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Old July 11, 2011, 07:56 PM   #1
iplay1515
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[ 2011 ] True Cost of Points From Wyndham [2011]

I was told by a Wyndham salesperson that the current price of Wyndham vacation points is $220.00 per 1000 points. However, discounts are given depending on a number of factors.

My questions is: what is the best price anyone has seen on new Wyndham points with the discount?

This discussion took place at Ocean Blvd. Myrtle Beach SC.

Last edited by Karen G; July 19, 2014 at 11:05 AM.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:16 PM   #2
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At least $150/k too much. Points on ebay are going for under $1000 for upwards of 500K and some contracts for $1 with closing costs and 2011 mf included. Whatever you do, don't by retail.

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Old July 11, 2011, 08:20 PM   #3
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Your question is an interesting academic exercise...I was offered a small points package at Bonnet Creek for just under $175/1000 incl closing costs

Instead I bought 575000 points on the secondary market for under $600 (incl closing and transfer) $1.05/100 points
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:22 PM   #4
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Wyndham sales reps are saying that eBay or any resale points can not be used to obtain status such as VIP, Gold, or Platinum. Therefore, they can't be used to make reservations 13 months out.

It appears that Wyndham is trying to restrict the resale market as much as they legally can.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:24 PM   #5
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Your question is an interesting academic exercise...I was offered a small points package at Bonnet Creek for just under $175/1000 incl closing costs

Instead I bought 575000 points on the secondary market for under $600 (incl closing and transfer) $1.05/100 points
Just wondering how low you can get the sales people to go by getting up and starting to walk out or using other tactics to make them come forward with their low ball price.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:27 PM   #6
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Wyndham sales reps are saying that eBay or any resale points can not be used to obtain status such as VIP, Gold, or Platinum. Therefore, they can't be used to make reservations 13 months out.
Making reservations 13 months out is called ARP and it has nothing to do with VIP status. It has to do with your home resort. Anyone, retail or resale owner, VIP or not, can book their own home resort 13 months out.

It is true that resale points cannot be used for any of the VIP levels. Most people on this discussion board have decided that the VIP benefits are not worth the retail cost.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:36 PM   #7
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Making reservations 13 months out is called ARP and it has nothing to do with VIP status. It has to do with your home resort. Anyone, retail or resale owner, VIP or not, can book their own home resort 13 months out.

It is true that resale points cannot be used for any of the VIP levels. Most people on this discussion board have decided that the VIP benefits are not worth the retail cost.
What are the top three benefits to having VIP status? I am new to this and trying to figure out where the truth really is.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:42 PM   #8
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What are the top three benefits to having VIP status? I am new to this and trying to figure out where the truth really is.
1. High salesman commission
2. Generous Gross Profit Margins for Wyndham
3. Cheap available resale contracts for the rest of us when you don't want it any more.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:47 PM   #9
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What are the top three benefits to having VIP status? I am new to this and trying to figure out where the truth really is.
Depending on VIP Level...50% off points needed for reservations at 60 days...15 complimentary Guest Certificates...Unlimited transaction credits....Unlimited Housekeeping credits...Request specific units...etc.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:53 PM   #10
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Depending on VIP Level...50% off points needed for reservations at 60 days...15 complimentary Guest Certificates...Unlimited transaction credits....Unlimited Housekeeping credits...Request specific units...etc.
You forgot the most important one, a daily delivered newspaper, assuming that the resort decides to provide it.
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Old July 11, 2011, 08:56 PM   #11
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I'm still curious about how low (price) anyone has been able to get Wyndham to go on retail points and how they did it.


Other than status or lack thereof, are there any other significant reasons not to buy points on the re-sale market?

Last edited by iplay1515; July 11, 2011 at 08:58 PM.
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:03 PM   #12
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Other than status or lack thereof, are there any other significant reasons not to buy points on the re-sale market?
IMO, NOTHING is worth the kind of prices they try to sell things retail...but if you like to burn money and you have thousands and thousands of dollar you want to throw away the VIP Benefits aren't a bad thing
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:12 PM   #13
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IMO, NOTHING is worth the kind of prices they try to sell things retail...but if you like to burn money and you have thousands and thousands of dollar you want to throw away the VIP Benefits aren't a bad thing
The Wyndham sales group certainly try their best to convince you that re-sale point are next to worthless. It also appears that Wyndham Corporate would like to restrict the resale points as much as possible.

