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Old April 26, 2012, 09:23 AM   #1
TSKeith
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[2012] Deedback Questions

Who has had experience completing a deedback? I would love to hear about your experience, good bad, or ugly. Also, I think a good sticky would be one that offers info on how to best go about deeding back a timeshare, along with a list of resorts that offer this as an option.
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Old April 26, 2012, 10:03 AM   #2
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We have an existing deedback article in the advice section, but IMO its not accurately named as it applies more as an advice article on how resorts should combat delinquencies and PCC's.

Ill put a new deedback article on my todo list and write it for the owner instead.
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Old April 26, 2012, 10:21 AM   #3
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Brian:
How about posting a list of all TSes that accept or have accepted deedbacks and the conditrions
Tuggers could contribute.
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Old April 26, 2012, 11:06 AM   #4
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Most resorts, if not all, would be wisely reluctant to publish that they take a deed back even if they do as it could open the floodgates to those that otherwise might have continued to own, pay & enjoy but fel if "everyone" is getting out by deeding back they should as well.

It has to be done per request and quietly - not a public free for all invitation.
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Old April 26, 2012, 11:09 AM   #5
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I dunno...

Quote:
Originally Posted by e.bram View Post
How about posting a list of all TSes that accept or have accepted deedbacks and the conditrions. Tuggers could contribute.
Maybe not a bad idea in concept, but an impossible and entirely unrealistic task in reality, since resort HOA's can (...and do --- and will continue to...) change their positions and / or their terms and conditions for accepting "deedbacks" at virtually any time. Moreover, as John has pointed out above, most facilities which accept deedbacks would neither welcome nor at all appreciate any such widespread "publicity".

In short, it's much too fluid and dynamic (...and maybe also much too delicate) a situation for entries on any such "posted list" to remain accurate much beyond the actual moment of any given individual posting...

Last edited by theo; April 26, 2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old April 26, 2012, 11:37 AM   #6
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yea, id think it would be way too dynamic of a list.

besides, we suggest that all owners who just want out, to at least ask the resort to take it back.
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Old April 26, 2012, 12:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by timeos2 View Post

It has to be done per request and quietly - not a public free for all invitation.
I agree as one who has successfully deeded Weeks back to four HOAs. My advice is to repeatedly call the Resort until you find the individual who understands what you are asking to do and who has the authority to accept a Deed Back. In my case I found this usually took multiple phone calls, in some cases over an extended period of time.

George
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Old April 26, 2012, 12:55 PM   #8
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I can't see how a list would work. As TUGBrian said- waay too dynamic a list. One group where I own will accept a few paid-up memberships early in the year, but when they get as many as they are likely to resell, they shut off the deed-backs. Some resorts maintain a list of owners willing to sell so that other owners who want additional weeks can get them internally.

These are both 'mature' resorts/mini systems that are not actively selling developer weeks. The only way units become available is through resale and attrition. Resorts that are still in 'developer sale mode' are less likely to accept deed-backs. Jmho.

Best to contact the HOA or BOD of your own resort and ask, maybe even repeatedly, if they will accept your deed-back. And if not, when they might.

Jim
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Old April 26, 2012, 12:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogey21 View Post
I agree as one who has successfully deeded Weeks back to four HOAs. My advice is to repeatedly call the Resort until you find the individual who understands what you are asking to do and who has the authority to accept a Deed Back. In my case I found this usually took multiple phone calls, in some cases over an extended period of time.

George
Perhaps you could give us a good example of who to call:
Call#1-Sales Office
Call#2-Owner Services
Call#3-HOA Board

Or maybe you could give us a rundown of how the conversations went and so on. Maybe we are all asking the wrong questions....
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Old April 26, 2012, 12:59 PM   #10
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Tuggers would report their experiences. By (in nj by nj supreme court) law all condo owners have to be treated equally.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:30 PM   #11
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Another $0.02 worth...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSKeith View Post
Perhaps you could give us a good example of who to call:
Call#1-Sales Office
Call#2-Owner Services
Call#3-HOA Board

Or maybe you could give us a rundown of how the conversations went and so on. Maybe we are all asking the wrong questions....
George (bogey21) certainly has more experience in this arena with four deedbacks; I have "deeded back" only one week (back in in 2008). That said, mine took about 3 months, whereas his took 3 years...

