Any Recent Reviews of Selltimeshare.org & Pacific Property Transfers on Ebay?

Did a search and saw alot of (old) negative comments. Any recent reviews on these two very related companies? I'm sure others have posted this info but here's what I got so far:

Pacific Transfers is a dba of Gray Wolf, registered to the CA SOS as:


Entity Name: GRAY WOLF TRANSFERS, INC.
Entity Number: C3383506
Date Filed: 06/06/2011
Status: ACTIVE
Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA
Entity Address: 2239 W 190TH ST
Entity City, State, Zip: TORRANCE CA 90504
Agent for Service of Process: DAVID M KAREN
Agent Address: 300 ESPLANADE DR #1180
Agent City, State, Zip: OXNARD CA 93036

Which in turn is registered as an escrow company by the CA Dept of Real Estate as the following.

****NOTE**** IN CALIFORNIA AN ESCROW COMPANY MUST BE LICENSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF CORPORATIONS, NOT JUST THE DEPARTMENT OF REAL ESTATE (at least this is my understanding). Based on my licensee search, they are not licensed by the department of corporations, just the department of real estate (presumably for their Timeshare Relief program).

License ID:
01916780

Expiration Date:
06/18/16

License Status:
LICENSED

Corporation License Issued:
06/19/12

Former Name(s):
NO FORMER NAMES

Main Office:
2241 W 190TH ST STE 200 A
TORRANCE, CA 90504

Licensed Officer(s):
DESIGNATED OFFICER
00918000 - Expiration Date: 06/18/16
Bennett, Charles Anthony

DBA
Pacific Property Transfer
ACTIVE AS OF 07/02/2012

Pacific Transfer
ACTIVE AS OF 07/02/2012


Obviously, they were selling timeshares on ebay before those dates. Have they worked out their kinks?

I'm very wary of sending them a cashier's check if I were to "win" an auction, but they have some properties that I'm interested in. Thanks!

Pacific transfer

They closed a Marriott purchase for me and it went very smoothly. They emailed me on a regular basis during the closing process...

I bought 3 Wyndham points contracts that Pacific Transfer handled. 2 went through smoothly, The third we just started over again (the sale was in September)

I know stuff happens so Im not upset that stuff happened here and Im sure that they will get this thing done just like the other two. What does upset me is the poor communication I have to beg for updates

They got decent inventory and usually get things closed. When I ask a question, they find the answer. I ask last week and within an hour, they pulled the ebay auction - saying they didn't like the answers they got from the owner.

Transfer

In a transfer with them right now. So will update as we move along so far very good.

Thanks everyone! Hoping to hear good things as they really do have some properties that look interesting.

Ron --- since September? Ugh, that would really tick me off.

I am very concerned though, that they are not registered with the Dept of Corporations in CA which handles escrow companies. I double checked the California legal requirement for Escrow companies. Escrow agents are required to be licensed by the Dept of Corporations, and they MUST file a bond with the State.

Here's the link to the rules: http://www.corp.ca.gov/Laws/Escrow_Law/License.asp

Since "Pacific Transfers" and Gray Wolf do not show as being licensed by the Dept of Corporations, they are apparently NOT licensed Escrow Agents and therefore are NOT bonded.

Are there other threads on this issue? This seems like a big deal to me. The bond requirement set by California is $25K for a surety bond. There are also solvency obligations. It seems to me that if this company hasn't been vetted and can't be successfully sued under a bond, then maybe people shouldn't been giving them their cashier's checks. Thoughts?

Requirements re financial vetting and surety bond:

"4. Minimum financial requirements. Financial requirements must be demonstrated through submission of audited financial statements that indicate that the company has liquid assets in excess of current liabilities of $25,000 and tangible assets in excess of total liabilities of $50,000. If branch offices are maintained by the escrow agent, the tangible net worth requirement increases by 50% of the requirement for the first branch office and 25% for each additional branch office. Any losses projected by the applicant during the first few months of operation as shown in the applicant's proposed budget must be taken into consideration when calculating the tangible net worth and liquid assets.

