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Is this the first DC points resale listing on ebay?

windje2000

windje2000

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I don't believe certain of the representations made in the description are accurate.

Take a look - LINK


EDITED TO ADD NEW REVISED LISTING LINK
 
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windje2000 said:
I don't believe certain of the representations made in the description are accurate.

Take a look - LINK
Click to expand...

I think it may be. It will be a good test to see what they sell for. No reserve bidding starting at $1. Though there are several errors in the ad. MF would be $600 on 1500 points, not $799. Also they indicate that 1400 bonus points are available, though I am not sure that those will be able to be transferred with ownership since they are PlusPoints. You do get 1500 2011 points included and they are not asking for reimbursement of MFs.

We still don't know if Marriott has created any type of process to allow these to be transferred even if one is the winning bidder. You may get a deed, but that may be all. They did disclose ROFR, but didn't disclose a ROFR fee.
 
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dioxide45 said:
I think it may be. It will be a good test to see what they sell for. No reserve bidding starting at $1. Though there are several errors in the ad. MF would be $600 on 1500 points, not $799. Also they indicate that 1400 bonus points are available, though I am not sure that those will be able to be transferred with ownership since they are PlusPoints. You do get 1500 2011 points included and they are not asking for reimbursement of MFs.

We still don't know if Marriott has created any type of process to allow these to be transferred even if one is the winning bidder. You may get a deed, but that may be all. They did disclose ROFR, but didn't disclose a ROFR fee.
Click to expand...

From camachinist's post at this LINK, which refers to the document in your earlier post

Owners of our points-based products who do not purchase from us do not have access to the internal exchange component of the product and therefore would only be able to use the inventory that underlies the vacation ownership interests they purchased.
Click to expand...

This quote is from the SEC filing for SPINCO
 
Interesting...I e-mailed the owner asking about that. It will be interesting to see his/her response.
 
I saw it too and sent an email to the owner and asked about transfer fees, how they came up with maintnenace fees and the bonus points.
 
What is meant by "the inventory that underlies the vacation ownership interests they purchased"? I didn't realize the points were associated with any specific inventory. Would the buyer actually be able to reserve anything?
 
Stefa said:
What is meant by "the inventory that underlies the vacation ownership interests they purchased"? I didn't realize the points were associated with any specific inventory. Would the buyer actually be able to reserve anything?
Click to expand...

A points owner has an equity interest in the land trust. The land trust in turn owns a bunch of weeks. So if you own points, you have an indirect ownership interest in the weeks owned by the trust.

The buyer of these points would be able to reserve available inventory (whatever remains at 60 days out if my understanding of the documents is correct) in the land trust.

The buyer would not be permitted to join the DC.
 
Are you kidding me?? Something smells here. Who would pay at a min $13800 and turn around and auction a year later? Just doesn't make sense.
 
Before you sign the dotted line, would Marriott tell you where you really own? This would be very important in case you have to sell early and the next buyer can only make reservations at that resort.

Isn't this what Wyndham was doing as you toured a resort on the coast of Oregon but the underlying deed was somewhere in the middle of the country and the oceanfront resorts are hard to visit because they are so popular.

Marriott made it harder to visit on the coast because of the high requirement of points so the buyer was aware of it before he bought but are they aware of the problems with selling points unless you are told where the points are coming from so you know what your chances are for selling your points?

We bought a floating week once but we made them change the underlying week to a week that was acceptable to us or we wouldn't buy.

If we were buying points, we would make sure that the points are coming from a resort that would be in high demand or where we wouldn't mind owning at in reality.

This quote is from the SEC filing for SPINCO that Pat posted earlier.

Quote:
Owners of our points-based products who do not purchase from us do not have access to the internal exchange component of the product and therefore would only be able to use the inventory that underlies the vacation ownership interests they purchased.
 
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RBERR1 said:
I saw it too and sent an email to the owner and asked about transfer fees, how they came up with maintnenace fees and the bonus points.
Click to expand...

Here is the response I got to my question:
Hi,

We just found out that the bonus points will not transfer, but the regular points will. The maintenance fee is $.40 per point, totalling $600, the other $165 (not $199 as we initially stated) is for the annual club dues. The transfer fee is $150 and is paid by the winning bidder after the auction. We have ended the auction and have re-listed it with the correct information. The auction will start tonight; the eBay item number will be #260821374578.

