Northwest - Fee for Pre-reserved Seats

[DougH]

As I predicted months ago....$15 fee for certain 'choice' seats. Only constitutes about 5% of each planes seats currently. But that percentage will only go up.

[KauaiMark]

Charge "upgrade" fees for everything.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...LINES-FEES.xml

[Kay H]

Good thing I love looking out the window. Am now going to have to compete with DH for window seat

[KauaiMark]

Originally Posted by Kay H

Good thing I love looking out the window. Am now going to have to compete with DH for window seat

...BoingBoing speculates that the window "view" seat might be the target of the next upgrade fee.

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/03/14...rges_for_.html

[JLB]

We flew Allegiant air in January. They charge $10 for assigned seats. We didn't do that.

Being unfamiliar with the plane layout we got stuck going with seats at the rear with no windows, with the engine right outside. Boring and noisy. The equalizer for that was when we got to Orlando and they dropped the rear stairwell and we were first off the plane.

[Carolinian]

Originally Posted by JLB

We flew Allegiant air in January. They charge $10 for assigned seats. We didn't do that.

Being unfamiliar with the plane layout we got stuck going with seats at the rear with no windows, with the engine right outside. Boring and noisy. The equalizer for that was when we got to Orlando and they dropped the rear stairwell and we were first off the plane.

Air Berlin, a European LCC, does the same thing. A good option compared to the cattle car boarding of most LCC's.

[Carolinian]

Just reading about this issue on FlyerTalk. It is really irritating a lot of elites, as this fee is also applied to elites. This is a dumb move by stupid management. Irritating an airlines most loyal flyers for a silly nickle-and-dime fee just does not pay off. Delta finally figured that out with their Medallion changes a few years ago when a lot of their elites bailed out to other airlines. I was one of them, moving to NW. They finally rescinded those changes and fired the management moron responsible, but they still lost a lot of their prime customers.

Of course, when I look at my upgrade success on NW, I am not as upset as some of the FT boards. Since comping my elite status over to NW, I have received free upgrades to first class on every domestic segment I have flown on NW except a couple in tundrajets that did not have a first class section. My consistent upgrades with NW certainly beat the hit-and-miss record of upgrades I had in my years as a Delta gold medallion. When I am sitting in a first class seat on an upgrade, I really don't care what they are charging for exit rows back in the steerage section!

[DougH]

Eventually, they will charge for all types of pre-reserved seats. Whether they be exit, aisle, window or center seats.

The 'quality' of the seat will determine the price. Most desireable Window/Aisle/Exit = $15, Less desireable Window/Aisle/Exit = $10, Undesireable seats = $5.

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Originally Posted by Carolinian

Just reading about this issue on FlyerTalk. It is really irritating a lot of elites, as this fee is also applied to elites. This is a dumb move by stupid management. Irritating an airlines most loyal flyers for a silly nickle-and-dime fee just does not pay off. Delta finally figured that out with their Medallion changes a few years ago when a lot of their elites bailed out to other airlines. I was one of them, moving to NW. They finally rescinded those changes and fired the management moron responsible, but they still lost a lot of their prime customers.!

I agree that the airlines would be really stupid to not allow their elites free seat selection.

They want to keep those people flying on their airline. The elites will often select their preferred airline over another even if the fare is higher just to accure miles on their preferred carrier.

[mrsstats]

I would happily pay $10. extra to have a reserved seat on a Southwest flight.

[EZ-ED]

I had heard the rumor about this but thought what airline would be stupid enough to implement it. Now I know.

My comment to NWA via their website was as follows:
-------------
I see that you will be charging extra for aisle seats. Since I probably
would opt not to pay for such an experience and will wind up in a center
seat I plan on making it my job to make life miserable for the aisle
seat passenger. Many trips to the bathroom, getting stuff out of the
overhead bin, putting stuff back in the overhead bin, more trips to the
batheroom, exit to talk to my wife who will probably be in another
center seat someplace else on the plane. Fortunate for you I have no need to travel on NWA ever again. I don't recall my worldperk number but if you can find it you can cancel it.
--------------
and the response:
--------------
Thank you for contacting nwa.com Customer Service.

Ed, we appreciate your perspective on our new Coach Choice program.

Coach Choice is currently a test product. Designed particularly with
late-booking business travelers in mind, it is intended to provide added
choice and comfort by saving some preferred seating assignments until
check-in.

Please understand that 95% of the seats on Northwest-operated flights,
including exit rows and premium seats on each flight, remain free of
charge.

Be assured your feedback regarding Coach Choice will be forwarded for
internal review. These unsolicited remarks form the basis for many
improvements in our service.

More information about the Coach Choice program is available at http://www.nwa.com/features/coachchoice/

Again, we sincerely value your opinion and I hope this explains the
Coach Choice procedure.

Thank you again for using nwa.com Customer Service. We appreciate the
opportunity to serve you, our customer.

Sincerely,
---------------

I use to fly NW almost exclusive but no more until this silly stuff stops.

[Luanne]

Originally Posted by mrsstats

I would happily pay $10. extra to have a reserved seat on a Southwest flight.

Hmmm, to me it was worth it not to have assigned seats for a lower airfare. Maybe I'm just used to the cattle call seating.

[Kauai Kid]

Gosh I wonder why they were bankrupt? You are lucky you don't have to pay extra just for any seat.

Is it true they are installing pay toilets where you need a quarter? I understand the CEO's pay is only 280 times that of the average NWA pilot and he wants 300 times.

Sterling

[JeffW]

In defense of the airllines, I think they are just struggling to survive, and doing what they can. Anyone who thinks back to airfare prices 5-10 years ago and extrapolates that to what should be charged today has to realize that they are WAY underpriced. As pointed out elsewhere, if everything airlines offered years ago (hot meals, free alcohol on int't flights, no charges for phone reservations, access to any seats) were still provided, prices would be much higher.

