Did I make a mistake?

Langra · Aug 2, 2012

Wish I had seen this website one day earlier.

I just bought retail at Marbrisa. 6200 points every other year plus 9000 bonus pts. Annual fees of $590. It's a 1 bedroom platinum week 30 but I don't really care about the unit/week. I'm just interested in the points and they claim the points here are cheaper than the other locations. Paid a little over $15k.

1. I didn't know much about resale but I assume I paid too much?

2. Now that I look at more details I see I have to make a minimum 3 night res at other props which is a problem. My wife and I can usually only take 3 days/2nights at a time when we leave the kids home.

3. When we take the 4 kids we generally need 3 bedrooms. There aren't many properties with 3 bedrooms, and almost all that do are platinum during the only times the kids can go. Looks like I don't have enough points to do a platinum week in a 3br.

I'm assuming I should rescind and start over. I thought I was getting something that would let me take the same vacations we've been taking but would break even after 5-6 years leaving me just the $590/year going forward and I could always decide if I wanted more points. But now I'm not sure I'll be able to use it as much as I thought and could have paid much less anyway? Thoughts?

AlohaAmbassador · Aug 2, 2012

Yes, you should rescind as quickly as you can. Then take some time to research a bit more carefully to find what it is that you really need for your situation (kids, available time, etc.). Sounds like you may actually need to have more points to be able to take the family on vacations, but you really don't want to pay developer prices for that privelege. Resale is the only way to go, but you'll need to do your homework thoroughly before you purchase anything.

amycurl · Aug 2, 2012

HGVC is very highly-regarded here on TUG, especially for being particularly resale-owner friendly (much more so than many other hotel-branded system.) So, yes, definitely rescind, and you may find that you can buy enough points on the resale market for the same amount of $.

But I'm sure the real HGVC experts will be by shortly...

GregT · Aug 2, 2012

Langra said:
Wish I had seen this website one day earlier.

I just bought retail at Marbrisa. 6200 points every other year plus 9000 bonus pts. Annual fees of $590. It's a 1 bedroom platinum week 30 but I don't really care about the unit/week. I'm just interested in the points and they claim the points here are cheaper than the other locations. Paid a little over $15k.

1. I didn't know much about resale but I assume I paid too much? You can buy the equivalent package much more cheaply via resale -- I do encourage you to rescind and spend some time looking around.

2. Now that I look at more details I see I have to make a minimum 3 night res at other props which is a problem. My wife and I can usually only take 3 days/2nights at a time when we leave the kids home.You are correct that when booking with points, you have a minimum of a 3 night reservation. The only way to get 2 nights is 30 days within check-in when you reserve with cash during Open Season. Some people will still take a 3 night reservation so they can show up earlier than the customary check-in time (4pm) and the Thursday night point requirement is only 50% of what Friday's point requirement.

3. When we take the 4 kids we generally need 3 bedrooms. There aren't many properties with 3 bedrooms, and almost all that do are platinum during the only times the kids can go. Looks like I don't have enough points to do a platinum week in a 3br.There are not that many properties that have 3BR's -- and availability is spotty depending on when you want to travel. Where do you want to go, and we can comment on the availability of 3BR's?

I'm assuming I should rescind and start over. I thought I was getting something that would let me take the same vacations we've been taking but would break even after 5-6 years leaving me just the $590/year going forward and I could always decide if I wanted more points. But now I'm not sure I'll be able to use it as much as I thought and could have paid much less anyway? Thoughts?

I would encourage you to rescind -- timeshares -- and HGVC -- are terrific vehicles to facilitate those family vacations. Good luck and let us know what you do!

Best,

Greg

ricoba · Aug 2, 2012

RESCIND NOW and take a look at a "used" HGVC resort!

barond · Aug 2, 2012

Honestly if what you are quoting is true and there are no other fees that is not bad.

$15k for 6200 points = $2.419 per point
$590/year MF fees is pretty low. There are some taxes in there you are not quoting.

9000 bonus points = $900 vacation dollars.

A 2 bedroom fixed week 30 according to judi koz goes for $10k for 7000 points.
But the MF + taxes is $1010 ($778 MF + $232 taxes).

I would assume the taxes is probably $210 per year as well. That brings your real MF's to $590 MF + $210 taxes = $800/week.

You could trade for 3 bedrooms via RCI for a week but that would be another $199 fee for 5800 points and that includes HGVC if you can find them. You would need an ongoing search.

There is a 3 bedroom at judi's that is for sale for $16k 8400 points and $1191 per year in MF/taxes at seaworld.

