Worldmark or Wyndham points?

I have been struggling to decide about buying a resale timeshare between Worldmark by Wyndham or Wyndham points. There are too many of both on resale but an experienced opinion and advisement would really help here and will be appreciated.

OpenSky2012 said:

I have been struggling to decide about buying a resale timeshare between Worldmark by Wyndham or Wyndham points. There are too many of both on resale but an experienced opinion and advisement would really help here and will be appreciated.

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Easy, pick the one that has the resorts where you want to go. You missed a few, I do not know them all but Shell Vacation Club (now owned by Wyndham), the Outrigger Club, Wyndham Asia Pasific, and others that are overseas, all in the Wyndham Worldwide family of companies. They do not necessarily have user rights across the various system.

Easy, pick the one that has the resorts where you want to go.

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This, exactly.

In general, if you live in the eastern US, Wyndham probably has more resorts in easy striking distance. If you live in the western US, WorldMark. In both cases, focus only on "club" resorts, not affiliate/associate/whatever.

or you could do the crazy thing like me..I bought in both systems

To choose you have already gotten the best advice, Choose the system that has the resorts you want to visit. But thats getting more difficult as there are more and more of the resorts are now "split" resorts with inventory in both systems. Recently some of the inventory in eleven Worldmark resorts (400 units) was moved into Club Wyndham; making them "split" resorts. Daytona and Avenue Plaza (New Orleans) and Lake Tahoe, were already split resorts. There are also locations where Wyndham and Worldmark both have resorts close to eachother. San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas, New Braunfels/San Antinio Tx, Branson, Orlando and Hawaii. So, to base your decision on where the resorts are, may not work for you, because either system might work for you

Here are some other considerations.

* Worldmark costs more to buy in and seems to hold value better than Club Wyndham.

* Worldmark mf is cheaper than Club Wyndham

* Worldmark owners can buy and sell one time use credits to each other so its possible to buy a small account to keep fixed expenses down, and buy one time use credits as you need them. You cant do this with Club Wyndham

* Although neither system can be called 5-star when describing their resorts. I would generally give more stars to the Club Wyndham properties (although that line is blurring as more of the resorts become "split" resorts. and Worldmark is catching up so to speak..They are now adding tvs to the bedrooms and WI-FI service is more common

* Worldmark is more flexible, allowing short stays and very long stays

* Both systems have very liberal cancellation policies.

* Both systems allow you to "roll over" unused points or credits, but with Worldmark its automatic (credits are good for two years) With Club Wyndham you need to plan ahead and pay $39 to add your points to what they call the "points credit pool" where they are good for 3 years

* Worldmark dosent charge transaction fees or guest fees. (Club Wyndham charges if you exceed your account annual allocation of these)

* Both systems charge for housekeeping if you exceed you annual allocation

* Worldmark owners can exchange their credits in II and RCI. Club Wyndham owners, with few exceptions are limited to RCI, but the Wyndham program fee (part of your annual mf) includes an RCI account.. Worldmark owners have to open an account and pay the annual fee directly

* Most Club Wyndham ownerships are deeded, ie you will have a deed recorded in a local courthouse as evidence of your ownership. (Club Wyndham access is an exception). In Worldmark the Club holds the deeds, not the owners

* Im sure that there are other differences, but these are the ones that come to mind as I have my first cup of coffee this morning

Amazed

Ron,
I am once again amazed at your knowledge of Wyndham timeshares. I’ve been to numerous owner updates over the last ten years and didn’t learn near as much about timeshares as I have from your posts since I joined TUG a week ago. Where do you find all this information? During a recent update I asked about the Club Wyndham Access properties but the rep either didn’t know much about them or they weren’t available for him to sell. In your opinion, what is better, a deeded timeshare or one where the Club holds the deed? --Ron

rsphelps said:

Ron,
I am once again amazed at your knowledge of Wyndham timeshares. I’ve been to numerous owner updates over the last ten years and didn’t learn near as much about timeshares as I have from your posts since I joined TUG a week ago. --Ron

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Welcome to Tug!

