Just Venting...want opinion from owners who rent

For those of you on the owner side not the renters side. I would like your opinion.....

I know many of you here on TUG do rent as a business. Bit of background for those who don't know me as well. I don't actively rent as a business, however when I do rent, mostly to friends, family, and clients of my other businesses (consulting, travel), and any other word of mouth referrals they provide. I do have an ad on TUG and an ad on redweek for 1 particular unit/timeframe. I usually pick up 1 high demand holiday week for possible rental purposes.

I have had a few stranger than normal inquiries on these ads, lately.

Most of them pertain to conversations like, "I will take the unit, but only want to pay you less than or at most what you pay for MFs, just to take it off your hands, so it doesn't go to waste."

I am sure this tact works if an owner is desperate to get rid of TS and/or points and get cash back. But I am not in that position (thankfully I might add) where that is a requirement. I plan for and intend to rent, at a profit, the one of two weeks that I pick up for that purpose.

My response was "good luck at you finding someone to do that, but it just won't be me who you will rent the unit from".

I got that feeling they were offended by me saying this. However they did not get the idea that I was offended by what they were asking.

Does this happen to others who also rent units at a profit? This seems to be a new trend.

Just curious

I usually say something like, "I'm sorry, but I can't do it for that price." Sometimes I make a counter offer. I try not to put them off, because sometimes they will try for a lower price, but then they will come back and accept my counter, or take it at full price. I try to keep the door open by keeping things cordial.

Someone a while back posted on TUG that he makes 10 ridiculously low offers, and one person always gives in. It's a numbers game for those who want to travel practically free. He knew he offended people and their various answers did not offend him in return.

OR they could have their own little business, and so they want to rent the week to someone else they know who is already interested. It's a way to make money on a week that isn't theirs. Being the middleman is what brokers do.

Really like this approach..

DeniseM said:

I usually say something like, "I'm sorry, but I can't do it for that price." Sometimes I make a counter offer. I try not to put them off, because sometimes they will try for a lower price, but then they will come back and accept my counter, or take it at full price. I try to keep the door open by keeping things cordial.

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Sandy VDH said:

...Most of them pertain to conversations like, "I will take the unit, but only want to pay you less than or at most what you pay for MFs, just to take it off your hands, so it doesn't go to waste."

...
My response was "the good luck at you finding someone to do that, but it just won't be me who you will rent the unit from".

I got that feeling they were offended by me saying this. However they did not get the idea that I was offended by what they were asking.

...

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No one knows your motive for renting your unit and after reading TUG I'm sure they are saying this hoping you are one just trying to cover MFs.

I personally don't like your answer and prefer Denise's approach.

I'm wondering what makes you think they are offended by your response?

*BTW - If I were renting myself, I'd start off by offering a lower price.

FWIW, I rented a BV unit at WSJ off of eBay recently. It had been listed twice, and I knew what the MF were and offered something just under. They countered, and we settled on an amount that covered their MF with some extra. It was a price I thought ws fair based on the market and what the MF are. I wonder if people are just better informed about the carrying costs of units and are trying to leverage that. Ultimately, if it's a unit in demand that can garner the kind of rent you're looking for, I like Denise's advice - I think the past few years have shown us that everyone is looking for a deal and is prepared to bargain. I would not, however, take it personally or be offended - not worth your time.

OTOH, I could have spent days and weeks lowballing people hoping to get the best rental rate possible, but I was much happier paing a fair price, booking my tickets, and being done with it. I also think that I'll be treated better by a "landlord" I was fair with rather than one I beat up.

on the other hand, ive gotten some WILD offers for rentals from my wish ad....someone even quoted me a price over $3000 dollars for a week...in vegas.

While i highly doubt the highballers are as common as the lowballers...I think most potential renters have a number in mind they are willing to pay ahead of time, and will wait till they find it (or get really close)

rickandcindy23 said:

OR they could have their own little business, and so they want to rent the week to someone else they know who is already interested. It's a way to make money on a week that isn't theirs. Being the middleman is what brokers do.

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I do not let my rentals to be transferred to another persons name beyond the original renters name (and state this as part of rental agreement) - as a SVO owner I can control this easily.

Tuggers are a tough lot! TUG is full of people expecting uptrades, bargains, freebies, etc., so it's certainly not surprising they want to negotiate rental prices.

