Need help from the fare search experts

3kids4me · Mar 19, 2006

Hi all,

I've been looking without success for a reasonably priced flight from the New York (LGA, JFK or HPN) or Hartford areas to the L.A. (or Orange County, Ontario, Long Beach) area, leaving on December 23rd and returning on December 30th. I would prefer a non-stop flight, or at least a flight that isn't flying completely out of the way for its stop so that the total travel hours are not horrible. I also do not want a flight that is a red eye or arrives in the middle of the night.

I don't know all of the tricks for searching various systems, so if anyone can help I would really appreciate it!

Thanks so much!

Sharon

MULTIZ321 · Mar 19, 2006

Flight Searches

Sharon,

If you haven't already, consider www.kayak.com

and also www.farecompare.com

Richard

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

Try SWF...

I'll check some things and get back to you..

Pat

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

Code:

$242.70 in US Dollars
1 adult @ $242.70
Show booking details

This ticket is non-refundable.

Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.

Airport legend:
BDL: 	Hartford/Springfield Bradley Int'l
DFW: 	Dallas/Fort Worth Int'l
ONT: 	Ontario, California Int'l
	
Hartford, CT to Ontario, CA: 2653 miles 	8 hrs 33 min
American Airlines 	American Airlines Flight AA847 on a MD-80 (jet) in coach class
     (food for purchase) 	
Departs Hartford, CT (BDL) 	Sat, Dec 23 	1:38p 	 4 hrs 7 min
Arrives Dallas/Fort Worth, TX (DFW) 		4:45p 	
	Layover in Dallas/Fort Worth 	1 hr 14 min
American Airlines 	American Airlines Flight AA1481 on a MD-80 (jet) in coach class
     (food for purchase) 	
Departs Dallas/Fort Worth, TX (DFW) 	Sat, Dec 23 	5:59p 	 3 hrs 12 min
Arrives Ontario, CA (ONT) 		7:11p 	
 
Ontario, CA to Hartford, CT: 2653 miles 	8 hrs 19 min
American Airlines 	American Airlines Flight AA2248 on a MD-80 (jet) in coach class
     (food for purchase) 	
Departs Ontario, CA (ONT) 	Sat, Dec 30 	10:39a 	 2 hrs 55 min
Arrives Dallas/Fort Worth, TX (DFW) 		3:34p 	
	Layover in Dallas/Fort Worth 	2 hrs 4 min
American Airlines 	American Airlines Flight AA1922 on a MD-80 (jet) in coach class
     (food for purchase) 	
Departs Dallas/Fort Worth, TX (DFW) 	Sat, Dec 30 	5:38p 	 3 hrs 20 min
Arrives Hartford, CT (BDL) 		9:58p

Code:

Fare Details
 
Departing Airport 	BDL
Arriving Airport 	ONT
Departure Date 	12/20/06
 
Note:
The fares listed do not include airport and/or security fees.
 
Fare Basis 	Airline 	Booking Class 	Trip Type 	Fare 	Effective Date 	Expiration Date 	 
112 Fares Returned
T21M1BVN 	CO 	T 	Round-Trip 	212.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
TE211NNX 	UA 	T 	Round-Trip 	212.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
N21E1MZN 	AA 	N 	Round-Trip 	212.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
M7OWNR 	WN 	M 	One-Way 	150.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
T7NBV 	DL 	T 	One-Way 	150.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
SA14AN 	UA 	S 	One-Way 	150.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
NR7DNR 	AA 	N 	Round-Trip 	300.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
TR7V8N 	NW 	T 	Round-Trip 	300.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing

Note multiplicity of options in this fare range...

Sold... Book 'em Dano...

Pat

3kids4me · Mar 19, 2006

Thanks guys.