Thank you,
Justin
 
I go the same response, and e-mailed him back a copy of the usage restrictions quoted above. Very interesting....
 
iconnections said:
Before you sign the dotted line, would Marriott tell you where you really own? This would be very important in case you have to sell early and the next buyer can only make reservations at that resort.

Isn't this what Wyndham was doing as you toured a resort on the coast of Oregon but the underlying deed was somewhere in the middle of the country and the oceanfront resorts are hard to visit because they are so popular.

Marriott made it harder to visit on the coast because of the high requirement of points so the buyer was aware of it before he bought but are they aware of the problems with selling points unless you are told where the points are coming from so you know what your chances are for selling your points?

We bought a floating week once but we made them change the underlying week to a week that was acceptable to us or we wouldn't buy.

If we were buying points, we would make sure that the points are coming from a resort that would be in high demand or where we wouldn't mind owning at in reality.

This quote is from the SEC filing for SPINCO that Pat posted earlier.

Quote:
Owners of our points-based products who do not purchase from us do not have access to the internal exchange component of the product and therefore would only be able to use the inventory that underlies the vacation ownership interests they purchased.
Click to expand...

All good points, Emmy, except for the first question that I bolded. This is an external resale - the buyer needs to know what s/he's bidding on but Marriott isn't responsible for making sure all the usage rules are understood before the purchase. If you're bidding on a Week on eBay you can call Marriott to confirm the deed info (for example, 2BR, Gold season, oceanside view, every-other-year usage, etc...) but Marriott reps don't explain all the usage technicalities of prospective external Weeks purchases. With a DC Points external purchase I'd expect them to confirm how many and associated fees, but not all the rules about using them. Buyer beware comes into play, doesn't it? Hopefully the seller is at least giving prospective buyers a chance to read the governing docs, but if TUG history is any indication, that has never been something routinely done by sellers of Weeks. So why should it be expected with DC Points?
 
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SueDonJ said:
All good points, Emmy, except for the first question that I bolded. This is an external resale - the buyer needs to know what s/he's bidding on but Marriott isn't responsible for making sure all the usage rules are understood before the purchase. If you're bidding on a Week on eBay you can call Marriott to confirm the deed info (for example, 2BR, Gold season, oceanside view, every-other-year usage, etc...) but Marriott reps don't explain all the usage technicalities of prospective external Weeks purchases. With a DC Points external purchase I'd expect them to confirm how many and associated fees, but not all the rules about using them. Buyer beware comes into play, doesn't it? Hopefully the seller is at least giving prospective buyers a chance to read the governing docs, but if TUG history is any indication, that has never been something routinely done by sellers of Weeks. So why should it be expected with DC Points?
Click to expand...


The problem is that Marriott simply won't respond with clear answers to standard questions anyone would have regarding external transfers, among other things.

Is Marriott not responsible for answering direct questions from customers and prospective customers?

I think it is, and its utter failure to do so is a clear failing on the part of Marriott.
 
windje2000 said:
The problem is that Marriott simply won't respond with clear answers to standard questions anyone would have regarding external transfers, among other things.

Is Marriott not responsible for answering direct questions from customers and prospective customers?

I think it is, and its utter failure to do so is a clear failing on the part of Marriott.
Click to expand...

I agree, if Marriott is selling something then Marriott should have responsibility for clearly explaining all facets of the product. But the fact is, as we've all learned through the years of Marriott being in the Weeks timeshare business, that Buyer Beware comes into play because the only legal requirement Marriott is held to, is to allow buyers a rescission period once they've had an opportunity to review the governing docs. There were umpteen posts on TUG long before the DC was introduced that said some variation of, "if a salesman's lips are moving HE'S LYING!!" As much as we'd like things to be different now that a new product is on the scene, are we really all that surprised that some reps are still not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do agree, it's a failing when Marriott doesn't educate new purchasers, but it's nothing new.

In this case, though, of an external resale of DC Points on eBay, I don't see how or why Marriott is expected to be a party to this transaction before an agreement is reached between the Seller and Buyer. Marriott isn't the Seller here and there is no rescission protection to which Marriott has to comply. Marriott has never routinely issued copies of the governing docs in order to educate prospective buyers of Weeks on the external market prior to the sale - what leads to the expectation that they should with DC Points? I just don't get it. After a Week is sold on the external resale market then the new owner can ask Owner Services for a copy of the docs; they may have to pay for it but they'll be issued a copy of those 5-1/2x8" paperback POS books. I'd expect that after a DC Points external sale the same request can be made by the new owner. But before an external sale of DC Points? IMO Marriott doesn't have any more legal obligations to educate buyers than they do for external Weeks sales.
 
