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[2012] Fairness on reviews of TS locations?

GregGH

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I get to the member reviews a couple of times a year ... when I get curious.

Noticed a couple of new reviews for my home resort of Aviara ... and especially the one with a score or 4 ... four out of 10 ... really ... ? It was written by ..nbraney but I can't search this name for other posts they may have written .... hmm ....

I realize scores are akin to figure skating judges - throw out the Hi & the Low -- and you get a fair idea ... but .... I still think of what a score of 'four' would be like at other resorts .... one harsh judge here ... eh?

Here is their quote ( with my comments in red )
"We were expecting a very nice resort according to reviews on this site. We stayed for a week in the Osprey Building in a studio unit. There are no elevators, so since we are located upstairs, we have to walk up 18 stairs every day. In addition, there is limited parking, so in order to get to the nearest pool, we have to walk up and down 46 steps down a hill. The stairway is not very well kept up, with pine straw and sand covering it in some places, which if wet could cause a fall.

Reply - Osprey is at the 'highest point in the complex - we stayed they last year and loved the location. Yes -the stairs mentioned can get covered by pine needles (since the trees are abundant) - but they usually are sweep on a regular basis ( as is everything else at Aviara ) and a quick call to the front desk gets that done within an hour ... the writer doesn't mention you can walk down the sidewalk to the Summit pool .. but then they seem to want to 'drive' everywhere were... GH

The unit itself is average for a studio. The bed is comfortable with nice linens. We rearranged the furniture upon arrival because the sofa is on the same wall as the tv, so the only place to watch tv is from the bed. We moved the sofa to the same side as the bed. I would expect the Four Seasons to have a separate shower and tub even in a studio, but not the case. We did expect limited cooking facilities, although we have stayed in a studio that had two burners. There is a microwave, toaster, coffee maker, blender and electric tea maker, which seems a waste. You can easily make tea in the microwave. The resort provides free "slow" internet. If you want some speed, you have to pay $6.00 per day. Most timeshares like Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton provide high speed wifi at no charge, so I felt the Four Seasons is being a cheapskate in this regard. They do provide robes and "refresh" service every day. That is the nicest thing that they do for the guests. If someone is considering Southern California for a vacation, a better choice is the Marriott Newport Villas as we just came from there and wish we had stayed there another week rather than making this exchange. I am not a novice in the timeshare area. This is the 17th week of timeshares that we have used this year. I doubt that I will trade into a Four Seasons again, although the resort at Pinnacle Peak was far superior to this."

Not sure where to begin - 'average' studio .. hmmm ... no 'burners' well true ... or no separate shower ... true .. you would be happier in a 1 bbd unit with whatever you traded with ? The 'refresh' every day on maid service is slightly more than a 'refresh' if you ever see what the staff do ... impressive. One last point -- I am an owner ....so the free hi-speed internet is a cost we as owners would bear in our maintenance fee .. and yes - we do pay some of the highest fees for the services ... so when a 'trader' comes in and gives the resort a FOUR out of 10 ... hmmmmm .... would like to know how they rate their home location ... where you get to drive to the pool ... driving is a waste of the beauty of this location - honk when you drive by me - I am the one walking the dog ( she likes to walk too )

A four .... holly cow ....

Greg H
 
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klpca

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pfffftttt! One persons opinion! I wouldn't worry about it. Compared to the other reviews it's clearly a contrary view. There are people who aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.

I'm happy to see that the reviews aren't censored. It gives them a bit more credibility, IMHO.
 

Ridewithme38

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No Elevators, no burners, no separate shower, no High speed Wifi, average rooms at best, sounds like a 4 to me...

What DO you guys pay so much for? the maid coming in and running the vacuum?
 

presley

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That reminds me of when I was on the Disney Dream. It was first cruise and my husband and I were BLOWN away by how amazing everything was and how friendly all the staff were at all times. I overheard a woman (actually, she was sitting outside of where I was getting a massage, practically yelling) complaining to a friend about everything from scheduling a pedicure to the wait staff not remembering her likes/dislikes. It was like we were on two different cruises. I wish I had her problems in life. :rofl:
 

Passepartout

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I tend to take extreme reviews with a grain of salt. Renters and exchangers are going to get lesser accommodations than owners. Owners are going to give better reviews than renters or exchangers. That's the way it is.