5. Surety bonding. Each escrow agent must file with the Commissioner a surety bond of at least $25,000. The bond is intended to be used to pay to the state or any person any amount that is due to the state or such person under the provisions of the Escrow Law. The amount of the bond required may increase up to a maximum of $50,000 depending on the escrow liability of the company. The bond must be increased by $5,000 for each additional licensed office."

Like Ron, I have had a few go smoothly, and then another that has been in timeshare purgatory. I am at five months on one and they haven't even been able to start yet because there was no deed at the county.

I strongly suspect that their inventory is being funneled from David Macmillan relief companies. They ARE NOT checking deeds before they toss them on eBay. This is evidenced by my current fiasco as well as getting an answer recently on another of the same property on whether the deed was verified. The answer was "the paperwork says it's valid". At least the answer was honest. I bought it anyway.

They deal in such high volume they would rather not verify anything and then just have Pac Tran deal with it later. Many times they don't even get estoppels! This obviously is the reason Pac Tran ends up with so many problems.

Pacific Transfer's location is right next to several MacMillan companies. The connections are obvious. When things go right it's all good, when they go wrong you won't hear from them until you call every few hours. Occasionally I ask them why they didnt just let me know when they said they would call me back and the answer is "because she didnt have time to get to it yet". This is an answer a week and 10 calls after they promised to give me an update. If the news is bad they choose to just cut off communication until it gets better.

They won't steal your money. If you don't eventually get what you pay for you will get a refund. Although the hours you will spend trying to communicate may not even make the refund worth it.

It's a cheap way to get a timeshare and I still buy from them although it's usually a relatively small amount.

If you buy from them make sure that you are either not giving full value to the upcoming usage or the usage begins far in the future. You want to allow for the expected long closing and potential long delays.

tcf1947 said:

They closed a Marriott purchase for me and it went very smoothly. They emailed me on a regular basis during the closing process...

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Who was your closing agent? By emailing you on a regular basis do you mean the auto generated emails? I have bought or attempted to buy six properties from them, and I have dealt with four different closing agents. I have never, not even once, received a non automated email from anyone without it being a response to my attempts for an update. This isn't unusual for a closing company but your response makes it sound like they went out of their way to update you.

David MacMillan is the president of Gray Wolf. I was almost positive he was behind Pac Tran due to the address but this confirms it. Pac Tran is just the dba so David MacMillan is the president of Pacific Transfer.

While many MacMillan companies do not hide the fact they are related since the addresses are all clumped, selltimeshare.org is apparently in another state. I speculate that he didn't want it to be so obvious what they were doing on the selling side on eBay. It could be selltimeshare is completely independent but a contractual relationship exists binding the operations together.

Does anyone know Gray Wolf/ Pacific Transfers is bonded as an escrow agent in any state?

lilpooh108 said:

Does anyone know Gray Wolf/ Pacific Transfers is bonded as an escrow agent in any state?

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They do not claim to be. It is safe to assume the answer is no, but in my opinion the question is moot, even if they are. Like all PCC type sellers, they operate as the seller, the closing agent, and the escrow. Different arms of the same operation. It is not like a true escrow where if they fail to deliver then a 3rd party hands you your money back. If you want a true escrow you need to buy directly from an owner.

On their site there is not even the mention of the word "escrow". Not even once. Selltimeshare.org's auctions claim:

» Pacific Transfer has been selected as the closing agent for this transaction.
» They will collect full funds and hold them in escrow during the transfer process.

But on Pac Tran's own site it just says "Collection of Purchase Funds".

There is no escrow. Not even one that pretends.

Saintsfanfl said:

They do not claim to be. It is safe to assume the answer is no, but in my opinion the question is moot, even if they are. Like all PCC type sellers, they operate as the seller, the closing agent, and the escrow. Different arms of the same operation. It is not like a true escrow where if they fail to deliver then a 3rd party hands you your money back. If you want a true escrow you need to buy directly from an owner.

