Word on RCI rentals seems to be reaching more timesharers

Yesterday evening, I stopped in to the KFC at Whalebone Junction in Nags Head for dinner and ran into a former Bodie Island Beach Club HOA Board member and another BIBC owner who were down for the court hearings on the attempted hostile takeover of their resort by a developer. We chatted a bit about that and their expected return to testify when the hearings resume on Thursday.

Then I inquired what they were doing in timesharing with BIBC closed down until things get resolved. Both own summer weeks, which they used at the resort, and were anxious to be able to use them again. One owned a BIBC week 52 (white) for trading and the other owned at another resort for trading.

The former Board member, who could no longer trade his BIBC week 52, had joined a vacation club where he paid $299 to join and $99 a year dues and could then rent weeks for maintenace fee levels or less. He said it was all RCI weeks, and seemed to include the 45 day inventory. The other had discovered another rental site with RCI inventory.

Since these were longtime timesharers whose home resort was in limbo, I did something I would not with an non-timesharer. I let them know about Sky Auction as another rental source.

Neither of these people participate in online t/s mesage boards or subscribe to t/s publications, yet both had managed to stumble across RCI rental sites. I found that interesting.

Carolinian said:

Neither of these people participate in online t/s mesage boards or subscribe to t/s publications, yet both had managed to stumble across RCI rental sites. I found that interesting.

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ME TOO

I got the end of an ad on WCVB-TV from Boston this morning about vacation rentals via their channel or website. It almost sounded like another RCI rental outlet, but so far I have not found the right link on their homepage. I will try to figure out the source of their rentals tonight at home.

But no where nearly as fast as the word is spreading that the "World is Flat"

I just did a google search on "RCI Rentals" vs. "Flat Earth Society"

"RCI rentals" had 1970 results. "Flat Earth Society" had 306,000 results.

So, there are 155 times more information being reported on the earth being flat vs. rentals at RCI. This should give us a perspective on how important the topic of RCI rentals is to the world at large.

RCI holiday network franchise oppertunity

Boca,

Look out "Flat Earth Society". RCI rentals is coming on fast. I cannot find the website now but I ran into the franchise site a few weeks ago. As I recall the cost was somewhere around $15,000.

Maybe we should pool our money here on Tug and buy a franchise.

We could call it TUG Travel.
Or
Flat Earth Society Travel
Get them while they are Hot Travel.
If you can't beat them join them Travel.

How about Snap Travel. Ops that ones taken.

Short

A fellow timesharer who was at an ARDA meeting last year said there was a lot of consternation among folks there about RCI's shopping these things around. They apparently come with software to plug into RCI's database.

RCI seems more interested in rentals than exchanges.

short said:

Boca,

Look out "Flat Earth Society". RCI rentals is coming on fast. I cannot find the website now but I ran into the franchise site a few weeks ago. As I recall the cost was somewhere around $15,000.

Maybe we should pool our money here on Tug and buy a franchise.

We could call it TUG Travel.
Or
Flat Earth Society Travel
Get them while they are Hot Travel.
If you can't beat them join them Travel.

How about Snap Travel. Ops that ones taken.

Short

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Let's Add Costco to the List

I just went to costco.com to look for a rental car. Before I got to the cars, I saw "Condo Rentals Weekly" or something. Sure enough, lots of familiar resort names.

And really high prices. Makes timesharing even more appealing.

Lee B said:

I just went to costco.com to look for a rental car. Before I got to the cars, I saw "Condo Rentals Weekly" or something. Sure enough, lots of familiar resort names.

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JeffV said:

And really high prices. Makes timesharing even more appealing.

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Generally, you will find garbage weeks of timeshares are rented below maintenance and high demand weeks are rented out at higher than maintenance fees.

The issue should really be: is RCI renting out high demand weeks below maintainance fees?

Take what you can get

RonaldCol said:

Generally, you will find garbage weeks of timeshares are rented below maintenance and high demand weeks are rented out at higher than maintenance fees.

The issue should really be: is RCI renting out high demand weeks below maintainance fees?