Can't answer your questions about Wyndham/Worldmark - I'm sure Ron and other Tuggers will chime in.

Happy New Year!

Richard

rsphelps said:

Ron,
I am once again amazed at your knowledge of Wyndham timeshares. I’ve been to numerous owner updates over the last ten years and didn’t learn near as much about timeshares as I have from your posts since I joined TUG a week ago. Where do you find all this information? During a recent update I asked about the Club Wyndham Access properties but the rep either didn’t know much about them or they weren’t available for him to sell. In your opinion, what is better, a deeded timeshare or one where the Club holds the deed? --Ron

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Some of what Ive learned is from making my own mistakes, some I learned from talking to wyndhams reservation desk, some I learned by asking questions here on TUG as well as the Wyndham owners forum http://forums.atozed.com and the worldmark owners forum www.wmowners.com. I followed Lindas advice and read and reread the owners directory, My copy is falling apart, Ive used it to look stuff up so much. but the way I learned most of what I know about Wyndham is by answering questions posed here on TUG...If I dont know the answer, I look it up or call Wyndham to get the answer... I learned a long time ago the best way to learn something is to try and teach it...so that what I do

Regarding deeded vs non deeded (like Worldmark or Club Wyndham access) and which is better...Frankly I dont care as long as I get the use of the thing; and I do either way. One benefit of the club approach is that you dont face the risk of a maintenance fee increase or special assessment at a particular resort like you would if you held the deed. In a Club if one resort has a big mf increase or SA its spread among all the owners of the club.

Perhaps this will answer your question better. In the last few months I have contracted for over 2 million Club Wyndham Access points and I own 66000 Worldmark credits...Im not afraid of the club structure

By the way the reason you will learn more here on TUG is that we arent trying to sell you more points like they are at the Wyndham owner updates..just take everything we say with a grain of salt...we all have our own prejudices, and we all make mistakes

Where do you live? If east coast buy Wyndham, if west coast by Worldmark. No matter how you think you are going to use the resorts, in a few years you'll be glad to be able to jump in the car drive a couple of hours and spent a few nights or a week at a resort with no exchange hassles.
Chris

OpenSky2012 said:

I have been struggling to decide about buying a resale timeshare between Worldmark by Wyndham or Wyndham points. There are too many of both on resale but an experienced opinion and advisement would really help here and will be appreciated.

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All of the following should be considered - an advantage in one category may trade off for a disadvantage in another:

1. WM has a lot more resorts in the West. Wyndham Vacation Resorts (WVR) has more in the East. When you look at the resorts, ignore the affiliate resorts as those are just token dots on the map.

2. WM has much higher initial purchase cost and lower ongoing expenses. WVR has much lower initial investment and higher ongoing expenses (maintenance fees are higher; it has all kinds of other fees that WM doesn't). If your personal financial situation is such that you can afford the initial investment for WM, you have a much truer choice. If paying a few thousand dollars now would put a drain on your financial situation, you may be limited more to WVR. Afterall, timeshare is just prepaid vacation and should be prioritized much lower than food, housing and many other basic necessities.

On the other hand, if the higher ongoing expenses will cause hardship, then you need to stay away from WVR.

3. WM has more flexibilities in ownership: you may rent in and out points very easily in years where you need more or less than your account size. In WVR you may only sell/buy to adjust size.

4. WM has much higher exchange power in both II (WVR doesn't trade much in II) and RCI if you want to exchange in years when you want to go out of the system.

5. Because WM has no home resort, it is more important that you learn how to book the popular resorts if those are where you want to go. On the other hand, if you live near some of the less popular resorts, you are almost guranteed easier booking and more ready availability.

WVR has home resorts, giving home resort owners more of a safety net.

6. WM has stronger governing documents protecting owners, and a more activist owner community which the Developer is more wary of.

7. WM is easier to sell at the end. With WVR you usually have to sweeten a giveawy with additional incentives.

So much of information on this forum. Thank you all.

All of you have a great new year 2013. Very good information from all. Ron and LLW have given a whole lot of insightful detail.