On their site there is not even the mention of the word "escrow". Not even once. Selltimeshare.org's auctions claim:

» Pacific Transfer has been selected as the closing agent for this transaction.
» They will collect full funds and hold them in escrow during the transfer process.

But on Pac Tran's own site it just says "Collection of Purchase Funds".

There is no escrow. Not even one that pretends.

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(1) Under California law, so long as a company acts as an escrow agent, it must be licensed and bonded as one.

In other words, it doesn't matter what the website says or whether "they claim to be" an escrow company. Pacific Transfer is holding the money for purposes of a real estate transaction, with funds to be delivered at the conclusion of a sale. It's an escrow; and since it's not licensed as one, it's operating illegally in California.

The bond matters because the surety will absolutely pay if something goes wrong.

This is probably why Pacific Transfers is not bonded. Surety companies have in house counsel who can easily (and cheaply) sue them to recover the bond amount after it's paid out. Regular people can't. It's cheaper to simply not get vetted, licensed and/or have a bond so that you gamble on someone suing you. I'm guessing most Ebay'ers won't.

Since they also deliberately don't take CC's or Paypal, then they've perfectly set it up where there is no recourse.

(2) The fact that Pacific Transfers is not licensed & bonded as an escrow company appears to be deliberate. Gray Wolf DBA Pacific Transfers has an agent for service of process who is AN ATTORNEY. Gray Wolf is licensed with the CA Dept of Real Estate. The Escrow application & license is just a bit more paperwork; something their attorney would already have as a form.

Since it would have been easy enough to take this extra step, and since they had resources (ie their attorney) to take this extra step, it appears that their failure to be licensed is deliberate.

(3) To be honest---If I were interested in one of their properties under $500 all in, I wouldn't care. But they have a few that cost more than that and my time & sanity is worth more than the savings I'd get by going through them.

I think there's probably a lot more to getting bonded as an escrow company than filing paperwork. You have to show financial responsibility with most bonding companies along with a degree of competence and probably no legal or criminal issues in the past to get the bonding company to underwrite your activiities. I'm not saying that PT wouldn't be able to get bonded but there's more to it than filing a bunch of forms.

I have a closing in process with them now that is over $500. In light of the money involved and my perceived lack of independenace of the closing company, I requested that I be able to pay with PayPal and agreed to pay the additional 3% PayPal fee. I also requested that I be able to cancel the transaction and get a refund if the timeshare was not transferred into my name within 50 days of the date of my payment, which gives me time to contest it with my credit card company. They also sent me a copy of the existing deed and I was able to do a title search to be sure there were no title issues. After a week or so delay, the seller agreed to these terms. I made the payment and they electroncially recorded the deed the same day and said it had been mailed to the resort for transfer on their system. This is an independent resort without a lot of red tape and I've gotten some deals done in the past within 14 days from start to finish so there's no reason for it to take a long time. I'm hoping to get confimration from the resort this week that it's transferred and will report back. However, thus far, I've been pleased with the progress. I won't leave positive feedback on Ebay until all is completed and suggest that everyone else do the same. The lady I've been dealing with at PT via email is Stephanie and she has been very responsive.

Also, I got the email shown below from PT after I questioned whether they were independent from the seller:

"Hi Robert,

No, Selltimeshare uses us for their title transfers but we are owned by a different entity."

Stephanie is, by a million miles, the best associate at PacTran. If they were all like Stephanie, PacTran would be known as the best closing company for timeshares. Unfortunately, so far there is only one Stephanie, and they process more resale timeshares than any other company in the world (guessing, but I think I'm right).

Of course they are legally independent from selltimeshare, but don't you think there is a reason selltimeshare only uses them, and nobody else? Where do you think selltimeshare gets their inventory? When things go wrong PacTran is very careful to take all the blame. It is smart business.

David Macmillan is no dummy, he is the timeshare relief king of the world.

I have caught PacTran referring to "we" and "us" in reference to selltimeshare.org and the eBay ads. I have the emails to prove it. They haven't repeated the error since I discussed it on TUG last year. The proof is in the pudding.

