? for Marriott owners

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

We are strongly considering purchasing either a resale oceanfront every year or every other year at maui ocean club. We are Starwood owners at WKORV. We have heard a lot of horror stories regarding the ability to successsfully book your week with Marriott because of the 13 month multiple owner advantage. If we were to call one year ahead at opening time on the respective Thursday what are our chance for booking the week we want (which would normally be the second week in November or the second week in June). We just aren't willing to spend the money if it is going to be stressful trying to get the week we want and since we happily own at the Westin we have no intentions of buying another week at Marriott. Any input would be appreciated.

daventrina · Jun 15, 2006

As you own at WKORV there is a good chance that you would be unhappy at MOC. If you want more details, send us an email.....

We were so frustrated with Marriott that we sold our MOC week.
Marriott touts that they doe "timeshare the Marriott way" and they do. If your happy at the Westin, don't expect Marriott to be anything like it.

Stefa · Jun 15, 2006

I would think that the demand would be similar for both resorts. The second week in November shouldn't be a problem since it is low season for Hawaii. Normally the summer rush doesn't begin until after the second week in June, but that may be different at MOC because owners who are afraid they won't get the later summer weeks may call for those weeks.

I believe half of the weeks are available for the 13-month rule and the other half are available at 12 months.

One big difference between Marriott and Starwood is the way they trade through II. Because Starwood choses the week to deposite into II, you don't have owners grabbing the good weeks for deposite for trading. With Marriott, you get a certain number of owners who reserve the best weeks solely for trading purposes. (Even when they don't really need to).

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

Thanks for replying. We have decided to back off from purchasing at MOC because it sounds too stressful and the Marriott system sounds like it would be disappointing after the relatively easy reservation system at the Westin. We do not want to spend over $20k to buy a headache or be angry and disappointed by Marriott's timeshare reservation system. It sounds to me like the people who are happy about Marriott MOC are the people who own elsewhere (at a cheaper price) and traded in to MOC.

At Westin it seems like most of the people who are angry are the non-owners who get stuck with the lousy views/rooms. Most of the owners are happy.

For the money you put out to own at the resort of your choice that's the way it should be-owners should be happy, not the other way around.

sandytoes · Jun 15, 2006

Just my 2 cents . . . I just purchased my first time share at the beginning of the year . . . We bought directly from Marriott and have have not problem booking 3 weeks and even change one of the week after the fact.

I am look at buying another week in the near future.

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

Glad you are happy with your purchase but the fact that you own multiple weeks is the key - you get the 13 month reservation advantage as opposed to someone who only owns one week and only has 50% of the rooms left to reserve which is why there are so many unhappy MOC owners.

We happily own one week at the Westin and had intentions of only buying one week at Marriott. No way I'm giving Marriott over $20k to be treated like a redheaded stepchild because I only own one week. It is worth it to me to wait until I can afford a second week at Westin and be confident I can take my vacations when I want to.

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

I would suggest you don't just listen to Dave/Katrina or whichever one is the MVCI basher
Maui is the #1 demanded resort MVCI has and they have alot more happy than uphappy owners. Some people just like to whine because things are not perfect. I am sure Westin will enjoy them

daventrina said:
As you own at WKORV there is a good chance that you would be unhappy at MOC. If you want more details, send us an email.....

We were so frustrated with Marriott that we sold our MOC week.
Marriott touts that they doe "timeshare the Marriott way" and they do. If your happy at the Westin, don't expect Marriott to be anything like it.

jlee2070 · Jun 15, 2006

I've owned Marriott Waiohai on Kauai since the beginning and have had NO issues with reserving the week I wanted including July 4th last year... But generally, I don't reserve during busy Holidays because I have no restrictions on when I can travel so... I only own one week with Marriott.

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

I do not believe Dave and Tina are whiners and they had very legitimate gripes--the same ones we would have had if we had bought at MOC. I do not believe it is as difficult to book in Kuaui as it is in Maui, which is reflected by the timeshare prices.

The bottom line is Marriott's reservation system is geared for the satisfaction of the multiple-week owners at the expense of the one-week owners.

Dave M · Jun 15, 2006

mepiccolo said:
If we were to call one year ahead at opening time on the respective Thursday what are our chance for booking the week we want (which would normally be the second week in November or the second week in June).

If that's really the question, you should have no problem getting the week you want, especially for the second week in November, one of the slowest weeks of the year.

