Wyndham Canterbury Class Action Lawsuit [merged]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=9003521

However, the couple is also very troubled. They claim they were tricked into buying more timeshares for the resort and it's put them deep into debt.

"They said we owed $96,000. I was shocked!" said Donna.

How is different from any timeshare? They're all like this and don't pay full price.

oops

Not noit not

Informative link. Thx for posting

RMitchell said:

Not noit not

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Easy to correct a header. Just click 'edit' on your post, then 'Go Advanced' and correct away and click 'Save'.

Also,Thanks for the link, but is comes as no mystery to TUGgers who know their tactics. Kinda like preaching to the choir.

Jim

The "reduce your interest" tactic is exactly the one my friend fell for...Same story, she didnt realize that she had purchased more points (at the promised lower interest rate) until the bills started coming. She was able to get Wyndham to take back the new purchase.

While I feel their pain and agree that they were probably victims of an aggressive sales team, they admitted to signing contracts without reading them....sad, especially for two teachers.

The interesting thing is their attorney refers to them as confused senior citizens.

It is also a double whammy. Not only do they owe $95,000, they also owe $6,000 per year in dues.

What timeshare costs $6000 in annual dues?

Here's what the suit claims back in July 2010, a sales person told the couple they could qualify for a lower interest rate on their loan. There were so many papers and legal terminology the couple said they didn't read all of the papers or understand what they signed. Only later they realized they'd actually purchased more timeshares, worth another $30,000.

Tom and Donna now owe $95,000 on their timeshare loan, plus $500 a month in maintenance fees. They had to borrow on their Chico home to keep up the payments.

Wyndham Canterbury Class Action Lawsuit

I called Donna and Tom Crook today. The couple is from Chico, CA. I called because I get daily Google searches on Wyndham related topics.

My search today pointed me to an article from abc7nes KGO-TV, San Francisco. The Feb 22, 2013 article “Chico couple files class action suit against timeshare company” caught my eye. “The suit claims Wyndham salespeople were targeting senior citizens, using deceptive practices to sell timeshares they couldn't afford.” After reading the article and watching the accompanying video, I decided to see if I could find them on switchboard and give them a call.

After finding them I called and talked for about 45 minutes about their current condition concerning their purchase of Wyndham Canterbury and about TUG. My main purpose for calling them was to let them know that there is a bulletin board, TUG, with a great deal of information and filled with posts describing situations similar to theirs where unsuspecting vacationers had purchased very expensive Wyndham properties through sales rep who mislead them.

The Crook’s story has many twists and turns and fits this pattern exactly.

About 10 months ago they initiated a class action lawsuit against Wyndham. It has been in the hands or the pockets of the lawyers ever since.

I hope that the Crooks decide to find and explore TUG. If so, maybe we can get a good insight into their case and what the rewards and pitfalls are of being a part of such a lawsuit. I am sure that they will welcome anyone who wants to join the class action lawsuit.

Jim

There's another thread on TUG on this topic

here

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187906


The article and a news video is here

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=9003521

DazedandConfused said:

It is also a double whammy. Not only do they owe $95,000, they also owe $6,000 per year in dues.

What timeshare costs $6000 in annual dues?

Here's what the suit claims back in July 2010, a sales person told the couple they could qualify for a lower interest rate on their loan. There were so many papers and legal terminology the couple said they didn't read all of the papers or understand what they signed. Only later they realized they'd actually purchased more timeshares, worth another $30,000.

Tom and Donna now owe $95,000 on their timeshare loan, plus $500 a month in maintenance fees. They had to borrow on their Chico home to keep up the payments.

Click to expand...

The Crooks own 1.5 million points at Canterbury and are Presidential Reserve owners. There were sales at Canterbury and then at Bali Hai Villas. A Presidential Reserve was granted with the purchase at Bali Hai Villas, then disallowed then reinstated. This coincided with the buying then rescinding at Bali Hai Villas. The points were then moved to Canterbury.

WOW! But then again, I'm not surprised....

morrisjim said:

WOW! But then again, I'm not surprised....