I am in Texas. I travel mostly to West and hence WM suites me more for that reason and many other reasons detailed. RCI also helps to book other resorts I believe. I am going to be new timeshare guy and will use this forum to pick your brains and encyclopedia here

I went to one of the presentations in Orlando where I learned about this. I only knew the old time definition of timeshare of specific week and specific location. Thanks to the presentation that I got to think about this more in the current definition. I signed one there on site and cancelled that in 2 days as I learned about the resale (Thanks to internet ).

I am thinking to go slow and pick up a Worldmark 7000 points as I saw a good post on this forum. Learn more and build more with experience.

One thing is for sure: I will only buy resale.

Once again mates: Thanks a lot.

One more question on this

I was told there is something called "Last Call" in Wyndham for Wyndham owners. Does a WM resale make this Last Call option available to the buyers?

Someone else will have to speak as to what Wyndham's Last Call is. WorldMark has Bonus Time, which is a booking for cash rather than using your WorldMark credits. Bonus Time can be booked at all WorldMark resorts two weeks or less before the check in date. The maximum Bonus Time reservation length is four days. It is subject to availability which will vary greatly depending on the resort and season.

With the exception of some reportedly "Standard" accounts, all WorldMark owners can book Bonus Time whether purchased from the developer or resale. I have never seen a "Standard" WorldMark account and have never heard of anyone actually owning one. Any resale account you purchases should be a Premier account, making it eligible for Bonus Time. You can find more information concerning WorldMark Bonus Time here.

OpenSky2012 said:

I was told there is something called "Last Call" in Wyndham for Wyndham owners. Does a WM resale make this Last Call option available to the buyers?

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RCI, a wholly owned subsidiary of Wyndham World Wide offers last call vacations at very discounted rate. Obviously, for most part quiet weeks, small units at low demand resorts.

If you are a Wyndham points owner you get a "free" RCI membership but have to pay $98 today, $108 tomorrow minimum POA fee!

If a WorldMark owner costs $89.00! If you want access to resorts outside of WorldMark around 86 resorts may be worth while although several exchange companies. Check other posts here for observations/experiences.

WM Bonus Time

cotraveller said:

WorldMark has Bonus Time, which is a booking for cash rather than using your WorldMark credits. Bonus Time can be booked at all WorldMark resorts two weeks or less before the check in date. The maximum Bonus Time reservation length is four days. It is subject to availability which will vary greatly depending on the resort and season.

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Thanks Fred. I didn't know about this Bonus Time. Here are a few questions if you could spare a few minutes.
- I am sure the Bonus Time reservation is relatively cheaper compared to booking from regular internet booking for a quick Trip (subject to availability off course). Any idea how is the cost of these Bonus Time?
- Is there a limit of a number of times you could use these Bonus Time?
- Do they list those available resorts, locations and cost of reserving them for you to choose from?
- You said the length is four days. Is that the total length in a year or number of days each bonus time booking?

The post after you by Paco, explained the Last call. I believe the Last Calls were said to be listed by Wyndham as per the agent. I hope WM lists the Bonus Time items.

Last Calls. Are they lomited to book in terms of weeks?

pacodemountainside said:

RCI, a wholly owned subsidiary of Wyndham World Wide offers last call vacations at very discounted rate. Obviously, for most part quiet weeks, small units at low demand resorts.

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Not available in days?

OpenSky2012 said:

The post after you by Paco, explained the Last call. I believe the Last Calls were said to be listed by Wyndham as per the agent. I hope WM lists the Bonus Time items.

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Last Call is an RCI feature available to all RCI members, including WM owners. The agent was stretching the truth to make it sound good for you to buy Wyn from him.

WM's Bonus Time uses cash to buy last minute vacation. The price is 5.4 cents per credit (with a minimum of $40 per night), effective 1-1-13. Normal bookings use credits instead, although Wyn (as the Developer of WM) has added many other cash features at various times, all more expensive than BT.