My respect for used car salesmen just went up a few notches.
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:18 PM   #14
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The Wyndham sales group certainly try their best to convince you that re-sale point are next to worthless.
And that you.we are so stupid to pay full price today for something that is worthless tomorrow

My respect for the oldest profession . . . . just went up
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Old July 11, 2011, 09:32 PM   #15
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IMO, NOTHING is worth the kind of prices they try to sell things retail...but if you like to burn money and you have thousands and thousands of dollar you want to throw away the VIP Benefits aren't a bad thing
$148 dollars per thousand at Smokey Mountain.

$160 dollar per thousand at Towers on the Grove with a Sands Ocean Club week (week 38 I believe) that was thrown in for free then PICed as part of the Sales Paperwork. The Sands contract was an additional 105,000 points making the package deal at .071 cents per 1000, if I did the math right (do not count on it). The Towers on the Grove is a deeded property (UDI) and not Access. Additionally, part of the package was $89 dollars to convert a fixed week at Westwinds. If this is counted that would be an additional 154,000 points.

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Old July 18, 2011, 08:35 AM   #16
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Depending on VIP Level...50% off points needed for reservations at 60 days...15 complimentary Guest Certificates...Unlimited transaction credits....Unlimited Housekeeping credits...Request specific units...etc.
By no means will everyone check avail as often as I do nor do most people have the flexibility to travel that my wife and I enjoy but for those who do I think one of the top benefits is the upgrade to the next available highest unit
So far this year I have had 17 less than 1 week get aways all at 65% of the point value and upgraded about 90 percent of my reservations that have included a 35% discounted 1br at National Harbor upgraded to a 4br Presidential unit.

This summer two 3br's upgraded from 1brís at Gov Green and a studio upgraded to a 2br presidential at Panama City. By watching the last minute cancelations at National Harbor around the 4th of July I snagged a 3br for a discounted 1br for the 3rd and 4th of July.

Yes the benefit can go away any day and I doubt that most people will work as hard as I do to dig in and get these things but from speaking to others as I travel I have encountered others that do.

Most of the time with married couples "The nerd" which is me in my marriage is the one that enjoys figuring out and taking the time to work the system. The "free spirit" which is my wife enjoys the ride by helping to choose destinations, however she does not know how to get deals on the Wyndham site or stay on top of the changes and "press the envelope" to stay on top. When I meet people while traveling the Wyndham resorts I fine one partner in the marriage knows everything I do and the other knows nothing and does not want to.

This is not a product for a ďfree spiritĒ who just wants a fun ride without the work of fully understanding the product better than the sales person and pressing the envelop to figure out how to get great deals Ö

Most often I am reluctant to chime in when others are warning about VIP benefits because I really don't think most new buyers will ever do what it takes to make it pay and of course the rules can change at any time. I also rarely hear about the upgrades that likely only the savviest VIPís are taking advantage of and rarely talk about, I should probably keep my mouth shut too.

One thing that keeps me sober is thinking about those who purchased Wyndham points expecting to get 2brís from their 28K RCI deposits which no longer works. Like the 28K upgrades that went away for RCI deposits made after Jan 11 the huge upgrades and discounts that I enjoy can go away too. But for now they are great and my family is enjoying to the max!

I hope I balanced the benefits with the risk well enough for someone to make a well informed decision during their hopefully extensive research.
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Old July 18, 2011, 09:09 AM   #17
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VIP benefits change is an important part of this , no guarantee of what they will be tomorrow.


Quote:
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.........One thing that keeps me sober is thinking about those who purchased Wyndham points expecting to get 2brís from their 28K RCI deposits which no longer works. Like the 28K upgrades that went away for RCI deposits made after Jan 11 the huge upgrades and discounts that I enjoy can go away too. But for now they are great and my family is enjoying to the max!.....
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Old July 18, 2011, 10:09 AM   #18
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$148 dollars per thousand at Smokey Mountain.
Excellent! I saved $72,000 buying resale!
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Old July 18, 2011, 11:14 AM   #19
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Excellent! I saved $72,000 buying resale!
Here are the actual numbers for my Summer reservations, all were VIP Discount some included the upgrades. If a calendar is checked, one might notice these include weekends. I will stay with the facts as related to me for my VIP Summer use this year. From strictly a financial point of view (ignore the subjective value of the Summer bookings), I will stay with the facts as they relate to my Summer VIP usage this year (all my reservations for the Summer months were through the VIP program). I will let the reader calculate my costs per thousand points used, my average percent discount, and if this is a typical example, the number of payback months/years need to make the continuing cost savings worth the initial investment. I would suggest this analysis be used in evaluating any given Wyndham New Purchase Offer. Most will not pass the muster. On a case by case basis, some might.