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I'm not surprised either. I was at Bali Hai for christmas. And I went through a "owner's update". And I really don't mind them because I know they are not going to fool me into giving them more money. I just like to waste there time. It took less than an hour and I made $75. But I know for people less in the know, they could get taken. The big sales pitch they gave me, since my points are fully paid off, was to trade in my "really expensive" CWA points for some much cheaper Bali Hai points. They showed me what I was paying in MF for my CWA and explained that if I did an equity swap, they would take the CWA back at full retail value, and give me more Bali Hai points in return to make me permanent VIP Silver and my maintenance fee would actually be lower than what I was paying now. Even that part wasn't completely true since they were comparing my CWA with the Program fee and Bali Hai without. I will admit the MF wasn't a whole lot more than what I am paying. What she failed to mention at all is that I would have to pay them $33,000.00. It was very clearly on the paper she laid in front of me. But I had already made the calculations while she was away printing up the offer and without even looking at the paper I said to her. "Let me guess, all I have to give you is about $33,000.00, right, I don't think so." she looked at the paper and at me. And I was off to gifting. It was actually kind of fun. My wife hates the owner updates though.

markb53 said:

I'm not surprised either. I was at Bali Hai for christmas. And I went through a "owner's update". And I really don't mind them because I know they are not going to fool me into giving them more money. I just like to waste there time. It took less than an hour and I made $75. But I know for people less in the know, they could get taken. The big sales pitch they gave me, since my points are fully paid off, was to trade in my "really expensive" CWA points for some much cheaper Bali Hai points. They showed me what I was paying in MF for my CWA and explained that if I did an equity swap, they would take the CWA back at full retail value, and give me more Bali Hai points in return to make me permanent VIP Silver and my maintenance fee would actually be lower than what I was paying now. Even that part wasn't completely true since they were comparing my CWA with the Program fee and Bali Hai without. I will admit the MF wasn't a whole lot more than what I am paying. What she failed to mention at all is that I would have to pay them $33,000.00. It was very clearly on the paper she laid in front of me. But I had already made the calculations while she was away printing up the offer and without even looking at the paper I said to her. "Let me guess, all I have to give you is about $33,000.00, right, I don't think so." she looked at the paper and at me. And I was off to gifting. It was actually kind of fun. My wife hates the owner updates though.

Click to expand...

I have the same problem you do, Mark...I really enjoy the owner updates, and believe it or not, I would buy from them if the deal was right (if they could reduce my monthly mf by more than the new monthly payment I might bite)

my wife hates these things. Sometimes if she sleeps in, Ill wonder over to the sales room for a little fun, but they wont gift me.

ronparise said:

I have the same problem you do, Mark...I really enjoy the owner updates, and believe it or not, I would buy from them if the deal was right (if they could reduce my monthly mf by more than the new monthly payment I might bite)

my wife hates these things. Sometimes if she sleeps in, Ill wonder over to the sales room for a little fun, but they wont gift me.

Click to expand...

On this deal I would have gone from 182k CWA to 308k Bali Hai. My anual MF would have gone from $995.54 to $1111.88. My maintenance fee per k would have gone from 5.47 to 3.61. Not a bad deal, just not worth $30,000.00 to me. For you if they were willing to do an equity swap on say a million CWA points that you were paying $5470 per year in MF and Converted it to Bali Hai at $3610.00 per year for a $30,000 purchase. The break even point would be 16 years on MF. Still not sure if it would be worth it. But it is closer. I am happy with the points I have. I don't expect to buy more. If I need more in certain years. I will rent. I have already taking some short vacations by renting from a Platinum owner who doesn't have to pay hk fees. works out great.

No it wont work at those numbers, but it would come closer with bigger numbers and a smaller new purchase, say a 126k eoy at $15000

3 million cwa points at $5.45/1000 = $1360/mo
3 million Bali Hai at $3.61/1000 = $902/mo

Thats a $460/mo savings

The payments on a $15000 purchase should be less than that

In sure this is just an academic exercise...I dont think they would work with numbers like that, or they would require a much larger purchase

ronparise said:

No it wont work at those numbers, but it would come closer with bigger numbers and a smaller new purchase, say a 126k eoy at $15000

3 million cwa points at $5.45/1000 = $1360/mo
3 million Bali Hai at $3.61/1000 = $902/mo

Thats a $460/mo savings

The payments on a $15000 purchase should be less than that

In sure this is just an academic exercise...I dont think they would work with numbers like that, or they would require a much larger purchase

Click to expand...