So pretty much any way you slice it, it will probably cost you over $1,000 a week for a 3 bedroom through HGVC or the RCI portal via HGVC.

Also you could use your points every other year for 12400 points which would also get you a 3 bedroom but that would cost you quite a bit.

The end advice is there are cheaper ways to do it. You should rescind as you can go cheaper. There are little advantages to buying retail, BUT its not the end of the world.

The price is alot higher than you think.

Baron

Langra · Aug 2, 2012

barond said:
Honestly if what you are quoting is true and there are no other fees that is not bad.

$15k for 6200 points = $2.419 per point
$590/year MF fees is pretty low. There are some taxes in there you are not quoting.

9000 bonus points = $900 vacation dollars.

A 2 bedroom fixed week 30 according to judi koz goes for $10k for 7000 points.
But the MF + taxes is $1010 ($778 MF + $232 taxes).

I would assume the taxes is probably $210 per year as well. That brings your real MF's to $590 MF + $210 taxes = $800/week.

You could trade for 3 bedrooms via RCI for a week but that would be another $199 fee for 5800 points and that includes HGVC if you can find them. You would need an ongoing search.

There is a 3 bedroom at judi's that is for sale for $16k 8400 points and $1191 per year in MF/taxes at seaworld.

So pretty much any way you slice it, it will probably cost you over $1,000 a week for a 3 bedroom through HGVC or the RCI portal via HGVC.

Also you could use your points every other year for 12400 points which would also get you a 3 bedroom but that would cost you quite a bit.

The end advice is there are cheaper ways to do it. You should rescind as you can go cheaper. There are little advantages to buying retail, BUT its not the end of the world.

The price is alot higher than you think.

Baron

The deal I paid for is for every other year. The deals you are referencing for comparison look like annual points rather than biennial? The $590 includes taxes but it's an annual fee and I only get biennial points. 8400 points/year for $16k seems a lot better than 6200/every other year for the same amount even after the additional $500/year in fees.

Clearly, I have a lot of research to do to figure out how to get the best deal. You reference judi--is that a resale brokerage? Sorry for the uniformed questions.

semicycler · Aug 2, 2012

Judi K. and Seth N. are two different timeshare real estate agents referenced here often. I've personally bought from Judi in the past, as well as eBay without a broker.

Use the search feature here to find more info on them both.

barond · Aug 2, 2012

Langra said:
The deal I paid for is for every other year. The deals you are referencing for comparison look like annual points rather than biennial? The $590 includes taxes but it's an annual fee and I only get biennial points. 8400 points/year for $16k seems a lot better than 6200/every other year for the same amount even after the additional $500/year in fees.

Clearly, I have a lot of research to do to figure out how to get the best deal. You reference judi--is that a resale brokerage? Sorry for the uniformed questions.

Seth Nock's site

Judi Koz's site

They are timeshare resale brokers for HGVC and others. If what you have is biennial then you definately overpaid.

Baron

rrsafety · Aug 2, 2012

barond said:
Seth Nock's site

Judi Koz's site

They are timeshare resale brokers for HGVC and others. If what you have is biennial then you definately overpaid.

Baron

Yes, rescind ASAP.

phil1ben · Aug 2, 2012

I also bought through Judi. On the resale market you should be able to get a 7000 point Platinum package every year for between $12,500 to $15,000.00, except for maybe Hawaii. As an aside, in 2009-2010 resales were going for $8,500.00 but things "have improved".

However, maintenance fees for every year will vary depending on resort from between $850.00 and $1,300. Hawaii is slightly higher. South Beach is on the higher end. Las Vegas on the lower end. Other than Home week, it does not matter where you buy as points are points. Keep reading the forum and historical notes and within a few hours you will get up to speed.

Ron98GT · Aug 2, 2012

Langra said:
Wish I had seen this website one day earlier.

I just bought retail at Marbrisa. 6200 points every other year plus 9000 bonus pts. Annual fees of $590. It's a 1 bedroom platinum week 30 but I don't really care about the unit/week. I'm just interested in the points and they claim the points here are cheaper than the other locations. Paid a little over $15k.

1. I didn't know much about resale but I assume I paid too much?

2. Now that I look at more details I see I have to make a minimum 3 night res at other props which is a problem. My wife and I can usually only take 3 days/2nights at a time when we leave the kids home.

3. When we take the 4 kids we generally need 3 bedrooms. There aren't many properties with 3 bedrooms, and almost all that do are platinum during the only times the kids can go. Looks like I don't have enough points to do a platinum week in a 3br.