Jim
 

timeos2

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No Elevators, no burners, no separate shower, no High speed Wifi, average rooms at best, sounds like a 4 to me...

What DO you guys pay so much for? the maid coming in and running the vacuum?

Trading into a resort/unit that has known limitations that can't be changed (ie no elevators vs a self serving bogus fee charged only to exchange guests although paid already in the owners annual fees) is completely out of line. If you don't like/ can't deal with stairs don't trade in! If they hit exchange guests only with fees feel free to blast them or hit them with appropriately low scores & say why. That is out of line. Known consttuction limitations aren't IMO.

MY big beef with many rankings are the ones badly outdated that don't reflect recent changes both good and bad. Those can give distorted views of what you'll get if you trade in.
 
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GregGH

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MY big beef with many rankings are the ones badly outdated that don't reflect recent changes both good and bad. Those can give distorted views of what you'll get if you trade in.

There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor .... valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ... vs something great in the past 12 months.

You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?

Greg
 

TUGBrian

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ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.

dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.
 

JudyS

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....
Here is their quote ( with my comments in red )
"We were expecting a very nice resort according to reviews on this site. We stayed for a week in the Osprey Building in a studio unit. There are no elevators, so since we are located upstairs, we have to walk up 18 stairs every day. In addition, there is limited parking, so in order to get to the nearest pool, we have to walk up and down 46 steps down a hill. The stairway is not very well kept up, with pine straw and sand covering it in some places, which if wet could cause a fall.

Reply - Osprey is at the 'highest point in the complex - we stayed they last year and loved the location. Yes -the stairs mentioned can get covered by pine needles (since the trees are abundant) - but they usually are sweep on a regular basis ( as is everything else at Aviara ) and a quick call to the front desk gets that done within an hour ... the writer doesn't mention you can walk down the sidewalk to the Summit pool .. but then they seem to want to 'drive' everywhere were... GH
...

A lot of timeshare owners are older and have difficultly with stairs. (I am only 49, and already have to use a wheelchair for anything more than a very short walk, sigh.) I don't know how much information Aviara provides about stairs, but it sounds like this unit involved more stairs and walking than many of the other units at the resort. So probably, this unit had more walking & stairs than the exchangers were expecting.
 

ran-ran

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You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?

Greg

I can speak for two that do from very recent experience. I will usually comment these fees on my TUG reviews as well. I personally think that many of the extra fees that are charged to RCI exchangers are not fair but I don't make the rules. Usually when you are looking at the RCI information page it will disclose any additional fees that are charged for exchangers.

I just stayed at The Galleon Resort in Key West 12/3/11 - 12/10/11 and they charge $20. plus taxes for exchangers for phone and internet use.

The Fort Lauderdale Beach Resort charges $10.00 for the privilege of using the safe in the room, whether you use it or not. They do not charge this fee to owners. I know because I paid the fee prior to owning there and now I don't.

I personally think that everyone has the right to give a rating based on their experience to whatever it is that they deem appropriate. That is why it all averages out. The weighing system where newest ratings give more credence to the score makes sense to me as that would be more relevant. Another option is to be able to link the reviewer to all of their reviews like RCI does. This option allows you to see if the reviewer is a constant complainer or if the reviewer actually made a legitimate complaint.
 

rickandcindy23

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No way did Aviara deserve a 4. The person who wrote this review is too picky and the review doesn't deserve your time reading it.

We loved Aviara, absolutely perfect resort and experience. Daily maid service, superior units and kitchens, and the studio side of our two-bedroom was amazing for a studio. It was right up there with the Westin Maui studio.

That is what this guy expected, probably: separate tub at the Westins, full-sized refrigerator, and two burners, even a small dishwasher in those.
 

Keep Traveling

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That's the beauty of reviews...Everyone has their opinion and you have to read why they felt that way.

What if everyone at the resort was RUDE to them...Should it get a high rating.

How about someone's visit to the Grande Luxxe, nice property but construction going on and management wouldn't do anything about the noise.

