• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Why DC Points could be worth 80-90 cents to rent

4Reliefnow

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
166
Reaction score
7
Location
West Bloomfield, MI
Got your attention...please don't yell at me. I am going to demonstrate in simple math why DC points might be worth 80-90 cents to rent.

I will present the math two ways: First using a simple return on investment approach and then a second method which spreads the purchaxe cost over a useful life period.

Return on investment - Required Return 4%
Buy DC Points for $9.50 would require a 4% return of 38 cents a year
you could keep your $28,500 invested and make 4% a year and just rent the points from someone else. The points have a maintenance cost (from MVC website) of 41 cents a year. Add the 38 cents from invested capital and the 41 cents from maintenance and the points are costing you 79 cents a year.

You would be much better off renting the points for 80 cents(see point ad on TUG for 60 cents). Rent only as much as you want, skip a year if you don't travel as much, Just like airplanes and boats-----cheaper to rent than own!

This approach assumes you sell your points at the end for the purchase price (How did that work out for your weeks?)

Useful Life Approach: Spread the cost over a 20 year life
Buy points for $9.50 and spread the cost out over a 20 year useful life: $9.50/20 = 47.5 cents a year add the 41 cents maintenance and the cost is 88.5 cents a year. This approach assumes no return on investment or a final sale price which represents a very small annual percentage return.

If you can rent points for less than 88.5 cents you are better off financially than buying new trust points.

Keep this discussion n point: Does it make more sense to buy DC points or just rent what you need? I know that many people will say: "Just buy a Platinum week you want to use at $4,000 or less" but this is a buy vs rent points discussion.

Full disclosure: I converted my legacy week to DC Points. I did not buy any new DC Points. I intend to rent my points as an easier transaction than renting a week. You can actually enroll your weeks before the deadline and NOT BUY MORE POINTS (PM for contact information)
 
It seems that $0.80-0.90 pp is a little high at least in the current market. Once the purchase is made and paid, and years have past, people are just concerned about recouping that $0.41 pp MF. Not sure they will take the time to bring in all their other costs in to their rental asking prices. They are also competing against all the other rental rates out there that have no correlation to their cost per point but rather the market overall.
 
I'm not a fan of a weeks based system. I like to vacation in multiple areas for 3-5 days at a time. The point system works for me. Still I've run the numbers every which way and none of the scenarios came up with buy. Weeks based rentals and legacy point owners with low mf/point ratios will continue to depress the point rental market. As Dioxide said, many owners are long past their buy in cost and just want to recoup mf.

On the plus side, this works out great for me. I can rent the exact amount of points I need for a reservation at $0.10-0.15 over mf cost. Using GregT's rental site I was able to reserve a 3 bedroom ov at KoOlina for only the 3 nights that I wanted. If I'm lucky and actually plan ahead, I can find a Premier Plus owner to book a short stay at the 13 month window for me.
 
Last edited:
I did not recommend anyone pay 80 cents - But still better than buying DC Points

It seems that $0.80-0.90 pp is a little high at least in the current market. Once the purchase is made and paid, and years have past, people are just concerned about recouping that $0.41 pp MF. Not sure they will take the time to bring in all their other costs in to their rental asking prices. They are also competing against all the other rental rates out there that have no correlation to their cost per point but rather the market overall.



You are correct, the market for renting points seems to be around 50 cents to 65 cents. The point of this post is to show that you could afford to pay 80 cents instead of buying DC points. conclusion, you are paying way too much to buy points....kinda like buying from the developer...:doh: Oh, that is right, If I buy points I am buying from the developer and if I rent points I am buying resale ( one time use).

I like points for the convenience, the 3 day rental mentioned above, the clean rental : rent my points for x cents and do whatever you want and even cancel and re-book, the geographic flexibility (No we don't allow California points here in Hawaii). I just am trying to prove that you should rent instead of buy.
 
I just am trying to prove that you should rent instead of buy.

4Relief, I could not agree with you more.

Why buy points when you can rent them? Especially if you can rent them cheaply?

I objected strongly to the Marriott structure (really, the skim) when it was introduced. But I enrolled shortly thereafter because I believe that the ability to transfer points is extremely powerful.

We've seen this value in 1) traditional points rentals 2) Direct Exchanges were a week is exchanged for Marriott points and 3) distressed points rentals where someone needs to get rid of expiring points.

There are flaws in the Marriott structure from an existing owner perspective (skim/complicated points chart/buckets) but we should recognize that Marriott did not have to allow legacy week owners in when they introduced the system. They've found other creative ways to access the critical inventory that we own. Equally importantly, they did not have to allow us the ability to transfer points -- which I believe is very important.