Jeff

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Kauai Kid

I understand the CEO's pay is only 280 times that of the average NWA pilot and he wants 300 times.

I don't think that's accurate.

NWA pilots pay a few years ago averaged about $120K. With recent pay cuts, let's assume it's now a nice round $100K. They also get significant stock options as part of their contract agreement. Value of the stock options, because NWA is in bankruptcy? Zero.

Steenland's base pay is about $472,000. Other cash compensation is about $71,000, for a total of $543,000. He also gets mega stock options. Current value of those options? Same as for the pilots: zero. There are some other perks that Steenland gets that could raise his calculated pay to as high as $1,500,000, still quite low for a company of that size, bankruptcy or not.

That calculates to about 15 times the pay rate for a pilot, not 280 times. My guess is that the 280 included the once-upon-a-time valuable stock options for Steenland. However, even then I think the highest multiple you could get to would be around 44, still a long way from 280.

[Carolinian]

OTOH, NW is the only US-based carrier to still offer free alcohol in coach on trans-Atlantic flights (although most if not all European carriers do). I have a trip across the pond on DL metal next week, and am not looking forward to the $5 beers after being acustomed to free Heinikens on NW.

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Originally Posted by mrsstats

I would happily pay $10. extra to have a reserved seat on a Southwest flight.

You do have a choice to have a reserved seat.

You can fly Southwest and pay less, givng up the privilege of a reserved seat. You can fly another airiline and pay more, and get a reserved seat. Your choice.

[DougH]

Just to let you know, so far, this 'test' by NW has been incredibly successful. The vast majority of people who are being prompted to purchase the new 'fee' seats at nwa.com or kiosk check-in are choosing to do so.

The amount of seats being designated as 'fee' or 'coach choice' seats will soon expand, and will continue to expand.

[Carolinian]

And NW is trying to reassure their elites, from whom I suspect they have gotten a lot of static. I got an email from them assuring elites that we will still have enough preferred seats free.

The big money for airlines is their business fares, which includes most of the elites. Irritating them to earn nickle and dime money is very silly as Delta found out a couple of years ago with its Medalliion changes. Many of their more loyal customers left for other airlines and haven't come back.

My favorite example of the stupidity of nickle and diming is the closest example of air rage I have seen while flying. I had booked a trip to Munich on Delta just after they started charging for alcohol in coach on trans-Atlantic flights. On the return, the guy sitting beside me was a German businessman.
When they came around with drinks and asked what I wanted, I said normally a beer, but since you are now charging for them, let me have a coke. The German then indignantly asked the FA if this was true that they charged for beer and she said yes, five dollars. My German neighbor then angily informed her that he had paid (I forget the exact amount but it was well over $1,000 but less than $2,000) for his ticket and he expected a free beer. When she tried to calm him down, he went on to sputter that Lufthansa would never do such a stupid thing as charge for beer, made several angry references to what a lousy airline Delta was, and said he never intended to fly them again under any circumstances. Here was a high dollar business passenger, the kind that makes or breaks a profit for airlines, that Delta ran away over a silly five dollar charge for a beer. No wonder US-based airlines are mostly losing money!

I myself avoid flying US carriers except NW on trans-Atlantic flights. They simply don't understand the amentities passengers expect. Cutting amenities is penny wise but pound foolish. European carriers give better service and many of them are earning profits while carriers of this side of the pond flirt with bankruptcy.

[camachinist]

UA has been offering non-elites access to E+ at check-in for a modest fee for some time now. As a GM, I bit many times in the past, as much for the chance to get seating 1 and find overhead space and get off the plane quicker, as the few extra inches of leg room which are touted as the main perk. As NW doesn't have a "premium" economy section, they figure exit rows come close and they don't need to spend money to create something to attempt to charge more for.

After some time as a 1P, with the ability to book exit rows online at booking, and having sat in a few, I'm back to regular E+ seats. I find the exit rows, with their lack of floor storage and immovable armrests and proximity to a generally cold exit door to be a poor choice for me. Then there's the customary congestion at the galley/loo, where those seats often exist.

I think NW will try this, and it will quietly disappear.

Pat

[Ann-Marie]

What I find really unfair about the extra charge for seats is when a family fly, and they want to sit together. Because I for instance would need three seats for my family, one if not two of us would have to pay a higher fee just so we can be together. What I think would be great is for all of us to sit in middle seats. My DH in one row, my 2 year old in another, and myself in yet another. How fast do you think someone would try to change seats with me or my DH to get away form the 2 year old (or any young annoying child)?

[camachinist]

A bit off-topic, but most children I've happened to be seated next to have been pretty well-behaved; it's usually the ones seated behind who end up kicking my seat for 6 hours.

Also, even with a noisy child, it's amazing what a set of QC2's can do. It's like being in another world. As a rule, I never switch a carefully selected seat unless required to by a F/A (pax are required to follow their instructions). I expect those families who cannot plan correctly and/or who cannot live for a few hours without being together to make the adjustments. My wife and I often sit apart on transcons. We survive

Annecdotally, I just flew UA 870 SYD-SFO earlier this week, where there were indeed a number of families seated in E+ middles (center section). Fortunately, my 1P status kept my row blocked, with only one other elite on the other aisle (D/G) on the 744. The F/A's did cast a glance my way as they moved families around to get them together, but no one approached me to give up my aisle seat

Lastly, as I believe this issue pertains only to exit row seating on NW currently, it would be a non-issue for families with children under 15, as such children cannot sit in exit rows AFAIK. On my connector home from SFO on the above flight, the F/A even moved a non-English speaking pax out of exit row, as they couldn't effectively communicate with the pax.

Pat