I agree with Denise in keeping the door open for future negotiation, but I really think it depends on what the original offer is, and how it's presented. Some people are totally unrealistic and offer ridiculously low amounts for very prime weeks, and they ARE rude in their inquiry. The example you gave ("I will take the unit, but only want to pay you less than or at most what you pay for MFs, just to take it off your hands, so it doesn't go to waste") would put me off, too. It comes across as arrogant, and assumes you don't know the market, you're desperate, or both. I'd simply decline their offer and let it go at that. (My opinion is based on Sandy's prior TUG postings - and the belief that she's offering a good quality rental, knows her rental market, and priced the unit accordingly!)

Negotiations

I've got a brother that is a master deal finder. His philosophy is: "If I didn't insult them with my first offer, I came in too high." Probably should not take it personally coming from a stranger trying to nudge you off your profit. Just a part of doing business.

Mike
www.fulltimetimeshare.com

An alleged thought...

Mike&Edie said:

I've got a brother that is a master deal finder. His philosophy is: "If I didn't insult them with my first offer, I came in too high." Probably should not take it personally coming from a stranger trying to nudge you off your profit. Just a part of doing business.

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I rarely rent out any of my owned weeks and even more rarely have I encountered much price discussion / negotiation in those rare instances when I have rented out an occasional week.

That being said (...and maybe this is just my own ego talking), there is no profit to be "nudged off" in renting just to cover the maintenance fee amount, so although I would not take it personally to receive an offer below the maintenance fee amount, neither would I be particularly inclined to grace the insult (whether intended or not) with very much in the way of further negotiation. YMMV.

Someone reported post #11 - I just want to let you know that it's not spam - their Sig link is simply a link to their travel blog - totally OK. A gentle suggestion - before you report a link - check it out.

Keep it Cordial and professional

I don't rent as a business, but I do rent a few of my units every year for many years to offset my maint fees.

For me, it is vacations and its not a business, so I try to find a balance between maximizing profit and just making sure I have a good renter and ultimately smooth transaction.

I am fine with offers, and if they are just out of the question....I simply let them know, similar to Denise, that I am not willing to consider such a low price. I dont even counter when the offer is ridiculous to me and assumes desperation. No offens taken, Iunderstand what they are doing and its their perogative. I simple wish them good luck and tell them feel free to check back with me at a later date if they are still interested.

If I have a renter approach me in a hostile way or one that could be interpereter as offensive, then I will find another. If I dont like their tone or they seem difficult, I ( always respectfully) move on as that to me is a precursor to other potential issues down the road.

For me, its about vacations and I just want both parties to be happy and clear about their expectations and obligations to one another.

Occasionally, they come right back and accept you price, so you just don't know.

PamMo said:

Tuggers are a tough lot! TUG is full of people expecting uptrades, bargains, freebies, etc., so it's certainly not surprising they want to negotiate rental prices.

I agree with Denise in keeping the door open for future negotiation, but I really think it depends on what the original offer is, and how it's presented. Some people are totally unrealistic and offer ridiculously low amounts for very prime weeks, and they ARE rude in their inquiry. The example you gave ("I will take the unit, but only want to pay you less than or at most what you pay for MFs, just to take it off your hands, so it doesn't go to waste") would put me off, too. It comes across as arrogant, and assumes you don't know the market, you're desperate, or both. I'd simply decline their offer and let it go at that. (My opinion is based on Sandy's prior TUG postings - and the belief that she's offering a good quality rental, knows her rental market, and priced the unit accordingly!)

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I agree also. In fact, I would rather gift the rental to friend/family than rent to such a person, who is also much more likely to be a problem renter (complaints, potential chargeback, etc.). I have rented myself from fellow TUGgers and others, with no issues and with both parties walking away feeling happy with the deal. I do not begrudge anyone a profit.

There are others who are not satisfied until they have beaten down the other person to a WIN/LOSE situation. I have a friend who is like this. He will literally spend any entire day at a car dealership in order get the deal that he wants.

Then there are others who try to manipulate you into a situation where you will rent to them out of desperation. I do not rent as a business, but do some prime summer rentals. Last year, I had a prime event weekend that someone agreed to rent. He attempted to string me along with reasons why he had been unable to return the contract (had been out of town, etc.).
I think he wanted to drag things out until a few days before check-in and then force me to accept a low-ball offer. I ultimately rented to someone else and noticed he subsequently posted a rental wanted ad on Craigslist for the same weekend claiming his lodging had been "sold out from under him" and wanting to pay less than half of what I had rented it for (and what he had
previously agreed to pay me). I have wording in my rental agreement that clearly states that failure to promptly return the agreement and make payment does not preclude me from renting to another party.