All availability within the last 14 days is bookable as BT, in addition to credits and other options. When you see inventory for certain dates and want to book, you hit the "book it" button, and all options for those days are listed for you.

Also, each month there is a list of "Inventory Specials" for 2 months in advance (e.g. in January the March list is published to add to the previously published Feb list), priced the same as BT (5.4 cents). You may book those up to 60 days in advance.

Come to www.wmowners.com, and you will find a lot more info about WM.

Wyndham does not call it "Last Call", but they have last-minute deals at 15-60 days out. So, if you want a last-minute (in 2 weeks) reservation, you can get it for a discount. Of course, you get what is available, may not be what you want (1 bedroom vs 2 bedroom), but it's something.

TS

We're also owners of WM and Wyndham points. I much prefer the WM system---seems easier to learn ( a lot less wierd rules and regs---like Wyndham makes you bank your year's points before the year begins if you don't think you'll use them all in that year unless you're VIP; can't borrow the next years points with Wyndham --- unless you're within a certain time period and pay an additional fee; booking fees with Wyndham (transaction fees which I believe they charge non-VIPS, as well as housekeeping fees (WM has no transaction fees, but does have housekeeping fees, too); Wyndham has a slight edge on cancellation policies if you book vacations far out, but disadvantage if you book close to travel --- up to 14 days out you can get all your points back, within 14 days you loose them all---WM has a scale depending on when you booked the reservations (more then 90 days out there's a 30 day out cancellation period, 10 days at 90 - 14 days out, 5 if booked within 14 days; no guest fee with WM, but there is one with Wyndham (asuming you're sending family or friends and not going yourself); points only good for 1 year with Wyndham instead of 3 like Worldmark unless you pay to "pool" your Wyndham points; cancelled reservations points in Wydham have different usage rules then regular or pooled points, WM points are the same when cancelled as before cancelled; booking time with WM is 13 months out for everyone, but 13 or 10 months out with Wyndham depending on if you're going back to "your resort" or using VIP advanced reservation priority privalege (yes, confusing!), ... ) . ANd it goes on and on!!!!

There are discounted points locations at short notice with Wyndham, but --- like WM bonus time --- they are pretty limited. Some resort you'll have a really hard time WM finding bonus time at---Oregon coast in the summer for example, but lots at Lake of the Ozarks in Mo. WM offers a FAX program, too, where you can book even farther out for something like $.08/point, as well as the Invertory specials. They also have Monday Madness with bonus-time-like offers good for about 11 months out. Wyndham has good VIP last minute booking deals, but you won't get that on resale points so I won't get into them.

As for WM bonus time rules: " An Owner may use as many Bonus Time reservations as possible within the following limitations. An Owner may have only one Bonus Time reservation until the reservation has been completed. If the Bonus Time vacation plan is to stay at more than one Club Resort, then the Owner may make the number of reservations needed, provided the combination of these reservations is for consecutive nights, and that the Bonus Time does not exceed four (4) nights. An Owner with 6,000 through 19,000 Vacation Credits may use only one Weekend Only Bonus Time reservation each calendar quarter. Owners with 20,000 through 29,000 Vacation Credits shall be entitled to two (2) Weekend Only reservations. One Weekend Only Bonus Time reservation shall be added for each additional block of 10,000 Vacation Credits owned by an Owner."

You can book Exotic locations (like Hawaii ) on bonus time 30 days out. Wyndham has no resort on Maui and Worldmark has only a few units on Oahu.

Exchanges to crowded resort areas like Orlando and Las Vegas are plentiful in either club.

I find the online booking easier with WM because it shows what days are available without having to list how many days you want. With Wyndham, unless you put in 1 day (which often isn't allowed), you don't know if there's only one day available, or 2, or 3, or 4 ... without going back and entering each amount in separtely.

WM does seem to have a better deal with last minute exchanges--- within 45 days any exchange is only 4000 points. With Wyndham there's no last minute exchange discount on points.