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Why would they? They aren't in the business to leave money on the table. If you see resorts renting for less that the annual fee it's because thats the rate they (who ever is renting - not just RCI) feel the market will accept. Just because a maintenance fee is high at any given resort doesn't mean that is the rental market price. Hopefully the fee is less but in reality it may be more if thats the market. Unlike weeks trades the value isn't one for one. In rentals the real market speaks and sets the going rate. Too low and the inventory flies away in a few minutes - too high and it just sits until expiration. Renters have to be knowledgeable to set the price at the right point. The annual fee doesn't matter to renters as they shop.

What would happen if FCI denies exchange but you find rental is available through...

What would happen if you wanted a certain RCI resort... then RCI tell you there was no availability for exchange...then you find this same resort has availability for RCI rental of the same unit size and time frame you want to exchange? Is the inventory of resort designated rental/exchange at some point each year. I don't mind RCI renting out "unused" inventory...but really seems unfair that rental customers would have priority over TS owners. BUT, we pay each year whether we get what we want or not. Newbie question...and this may be exactly why everyone is so upset about the rentals. I welcome comment.
Thanks!
Jim

If you don't have the value you don't get the time

Ramsark - The situation you describe should mean that the week you deposited isn't at least as valuable as the week you desire so, although it is in the pool, you don't have the trade power to claim it. Thus it goes to the rental pool if no other equal request was made. In points that doesn't happen if you have enough points you get the time. That is far too simplified but that is the bottom line.

The logical next question is what IS the trade power of your deposit? No one knows and thats the main problem with weeks. It is secret and you have to take their word for the fact that you missed out and rental won. Some see that as a good thing (the secret nature of the value). I don't. That why I prefer a points system where I know what I have and what it can get. Simple and easy to use.

I have 2BR RED...FF 315,000 PT...Royal Sea Cliff-Hawaii

I have 2BR Red...VIP FF 315,000 points...Home resort is FF Hawaii Royal Sea Cliff. I guess I will have to see what trade power this really has...bought at developer prices and of course, was told trade power will be very high. I assume this would be true because of location and floating week, so I do have high expections...but as you say...I may never really know until I do an exchange...
Thanks for the response!
Jim

RCI can easily feed its rental business from both Weeks and Points. RCI employees confirm that exchange deposits of high demand weeks that have nothing to do with any of the extraneous items RCI provides these days are being put directly into the rental pool.

There are issues of concern with both off season and high season rentals.

High season rentals mean exchangers have less of the high demand inventory to trade into. This hurts the exchange system.

Low season rentals flood the market and drive already marginal prices further downward. This discourages people from owning these weeks to exchange and undermines resort finances as these people bail out.

Remember that, especially in overbuilt areas, ''red'' weeks can also be low season. On the flip side, there are also some blue weeks that can be middling popular. Color codes do not come close to telling the full story of potential impact on resorts.

Points really doen't help resorts either. Points salesmen don't use the ''buy two weeks, pay two m/f's and traide into one'' argument that sometimes appears on these boards because they have learned that that dog doesn't hunt. They sell off season points weeks on the basis of 9000 point crossover trades into the 45 day window of the Weeks system, something that is also being seriously undermined by RCI's rental activities. Those weeks are now going more and more into the rental pot instead of for exchanges.

RonaldCol said:

The issue should really be: is RCI renting out high demand weeks below maintainance fees?

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If they are renting high demand weeks that belong in the exchange system, this is a problem for exchangers no matter what they rent them for.

If they are flooding the market with lower demand weeks, this threatens resort's finances, and ultimately comes home to roost with their members who end up paying higher m/f's to make up for those who bail out to take advantage of cheaper rentals.

ramsark said:

What would happen if you wanted a certain RCI resort... then RCI tell you there was no availability for exchange...then you find this same resort has availability for RCI rental of the same unit size and time frame you want to exchange? Is the inventory of resort designated rental/exchange at some point each year. I don't mind RCI renting out "unused" inventory...but really seems unfair that rental customers would have priority over TS owners. BUT, we pay each year whether we get what we want or not. Newbie question...and this may be exactly why everyone is so upset about the rentals. I welcome comment.
Thanks!
Jim

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RCI is funny about what they offer exchange requesters. If the deposit you made for the request is a much nicer place than the requested one, the RCI person will not see availability for you. Another person who deposited a plainer resort could get it though. RCI is tougher about trading down than trading up. These days, though, they aren't offering as many trades up as they used to. So if your deposit didn't qualify for size, season or something else, they may turn you down too.