Keep the system the way it is...

KT
 

timeos2

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There is an idea -- to 'weight' the rating by date - giving older rating diminishing weight factor .... valid point as something great 5 years is almost ancient history in TS's ... vs something great in the past 12 months.

You mention extra fees for renters - any names on who does that ?

Greg

The most infamous is the one that started it all - DVC's "exchange penalty" fee of $95/stay only to exchangers. Now we have a similar ripoff from The Manhattan Club ($25/day) and there are others. Most aren't as high as that, but still shouldn't exist. Examples would be WiFi fees only to exchangers but not owners (if they charge both I have no problem with a reasonable fee - that means it is a pay per use and the owners aren't paying it in their annual fees).

Even though the penalty fees are disclosed I still feel they are taking advantage of exchange guests and thus the resort deserves to get down graded scores due to those unfair expenss.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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ill see if we can perhaps establish a dual rating system...one for an overall score...and another that perhaps just takes an average of the reviews over the past 60 months.

dont hold me to this just in case its a gigantic nightmare in terms of coding...but ill see what I can do.

That only makes sense if there is a reasonable number of scores to work with, If the resort only has two reviews in the last five years, that rating is meaningless.

*****

Anyway as I've often stated I think the numerical rating system is a complete waste of time and effort anyway. The issue involving aging of scores is one of lesser problems with trying to assing numeric scores to resorts.

The reviews are very valuable; the rankings, though, are meaningless.
 

Ridewithme38

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The reviews are very valuable; the rankings, though, are meaningless.

The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that
 

rickandcindy23

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The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that

You are a TUG member, you should read the reviews and see the recommendations of the rankings. A "10" means it is the best resort you have ever been. I have stayed at the Westins on Maui and Kauai, and I have been to FSA, and they are 10 quality, believe me. Perfect locations, beautiful units, wonderful staff, and all of the pampering you want, if you are that type of person.

I have never seen kitchens nicer than FSA. Fabulous everything, and they replenished our coffee daily, and our shampoo and conditioner daily. Supreme service, deserving a 10.

Lack of elevators? The building we were in was two stories. If you need a lower-level unit, then request one. They would oblige such requests. My only complaint was the little kids above us who ran wild and jumped on the beds and jumped off noisily, and at 6:00 a.m. to begin every day. It was noisy, but it was not the fault of FSA, and certainly that is extreme rowdiness. No way did we hear ordinary footsteps, but the jumping off of the bed, we heard it. Parents were at fault. We will ask for an upper-level unit next time.

The family came running and screaming down the stairs to leave the morning of their check-out, and that was even earlier than 6:00 a.m. I went out to see this noisy bunch, prepared to grouse at them, and the kids were adorable. I had to smile.

We saw a guy walking around with his cute little white poodle at FSA back in February. Was that you, Greg?
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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The problem with the rankings is that people who based on their reviews Should be posting a 3, are posting 5's across the board...IMO, NO resort is perfect and with a 5(or 10 in some systems) being a perfect score...NO resort should be rated that
From that comment I'm guessing that you are unfamiliar with the TUG ranking system. If you are not familiar with what the system is I don't see why your comment should be afforded any deference.

****

Beyond that, the concept of issuing numerical rankings to resorts is ludicrous and can never work because it assumes that the criteria used to make the ranking define the perfect resort.

If there is no consensus as to what the rules should be the results of the ranking are garbage. GIGO.

The solution is pretty simple - read the reviews and decide if the resort is what you would like or not. Just forget about numerical rankings.
 

GregGH

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We saw a guy walking around with his cute little white poodle at FSA back in February. Was that you, Greg?

Hi--sorry-- I have a Golden Retriever ... cute story ... when we first started to go to Aviara ..asking on dog limitations ...and mentioned 'our girl' ....the person on the desk 'snapped back' ...oh we would never ask a lady her weight. Remembered that but I can forget almost everything else. Mind you that was Golden#2 ... we now have Golden #3 ...be careful the are addictive (unless you are the vacuum cleaner bag buyer )

The rating is kind of a badge that Four Seasons wears well - since they have such an attention to detail .... Thanks Brian for any tweaking on rating relative to time it will certainly help TS's who drastically improve ( or decline ) over say a few years ...