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So, are we assuming that the entire 1500 points has a small underlying interest at one resort only, locking the resale points usage into that one resort, and not an even smaller underlying interest of all the DC resorts, thereby granting availability to all resorts?

If so, why are we assuming this?
 
SueDonJ said:
I agree, if Marriott is selling something then Marriott should have responsibility for clearly explaining all facets of the product. But the fact is, as we've all learned through the years of Marriott being in the Weeks timeshare business, that Buyer Beware comes into play because the only legal requirement Marriott is held to, is to allow buyers a rescission period once they've had an opportunity to review the governing docs. There were umpteen posts on TUG long before the DC was introduced that said some variation of, "if a salesman's lips are moving HE'S LYING!!" As much as we'd like things to be different now that a new product is on the scene, are we really all that surprised that some reps are still not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do agree, it's a failing when Marriott doesn't educate new purchasers, but it's nothing new.

In this case, though, of an external resale of DC Points on eBay, I don't see how or why Marriott is expected to be a party to this transaction before an agreement is reached between the Seller and Buyer. Marriott isn't the Seller here and there is no rescission protection to which Marriott has to comply. Marriott has never routinely issued copies of the governing docs in order to educate prospective buyers of Weeks on the external market prior to the sale - what leads to the expectation that they should with DC Points? I just don't get it. After a Week is sold on the external resale market then the new owner can ask Owner Services for a copy of the docs; they may have to pay for it but they'll be issued a copy of those 5-1/2x8" paperback POS books. I'd expect that after a DC Points external sale the same request can be made by the new owner. But before an external sale of DC Points? IMO Marriott doesn't have any more legal obligations to educate buyers than they do for external Weeks sales.
Click to expand...

If you don't think Marriott should answer a question (from anyone) about its product -- then you and I will simply disagree.

We're all owners here.

We're all stumbling around in the dark about this infernal program and they won't answer our questions either.

Buyer beware? That's a great slogan for the new Marriott. Absolutely perfect.
 
windje2000 said:
If you don't think Marriott should answer a question (from anyone) about its product -- then you and I will simply disagree.

We're all owners here.

We're all stumbling around in the dark about this infernal program and they won't answer our questions either.

Buyer beware? That's a great slogan for the new Marriott. Absolutely perfect.
Click to expand...

Of course it's not a good slogan at all for any company, but it's the norm for most. That's why consumer protection agencies exist. And if TUG posts over the years any indication, then it's been Marriott's way for a good number of years now.
 
SueDonJ said:
Of course it's not a good slogan at all for any company, but it's the norm for most. That's why consumer protection agencies exist. And if TUG posts over the years any indication, then it's been Marriott's way for a good number of years now.
Click to expand...

Jails exist because criminal exist - but the existence of jails doesn't excuse being a criminal.

John Chase's signature used to say it best of all.

When you want the worst we're the best. The new Marriott DC
 
windje2000 said:
If you don't think Marriott should answer a question (from anyone) about its product -- then you and I will simply disagree.

We're all owners here.

We're all stumbling around in the dark about this infernal program and they won't answer our questions either.

Buyer beware? That's a great slogan for the new Marriott. Absolutely perfect.
Click to expand...

You know what really surprises me about this particular eBay listing and the way it's being talked about on TUG? It appears to be from a postcard company rather than an individual owner, right? If this was a Weeks sale then TUGgers would BLAST the company to kingdom come for having incorrect info in the ad but they wouldn't be making demands that Marriott explain the rules - they'd say the postcard company should know better or should at least check with the owner so the ad could be corrected. At the same time TUGgers would do everything they could to buy the Week at the absolute lowest price possible, then they'd come to TUG and gloat about their steal of a deal, after which all kinds of folks would pat them on their back for taking advantage of one of those evil postcard companies.

But here it's Marriott being blasted for the incorrect/incomplete ad info. :shrug:

Emmy's question - "... would Marriott tell you where you really own?" - is easily answered. You would own an interest in the Trust which is comprised of this inventory, and your ability to make a reservation at any of those properties is dependent upon the usage rules stipulated in the related governing docs.

