Why is Wkorv ocean front so much more than the north oceanfront

trexmdr · Dec 12, 2015

Dear forum members,
Based on the recent Nanea thread about ocean fronts I was wondering why the WKORV ocean fronts are so much more than the north oceanfronts?
I was looking at the marketplace and I see that WKORV is about 45k and the north ones are around 30k yet the ocean views are similar. Or maybe they are not?
In fact it was a delux I saw and those are sometimes cheaper due to higher maintenance fees so a center can be as much as 50k or more as I have seen on the timeshares hawaii listings.
I have two ocean view south lock-offs and have always thought about either selling both for an ocean front or just the one I bought on the secondary market and upgrade to the ocean front except I could only get about 40k less commissions for the pair and still have to kick in an extra 10k for half the time but it would be an ocean view.
All comments are welcomed and appreciated. I have learned so very, very much here.
RT

Ken555 · Dec 12, 2015

South OF have a direct view of the ocean without obstruction. North OF can be building 5 or 8, can look over the restaurant and more, and do not all have direct view of the ocean. Most definitely not the same product regardless of name. Lots of threads about this issue on TUG from when the North property opened.

Sent from my iPad

trexmdr · Dec 12, 2015

Timeshare Hawaii has WKORV listed at 55k for ocean front

trexmdr · Dec 12, 2015

That is good to know about the north. I'll read up on the old threads.
But is oceanfront really worth 2 1/2 times more than ocean view?
I guess it is because the market place says it is.
I was upgraded to the ocean front once and I must say it is breathtaking.
But with two kids it may not be worth it yet.
RT

DavidnRobin · Dec 12, 2015

trexmdr said:
That is good to know about the north. I'll read up on the old threads.
But is oceanfront really worth 2 1/2 times more than ocean view?
I guess it is because the market place says it is.
I was upgraded to the ocean front once and I must say it is breathtaking.
But with two kids it may not be worth it yet.
RT

My biased opinion...
It isn't really about the 2.5x more - it is more about the view (important enough to pay the premium) - even between the OF types. The resale prices for OFD and OFC WKORV have held over the years - as per ROFR. That speaks volumes as to the value. Especially compared to OF prices at Nanea.

There have been various threads on many aspects of OF villas - for all 3 resorts now. Lots to consider.

vacationhopeful · Dec 13, 2015

Even in other areas of the country ... like South Florida ... it is also true.

I know I really enjoy a HIGH direct oceanfront view (I own 2 such 18th floor TS unit such view) while a 8th floor view is good ... the WOW factor MORE.

Is it the expanse of water, water everywhere; the ocean rolling into the sky along the horizon; the width of HOW much ocean & beach you see; the small size of beach & people with the vastness of the water?

Now I also have been in a 10th floor unit in the Ocean Palms building at Wyndham Sea Gardens ... very nice view from their direct ocean units .. located a block from the beach (the expanse of sky with ocean). And I have stayed in the Wyndham Royal Vista directly on the sand Oceanfront unit ... 3rd floor with hearing (and seeing) the waves hit the beach 24 hours per day...big WOW factor for my whole party for all 3 days we roosted on that balcony and patio door open at night.

LisaRex · Dec 13, 2015

trexmdr said:
I was looking at the marketplace and I see that WKORV is about 45k and the north ones are around 30k yet the ocean views are similar. Or maybe they are not?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Look at the unit map for WKORV-N. Starwood sold the entire building 8 and villas 01/02 through 14/15 in building 5 as OF. I don't know about you, but if I stayed in a hotel room that was labeled as ocean FRONT and got assigned villa 5214/15 (Building 5, 2nd floor, villa 14/15), I'd be ticked.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=472617&postcount=19

Compare that to the OF units at WKORV (south). Units 27/29, 30/31, and 26/28 are the ONLY 6 villas on each floor that coded OF... so only 72 OF villas in any given week. Plus, their lanais are wider and deeper than the north side. When I have a sec, I'll download my photos from both the 5th floor and 2nd floor OFD villas and 5th floor OF from the north side to try and give you an idea of views.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371

That's why south is going to go for more than north.

Caveat: On the south side, units 27/29 and 26/28 are OF Deluxe villas. While the 1 bdrm side (28 and 29) directly faces the ocean, the studio part faces the other buildings. That's why OFC is the most desired villa in the place. Not only are the MFs lower, but both sides actually face the ocean.

So...when looking to buy, I'd think in my mind that you're actually buying OF on the south side and premium OVs on the north side. Is OF worth 50% more than a premium OV? Only you can answer that.

trexmdr · Dec 13, 2015

Regarding the wow factor I must admit when I stayed at the wkorv center ocean front one April and we watched the whales from our balcony it was priceless.

maph · Dec 13, 2015

Here's another map that has the views color-coded.

https://www.starwoodvacationnetwork.com/villa-collection/the-westin-kaanapali-ocean-resort-villas-north/map

Oops - you have to click on the 'Resort Map' tab.

vacationtime1 · Dec 13, 2015

trexmdr;1835159} I was looking at the marketplace and I see that WKORV is about 45k and the north ones are around 30k yet the ocean views are similar. Or maybe they are not?[/QUOTE said:
You have to sit on the lanai of an OFC unit to understand. DW and I just spent two weeks doing just that (one week in the studio; the second week in the one bedroom).