Pat, the flight combination you found is one that I actually have on hold right now (through AA) because that's the cheapest I could find...but the flight time is very long since we have to fly down to Dallas first. It does sound like that may be the best I can do (unless I am reading your chart wrong...they do all stop in Dallas, right?) ...but I'm wondering if I should be waiting for the Southwest and Jet Blue (both have non-stop) fares to come out, or if that would be a bad idea. I know that I haven't had luck with good fares from Jet Blue (during holiday weeks) in the past, and by the time those fares do come out, the lower fares on other airlines will likely be gone.

What do you think?

Thanks again,

Sharon

shell_man89 · Mar 19, 2006

Sharon,
You should try ITA's site. http://www.itasoftware.com/ They make the software for many flight search engine. You can't book flights but it gives a very good first look at what it will cost. You can then go to any on-line site to book the fare.

Sample (2 people)
$326 Midwest Airlines LGA to LAX Sat, Dec 23 6:40a-11:04a 7h 24m Stops at MKE
LAX to LGA Sat, Dec 30 7:25a-5:55p 7h 30m Stops at MCI

$352 American EWR to LAX Sat, Dec 23 8:40a-11:49a 6h 9m nonstop
LAX to JFK Sat, Dec 30 2:15p-10:28p 5h 13m nonstop

Fares look pretty good for this time of the year.
John

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

Try another carrier... UA will likely route through ORD or DEN, and CO through EWR or IAH. Watch your fare buckets. That's why I posted the fares.

Personally, I don't think the AA routing is that bad. Also, in December, I'd rather route through DFW than ORD any day of the week. It's winter, ya know

Pat

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

If you want, I can likely get you a W fare on p.s. (Premium Service) non-stop JFK-LAX for 338+. We might be able to throw in an end connector somewhere and get it down to a S or T fare, but doubtful that time of year. Excellent service and flight. I'm in C on the red-eye tomorrow night LAX-JFK on a mileage run. I'll wave

Pat

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

One last thought. Generally, non-stop trancons bring a premium price, due to business travelers. This may not be true during the holidays, but vacationers transplant business folks then, so generally keep price pressure up.

Also, as a point of comparison, a non-stop is about 5.5 hrs eastbound and 6.25hrs westbound, depending on winds. Compare that to your existing times with the connector.

Personally, I prefer red-eyes for the non-stops, so I can sleep. Otherwise, it's just sitting there feeling my butt start to hurt

Pat

debraxh · Mar 19, 2006

I agree with Pat that Dallas is a much better stopover in the winter. Plus, it's not that much further south than LA anyway. That's the route I would choose unless I went for the non-stop. I flew via Denver once in mid-November and we were delayed for hours for de-icing. What a nightmare

3kids4me · Mar 19, 2006

Thanks you all for the excellent points.

Pat, I didn't really understand what this means:

camachinist said:
If you want, I can likely get you a W fare on p.s. (Premium Service) non-stop JFK-LAX for 338+. We might be able to throw in an end connector somewhere and get it down to a S or T fare, but doubtful that time of year. Excellent service and flight.

Pat

I am such a flight scheduling novice...I have no idea what a W fare is, or what premium service is (is that like business class or something?) or even what S or T fares are. I know that a "Y" fare is full price!

I have some frequent flyer miles on AA, and I can't even figure out if, given my current reservation, I could use them to upgrade...which would make the flight time more tolerable. I am travelling with my family and this is why I'm concerned about the flight times and not doing a red eye...if it were just me it wouldn't be a big issue. Also, since every fare is multiplied by five...it adds up!!

Thanks again!

Sharon

camachinist · Mar 19, 2006

Premium Service is a UA product, which is largely unknown to those on the dAArkside

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,50964,00.html

W (generically) is a fare bucket... WE211NNX is a fare basis and is booked into the W booking class. See code below. W is an economy class fare on UA.

Code:

Fare Details
 
Departing Airport 	NYC
Arriving Airport 	LAX
Departure Date 	12/20/06
 
Note:
The fares listed do not include airport and/or security fees.
 