I wrote to the HOA ---just once--- (no phone calls were made or necessary at any time), offering my week (whose fee payments were fully up to date) and offering to pay the (truly minimal) deed prep and recording costs myself for transfer to the HOA. The HOA accepted. The entire process took about 90 days or so, from start to finish. Personally, I had neither the time, inclination (nor patience --- then or now) for a lot of unproductive phone calls to uninformed / unauthorized / uninvolved people or "middlemen" or "messengers". Acceptance (or rejection) is, after all, solely and exclusively a HOA / BOD decision in the final analysis.

Smaller "sold out" resorts generally have no "owner services" personnel, per se, nor any "sales office" either (...a resort affiliated resale broker, if any, has no resort authority whatsoever regarding deedbacks).

In summary, with due respect to George's 3 years long exercise of multiple phone calls, I would (...and did) instead simply write directly to the resort HOA president to offer your paid-up week (and any required closing costs) back to the HOA, thereby likely saving yourself a few years in getting a definitive response.

Last edited by theo; April 26, 2012 at 02:04 PM.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:45 PM   #12
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Why dynamic? HOAs are obligated to treat all owners the same. They can't alter the rules willy nilly. What they allow one owner obligates the HOA to allow for all owners.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:53 PM   #13
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I guess my point is better stated by:

"what is the point of having a list if we suggest that anyone in the situation take all appropriate steps in attempting to request the resort take the unit back as applicable"

ie...if someone is in a situation where they want to deed their unit back, knowing if the resort will or wont take it back according the the last time the list was updated is pretty trivial, and they should attempt to contact the resort to see if they will accept the deedback anyway.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:57 PM   #14
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Dynamic as in SUBJECT TO CHANGE and NOT PERMANENTLY FIXED IN PLACE...

Quote:
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Why dynamic? HOAs are obligated to treat all owners the same. They can't alter the rules willy nilly. What they allow one owner obligates the HOA to allow for all owners.
I'm not seeking to engage in endless argument with you, but the simple fact and unvarnished truth of the matter is that a HOA / BOD has the authority and latitude to make deedback decisions on a case-by-case, individual basis, taking into overall account the best interests of all owners and the resorts' finances.

Like it or not, there quite simply are no "rules" on this matter to "alter willy nilly" (your words).
It's a judgement call, to be made case by case, considering overall resort financial health, plain and simple.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:59 PM   #15
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The BOD has a duty to consider the best interest of ALL owners at the resort - not just people who want to deed back their timeshares.
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Old April 26, 2012, 02:31 PM   #16
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It is a matter of determining those who can't versus those who won't pay, ultimately the HOA will have too spend the money to foreclose on those that can't so it makes sense to all owners to accept the low cost deed back from those who cannot pay. The problem is that some people in the won't category are less than forthright in their allegations of financial hardship.

Having a consistent policy of requiring a sworn affifavit of insolvency would allow the HOA able to make a distinction between accepting or rejecting a deedback

IMHO - YMMV
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Old April 26, 2012, 03:14 PM   #17
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It is a matter of determining those who can't versus those who won't pay, ultimately the HOA will have too spend the money to foreclose on those that can't so it makes sense to all owners to accept the low cost deed back from those who cannot pay. The problem is that some people in the won't category are less than forthright in their allegations of financial hardship.

Having a consistent policy of requiring a sworn affifavit of insolvency would allow the HOA able to make a distinction between accepting or rejecting a deedback

IMHO - YMMV
I respectfully disagree with an underlying premise of your viewpoint. More specifically, I personally don't think or believe that any HOA / BOD can (...or ever should) make "deedback acceptance" decisions based upon the financial situations, claims, plights, or pleas of individual owners.