I also don't like to hear sob stories designed to get my sympathy and give the person a better deal. If I want to donate vacation to a worth cause I will contact VacationsforVeterans.org

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually avoid potential renters who start off by haggling. My philosophy is that if they are problematic now, they will be problematic later. It might take me a while longer to rent the unit out, but I don't rent as a business so maybe just once or twice a year.

I have to add that there is one commercial entity that I find very annoying and pushy, who sometimes contacts me to rent my timeshares. I set up my email acct., so his emails go straight into the trash, and I don't answer or respond to his phone calls. But in this case, it's more of his pushy, overbearing personality, then his low-ball offers that offend me.

Yes - I have told him directly that I don't want to do business with him, but that doesn't seem to deter him...

lilpooh108 said:

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually avoid potential renters who start off by haggling. My philosophy is that if they are problematic now, they will be problematic later. It might take me a while longer to rent the unit out, but I don't rent as a business so maybe just once or twice a year.

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Our daughter rents our weeks, and she feels exactly this way. The hagglers are the ones that complain about everything after the rental is over. They want compensation from her because the view was not what they wanted, for example. The people who just pay the advertised rate are far easier to deal with in the long run.

She has a long list of blacklisted renters, too. :rofl:

rickandcindy23 said:

Our daughter rents our weeks, and she feels exactly this way. The hagglers are the ones that complain about everything after the rental is over. They want compensation from her because the view was not what they wanted, for example. The people who just pay the advertised rate are far easier to deal with in the long run.

She has a long list of blacklisted renters, too. :rofl:

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If done properly, the blacklist should be the other way around. The unhappy renter should blacklist the owner. It is like any business, if you want it, then you pay for it. Since returns are impossible so are refunds. If it didn't meet expectations then don't rent it again. I personally don't understand blacklisting a customer, but I understand the emotional aspect.

As far as the annoyance of haggling goes, it is important to always control the situation. Be realistic about your starting price and then know up front how much you will budge on an offer. Your haggle room may increase as the months move on but always know what the number is. Don't let a haggler talk you into an amount lower than what you knew you would take. My haggle room is very small because my list price is already at or below most of the other listings, but I will also adjust my list price if needed.

Setting list prices too high just opens the door for wasted communication haggling over the price.

What I pay in mf is not important to what I charge for my rentals. Sometimes I make money and sometimes I lose. As long as Im ahead at the end of the year, Im happy

For the holiday weekends and special events that I make reservations for 13 months in advance, I set my price and as we get closer to the event if the rentals have been going well I raise the price. but I think I do a pretty good job of staying under the market. I want to make a deal, so if someone wants to beat me up, I let them...to a point. at that point I say thanks for calling and hang up. I wont rent to them even if they raise their offer. You see I think for these folks they see negotiation as a game with winners and loosers. I dont, for me if its not win/win, its not worth doing

For every other week in the year my advertised price is already less than my mf. If someone tries to knock that down from there I resist. and if they persist, I get nasty

I wont advertise on the tug last minute forum any longer unless Im giving something away. Id rather let the place sit vacant than have to deal with the folks that have answered my past ads there. Life's too short

ronparise said:

I wont advertise on the tug last minute forum any longer unless Im giving something away. Id rather let the place sit vacant than have to deal with the folks that have answered my past ads there. Life's too short

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I regret to say that I've come to the same conclusion.

presley said:

I regret to say that I've come to the same conclusion.

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There is no mystery to the reason for this. Most tuggers are out to maximize every dollar for themselves. They want one sided steals. There really isn't anything wrong with it, but clearly Tug is not the place to make profits on a rental business.

I find it hypocritical that the ones accusing others of doing this constantly do it themselves, whether on this side of the table or the other. If you want to run a business properly then you should always be polite. Losing money based on emotion makes zero business sense.

If your ad says $XXX or best offer, I probably will throw a low ball offer at you if I'm interested, particularly if it's close to check-in and this is a spur of the moment/whim type of rental for me.

On the owner side, I've had a couple who rented from me each year for my mf fee costs plus $100. After a few nice stays they opted to go someplace else. Those who responded to ad's after that wanted to pay less than my cost. In the end I began using the week again find it both easier and more enjoyable to simply use it.

We have a EOY usage week on Maui we're thinking about renting in the years ahead. Not sure how that will turn out as we've always used it thus far.

I have a LMR unit which has NOW had 557 views. NOT one email, call or post about a 2bdr/2bath unit 100 miles west of NYC for a summer family vacation week. It is located within 150 miles to MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ...

It is below my cost and to add a guest, I have to pay $99 for a Guest Certificate --- adding to the deficit.

Yes, deficit --- but I don't print money like other people to cover my deficit.