If nobody "qualifies" for an interval, they will offer it using other means, including Extra Vacations, Last Call and external rental.

Also, owner associations and developers may ask RCI to find renters for vacant units. Those would never be offered to an exchange requester unless they told RCI to allow it.

RCI rental - follow the money

Lee B said:

Also, owner associations and developers may ask RCI to find renters for vacant units. Those would never be offered to an exchange requester unless they told RCI to allow it.

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Lee, I bolded part of your statement, where you mention that some weeks are rentals only and cannot be exchanged. Do you know this, or are you guessing? Do you know if the HOA cares what RCI does with a vacant week?

Watergate taught me the phrase "follow the money". Hence I am curious how the rental revenue is divided. Do you have details about this?

Until I saw your posting, I assumed that RCI keeps all of the rental revenue. I assumed they were taking weeks from the exchange pool and renting them out, because they are greedy and rentals bring in more money than the $149 exchange fee.

timeos2 said:

Ramsark - The situation you describe should mean that the week you deposited isn't at least as valuable as the week you desire so, although it is in the pool, you don't have the trade power to claim it. Thus it goes to the rental pool if no other equal request was made. In points that doesn't happen if you have enough points you get the time. That is far too simplified but that is the bottom line.

The logical next question is what IS the trade power of your deposit? No one knows and thats the main problem with weeks. It is secret and you have to take their word for the fact that you missed out and rental won.

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Absolute baloney. Use your common sense. How can the relative trade power or value of any particular resort be determined in an environment where many of the deposit weeks are simply skimmed out of the system and rented out?

Unknown shifting sands

Aldo said:

Absolute baloney. Use your common sense. How can the relative trade power or value of any particular resort be determined in an environment where many of the deposit weeks are simply skimmed out of the system and rented out?

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I'm far from a believer in the system used to detirmine what is excess inventory. But if you choose to deposit in weeks you are accepting the fact that there is a ranking procedure and historical guidelines that tells the exchange company what will get claimed by qualifying weeks and what won't that is continuously changing like sand in a windstorm. If you don't believe that system works don't use it! Being secret we have no way to know if it's fairly applied consistantly or used to the advantage of the exchange broker. It is what they say happens so take it or leave it.

Common sense tells me that given the chance to manipulate the process in secret somehow it will magically come out with valuable excess that is available to rent to the advantage of the broker. And that seems to be happening. Call me a skeptic but I prefer a system with the values clearly exposed to the users.

From reports by RCI insiders, they are simply snatching deposits of desirable weeks and putting them in the rental pool. That can happen just as easily in either Weeks or Points. Points supporters have a false sense of security if they think it can't happen equally in both systems. RCI rentals are a clear and present danger to the future of exchanging.

timeos2 said:

I'm far from a believer in the system used to detirmine what is excess inventory. But if you choose to deposit in weeks you are accepting the fact that there is a ranking procedure and historical guidelines that tells the exchange company what will get claimed by qualifying weeks and what won't that is continuously changing like sand in a windstorm. If you don't believe that system works don't use it! Being secret we have no way to know if it's fairly applied consistantly or used to the advantage of the exchange broker. It is what they say happens so take it or leave it.

Common sense tells me that given the chance to manipulate the process in secret somehow it will magically come out with valuable excess that is available to rent to the advantage of the broker. And that seems to be happening. Call me a skeptic but I prefer a system with the values clearly exposed to the users.

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timeos2 said:

Why would they? They aren't in the business to leave money on the table. If you see resorts renting for less that the annual fee it's because thats the rate they (who ever is renting - not just RCI) feel the market will accept. Just because a maintenance fee is high at any given resort doesn't mean that is the rental market price. Hopefully the fee is less but in reality it may be more if thats the market. Unlike weeks trades the value isn't one for one. In rentals the real market speaks and sets the going rate. Too low and the inventory flies away in a few minutes - too high and it just sits until expiration. Renters have to be knowledgeable to set the price at the right point. The annual fee doesn't matter to renters as they shop.