Greg
 

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From that comment I'm guessing that you are unfamiliar with the TUG ranking system. If you are not familiar with what the system is I don't see why your comment should be afforded any deference.

****

It's the same problem across all numerical reviews i've seen, i don't put my credence in the scores because in general people vote too high...I've avoided the Tug ranking system for a couple reasons, first the bias of those who rent/exchange the units they own, giving too high of a score to falsely increase value...and the fact that people don't realize a perfect score is completely unattainable, even the best resort has problems that keep it from earning a perfect score...when i do read reviews i usually completely skip over the bias of the *perfect* scores and the unusual results of the 0-1 scores...and read the actual reviews from actual people
 

rickandcindy23

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I've avoided the Tug ranking system for a couple reasons, first the bias of those who rent/exchange the units they own, giving too high of a score to falsely increase value...

Cynical, pessimistic, I don't know what this is.

I am always pretty honest in my reviews, and I never go to the resorts I actually own, well not until we bought on Maui. I have no reason to LIE in a review. If one of my resorts deserves bad ratings, then I accept it.

I think Twin Rivers, where I have owned for 31 years, needs to increase fees and improve so many things, but the board chooses not to. I would be more critical of Twin Rivers today than most anyone, that's for sure, because the place gets worse by the year. I have seen the steady decline, and it's not a pretty picture. The decks with the views of the water are spectacular, but that's about the only thing I can say great about it. You can see that picture of Rick and me on the deck in the New York Times article Brian has on the main page of TUG. I was in the New York Times! :rofl:
 

Ridewithme38

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I think Twin Rivers, where I have owned for 31 years, needs to increase fees and improve so many things, but the board chooses not to. I would be more critical of Twin Rivers today than most anyone, that's for sure, because the place gets worse by the year. I have seen the steady decline, and it's not a pretty picture. The decks with the views of the water are spectacular, but that's about the only thing I can say great about it. :rofl:

If you had to rate that resort right now, what would you give it? TO ME, that sounds like a 2

Cynical, pessimistic, I don't know what this is.
As for Optimism vs Pessimism...The glass is ALWAYS completely full, its just half with water and half with air
 
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pedro47

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What would the OP rates this resort at this time?
 

ran-ran

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High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea

I don't want this to sound as a complaint because I really do a thorough job of reading the reviews from fellow TUGGERS as well as other sites like Redweek and RCI to get an idea of what the experiences have been for fellow travelers. I believe it is a huge benefit to have useful and up to date information for us to review and consider.

With that being said, I was reviewing Hawaii's Top Resorts as reported on TUG and the number 1 resort is High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea with a single review and that reviewer visited the resort, Oct 21, 2007. That is over four years ago and with a single review how is it remotely plausible that this is the best resort on this system for Hawaii?

The issue with this, IMO is that a single review should not warrant a first place rating among ALL Hawaiian resorts or any category for that matter.
Another issue is that the lack of recent reviews should not qualify an old review should still warrant a first place rating.
Without a quality rating system the rating system becomes worthless and it should not be that way. We as a group want to encourage others to review the resorts we travel too and be able to know that the information is valid.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Without a quality rating system the rating system becomes worthless and it should not be that way.

"Quality rating system" is an oxymoron. There is no way to create a timeshare resort rating system that is anything other than meaningless, at best.
 

DeniseM

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With that being said, I was reviewing Hawaii's Top Resorts as reported on TUG and the number 1 resort is High Country Club Maui Palms at Wailea with a single review and that reviewer visited the resort, Oct 21, 2007. That is over four years ago and with a single review how is it remotely plausible that this is the best resort on this system for Hawaii?

That review should actually be removed, because that unit was a house in a destination club that went belly up, and it isn't accessible to anyone any more - much less for a TS exchange. I sent the Mgr. for the Hawaii reviews a pm to see if it can be removed. A defunct property should not have the top rating.

That being said, I think the overall ranking (not individual scores) of the top Hawaii timeshares is pretty darn accurate.
 
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