I still do not hesitate to buy from them. I have one stuck in timeshare hell and another for $1k all in that just started. I am just careful to eliminate or undervalue upcoming usage in case something goes wrong.

Great post, thanks for the tips on asking for Paypal.

[QUOTE=Robert D;1446669]I think there's probably a lot more to getting bonded as an escrow company than filing paperwork. You have to show financial responsibility with most bonding companies along with a degree of competence and probably no legal or criminal issues in the past to get the bonding company to underwrite your activiities. I'm not saying that PT wouldn't be able to get bonded but there's more to it than filing a bunch of forms.

I have a closing in process with them now that is over $500. In light of the money involved and my perceived lack of independenace of the closing company, I requested that I be able to pay with PayPal and agreed to pay the additional 3% PayPal fee. I also requested that I be able to cancel the transaction and get a refund if the timeshare was not transferred into my name within 50 days of the date of my payment, which gives me time to contest it with my credit card company. They also sent me a copy of the existing deed and I was able to do a title search to be sure there were no title issues. After a week or so delay, the seller agreed to these terms. I made the payment and they electroncially recorded the deed the same day and said it had been mailed to the resort for transfer on their system. This is an independent resort without a lot of red tape and I've gotten some deals done in the past within 14 days from start to finish so there's no reason for it to take a long time. I'm hoping to get confimration from the resort this week that it's transferred and will report back. However, thus far, I've been pleased with the progress. I won't leave positive feedback on Ebay until all is completed and suggest that everyone else do the same. The lady I've been dealing with at PT via email is Stephanie and she has been very responsive.

Also, I got the email shown below from PT after I questioned whether they were independent from the seller:

"Hi Robert,

No, Selltimeshare uses us for their title transfers but we are owned by a different entity."[/QUOTE]

Update on my transaction. First, my transaction was with Lucky987, not Sellingtimeshare.org but I think they are part of the same group as Selltimeshare.org was shown on the Ebay listing. As mentioned above he agreed to let me pay with PayPal after I agreed to pay an additional 3% to cover the PayPal fee and they also agreed that I could cancel the sale and get a refund if the transaction was not completed within 50 days from the date of payment. I made the payment on PayPal the next day and Pacific Transfers electronically recorded the deed and mailed a copy to the resort the same day that I made the payment. I got confirmation back from the resort within a week that it had been transferred into my name. So, I'm happy to report that this transaction went very well and I would not hestitate to buy another timeshare from them on the same basis where I can pay with PayPal and cancel if not completed in 50 days. I own a lot of weeks at this resort and I know that it doesn't take anywhere near 50 days to get the transfer done but this might not be the case at all resorts. I'm more than happy to pay an additional 3% to be able to pay with PayPal when Ebay resellers are involved and there's some question about the real independence of the closing company. I have left positive feedback on Ebay for this transaction.

Robert - this is good information. Did you ask about paying via paypal before or after you bid?

bonk2boy said:

Robert - this is good information. Did you ask about paying via paypal before or after you bid?

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I think I asked before but got no reply. Don't think it would be a problem as long as you're willing to pay the fee.

They are all in cahoots

Selltimeshare.ord, Lucky987 and ttttimeshare and Pacific are all in cahoots with each other.

For all you people that got your's closed, count yourself as fortunate.

nazclk said:

Selltimeshare.ord, Lucky987 and ttttimeshare and Pacific are all in cahoots with each other.

For all you people that got your's closed, count yourself as fortunate.

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Did you use them for a transaction, or know someone that did?

I ended up going w/SumDay vacations. Fees are much more straightforward. They don't have a separate closing, but they allowed CC so that helped. I'm hoping everything will go well.

I've bought several weeks from Sumday and never had a problem.

I second Sumday. I have only bought one from them so far and they are now one of my preferred.

Thanks guys. Hoping for a smooth process.

lilpooh108 said:

Did you use them for a transaction, or know someone that did?

I ended up going w/SumDay vacations. Fees are much more straightforward. They don't have a separate closing, but they allowed CC so that helped. I'm hoping everything will go well.

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In reality none of them have a separate closing, but Sumday doesn't lie about it.