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*********************
Originally Posted by RonaldCol
Generally, you will find garbage weeks of timeshares are rented below maintenance and high demand weeks are rented out at higher than maintenance fees.

The issue should really be: is RCI renting out high demand weeks below maintainance fees?
*********************

John, you responded to my posting with, I believe, a slight misunderstanding. I wrote "... is RCI renting out high demand weeks below maintenance fees?"

I used the word "high demand" week, not "high maintenance fees week".

I've noticed that resorts that are in Hawaii, compared to resorts that are in the middle of nowhere, both with near-identical maintenance fees, will find their way to the RCI rental pool much quicker for well over their maintenance fees. The no-where, low demand timeshare weeks, will find their path of least resistance going to the public rental pool first at below their maintenance fees, but above some sort of internal RCI magic profit number. These no-where weeks might be routed to last call in RCI first to give RCI members a false shot at a timeshar resort.

I Don't See How Renting helps the Points Owners more than the Weeks Onwers.

timeos2 said:

Common sense tells me that given the chance to manipulate the process in secret somehow it will magically come out with valuable excess that is available to rent to the advantage of the broker. And that seems to be happening. Call me a skeptic but I prefer a system with the values clearly exposed to the users.

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I don't see how renting is an advantage to either the Points owners or the Weeks owners. All renting does is to put less weeks in either the Week's and/or Point's Pools.

The one thing that the Points System does is allow RCI to conceal the renting of Owner's Weeks.

Walt

Walt said:

...The one thing that the Points System does is allow RCI to conceal the renting of Owner's Weeks.

Walt

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I'm confused. How did Points help "conceal" renting Embassy units? The Maui Embassy is in Weeks not in Points.

In fact, I think you have it backwards. As a Points owner, if I put 70,000 points in, I am going to get 70,000 of points back. There is no such guarantee in Weeks. If RCI (or II) were to get the average Weeks owner to trade down, this would "conceal" the fact that they are taking some of the top deposits (the Embassy Maui?) and renting them.

[Please note: I am not saying anything about what actually happened. But, it is Weeks, with its curtain of secrecy, that would allow "skimming."]

Read my post again and tell me what you think about Madge's Answer.

Roger said:

I'm confused. How did Points help "conceal" renting Embassy units? The Maui Embassy is in Weeks not in Points.

In fact, I think you have it backwards. As a Points owner, if I put 70,000 points in, I am going to get 70,000 of points back. There is no such guarantee in Weeks. If RCI (or II) were to get the average Weeks owner to trade down, this would "conceal" the fact that they are taking some of the top deposits (the Embassy Maui?) and renting them.

[Please note: I am not saying anything about what actually happened. But, it is Weeks, with its curtain of secrecy, that would allow "skimming."]

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Roger,

Please read this post again. Tell me what you thing about Madge's answer. Also please tell me what advantage does Points Owners have because RCI is renting Owner's Weeks?

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12717&highlight=Walt

Walt,

The units offered in Extra Vacations (or a vendor such as SnapTravel) may not always be the specific units that were deposited for non-exchange transactions. For example, the member who requests a cruise exchange may be using a deposited week that was long ago assigned to another RCI member. When this is the case, an equivalent unit is taken in place of that member's deposited unit. Equivalence here is based on our standard Trading Power guidelines.

I responded to this question here as well.
__________________
~ Madge

What is equal to Hawaii in March, April, and May?

RCI is using the Points as a reason to justify renting of Owner's Weeks.

Walt

PS

I still find Madge's Answer Unbelievable. I also believe that my ASK RCI thread proves that RCI is renting out Owner's Weeks.

I don't see anything in Madge's response that refers to these cruises being taken by Points members. RCI offers cruises to Weeks members. That is why she only mentions cruises and not any of the other things Points members can trade their points for.

In the end, Points members can back what they put in, point for point. If skimming occurs, Weeks is what makes it possible. There is nothing in the Weeks system that guarantees that RCI/II have to give back the same value that the owners put in.

(I said this before, but back in '96, my wife said that RCI had every incentive to get people to trade down so that they could use the top units for profit. That was before Points even existed. Her whole attitude toward time sharing changed when we joined Points. She now feels we are getting back the full value of our timeshare.)