For something that is more useful than the hit-and-miss comments of the few that see this thread, consider getting more responses. Go to the Users List (link on above blue bar) and click on Search Users on the right side of the page. Then click on Advanced Search and enter the words maui ocean on the Resorts Owned line and click on Search Now. You'll find 36 TUGgers with one or more posts, all of whom own at MOC. You can send them all a short private message or e-mail message asking for help. Consider asking if they have had any difficulty reserving single weeks in early June or early November or at other non-school vacation times.

Yes, there have been a few horror stories posted here about difficulty in getting reservations at MOC. Most of those difficulties have been for peak weeks, typically January, February, holiday or vacation weeks when kids are out of school. Although not applicable to all, it's clear from past discussions here that some of those who had difficulty either didn't understand the system or expected Marriott to change the system to accommodate them.

One other fact - at least I believe it to be fact: Some people get upset when something doesn't go well and they post their complaints on forums such as this. Thus, it's normal to see the complaints from those who have had difficulty. What is nowhere near as common, I believe, is for those (most of us) who routinely make reservations with no difficulty to rush to the keyboard and pass on the info that they have successfully made reservations for another year. Thus, I believe the complaints - which are very real - are very much disproportionate to the overall Marriott reservation experience.

Finally, owning a single week is not a big disadvantage, unless you need a summer or other prime time week at a resort such as MOC with a long Platinum season. That doesn't fit your situation.

Thus, I recommend that you buy a MOC week, if you believe the vacation experience will fit your needs. I recommend that you not skip the opportunity merely because of concern - which I believe to be misplaced - that you will be unsuccessful in reserving the indicated weeks.

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

Your right. Westin is the way to go !!

( most recent Westin post)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

Just received in today's mail, estimates for refurbishing buildings 32, 22, 34, 41 and 42, not as bad as I had feared:

$782.92 per week 3 bedrooms
$652.52 per week 2 bedrooms
$522.13 per week 1 bedroom
$391.74 per week studio

The project will include completely new furnishings, and remodeling the kitchens and bathrooms in buildings 33, 34, 41 and 42.

Two-thirds favorable vote of the owners is required.

Lori

mepiccolo said:
I do not believe Dave and Tina are whiners and they had very legitimate gripes--the same ones we would have had if we had bought at MOC. I do not believe it is as difficult to book in Kuaui as it is in Maui, which is reflected by the timeshare prices.

The bottom line is Marriott's reservation system is geared for the satisfaction of the multiple-week owners at the expense of the one-week owners.

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

Now your just plain not making sense. The reason Maui is more money is because it's harder to make reservations ? Hah ?

Maui is more money due to demand, PERIOD

Dave & Trina knew how MVCI worked when they bought. As long as they got their week, they would have loved MVCI. Once owners started to book before them, they screamed foul. Thats at the very least sounds like uneducated buyers. MVCI didn't trick them, make things unfair for them , etc. Read the rules and either buy or don't !!

mepiccolo said:
I do not believe Dave and Tina are whiners and they had very legitimate gripes--the same ones we would have had if we had bought at MOC. I do not believe it is as difficult to book in Kuaui as it is in Maui, which is reflected by the timeshare prices. As usual, Dave is the voice of reason !!

The bottom line is Marriott's reservation system is geared for the satisfaction of the multiple-week owners at the expense of the one-week owners.

jwq387 · Jun 15, 2006

Dave M said:
If that's really the question, you should have no problem getting the week you want, especially for the second week in November, one of the slowest weeks of the year.

For something that is more useful than the hit-and-miss comments of the few that see this thread, consider getting more responses. Go to the Users List (link on above blue bar) and click on Search Users on the right side of the page. Then click on Advanced Search and enter the words maui ocean on the Resorts Owned line and click on Search Now. You'll find 36 TUGgers with one or more posts, all of whom own at MOC. You can send them all a short private message or e-mail message asking for help. Consider asking if they have had any difficulty reserving single weeks in early June or early November or at other non-school vacation times.

Yes, there have been a few horror stories posted here about difficulty in getting reservations at MOC. Most of those difficulties have been for peak weeks, typically January, February, holiday or vacation weeks when kids are out of school. Although not applicable to all, it's clear from past discussions here that some of those who had difficulty either didn't understand the system or expected Marriott to change the system to accommodate them.

One other fact - at least I believe it to be fact: Some people get upset when something doesn't go well and they post their complaints on forums such as this. Thus, it's normal to see the complaints from those who have had difficulty. What is nowhere near as common, I believe, is for those (most of us) who routinely make reservations with no difficulty to rush to the keyboard and pass on the info that they have successfully made reservations for another year. Thus, I believe the complaints - which are very real - are very much disproportionate to the overall Marriott reservation experience.