Having said all that and probably sounding like I hate Wyndham---we are Wyndham VIPs and have learned to really stretch our points. We go to Hawaii every year and usually only use half the amount of points required with Wyndham on Kauai. Although this year we are going to Maui staying at WM Kihei and have waitlisted 8 of our 16 days there. Waitlist with WM is great and slowly I've added 7 of those days onto our original reservation in like units which they're able to push together to eliminate room changes and extra housekeeping fees. I'm confident I'll get that last day before our trip a little over a month from now.

I've also had an RCI waitlist going for Maui with no success, but WM has come through so no big deal. Exchanges to Kauai are pretty easy. But don't count on exchanges with RCI (or II) if you are limited in when and where you want to go.

LLW said:

Come to www.wmowners.com, and you will find a lot more info about WM.

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I went to WMOwners.com and found a wealth of information on WM. I also found that you are one of the valuable contributor to the informative forum.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot slabeaume for taking time and listing very useful differences / features of Wyn and WM.

Clearly most of you are pro (or have become very much aware of the systems. As a beginner, I am deciding to go for WM. I may also think of trying another package with Hilton later to get some exposure.

Thanks a lot again.

Interesting Topic: one in which I am also trying to decide.

In the beginning - it looks like the suggestion is to buy where you want to stay (or resorts closer to you)... but towards the end, it looks like most posters say there are more advantages to WM over Wyndham...

Or did I misread the posts?

I live in the Midwest (Chicago) so neither East or West Coast... so I'm still torn

Myxdvz said:

Interesting Topic: one in which I am also trying to decide.

In the beginning - it looks like the suggestion is to buy where you want to stay (or resorts closer to you)... but towards the end, it looks like most posters say there are more advantages to WM over Wyndham...

Or did I misread the posts?

I live in the Midwest (Chicago) so neither East or West Coast... so I'm still torn

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I used to live between Baltimore and Washington. I worked in Washington and I played in Washingon. Thats where I went to High School and whers most of my family lived friends lived. When I left home I almost always turned south on I-95 I didnt know beans about Baltimore.

When you leave Chicago which way do you turn. Do you go east or west

I own in both systems and although I agree the Worldmark system is the one I prefer. The resorts I want to visit would be the trump card.

If you intend on spending a lot of vacations at the Florida beaches..buy Wyndham, If you have to have Washington DC or the North East ski resorts, it has to be Wyndham. You should also know that Wyndham has a property in the Wisconsin Dells complete with an indoor water park. (think swimming pools and water slides in the winter) That seems to me to be a perfect drive to, weekend get-away for you...Also Worldmark and Wyndham both have inventory at the Galena resort

Your call...good luck

Buying WM 7000 at WM Las Vegas Tropicana

Annual Fees 514.16. Demand color code is said to be Red-High.

Paperwork is sent to WM and waiting for approval.

I haven't visited the resort and am not aware of it much.

Anyone knows this resort? I am curious to know if I did OK

OpenSky2012 said:

Annual Fees 514.16. Demand color code is said to be Red-High.

Paperwork is sent to WM and waiting for approval.

I haven't visited the resort and am not aware of it much.

Anyone knows this resort? I am curious to know if I did OK

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You don't give enough information for anyone to let you know if you did OK. How much did you pay? How many points available to use?

I don't think you can go wrong with Worldmark but it is recommended that you read everything you can here and wmowners.com. Timesharing is confusing and requires a lot of homework to maximize your use. One thing you need to know is that you bought a membership. You did not buy a specific resort in Las Vegas.

RX8 said:

You don't give enough information for anyone to let you know if you did OK. How much did you pay? How many points available to use?

I don't think you can go wrong with Worldmark but it is recommended that you read everything you can here and wmowners.com. Timesharing is confusing and requires a lot of homework to maximize your use. One thing you need to know is that you bought a membership. You did not buy a specific resort in Las Vegas.

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My bad for not mentioning that. I paid $1500 and transfer fees. I agree and understand on buying a point based membership. I am not aware of the next steps. Waiting for WM board to approve the transfer. Once I get that notification, I would need to know that next steps. Any guidance for the next steps (WMOwners Forum post, any link or text) would help.