Governing documents for Trust?

GregT · Jul 17, 2013

All,

Does anyone have the governing documents for the Trust in electronic format? I have the Exchange governing documents, but need Trust-specific documents.

I do have the following documents:

1) MVCD Exchange Procedures (from June 2010)
2) MVCD Exchange Program Disclosure Guide (from June 2010)

The purpose here is to better understand resale purchases of Trust Points.

I know there are risks associated with resales purchases of Trust Points -- to access the Exchange Inventory.

I'm trying to diligence if there are risks associated with resale purchases of Trust Points -- to access the Trust Inventory.

Fundamentally, I can't afford any risk to being able to book days in the Trust exactly 13 months out -- and I can't tell from my documents if a resale purchase jeopardizes that. I wouldn't need my Trust Points to ever access the Exchange Inventory, I have plenty of Legacy Points for that, so I can accept that risk.

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you!

Best,

Greg

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

I might have them on CD. Gotta go digging through the safe first.

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StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

I've got the Public Offering Statement. Does that help?

If so, you can download it from my Dropbox.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/62hqbyq5baanocx/fokkqWUdGx

The documents in this folder are what came on the CD when I purchased. Some of the stuff is dated.

dioxide45 · Jul 17, 2013

Greg,

I think the limitations of resale trust points is written in to the MVCD Exchange Procedures document that you already have. The limitation of trust points would be that the exchange company restricts access of the resale points to MVC Exchange Inventory. So that is why I think the Exchange Procedures is really the best source for the information you are looking for. I am not sure that the Public Offering Statement has anything written in to it specifically indicating the same or additional restrictions. The version that I have is not keyword searchable.

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

Greg I'm looking through the POS document I have and Page 51/277 indicates that in includes the Trust Owners Association Articles of Incorporation and Trust Owners Association By-Laws.

Also check out Page 266/277. There is a section of "Effect of Transfer of Member's Interest". That might be what you're looking for but it's hard to understand with my 3 year old climbing over me.

GregT · Jul 17, 2013

dioxide45 said:
Greg,
The limitation of trust points would be that the exchange company restricts access of the resale points to MVC Exchange Inventory. So that is why I think the Exchange Procedures is really the best source for the information you are looking for. I am not sure that the Public Offering Statement has anything written in to it specifically indicating the same or additional restrictions. The version that I have is not keyword searchable.

I agree there is definitely a concern about access to the Exchange -- but what about access to the Trust itself -- could it be restricted?? I understand that access to the Exchange can be restricted, but the week I need is in the Trust -- and will likely never make it to the Exchange, or I could simply use legacy points. Any and all perspective is appreciated!

Steven and Dioxide, thank you both for your offers/attempts to get me the legal documents. I will check the drop-box from Steven (and hope the 20MB email comes from Dioxide!)

Thank you both!

Best,

Greg

GregT · Jul 17, 2013

Steven and Dioxide,

Thank you -- I was able to get it from Steven's dropbox, and Dioxide, thank you for the PM and attempt to email.

277 pages -- wow, I will look for anything that indicates whether a resale purchase has limited access to the Trust itself.

This is important to determine whether I can buy resale points via Syed, or do I have to buy directly from Marriott ------ if access to the Trust inventory is the only requirement.

Thanks again!

Best,

Greg

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

One thing I'm learning from reading this document is the initiation fee.

Each New Member will be required to remit to the Association an initiation fee; provided, however, an initiation fee shall not be required to be paid by an existing Member.

So it sounds like, if you are already a Trust owner, if you buy resale, you avoid the $200 per interest, $2000 Minimum Initiation fee. That makes buying resale more appealing now on the point side.

benyu2010 · Jul 17, 2013

GregT said:
This is important to determine whether I can buy resale points via Syed, or do I have to buy directly from Marriott ------ if access to the Trust inventory is the only requirement.

Greg, could you please let us know whether you buy retail or resale after the research? Thanks, Ben

benyu2010 · Jul 17, 2013

StevenTing said:
One thing I'm learning from reading this document is the initiation fee.

So it sounds like, if you are already a Trust owner, if you buy resale, you avoid the $200 per interest, $2000 Minimum Initiation fee. That makes buying resale more appealing now on the point side.

Do you avoid that fee even your initial pot of Trust points was resale too? Interesting...

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

benyu2010 said:
Do you avoid that fee even your initial pot of Trust points was resale too? Interesting...

My interpretation says yes as existing Owner means an current Trust Owner. However, that is MY interpretation and means diddly squat to Marriott.

GregT · Jul 17, 2013

Interesting quote here...

Interesting excerpt -- please see the below -- thanks to FT for pointing this out to me (and thanks to Steven and Dioxide for providing the materials!)

Upon the sale of an Interest, Program Manager may require the payment of an initiation fee. Until payment of the initiation fee is received (or waived by Program Manager), the owner of such Interest(s) will not be entitled to reserve any non-Trust Accommodations with the Points associated with such Interest(s) except during the Open Reservation Period; however, payment of the initiation fee will restore the ability to make reservations during the Priority 1 Period, the Priority 2 Period, and the Priority 3 Period. If the purchase of an Interest is not made from a Developer or an Approved Broker, then the owner of such Interest(s) will not be entitled to access all of the Exchange Benefits offered by Program Manager in its sole and absolute discretion, even if the initiation fee is paid.

My interpretation of this is that a Trust Point owner can continue to make reservations within the Trust -- but is blocked from the Exchange Company until they've paid the initiation fee....

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

Yes, but that initiation is waived for people that already own trust points. For me, I am in a good position since I bought trust points. For you since you only have enrolled weeks, you'll pay that $200 per interest, $2000 minimum imitation fee I order to have full access.