Fare Basis 	Airline 	Booking Class 	Trip Type 	Fare 	Effective Date 	Expiration Date 	 
25 Fares Returned
WE211NNX 	UA 	W 	Round-Trip 	338.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
VE14N2NX 	UA 	V 	Round-Trip 	398.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing
VRA14NXL 	UA 	V 	Round-Trip 	398.00 (USD) 			View Rules    View Routing

You can upgrade your revenue tickets with miles, barring a few fare classes. It should say on your itinerary page on AA whether the tickets are upgradeable. If you are elite, you can buy/earn 500 milers to upgrade as well.

https://www.aa.com/apps/AAdvantage/...iptor=AAdvantagePartnersContent#upgradeAwards

Personally, I'd take every desired local and destination and work the options.

For NYC, you can use JFK, LGA, EWR, HPN, SWF, and BDL reasonably

For LA, you can use LAX, ONT, SNA, BUR, and LGB reasonably

Hope that helps...

Pat

JillChang · Mar 20, 2006

camachinist said:
If you want, I can likely get you a W fare on p.s. (Premium Service) non-stop JFK-LAX for 338+. We might be able to throw in an end connector somewhere and get it down to a S or T fare, but doubtful that time of year. Excellent service and flight. I'm in C on the red-eye tomorrow night LAX-JFK on a mileage run. I'll wave

Pat

Pat, I see you mention here and on FT link that you send me, but, what is a "mileage run"?

Pat H · Mar 20, 2006

JillChang said:
Pat, I see you mention here and on FT link that you send me, but, what is a "mileage run"?

A "mileage run" in the strictest sense of the phrase means that one flies for no other reason than to accumulate miles. A mileage run will often involve an immediate turnaround. Mileage runners will also book out of the way connections to maximize the mileage. For example, I flew Philadelphia-Dallas-London-Raleigh Durham-Philadelphia. I would have flown thru Dallas on the return also but it was more expensive. I had 2 hours at the airport in London before my return flight. One of the other benefits of mileage running is to reach elite status.

There are many UA flyers who are flying their butts off during March since they will be getting triple miles on every UA flight. I'm sure that Pat and Dave M will chime in here. They might even admit to how many miles they are flying this month.

Dave M · Mar 20, 2006

Pat H said:
There are many UA flyers who are flying their butts off during March since they will be getting triple miles on every UA flight. I'm sure that Pat and Dave M will chime in here. They might even admit to how many miles they are flying this month.

Triple FF miles on UA in March is actually quadruple miles for many, because elite bonus miles are not included in the "triple" definition. Thus, for the 27,712 actual miles I am flying on UA this month, I'll earn 110,848 FF miles, plus more for online booking bonuses and ticket purchase charges to my UA credit card.

The value of those FF miles is more than what I paid for the tickets!

Mileage running is a disease. It's in the same family of diseases as the ones that make us buy more timeshares than we need and spend too much time on TUG.

camachinist · Mar 20, 2006

I knew the resident FF'ers would find this thread

I'm off on two back to back transcon MR's today. By the end of March, I'll have 62K BIS and ~260K RDM's in the bank.

Dave's right, it's a disease ...

Timeshare equivilent might be the old buying of cheap SA timeshares to work trades into high end domestic properties. Not exactly, but a similar strategy.

Pat

urban5 · Mar 20, 2006

Link to fare program

Pat what is the link to the program that you used to bring up the flight information you posted?

Thanks

camachinist · Mar 20, 2006

urban5 said:
Pat what is the link to the program that you used to bring up the flight information you posted?

Thanks

http://www.expertflyer.com/

Subscription service, about 100.00/yr

Pat

3kids4me · Mar 20, 2006

I'm still trying to find that United flight that is direct and $338! The cheapest I have found is $357...

EWR is a real hike for us...Harford is actually closer, I think, and no bridge to cross.

It looks like changing planes adds about 3 hours to our trip...with the total flying time being too uncomfortable for my family (especially my daughter, who fatigues easily). If I can find that direct flight for the $338, it may be worth it even though it's nearly $500 more for my family.

