... [QOUTE]

So the Sales Pitch for National Harbor went in the early days of selling it. They did not use the term lesser quality weeks, they used the term older resorts and they said that Wyndham was going to be raising the MF fees related to any property in the Access System over what is charged for other owners. Since then, Wyndham has undergone may changes and the selling emphisis has shifted to Access at least at some locations. I am assuming the Access owned inventory is significaty larger now. A number of people have suggested that Wyndham may be using Access to gain a greater share of voting power in POAs for the resorts or that Access may be limited to availabilty use that relates to their ownership interest in Wyndham Club Plus (aka the old Fairfield trust), at least as it relates to the ARP program. Therefore, I do not know if this is true. I cannot avoid a chuckle that National Harbor is now one of the resorts in the Access system, something the salespeople said would not happen. If I were a cynic, which I have frequently been accused of, I would believe that in the world of Wyndham Think, Access is destin to become the surving program at the expense of all earlier verisions of trusts and Resort POAs. From a practical point of view, as one of the hold outs on joining the Access program, I think it is absolutly great that Wyndham, out of the kindness of there hearts, is picking up forclosed properties and/or properties with defaulted manufacturing fees and having the Club Access people pay for them under the blended MF system.

The following information was extracted from an old on-line report. Appears to be last quarter of 1996 or 1997. Numbers 1 to 12 are probably the resorts that were mentioned by a Senior Wyndham official at the Patriot’s Place open house as the 12 original resorts. He used the term Legacy resorts in referring to the original resorts and he said that Patriots Place was number 11. I would suspect that ARP rights at these resorts are limited to the original week in the initial contract. If the speculation that Access is front loaded to older resorts, MF and special assessments could rise as these resorts continue to age and need additional rehab. To evaluate this properly you would need to see what inventory is actually owned by Club Access that they are responsible for MF on. I am not a club access owner. This information should be available to Club Access owners.

1. Fairfield Branson Branson, MO … 54 units …

2. Fairfield Myrtle Beach Myrtle Beach, SC … was built in 1989 in North Myrtle Beach … Westwinds …

- SeaWatch Plantation … The first building of the resort was completed in August
1996, and the entire first phase should be completed in 1999 …

- NOTE: Ocean Blvd and the Cottages have since joined this grouping and maybe Towers on the Grove as the newest addition. The posability that the Ocean Club or portions
of it may also join in the near future under the WAAM program.

3. Fairfield Bay Fairfield Bay, AR … 217 units …

4. Fairfield Flagstaff Flagstaff, AZ … provides 125 …

5. Fairfield Glade Fairfield Glade, TN … 358 units …

6. Harbortown Point Ventura, CA … has 57 units.

7. Fairfield Harbour New Bern, NC … 207 units …

8. Fairfield Mountains Lake Lure, NC--This resort offers 215 units …

9. Fairfield Ocean Ridge Edisto Island, SC--Edisto Island … has 154 units completed. …

10. Fairfield Plantation Villa Rica, GA … 80 units …

11. Fairfield Williamsburg Williamsburg, VA … 393 units completed and 22 units under construction …

- Kingsgate and Governor's Green apparently joined this group.

12. Fairfield Sapphire Valley Sapphire, NC … includes 194 units …

13. Fairfield Orlando at Cypress Palms Kissimmee, FL … Fairfield Orlando has 42 units completed and 12 units under construction

14. Fairfield Pagosa Pagosa Springs, CO … has 172 units completed and four units under construction …

15. Fairfield Nashville at Music City, USA Nashville, TN …had 15 units completed and 15 units under construction. …

Last edited by rrlongwell; June 5, 2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: update
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Old June 5, 2011, 06:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronparise View Post
You guys are telling me what I know. The ARP is of dubious value, and the trust seems to be a dumping ground for foreclosed weeks.

I dont care about arp and I dont care what weeks are in the trust. At the 10 month mark Points are points in my book

But what about mf and special assessments. If I own points based at a certain resort and that resort has a big increase in mf or a special assessment , Im screwed. or at the very least Im wishing I bought several small contracts in several different resorts, instead on the one big one that seemed like such a good deal

If however my points are based in a Club Access membership, and my "ownership" is spread over lots of resorts through that trust, wouldnt the impact of a special assessment at one resort be spread over the whole trust.