So once you pay that imitation fee once its likely you'll never have to pay it again.

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NightSkyTraveler · Jul 17, 2013

StevenTing said:
Yes, but that initiation is waived for people that already own trust points. For me, I am in a good position since I bought trust points. For you since you only have enrolled weeks, you'll pay that $200 per interest, $2000 minimum imitation fee I order to have full access.

So once you pay that imitation fee once its likely you'll never have to pay it again.

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I wish I would have known this or found TUG before I purchased my resale points. :bawl:

StevenTing · Jul 17, 2013

NightSkyTraveler said:
I wish I would have known this or found TUG before I purchased my resale points.

What do you mean? Did you have to pay the initiation fee twice?

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GregT · Jul 18, 2013

benyu2010 said:
Greg, could you please let us know whether you buy retail or resale after the research? Thanks, Ben

Ben,

I think there is a risk when buying resale that you may have restricted access to the Exchange Inventory. For me personally, that's not relevant when making the decision since I am focused on continued access to the Trust.

As the Trust gets more and more robust, we may care less and less about access to the Exchange.

But considering my interest is secure access to the Trust, my read of the documents it that it will not be restricted.

So....at the moment, leaning towards a resale purchase of Trust Points.

Interesting stuff.

The entire purpose here....as TUGgers know....is that the contiguous week (6206/26) to my beloved fixed week (6205/25) now sits in the Trust.

If I can reserve a 3BR, based on my conversation Monday, I believe room assignments will connect the reservations and keep me in the room.

However....I believe that I need Trust Points to ensure I get this rare week.

Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

NightSkyTraveler · Jul 18, 2013

StevenTing said:
What do you mean? Did you have to pay the initiation fee twice?

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I did on the resale...it had been a while since my direct purchase...and I just wanted it to go through...

StevenTing · Jul 18, 2013

Hmmm. I wonder if you can contact customer advocacy and see if you can get some money back based on page 266/277 of the document. It's be worth a shot.

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Fasttr · Jul 18, 2013

Greg....the next question is, if you purchase these points resale, and don't pay the fee, do you still have rights to book Trust inventory in the Priority 1 period (13 month window) or is access to that window only available using the Exchange procedures. I am having a hard time understanding if you can or if you can't as a section of one document seems to contradict a section of another document on that topic. I can't really see what booking rights you have as Trust only, as the booking rights seem to be intertwined with the Exchange program.

StevenTing · Jul 18, 2013

If you don't pay the fee your booking window is limited. One source says 60 days. I haven't had a chance to interpret the document but it reads very similar.

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Fasttr · Jul 18, 2013

StevenTing said:
Yes, but that initiation is waived for people that already own trust points. For me, I am in a good position since I bought trust points. For you since you only have enrolled weeks, you'll pay that $200 per interest, $2000 minimum imitation fee I order to have full access.

So once you pay that imitation fee once its likely you'll never have to pay it again.

Steven....not sure that is accurate as an existing "Member" can be an "Exchange Member" or a "Trust member", so that section seems to say that either existing Member may not have to pay.

GregT · Jul 18, 2013

Fasttr said:
Greg....the next question is, if you purchase these points resale, and don't pay the fee, do you still have rights to book Trust inventory in the Priority 1 period (13 month window) or is access to that window only available using the Exchange procedures. I am having a hard time understanding if you can or if you can't as a section of one document seems to contradict a section of another document on that topic. I can't really see what booking rights you have as Trust only, as the booking rights seem to be intertwined with the Exchange program.

Understood, and an interesting question -- I plan to pay the fee to mitigate this issue (if I buy resale), but fundamentally, I would be an owner of the Trust with the right to make reservations within the Trust.

It is true that I may not have rights to book within the Exchange Company, but my interpretation is that I would be able to book Trust intervals, which is what I care most about (and frankly we all should, as the Trust becomes more robust). The Trust documents do lay out the Premier Plus rights within the governing documents too, so the access rights to the Trust Inventory do mirror the access rights within the Exchange Company.

The documents are very complicated, but I feel much better about the risk having seen them. Thanks again to TUGgers for providing the information and a second set of eyes.

Best,

Greg

benyu2010 · Jul 18, 2013

Greg,

Access to trust inventory is my main object and where you may ultilize value of points. The language is pretty clear that initiation is the only obstacle to re-gain full access to booking window of P1, P2 and P3 upon sale of interest.

From a marketing standpoint, it does not make any sense to sell a hot potato that contains little value for next taker. $2,400 is likely about net profit of small package for developer sale and resale apparently does not hurt developer's bottomline.

I will probably find a small package of resale, too.

Thanks,

Best,

Ben

puckmanfl · Jul 18, 2013

good morning....

Greg...

this all seems a bit risky as a mechanism to ensure week 26 6206. What happens if your buddy with 15K trust points want to go to Hawaii during week 26. What happens if they load this week into Exchange Company at 13 months, just as they did for our KL weeks? Then anyone with PP can get it. Of course the odds are low as this is a 11.8K point requirement....

GregT · Jul 18, 2013

puckmanfl said:
good morning....

Greg...

this all seems a bit risky as a mechanism to ensure week 26 6206. What happens if your buddy with 15K trust points want to go to Hawaii during week 26. What happens if they load this week into Exchange Company at 13 months, just as they did for our KL weeks? Then anyone with PP can get it. Of course the odds are low as this is a 11.8K point requirement....

Puck, yes it is indeed risky -- but I think the chances are good. I may indeed lose to the 15K Trust Point owner, but I think we TUGgers understand timelines and inventory loading better than most.

We will see...Will keep you apprised.

Best.

Greg

Governing documents for Trust?

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