We have no status on any airline, unfortunately, and the American routing I have on hold is apparently not a fare class that can be upgraded with miles (at least for a "regular" person like me).

Of course, maybe this all means that the trip is not a good idea!!

Any advice? Do you think Jet Blue will be in the same price range, or much more expensive? Is it worth waiting or will the other fares all be huge by then?

Thanks,

Sharon

Dave M · Mar 20, 2006

Sharon -

Although the fare exists (easiest to get it is on American), the dates you want to travel - and several days around your dates - are blacked out for the fare. Or, depending on the airline, there are simply no flights with the fare available.

$357 is very reasonable for a holiday fare. Unless you want to risk waiting for JetBlue, I would grab that fare or take the one you have on hold.

3kids4me · Mar 20, 2006

Thanks Dave!

Sharon

camachinist · Mar 20, 2006

Sharon... Listen to Dave

Seriously, the fare I quoted you was the base fare, which didn't include taxes and fees. You found the right fare.

I'm off on some MR's for the next couple days, so I'll be in and out. Have fun!

Pat

shell_man89 · Mar 20, 2006

Whats a good MR?

Pat

When you get a chance. What do you consider a good MR and whats the price you would pay?

John

JillChang · Mar 20, 2006

Dave M said:
Triple FF miles on UA in March is actually quadruple miles for many, because elite bonus miles are not included in the "triple" definition. Thus, for the 27,712 actual miles I am flying on UA this month, I'll earn 110,848 FF miles, plus more for online booking bonuses and ticket purchase charges to my UA credit card.

The value of those FF miles is more than what I paid for the tickets!

Mileage running is a disease. It's in the same family of diseases as the ones that make us buy more timeshares than we need and spend too much time on TUG.

Oh my god! please don't tell me this, you are passing on the disease to me. Damn! I am not working full-time, only as an occasional buyer since I sold my business last year, so I got loads of time on my hand. After I found TUG, I am buying more timeshares than I need, but I am talking myself into buying more!

And Now THIS!!!!

I am thinking I need the flying to go with my timeshare, how else can I use them up!

Ok, seriously. I am doing quite a bit of flying already the last few month. Short ones to trade shows around U.S. Long one to China for buying at least twice a year. And to top it off, I am thinking at least two vacations a year, Summer and Xmas with my kids and parents........AND the Master plan of them all, an around the world trip with my family in Summer 2007, covering every continent except Africa!!!! So......MR to get air miles is beginning to sound convincing!!!!

Ok, FF's. My main airline out of Toronto is Air Canada, Star Alliance. But I also have a great CC that convert points to BA at 50% bonus. Any suggestions on how I can accumulate more miles? Will this UA triple miles special work for Aeroplan (AC)? How do you find those great MR deals? and how can I find descent J or C fares?

Jill

camachinist · Mar 20, 2006

shell_man89 said:
Pat

When you get a chance. What do you consider a good MR and whats the price you would pay?

John

As you reside in Dave's territory, I'm sure he has some excellent ideas on the subject. Much depends on which carrier you wish to focus on. Off the top of my head, on UA, I'd look at BOS-ORD-NRT-BKK and return, which I believe Dave has done. That's about 20K BIS r/t. You can get there creatively and milk it a bit, AFAIK. Dave knows right coast pricing better than I, but I recall seeing some fares out of ORD for ~600.00, although prices now, ex-BOS, are running 800-900+ currently. IMO, long-haul is the best bang for the buck, if you can catch a spot sale with no minimum stay, as I just did to MEL, and will to DUB this weekend.

Domestically, tour the hubs of your favorite airline. As an example, for UA, BOS-IAD-ORD-LAX-SEA-NYC-BOS....

Keep an eye on the mileage runner forum on FlyerTalk. Contribute. Learn. There's a whole subculture that never sees the public board, for mileage runs and hotel deals.

Hope that helps!

Pat