So, I agree with the concept of your thread. I personally have been surprised that the prices dropped so quickly to $0.50 per point -- but as others have stated, this is more a function of the glut of points available than the true value of the points. But we still have an inefficient market and I'm not sure where the rental prices will ultimately settle.

Thanks for starting the thread, this is a topic that is near to my heart.

All the best,

Greg


Link to the formation of the rental board, which has some good info from people renting points:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144052
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your efforts on this greg, instead of renting points to transfer is it just as easy to ask the person to make the reservation for you using those points? For example for someone without a marriott tmeshare or without a points account.
 
Thanks for your efforts on this greg, instead of renting points to transfer is it just as easy to ask the person to make the reservation for you using those points? For example for someone without a marriott tmeshare or without a points account.

Siesta,

Yes -- you are correct that you can ask the points owner to simply make a reservation for you -- Steve Lum had another TUGger make a reservation directly for him and paid the agreed upon rental price.

Additionally, the renter can also benefit from the DC point owners "status". As an example, a Premier Plus owner can make a 1-7 day reservation for another TUGger 13 months out -- that's valuable to get a short stay reservation.

The risk however is the same as with any rental -- will something unexpected happen to your reservation? For this reason, I like having the points in my account and controlling the entire reservation process. But that doesn't mean it can't be very effective to simply let someone else make the reservation.

Best,

Greg
 
Used Trust points

So a while back there was an ebay sale for 1500 Trust points. I was interested in a started account, because as Greg mentioned there's always trust issues in renting. I ran the numbers to see if I could make it work. Here's the best the trust could do.

1500 pts, resale cost $3750, $399 close, $1445 transfer fee.
Taken over 42 years, no resale value, no opertunity cost (My money rarely sits in a bank).

$0.50/ pt, that good right since rentals are $.50-$.60/pt. The problem was no one can say for sure if the points will have restrictions. Then there's the why tie your self to a life time of fees for the same cost as renting.

In the end I felt I would leave my fate in the hands of Greg's rental site and the wonderful Tuggers with too many points. The person I rented points from, is a long time tugger so I had no problem sending him money. I'm sure at some point in the furture I'll do it again. That is of course if I can't set up a private trade first.
 
So a while back there was an ebay sale for 1500 Trust points. I was interested in a started account, because as Greg mentioned there's always trust issues in renting. I ran the numbers to see if I could make it work. Here's the best the trust could do.

1500 pts, resale cost $3750, $399 close, $1445 transfer fee.
Taken over 42 years, no resale value, no opertunity cost (My money rarely sits in a bank).

$0.50/ pt, that good right since rentals are $.50-$.60/pt. The problem was no one can say for sure if the points will have restrictions. Then there's the why tie your self to a life time of fees for the same cost as renting.

In the end I felt I would leave my fate in the hands of Greg's rental site and the wonderful Tuggers with too many points. The person I rented points from, is a long time tugger so I had no problem sending him money. I'm sure at some point in the furture I'll do it again. That is of course if I can't set up a private trade first.

I think in the future (maybe 10 or more years), you will start to see a glut of resale points start to hit the market. Just like at new resorts, resales start out slow. I think these will start to pick up. Once a huge resort like Grande Vista was 10 years old, the market was flooded with resale units. I think the same will happen to the *resort* that we call the trust. Depending on what MVCI ROFR practices are on these units, I think you will see decently priced resale points in the future. A good reason to enroll today? Maybe not, but if your enrollment price difference is $1800 between now and the June 14th price increase, it would be a gamble I might be willing to take and enroll now.
 
I think the general rule could be said for all points based systems, and that would go back to the bigger question which is are timeshares for me? I small BG points owner may pay .08 cents per point MF. So they ARE better to rent from somebody who has points at .06 cents because they have more points.
 
1500 pts, resale cost $3750, $399 close, $1445 transfer fee.
Taken over 42 years, no resale value, no opertunity cost (My money rarely sits in a bank).
resale Marriott points, I thought this wasnt possible. Am I missing something?
 
resale Marriott points, I thought this wasnt possible. Am I missing something?

Points can be resold. The big question is what restrictions will be placed on the points and the new owner. MVCI has the right to restric those points to booking only inside of 60 days. There's been a couple of ebay sales and the broker in at least one sale stated that Marriott told him the points would be unrestricted. No one wants to be the guinea pig on this one. I've linked a couple old post that discussed the resale.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165912&highlight=education+fee
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151645&highlight=education+fee
 
Top