I understand that most have stayed away from Club Wyndham access for good reasons (arp is a joke, lots of junk in the trust, not a deeded ownership)

But if Im right, I like that a special assessment wont be a big issue and that maintenance fee increases probably wont be dramatic
At other "blended" fee type systems the fact that fees are spread over many resorts and averaged has been touted to be a way to "smooth" out or often lower fees vs a single resort. Unfortunately the reality is that if management at one is bad enough to require a SA then it happens at more then one location, the liited nuber again bites you are there aren't many to spread it over and the overhead these companies charge to run the system more than makes up for any potential savings thus the actual fees, after you have committed to buy in, are higher not lower. I do not know of any system with blended fees that are any lower than the fees fr a single resor in that system without the overhead. It is another ruse to sell a system that seems to have a basis but turns out to cost you more (surprised?). Add that to all the other negatives and you see why it is avoided by those that take the time to really study it.
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Old June 30, 2011, 10:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ronparise View Post
You guys are telling me what I know. The ARP is of dubious value, and the trust seems to be a dumping ground for foreclosed weeks.

I dont care about arp and I dont care what weeks are in the trust. At the 10 month mark Points are points in my book ...
The following is an extract from a Wyndham Vacation Resorts sanctioned page (it is in the fast facts pertaining to one of the resorts on Edisto in South Carolina. This is the first thing in writing is (according to my way of reading it) showing that the Wyndham Club Access and Wyndham Club Plus are, in fact, seperate availability pools even after the ARP period.

Fast Facts

Managed by Wyndham (except Egrets Pointe)
VIP Benefits Apply (except Egrets Pointe)
Elevators
Higher Demand in Summer
Higher Demand for Holidays/Special Events
Includes inventory in CLUB WYNDHAM® Access

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Old July 1, 2011, 12:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by rrlongwell View Post
The following is an extract from a Wyndham Vacation Resorts sanctioned page (it is in the fast facts pertaining to one of the resorts on Edisto in South Carolina. This is the first thing in writing is (according to my way of reading it) showing that the Wyndham Club Access and Wyndham Club Plus are, in fact, seperate availability pools even after the ARP period.Fast Facts

Managed by Wyndham (except Egrets Pointe)
VIP Benefits Apply (except Egrets Pointe)
Elevators
Higher Demand in Summer
Higher Demand for Holidays/Special Events
Includes inventory in CLUB WYNDHAM® Access
Longwell,

I bolded the part of your quote that I think misses the mark...I don't think it says what you are getting from your reading of it. The fast facts are nothing more than a summary of the same type of information that appears for every resort in the directory.

Some of the resorts that can be booked with Wyndham points are not managed by Wyndham. Those are always noted as such and VIP benefits do not apply there. All of the Worldmark resorts would be included in this category, as are miscellaneous others. With regards to Ocean Ridge, the resort your "fast facts" are referencing, it is a resort that encompasses multiple developments and phases. The only phase not managed or developed by Wyndham is the Egret's Point complex. The phrase "includes inventory in Club Wyndham Access" just means that there is some Ocean Ridge inventory in Club Wyndham Access, so if a Club Wyndham Access member wants to try and make an ARP reservation at Ocean Ridge, they are free to try. They may or may not get it. All of this information is standard on each resort's page both in the directory and online. In no way does it suggest the existence of separate inventory pools in the standard reservation window.

Don't sweat it.

Last edited by learnalot; July 1, 2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: typo
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Old July 1, 2011, 09:41 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=learnalot;1133507][QUOTE]

Thank you. Just for information on what may be coming changes. Wyndham Patriot's Place has gone to a tri-part system for inventory. Fixed Weeks, Club Wyndham Plus, and Club Wyndham Access are the three catagories that units are now being tracked by. I do not know how many other resorts are currently under the tri-part system.

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Old July 1, 2011, 11:07 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=rrlongwell;1133594][QUOTE=learnalot;1133507]
Quote:

Thank you.
You're welcome
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:13 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=rrlongwell;1133594][QUOTE=learnalot;1133507]
Quote:

Thank you. Just for information on what may be coming changes. Wyndham Patriot's Place has gone to a tri-part system for inventory. Fixed Weeks, Club Wyndham Plus, and Club Wyndham Access are the three catagories that units are now being tracked by. I do not know how many other resorts are currently under the tri-part system.
Club Wyndham Access is one of three subsets under Club Wyndham Plus. The other two are club Wyndham Select and Presidential Reserve

Select includes:

1) fixed weeks and floating weeks converted to points
2) UDI with attached symbolic points
3) presidential reserve

I would imagine that all of the older resorts have a mix of inventories. The question is: how solid are the existing walls between them. And will Wyndham build walls where none exist now

Its not new that unconverted weeks and points are separate inventories and that points owners may see different inventory and different availability

Also not new is that a regular points owner may not see a presidential unit, but a presidential owner does


For the present I believe that points associated with converted weeks, udi deeds, and club access points all draw from the same mixed bag of inventory during the standard reservation period. They even see some presidential reserve stuff...but they dont see fixed or floating weeks (unconverted)

Will Wyndham further separate the buckets of inventory during the standard reservation period and limit everyones choices? ..of course if they think it will either increase profits or encourage new retail sales...but I dont see it happening, at least not during the standard reservation window
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:29 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=ronparise;1133704] ... Its not new that unconverted weeks and points are separate inventories and that points owners may see different inventory and different availability ...