6- 3-2011 2 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Wyndham Skyline Tower
32,000 91,000
6-17-2011 2 nights 1 Bedroom deluxe Skyline Tower
41,000 82,000
7-1-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom B side Wyndham Patriots Place
18,500 82,000 upgraded to 2 bedroom lock-off
7-15-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom deluxe Old town Alexandria
41,000 82,000
7-22-2011 2 nights 2 Bdrm Pres Res Suite
32,000 82,000
8-5-2011 2 nights 2 Bdrm Pres Res Suite Wyndham Vacation Resorts at National Harbor
44,500 123,000
8-10-2011 2 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Smokey Mountain
20,000 40,000 see below is a split reservation
8-12-2011 3 nights 3 bedroom deluxe Smokey Mountain
43,000 91,000 see above is a split reservation
8-26-2011 6 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Grand Desert
58,500 179,000
8-26-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom Suite Skyline Tower
32,000 64,000
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Old July 18, 2011, 11:23 AM   #20
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8-26-2011 6 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Grand Desert
58,500 179,000
you know how I feel about VIP
how did you get such a large discount? was it cause you got the free room upgrade also?
Also as a VIP are you able to combine the discouints available to everyone (resort specials) with your VIP discount?
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Old July 18, 2011, 11:55 AM   #21
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Here are the actual numbers for my Summer reservations, all were VIP Discount some included the upgrades. If a calendar is checked, one might notice these include weekends. I will stay with the facts as related to me for my VIP Summer use this year. From strictly a financial point of view (ignore the subjective value of the Summer bookings), I will stay with the facts as they relate to my Summer VIP usage this year (all my reservations for the Summer months were through the VIP program). I will let the reader calculate my costs per thousand points used, my average percent discount, and if this is a typical example, the number of payback months/years need to make the continuing cost savings worth the initial investment. I would suggest this analysis be used in evaluating any given Wyndham New Purchase Offer. Most will not pass the muster. On a case by case basis, some might.

6- 3-2011 2 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Wyndham Skyline Tower
32,000 91,000
6-17-2011 2 nights 1 Bedroom deluxe Skyline Tower
41,000 82,000
7-1-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom B side Wyndham Patriots Place
18,500 82,000 upgraded to 2 bedroom lock-off
7-15-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom deluxe Old town Alexandria
41,000 82,000
7-22-2011 2 nights 2 Bdrm Pres Res Suite
32,000 82,000
8-5-2011 2 nights 2 Bdrm Pres Res Suite Wyndham Vacation Resorts at National Harbor
44,500 123,000
8-10-2011 2 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Smokey Mountain
20,000 40,000 see below is a split reservation
8-12-2011 3 nights 3 bedroom deluxe Smokey Mountain
43,000 91,000 see above is a split reservation
8-26-2011 6 nights 2 bedroom deluxe Grand Desert
58,500 179,000
8-26-2011 2 nights 1 bedroom Suite Skyline Tower
32,000 64,000
Great, you're getting very good value for your points. But what did you PAY for your points?

I paid just under $2,000 for 501,000 points, including all costs. Not quite as good as Ron got, but I'm happy with it.
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Old July 18, 2011, 12:20 PM   #22
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Great, you're getting very good value for your points. But what did you PAY for your points?

I paid just under $2,000 for 501,000 points, including all costs. Not quite as good as Ron got, but I'm happy with it.
Cannot disclose that because I do not know (really). A significant portion I gained control of under the Wyndham rules for succession and I did not pay much (Myrtle Beach times 3 and one at Smokey Mountains) the public record shows $1,250 dollars (not a real price because it was an agreement between some of the heirs on how to distribute the Wyndham Timeshare Asests, neither estate wanted them because of maintance fees and the cost of getting rid of them, I overpaid for them to stop disagreements between heirs).

$700 dollars for a fixed week bought through Wyndham in Myrtle Beach.

The Towers on the Grove price was already posted in another thread, I am rounding numbers from memory, I will defer to my earlier post. 13,xxx for 84,000 points at Towers on the Grove, a free fixed week at the Sands Ocean Club tossed in which was then PICed in. $89 dollars for the conversion of the fixed week to points at Westwinds, three free RCI weeks plus bonus developer points. The Smokey Mountain purchase and the Towers on Grove agreements contain written additions pertaining to VIP representations made during the sales pitches.