I bet if you wanted to do a CWA equity trade for 3 million points they would want at least a 1 million point new purchase.

I dont understand. If you have buyers remorse you just say " I didn't read the whole contract" and sue somebody? I do understand that Wyndham sales can be deceptive but anyone that has bought a car should have a pretty good idea to read the contract before signing and if you feel like your low on time or pressured at least read it within the first couple of days afterward.

capital city said:

I dont understand. If you have buyers remorse you just say " I didn't read the whole contract" and sue somebody? ....

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There are more and more laws being passed to protect senior citizens from themselves.

Just like someone under 18 can't buy real property without and adult involved, the seniors are starting to get some protection from predators.

What you may not yet understand that as some of us age, simple things that we used to process in our minds are somehow more confusing now.

So it's not just a matter of buyers remorse but the realization that you were flat out lied to, tricked and bilked.

When this happens a lawsuit is in order, I believe.

Add to that the slime that understand this and take advantage.

I know there's no excuse for not reading what you sign but these predators understand that many seniors are very trusting.

Look at Markb53's post where the large sum of money was not even mentioned.

Even if you pay too much for a car from a slick salesman, your $40,000 car is not going to be worth $400 tomorrow. It will be up there in the tens of thousands, unlike timeshare purchases.

capital city said:

I dont understand. If you have buyers remorse you just say " I didn't read the whole contract" and sue somebody? I do understand that Wyndham sales can be deceptive but anyone that has bought a car should have a pretty good idea to read the contract before signing and if you feel like your low on time or pressured at least read it within the first couple of days afterward.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of the same thing.

Of course, if they were lied to and taken advantage of, that is an important issue, but these are two EDUCATED teachers and they both admitted to signing without reading the contracts and they are not some 80 year old nursing home residents.

Heck, once you turn 50, you get an AARP card, does that make 50yo people senior citizens and a special protected class.

I do hope they win the lawsuit, but it may be an uphill battle.

I have an elderly neighbor who likely fell for this as well...she mentioned to me in passing a few years back that she went to something at ocean walk and purchased some $80,000 worth of points (on top of what she had). Ill have to mention this to her.

crazy.

Seems like my parents are also victims of this predatory practice of selling elderly people timeshares they can't afford. I found out last weekend (Feb. 23-24) when my father complained about a bill coming from BillMeLater. They didn't even know that they have an account from that site. I went there and made an account for them just to access the bills. While making the account, I did NOT supply any bank account info, nor credit card info. You had to find that small text that says "Skip".

Once there, I check the purchases. According to their records, they both bought a Wyndham Vacation Resort "product" with about a 19% interest rate. "How did this happened?" I asked. They didn't know. So I scanned through the Wyndham contract. In the field that ask how it's going to be paid, a seeming statement says, "Bill Me Later". Notice the spaces between the three words. I get a feeling, my father thought that was a sentence and not a company name.

Is it legal for Wyndham to create an account for my parents in BillMeLater.com and buy a product for them?

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TwilightStruggler said:

Once there, I check the purchases. According to their records, they both bought a Wyndham Vacation Resort "product" with about a 19% interest rate. "How did this happened?" I asked. They didn't know. So I scanned through the Wyndham contract. In the field that ask how it's going to be paid, a seeming statement says, "Bill Me Later". Notice the spaces between the three words. I get a feeling, my father thought that was a sentence and not a company name.

Is it legal for Wyndham to create an account for my parents in BillMeLater.com and buy a product for them?

-

Click to expand...

While I am sure the sales weasels skipped the details, it sounds like your parents may have known that they would be receiving an additional bill. They just thought it would come from Wyndham, not a third party. Using a third party biller is not illegal. My home mortgage company did that without ever asking me. The bigger question would be whether your parents understood that they had not made full payment.