I'm assuming I should rescind and start over. I thought I was getting something that would let me take the same vacations we've been taking but would break even after 5-6 years leaving me just the $590/year going forward and I could always decide if I wanted more points. But now I'm not sure I'll be able to use it as much as I thought and could have paid much less anyway? Thoughts?

1. What day did you sign the contract, one day ago?

2. Are you one day beyond rescission?

3. Read the contract to determine the rescission period.

4. If your within the rescission period, follow the instructions to the letter and rescind now.

Aquaman55 · Aug 2, 2012

semicycler said:
Judi K. and Seth N. are two different timeshare real estate agents referenced here often. I've personally bought from Judi in the past, as well as eBay without a broker.

Use the search feature here to find more info on them both.

Before you contact either of these brokers, it is best if you start the process of rescinding. Licensed brokers are not supposed to suggest that you rescind. Also, they can't help you out of a contract. I have heard many good things about both brokers, but I have purchased from Seth. He knows the ins and outs of the market and what the trends are. He is highly reputable. Something that can't be said about a lot of other realtors. eBay is like a flea market. You have to really know what you are doing when purchasing on that site. Tuggers have praised both Seth and Judy. You can't go wrong with either when purchasing resale. Good luck!

TheWizz · Aug 9, 2012

Langra said:
Wish I had seen this website one day earlier.

I just bought retail at Marbrisa. 6200 points every other year plus 9000 bonus pts. Annual fees of $590. It's a 1 bedroom platinum week 30 but I don't really care about the unit/week. I'm just interested in the points and they claim the points here are cheaper than the other locations. Paid a little over $15k.

1. I didn't know much about resale but I assume I paid too much?

2. Now that I look at more details I see I have to make a minimum 3 night res at other props which is a problem. My wife and I can usually only take 3 days/2nights at a time when we leave the kids home.

3. When we take the 4 kids we generally need 3 bedrooms. There aren't many properties with 3 bedrooms, and almost all that do are platinum during the only times the kids can go. Looks like I don't have enough points to do a platinum week in a 3br.

I'm assuming I should rescind and start over. I thought I was getting something that would let me take the same vacations we've been taking but would break even after 5-6 years leaving me just the $590/year going forward and I could always decide if I wanted more points. But now I'm not sure I'll be able to use it as much as I thought and could have paid much less anyway? Thoughts?

I am assuming you have rescinded by now. Grand Pacific actually has a resale dept. where you can buy GPP units for a fraction of the retail price and convert them to HGVC Points and still have "ownership rights" at Grand Pacific. You (historically) could buy two or more units worth >14k HGVC points and convert the GPP units to HGVC Points and get Elite benefits as well. But I hear that window of opportunity may have closed recently.

Like mentioned, there is a lot of resale HGVC properties available on the market in several locations. Another good place to look is www.ebay.com/sch/Timeshares-for-Sale-/15897/i.html and also on tug2.com/timesharemarketplace/. The key for buying from these types of places is to use a reputable closing company that holds your funds in escrow until the deed is verified to be in your name. I have purchased several timeshares from EBay and never had a problem. Good luck!

Seth Nock · Aug 13, 2012

semicycler said:
Judi K. and Seth N. are two different timeshare real estate agents referenced here often. I've personally bought from Judi in the past, as well as eBay without a broker.

Use the search feature here to find more info on them both.

Be very careful about buying from eBay. Recently there have been a number of scams on eBay. There are companies with high feedback score that either stole buyer funds or required the buyer to close with a closing company that they own and have been transferring deeds with bad title. If you use eBay, do your research on the company you are bidding.

TheWizz · Aug 13, 2012

Seth Nock said:
Be very careful about buying from eBay. Recently there have been a number of scams on eBay. There are companies with high feedback score that either stole buyer funds or required the buyer to close with a closing company that they own and have been transferring deeds with bad title. If you use eBay, do your research on the company you are bidding.

Indeed. If a seller won't let me (the buyer) choose my own closing company (or uses a well known Co that I know) that holds ALL my funds until the deed has cleared and registered in my name, I stay clear. I have bought six timeshares on EBay and had no problems as long as I was able to use one of the well known closing companies. Even with that, I normally get the owner's name and account # and verify the timeshare deed direct with the resort as well, e.g. names match, unit is paid off, etc.