Beyond that, all the questions about when you can reserve, how much it costs for ROFR, how much it costs to transfer, whether you can use the DC Exchange Company or II, etc ...?? Those are answers the SELLER should try to obtain just in case the buyer asks them. None of us knows if the seller, or the company who is transacting the sale for him/her, asked Marriott anything before the ad went up. It wouldn't exactly surprise me to find that a postcard company deliberately withheld info in order to make the product look better than it is - what's surprising is that TUGgers now are so quick to blame Marriott for the misleading ad instead of putting the responsibility where it has always rested in the cases of external resales, on the Seller.
 
RBERR1 said:
Here is the response I got to my question:
Hi,

We just found out that the bonus points will not transfer, but the regular points will. The maintenance fee is $.40 per point, totalling $600, the other $165 (not $199 as we initially stated) is for the annual club dues. The transfer fee is $150 and is paid by the winning bidder after the auction. We have ended the auction and have re-listed it with the correct information. The auction will start tonight; the eBay item number will be #260821374578.

Thank you,
Justin
Click to expand...

Club dues? What assurance do you have that they will let you join the DClub? SPINCO's SEC filing strongly suggests they will not.

Will they allow you to rescind the purchase if you cannot join DC and enjoy all the benefits the original purchaser enjoyed?
 
SueDonJ said:
But here it's Marriott being blasted for the incorrect/incomplete ad info. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Wrong again - nobody in this thread has blasted Marriott about this ad.
 
windje2000 said:
Jails exist because criminal exist - but the existence of jails doesn't excuse being a criminal. ...
Click to expand...

That wasn't my point. :rolleyes: All the years that folks complained on TUG that they were misled by Marriott reps, I've never said that Marriott should be excused for misleading them. I agree with everyone who says that Marriott could do a lot more by way of education to generate good will among its customer base. But in a consumer-driven business "buyer beware" IS the norm, and the reason consumer protection agencies exist is to help folks who probably were not wary enough when making a purchase.
 
SueDonJ said:
That wasn't my point. :rolleyes: All the years that folks complained on TUG that they were misled by Marriott reps, I've never said that Marriott should be excused for misleading them. I agree with everyone who says that Marriott could do a lot more by way of education to generate good will among its customer base. But in a consumer-driven business "buyer beware" IS the norm, and the reason consumer protection agencies exist is to help folks who probably were not wary enough when making a purchase.
Click to expand...

In a consumer driven business -- "buyer beware" IS the norm?????????

In consumer driven businesses, companies that LOVE THEIR CUSTOMERS win.

Every time.
 
windje2000 said:
The problem is that Marriott simply won't respond with clear answers to standard questions anyone would have regarding external transfers, among other things.

Is Marriott not responsible for answering direct questions from customers and prospective customers?

I think it is, and its utter failure to do so is a clear failing on the part of Marriott.
Click to expand...

windje2000 said:
If you don't think Marriott should answer a question (from anyone) about its product -- then you and I will simply disagree.

We're all owners here.

We're all stumbling around in the dark about this infernal program and they won't answer our questions either.

Buyer beware? That's a great slogan for the new Marriott. Absolutely perfect.
Click to expand...

windje2000 said:
Jails exist because criminal exist - but the existence of jails doesn't excuse being a criminal.

John Chase's signature used to say it best of all.

When you want the worst we're the best. The new Marriott DC
Click to expand...

windje2000 said:
Wrong again - nobody in this thread has blasted Marriott about this ad.
Click to expand...

Well if you're not blasting Marriott in this thread then I don't know what you would consider blasting at all! I suppose technically you're not blasting Marriott about this ad, but if you hadn't found the ad on eBay and posted it here then you wouldn't have been able to take this opportunity to blast Marriott for all the questions generated by the ad. Questions the SELLER should have known how to answer, before the ad was placed.
 
SueDonJ said:
Well if you're not blasting Marriott in this thread then I don't know what you would consider blasting at all! I suppose technically you're not blasting Marriott about this ad, but if you hadn't found the ad on eBay and posted it here then you wouldn't have been able to take this opportunity to blast Marriott for all the questions generated by the ad. Questions the SELLER should have known how to answer, before the ad was placed.
Click to expand...

Nobody but Marriott can answer these questions.

They choose not to. Their choice. Actions have consequences.

What will you accuse me of next - buying 1500 DC points and listing them on ebay just so I could have the opportunity to blast Marriott on this thread?
 
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