I was thinking of helping them to pay it off, but geez... it's going to cut into my savings. And my father doesn't want to travel anymore after getting into a car crash coming home from their Wyndham vacation last year. And it was my car I let him borrow.

Anyway, thanks for the response. I'll grill my father what happened at the Wyndham meeting last year.

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DazedandConfused said:

What timeshare costs $6000 in annual dues?

Click to expand...

Any timeshare can cost $6000 a year in maintenance fees, if you own enough of it. For example I own 10 weeks at one resort, my bill is right at $6000

If they owe $95000, I bet this couple owns enough Wyndham points that they can reserve 10 weeks or more

ronparise said:

Any timeshare can cost $6000 a year in maintenance fees, if you own enough of it. For example I own 10 weeks at one resort, my bill is right at $6000

If they owe $95000, I bet this couple owns enough Wyndham points that they can reserve 10 weeks or more

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I understand that, but you would think this would be a major red flag to the members.

If one of the highest annual dues is a 2 bedroom Hawaii beachfront - I am guessing $2,000 per year, then they need 3 weeks to be at $6,000.

You would think they would notice this bare minimal info before signing.

Now, on the other hand, if they thought they were just refinancing an existing debt to a lower interest and had no intention of increasing their annual dues or weeks of use, that is a different story.

I have not had the displeasure of dealing with timeshare sales agents like these sharks so it is a little had to understand how this coupe could get so taken advantage of.

The major issue that I see is that they admit signing documents without reading the contract and NOW they are trying to get out of something they signed. I am certainly not taking Wyndham side here, but they probably have the better lawyers and deeper pockets. No matter, it is a sad story for the retire school teachers.

If I was them, I probably would do a strategic default and stop all payments.

I doubt defaulting on a $95,000 timeshare loan + $6,000 annual dues default will hurt that much and if it does, whatever credit report ding they get is not worth paying $95,000 to fix.

This suit is not just one where an owner wishes that he/she had not made a Wyndham purchase. It is not just one where we can all say, “too bad that you didn’t read all of the fine print, you fool.” But, this is what I see some of you suggesting.

This suit also includes five former Wyndham employees whose jobs were terminated because they complained or were whistle blowers to practices which they felt were fraudulent.

“Patricia Williams is a former salesperson at the San Francisco resort. She claims she was fired for blowing the whistle on fraudulent sales.” And another, Marty Whitney said, “I did report it and I was told to keep my mouth shut or I would be fired.” These employees felt that sales personnel where purposefully tricking seniors such as Donna and Tom Crook.

My experience when buying from the developer is very similar to buying a home at the closing. It seems as if there is a never-ending flow of documents to be signed. If I did not have trust in the closing agents and instead, demanded to read and digest each document, everyone should be prepared to sit around for about a week.

The Wyndham sales persons are masters at getting individuals to trust them as they dish out the fifty plus pages of documents to be signed.

“Whitney said … she was shocked to find sales people tricking Donna, Thomas, and other seniors into signing contracts for more timeshares. They say sales people preyed on the elderly who were easily overwhelmed and confused by complicated documents and fine print.” "When people would come in, they didn't know what they were signing and I was told as long as they could walk in, be on a walker, be in a wheelchair, it really didn't matter," said Whitney.

“Here's what the suit claims back in July 2010, a sales person told the couple they could qualify for a lower interest rate on their loan. There were so many papers and legal terminology the couple said they didn't read all of the papers or understand what they signed. Only later they realized they'd actually purchased more timeshares, worth another $30,000.” “When they complained, another sales person told them Wyndham would guarantee to buy back those points after 11 months if they upgraded to a higher level called "presidential reserve"”.

“So the Crooks agreed to invest another $49,000. However the lawsuit says, 11 months later, Wyndham rejected their request to buy back those shares. It turns out there was no guarantee to buy back points, only Wyndham's right to purchase them.”

Yes, the Crooks should have read every word and understood each one. Each of us should, but we don’t, and the Wyndham sales personnel count on and exploited that fact, according to this lawsuit.

Jim