Seth Nock · Aug 13, 2012

TheWizz said:
Indeed. If a seller won't let me (the buyer) choose my own closing company (or uses a well known Co that I know) that holds ALL my funds until the deed has cleared and registered in my name, I stay clear. I have bought six timeshares on EBay and had no problems as long as I was able to use one of the well known closing companies. Even with that, I normally get the owner's name and account # and verify the timeshare deed direct with the resort as well, e.g. names match, unit is paid off, etc.

It actually goes far past transfer. Many of these trade in and relief type companies own there own transfer companies. They have not had much experiences with the deeds and are closing with Power of Attorneys that are not legal in the states that the properties are in or are making errors on the deeds. You may not find out until you are ready to sell, and since you do not have clean title, you may never be able to sell the property and remain responsible to the property. I know of many instances where this has occurred and have been helping numerous owners try to clean their titles, some at great expenses to the owners. 1 owner, I cannot get cleaned and they will be unable to sell their Marriott Desert Springs.

bogey21 · Aug 13, 2012

Man, it is getting tough out there in Time Share Land. Over the years I probably owned 20 different Weeks at one time or another. When I bought I didn't take a whole lot of precautions, and when I sold it was basically on a handshake. I'm down to one Week now, a ski week in Colorado used by my Son. If I were buying or selling today, it would be a whole new ball game. Back when I was buying and selling I was a "do it myself" kind of guy. No longer. The potential problems out there today are enormous.

George

TheWizz · Aug 16, 2012

Seth Nock said:
It actually goes far past transfer. Many of these trade in and relief type companies own there own transfer companies. They have not had much experiences with the deeds and are closing with Power of Attorneys that are not legal in the states that the properties are in or are making errors on the deeds. You may not find out until you are ready to sell, and since you do not have clean title, you may never be able to sell the property and remain responsible to the property. I know of many instances where this has occurred and have been helping numerous owners try to clean their titles, some at great expenses to the owners. 1 owner, I cannot get cleaned and they will be unable to sell their Marriott Desert Springs.

Interesting information, thanks for sharing. I have had a couple of TS that I was interested in that seemed fishy, as you mentioned, so I walked away and didn't buy. Just goes to prove there are scam artists in almost every industry...

detjason · Sep 17, 2012

The suggestion that buying a timeshare from a broker insures the buyer of clean title is misleading. All real estate transactions have the potential for title propblems and using a broker doesn't change that. I doubt brokers do title searches before taking listings. In fact, I find no such guarantee on any broker website that I am aware of.

What does insure clean title? Title insurance. It is offerred by all reputable timeshare escrow companies for a couple hundred dollars or so. I also agree the buyer should chose his or her own timeshare closing service if there are such concerns.

Brokers are experts and provide a valuable service for a price, but title insurance is not usually one of them (unless expressly stated). IMO, most buyers SHOULD use brokers if they are not familiar with such transactions for other reasons, including piece of mind.

SmithOp · Sep 18, 2012

detjason said:
The suggestion that buying a timeshare from a broker insures the buyer of clean title is misleading. All real estate transactions have the potential for title propblems and using a broker doesn't change that. I doubt brokers do title searches before taking listings. In fact, I find no such guarantee on any broker website that I am aware of.

What does insure clean title? Title insurance. It is offerred by all reputable timeshare escrow companies for a couple hundred dollars or so. I also agree the buyer should chose his or her own timeshare closing service if there are such concerns.

Brokers are experts and provide a valuable service for a price, but title insurance is not usually one of them (unless expressly stated). IMO, most buyers SHOULD use brokers if they are not familiar with such transactions for other reasons, including piece of mind.

A Timeshare Estoppel Letter will establish ownership, and fees, loans, or taxes owed - from the resort, you should require it.

capital city · Sep 18, 2012

Everyone keeps saying 7000pts platinum at Seaworld is 10-12k on the resale market but I keep seeing them on ebay for 6k. Am I missing something?

Talent312 · Sep 18, 2012

capital city said:
Everyone keeps saying 7000pts platinum at Seaworld is 10-12k on the resale market but I keep seeing them on ebay for 6k. Am I missing something?

If they are real prices for real units, they won't get past HGVC's right of first refusal.
$1.25 - $1.50 per point is more realistic.

capital city · Sep 18, 2012

Here are 5 recent ebay auctions ending around 6k for seaworld platinum 7000 pts. Is Hilton using ROFR on all of these? Not saying your wrong because I am a newb, just really want to know. I would buy at this price but probably not at 4-5k more

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw..._odkw=seaworld+hilton&_osacat=0&LH_Complete=1

piyooshj · Sep 19, 2012

2nd is delisting for first. Same seller. I bought from this seller recently.

Did I make a mistake?

Langra

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