The above is true that points owners may see different inventory and different availability. This is true even for a single owner. I have had many occurances where I see a relatively limed availabilty so I am doing many searches then I have to enter there lettters to continue to prove I am not a computer. Then I sometimes get expanded availabilty. I attibute this to the different groups I have timeshares in. It apparently defaults to one (apparently Select) then when it goes back, it gives me a different one with better availability. I have then booked under the expanded availability if I see one that I like.

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Old July 1, 2011, 01:35 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=rrlongwell;1133709]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronparise View Post
... Its not new that unconverted weeks and points are separate inventories and that points owners may see different inventory and different availability ...

The above is ture that points owners may see different inventory and different availability. This is true even for a single owner. I have had many occurances where I see a relatively limed availabilty so I am doing many searches then I have to enter there lettters to continue to prove I am not a computer. Then I sometimes get expanded availabilty. I attibute this to the difference groups I have timeshares in. It apparently defaults to one (apparently Select) then when it goes back, it gives me a different one with better availability. I have then booked under the expanded availability if I see one that I like.
I dont think what you are seeing has to do with inventory or your specific ownership...I think it has to do with computer programing

Sometimes I am able to "expand" the inventory by changing my search from an exact check in date to "within 1 or 2 days" then changing it back to the exact date I want..voila, more choices
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:45 PM   #16
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I dont think what you are seeing has to do with inventory or your specific ownership...I think it has to do with computer programing
Agreed. Or, even the fact that cancellations are now "live" and appear immediately. You could just be seeing things that are being canceled elsewhere.

My understanding is the same as most others'. The difference between Access and Select is limited to what inventory is available at ARP. Essentially, an Access deed has all the inventory "in Access" as its ARP pool, rather than the (points-enrolled) units at a particular resort or resort group. As I understand it, the only pool of inventory that does not fully participate in the Standard Window is Presidential Reserve (and, of course, inventory that is not in the points system.)

Of course, this could all be wrong, but this interpretation seems to fit the language in the directory most closely.
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Old July 1, 2011, 03:46 PM   #17
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Could be just computer paths on which set of availability is showing. Also, something refered to as the Outrigger Program has its own availablity according to what I have seen referenced on line.

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Old July 1, 2011, 07:52 PM   #18
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Could be just computer paths on which set of availability is showing. Also, something refered to as the Outrigger Program has its own availablity according to what I have seen referenced on line.
Outrigger inventory is only available for members whose home resort is one of the Hawaii resorts. Honestly though, the points cost is atrociously high for the Outriggers. Not sure I would ever book them.
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Old July 12, 2011, 01:22 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=ronparise;1133704][QUOTE=rrlongwell;1133594][QUOTE=learnalot;1133507] ...

Club Wyndham Access is one of three subsets under Club Wyndham Plus. The other two are club Wyndham Select and Presidential Reserve

Select includes:

1) fixed weeks and floating weeks converted to points
2) UDI with attached symbolic points
3) presidential reserve ... [Quote]

Moved to top of list in response to a recent post.
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Old July 12, 2011, 02:02 AM   #20
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I know the one advantage (dubious value I know) of Club Wyndham access is the ARP at multiple resorts (for the limited Club Wyndham Access inventory) but is there another advantage? ...
Upon review of the threads that have something to do with Club Wyndham Access and what Wyndham told you recently that 25 percent of a resorts inventory would be a cap on the number of deeds the program would own, it would then stand to reason that the combined number of points between ARP, Standard, and Express windows in Club Wyndham Plus would be 25 percent if Club Wyndham Access reached the caps at all resorts. In another words, Club Wyndham Access owner's availabilty pool for Club Wyndham Plus would cap out once the number of points were used that are alloted to the deeds in their program. An interesting result to watch will be if Club Wyndham Access VIP discounts would be available if Club Wyndham Access has a good year and all but runs out of points before the express window is reached. My initial impression is that Club Wyndham Access owners are adding to a reduction in availability during the Summer Months and September and October for all VIP discounts. If this impresson is true, then it stands to reason that the Spring Season will show similar results and the January to May period for the Club Wyndham Plus VIP member discounts would increase.

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