Instead, a BOD / HOA should (imho) only consider whether a potential "deedback" week can likely be resold (or rented out). If not, HOA should consider acceptance of deedback only if / when deed is accompanied by pre-payment of several years worth of advance maintenance fees (...a la the common PCC practices). A BOD / HOA is obligated to responsibly consider only what is best for the financial health, condition and overall stability of the resort --- not the financial status or predicaments of individual owner(s).

Stated a bit differently, if an offered week can likley be resold or rented out, by all means just take it back. If it's a week (...voluntarily purchased by its' current owner, I must point out) that likely cannot be easily resold or rented out, then it is the individual owner (not the HOA/BOD) who needs to find a new home for that particuilar ownership ---unless the owner is willing to mitigate HOA risk by agreeing to pre-pay several years worth of maintenance fees as a condition of deedback acceptance.

I don't mean to sound glib or heartless on this point. I know that some people are encountering difficult times. I just plain don't think that HOA's / BOD's can (or should) be expected to be "financial examiners or counselors" for individual owners. That's not their job and it's not what they are there to do. They are there to look out for the overall financial health and condition of the resort and all of the owners therein.

Just my personal opinion....
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Old April 26, 2012, 03:38 PM   #18
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while that theory works great in a vaccum...those owners who own weeks the HOA does not want back as they cant likely sell them anymore...will eventually end up finding a company who will deed that week to a bogus llc...thus creating a more expensive situation for the HOA in the first place.
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Old April 26, 2012, 04:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSKeith View Post
Perhaps you could give us a good example of who to call:
Call#1-Sales Office
Call#2-Owner Services
Call#3-HOA Board

Or maybe you could give us a rundown of how the conversations went and so on. Maybe we are all asking the wrong questions....
Generally I would call the Resort's main number and ask if they had a Sales Department. If they did, I would ask to be connected to them and see if they had any insight into Deed Backs. I would then ask who to talk to, who made the decision, etc. If the Resort had no Sales Department, I would find out from whoever answered the phone if there was someone I could talk to about a Deed Back. If they were no help, I would call back a couple of months later and go through the same process. In every case eventually I got to the right person.

George
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Old April 26, 2012, 04:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by theo View Post
Just my personal opinion....
And I closed with "In my Humble Opinion"

However I have 20+ years experience evaluating whether to spend legal fees on pursuing commercial debt based on the probability of collecting the original obligation as well as the additional spend for futile attorney's fees.

Being pragmatic about getting non performing deeds "un-Recorded" from deadbeat owners at the lowest possible cost is something I would want my HUA to pursue
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Old April 26, 2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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Theo:
The only cases that count are the published court cases in their respective states. Which do not allow owners to be treated differently. Your theory would allow public corp to issue dividends to stockholders based on their need for funds or pay their employees in the same manner.
ps. Frank's over yonder seem interested.
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Old April 26, 2012, 04:51 PM   #22
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Based on his experience, I'm thinking that George's (Bogey21) advice up a couple in post 19 is the most sensible and has the best chance at success. ebram's usual confrontational, attorney heavy way to accomplish the job at hand seems to have a smaller chance of prevailing. Jmho.

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Old April 26, 2012, 05:01 PM   #23
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Jim:
What attorney heavy are you talking about. The courts are open to ALL citizens(residents)of the USA and with the amount on money involved you can kick attorney(if one is dumb enough to get involved) ass easily by yourself(it is called pro se). Courts and law schools will help pro ses.(in the northeast anyway) I never been to Idaho and am not familiar with it's legal system.
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Old April 26, 2012, 05:16 PM   #24
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Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been. As I stated, my OPINION is that asking the right entity at your resort (HOA, BOD, Sales office etc.) has a greater chance of success than taking them to court, pro-se, or represented to attempt to shove the deed to an unwanted timeshare down the throat of an unwilling resort. After all, they already have YOU paying the MF. Why should they have to recruit (sell it to) someone else to do the same thing?

Jim
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Old April 28, 2012, 08:54 PM   #25
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Have done deedback twice

Just ask the resort if they accept deedbacks. Both resorts handled it themselves at modest (recording fees) to no cost to us. These were Florida resorts not affiliated with any chain.
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