The lanais of the OFC units look due west. The only things you can see from them are palm trees, beach, ocean, Lanai, and Molokai. You cannot see the units on either side of you, even if you lean over the edge of the rail. No one can see you. You have your own completely private piece of the beach, although you have all of the resort facilities available whenever you want them.

Many of the OF units at North are excellent, although none have the focused beach view that all of the WKORV-OFC units have. Also, a few of the WKORVN-OF views are terrible (the ground floor units behind the restaurant in building 5 should be coded island view).

Is it worth the extra money? Reasonable minds may differ.

Helios · Dec 13, 2015

LisaRex said:
A picture is worth a thousand words. Look at the unit map for WKORV-N. Starwood sold the entire building 8 and villas 01/02 through 14/15 in building 5 as OF. I don't know about you, but if I stayed in a hotel room that was labeled as ocean FRONT and got assigned villa 5214/15 (Building 5, 2nd floor, villa 14/15), I'd be ticked.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=472617&postcount=19

Compare that to the OF units at WKORV (south). Units 27/29, 30/31, and 26/28 are the ONLY 6 villas on each floor that coded OF... so only 72 OF villas in any given week. Plus, their lanais are wider and deeper than the north side. When I have a sec, I'll download my photos from both the 5th floor and 2nd floor OFD villas and 5th floor OF from the north side to try and give you an idea of views.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77371

That's why south is going to go for more than north.

Caveat: On the south side, units 27/29 and 26/28 are OF Deluxe villas. While the 1 bdrm side (28 and 29) directly faces the ocean, the studio part faces the other buildings. That's why OFC is the most desired villa in the place. Not only are the MFs lower, but both sides actually face the ocean.

So...when looking to buy, I'd think in my mind that you're actually buying OF on the south side and premium OVs on the north side. Is OF worth 50% more than a premium OV? Only you can answer that.

Thanks for posting this Lisa. I have always wondered which were the OFD and OFC villas. It seems pretty obvious now that I look at a unit map.

At some point I want to buy one of those but I see pros and cons to both OFC and OFD. If they both are designed as OF, how can the owner know what villa type will be assigned if you don't own a fixed villa? Or, can the owner tell the villa type during the reservation?

vacationtime1 · Dec 13, 2015

moto x said:
Thanks for posting this Lisa. I have always wondered which were the OFD and OFC villas. It seems pretty obvious now that I look at a unit map.

At some point I want to buy one of those but I see pros and cons to both OFC and OFD. If they both are designed as OF, how can the owner know what villa type will be assigned if you don't own a fixed villa? Or, can the owner tell the villa type during the reservation?

You get what you own. If you own OFD, you get OFD; if you own OFC, you get OFC.

DeniseM · Dec 13, 2015

vacationtime1 said:
You get what you own. If you own OFD, you get OFD; if you own OFC, you get OFC.

And it's specified on the confirmation itself.

LisaRex · Dec 14, 2015

moto x said:
If they both are designed as OF, how can the owner know what villa type will be assigned if you don't own a fixed villa? Or, can the owner tell the villa type during the reservation?

OFD owners can only book an OFD villa and OFC can only book OFC. There is no mixing and matching allowed. Also, the MFs for the OFD unit are a few hundred bucks more.

Keep in mind that since supply is so limited, it may also be more difficult to book during the highest demand weeks, especially if you're a single week owner. Not only did some owners fix their weeks (and it would make sense if they fixed a high demand week) but multi week owners can daisy chain their 2 reservations to begin one week prior to a high demand week, such as President's Day, and shut single week owners out.

pathways25 · Dec 14, 2015

LisaRex said:
multi week owners can daisy chain their 2 reservations to begin one week prior to a high demand week, such as President's Day, and shut single week owners out.

I don't think that's accurate. In the past, Owner Services would help book the daisy chained weeks at a little after 6AM, 1 year out, but it would be at the same time as everyone else had access to that particular week. Now with online reservations, that service is no longer useful since everybody else can book at midnight and waiting until 6AM would be a big disadvantage.

Helios · Dec 14, 2015

pathways25 said:
I don't think that's accurate. In the past, Owner Services would help book the daisy chained weeks at a little after 6AM, 1 year out, but it would be at the same time as everyone else had access to that particular week. Now with online reservations, that service is no longer useful since everybody else can book at midnight and waiting until 6AM would be a big disadvantage.

I thought you could book up to 21 days online, so, if you own three weeks you could book 2 weeks before the desirable week?

DeniseM · Dec 14, 2015

21 days is only for Staroption reservations. Home resort reservations can only be booked a week at a time.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

To bring this back around...

The 1Bd side of the OFD has panoramic views (inside and outside) that OFC does not have. This is notable when standing in the center of LR/Dining area, and also from balcony. This is the reason (more than just size differences) that OFD has proportionally higher MFs than OFC (MF/sqft). Both are great.

Little known fact - OFD and OFC cannot be reserved Fri-Fri (only Sat-Sat and Sun-Sun)

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

Front of B2
OFD on side and OFC in center

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

Sunrise view south from B2 OFD (towards BlackRock)

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

Sunrise view Lanai

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

Storm over Molokai

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

View looking back towards pool and mountains

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

Looking out from Kitchen area in OFD villa

DavidnRobin · Dec 14, 2015

OFD Kitchen

Why is Wkorv ocean front so much more than the north oceanfront

trexmdr

Ken555

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trexmdr

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Helios

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Helios

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