$12,800 for the 2nd Smokey Mountain one. Included two free RCI weeks (if I remember right) and bonus developer points.

My decision to buy retail was made for non-finacial reasons that I believe resulted in my receiving a lot more than the costs of aquisions made due to Estate impacts. Using my VIP discounts and upgrades places my average cost per thousand at or well below the $4 or $5 per thousand price talked of in other threads.

That is why I have suggested in other threads that an alternative to direct purchase from Wyndham a direct lease of a Plantium or Gold VIP account from a seller may be a viable alternate. Now, in light of the current members directory wording pertaining to limitations on commericial use, I am not sure this is even viable. If Wyndham starts enforcing this provision, than rentals other than to family and friends sould be done with other companies or Fixed Week, Converted Weeks, or UDI deeds if part of the Wyndham system. I think Ron was on the right tract on his intrepretation of this issue.

Last edited by rrlongwell; July 18, 2011 at 12:25 PM.
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Old July 18, 2011, 12:30 PM   #23
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Ok

lets assume that you VIP platinun and you make half of your reservations within 60 days of check in Your 1 million points will buy the equivalent of 1.5million.

I will further assume that you paid $0.15 per point or $150000 for your points and your mf is $5/1000

To match your level of benefit I will have to own 1.5 million points. Lets assume I have to piece this together with three 500000 contracts and they cost me $5000 each. (total of $15000), and my mf is also $5/1000 points

so lets compare...
you have spent $150,000. I spent $15,000
your mf will be $5000 a year, my mf $7500

so I am spending $2500 more a year than you are for mf ...but you spent $135,000 more up front. That looks like about a 50 year break even point. My kids dont want this stuff and Ill be dead before I spend as much as you have

I didnt consider the upgrades to larger units...We could argue about this, but I dont think its worth anything (I dont see the value in having an extra bedroom that no one is using)

Dont get me wrong, I would love to have the VIP benefits. I think they have real value, but its not worth it financially
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Old July 18, 2011, 12:37 PM   #24
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The last serious analysis I saw for a PlatVIP-qualified vs. resale points had a pretty simple bottom line. If *everything* broke *just right*---you get full discounts on every single reservation, including the size upgrade; you require many transactions and guest certificates; you have PIC'd the maximum number of el-cheapo resale weeks; you negotiated hard (possibly with an equity swap) on your purchase price---then the qualified purchase arguably breaks even after about 10 years, and could generate a return after that.

The 10 year number is probably longer by now; that was 2-3 years ago, and since then resale prices have dropped further, and the cost to fully qualify an account has gone up. Worse, the break-even scenario has a lot of "ifs", in my book. A low $/K resale deed is a much simpler value proposition, and so exposes you to much less risk.
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Old July 18, 2011, 12:52 PM   #25
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Ok

lets assume that you VIP platinun and you make half of your reservations within 60 days of check in Your 1 million points will buy the equivalent of 1.5million.

I will further assume that you paid $0.15 per point or $150000 for your points and your mf is $5/1000

To match your level of benefit I will have to own 1.5 million points. Lets assume I have to piece this together with three 500000 contracts and they cost me $5000 each. (total of $15000), and my mf is also $5/1000 points

so lets compare...
you have spent $150,000. I spent $15,000
your mf will be $5000 a year, my mf $7500

so I am spending $2500 more a year than you are for mf ...but you spent $135,000 more up front. That looks like about a 50 year break even point. My kids dont want this stuff and Ill be dead before I spend as much as you have

I didnt consider the upgrades to larger units...We could argue about this, but I dont think its worth anything (I dont see the value in having an extra bedroom that no one is using)

Dont get me wrong, I would love to have the VIP benefits. I think they have real value, but its not worth it financially
Mine is a situation that is probably limited to estate situations. To correct your assumtions. I am using, for all practical purposes, all of my points in the discount window. I agree, the upgrades, unless renting them, are primarily a subjective issue.

Last checked, my blended MF fees across the Wyndham timeshare holdings was about .006 per point or $6.00 per thousand (I have a bunch of Myrtle Beach timeshares that ups the average).

My VIP usage rate would be in excess of 2 million points (I am just under 1 million 100 points not counting bonus points.

I have spent around $36,000 dollars. You are dreaming if you think I would spend $150,000 on timeshares, Wyndham or otherwise.
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