Finally, owning a single week is not a big disadvantage, unless you need a summer or other prime time week at a resort such as MOC with a long Platinum season. That doesn't fit your situation.

Thus, I recommend that you buy a MOC week, if you believe the vacation experience will fit your needs. I recommend that you not skip the opportunity merely because of concern - which I believe to be misplaced - that you will be unsuccessful in reserving the indicated weeks.

I agree with Dave. Remember the 3/33 rule. If you have a complaint, you will tell 33 people. If you have a good customer service experience, you will only tell 3 people, on average. Nobody likes to read good news-too boring. I don't know Dave and Trina, and I am sure they have a leigitimate gripe-FOR PRIME SEASON RESERVATIONS ONLY. November and early June are NOT prime season in Maui, IMHO. Buy Marriott, you will not be disappointed.

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

You reiterated what I meant, Maui is more expensive than Kuaui due to popular demand, hence it is harder to make reservations in Maui than Kuaui

I appreciate that there are a lot of happy Marriott owners and that is great - who can go wrong owning in the most sought after vacation destination.

The 13 month advantage to multiple week owners just rubs me the wrong way because I will never be a multiple week owner at Marriott so why join a game where I'll forever be the underdog? In the future when my kids are in school I would join the masses in trying to get a summer week reserved from an availability of only 50% of the units. I would probably get lucky sometimes but if I'm paying over $20k I want to be assured I can vacation when I want in the resort I paid to own at and not be pushed out by people who don't even own in Maui just because they own more than one week elsewhere.

Congratulations to all of you who own more than one week and have the 13-month advantage and therefore no worries about your vacation plans.

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

Your missing the point. Demand has nothing to do with the reservation system. In fact Maui is not sold out but Kuaui is so getting a week statistically is easier in MAui since there are less owners per villa. It's simple math

mepiccolo said:
You reiterated what I meant, Maui is more expensive than Kuaui due to popular demand, hence it is harder to make reservations in Maui than Kuaui

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

I think you need to do a bit more homework. You have to own at least 1 week in Maui to book at the 13 mth window. Just because they can book 50% of the inventory doesn't mean they do. I was told by a Rep that usually 10 or 15% get booked.

I want to be assured I can vacation when I want in the resort I paid to own at and not be pushed out by people who don't even own in Maui just because they own more than one week elsewhere.

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

I am amused and curious if you are a Marriott salesperson?

Regardless, nothing you have said has changed my mind. I thought the rooms at MOC were really nice and the resort is beautiful but the 13-month advantage to multiple week owners is the pill I find too hard to swallow.

I like the Westin's policy of only letting owners of the home resort to reserve 8 to 12 months ahead of the date they want to vacation leaving the owners happy. As I understand by what you said someone need only own one week in Maui to reserve 2 weeks in Maui if they own elsewhere and are trading up. That 2nd week advantage to them is still an insult to the people who paid more to own one week in Maui and are having a hard time getting a summer week, for example, because the exchangers are booking them up in advance ahead of the home resort owners. Then they have to wait for these people to hopefully change their mind and rebook one of their weeks for another week??? I am too busy to add that stress to my plate-especially for a vacation!

When you speak to the salespeople at MOC obviously they don't go into the 13-month advantage with you, as a potential one week owner, to let you know you are standing in line behind all the multiple week owners. From the other postings I've seen pretty much all of summer is considered a prime week. I will decide when I want to go on vacation-I will not pay someone to decide it for me based on availability.

I leave you either as a happy MOC owner or a happy employee

Dean · Jun 15, 2006

mepiccolo said:
I do not believe Dave and Tina are whiners and they had very legitimate gripes--the same ones we would have had if we had bought at MOC. I do not believe it is as difficult to book in Kuaui as it is in Maui, which is reflected by the timeshare prices.

The bottom line is Marriott's reservation system is geared for the satisfaction of the multiple-week owners at the expense of the one-week owners.

There are certainly risks and it may not be for you. You should be comfortable with what you purchase. However it appeared to me daventrina had unreasonable expectations from what i recall of the various discussions.

The 13 month advantage to multiple week owners just rubs me the wrong way because I will never be a multiple week owner at Marriott so why join a game where I'll forever be the underdog? In the future when my kids are in school I would join the masses in trying to get a summer week reserved from an availability of only 50% of the units. I would probably get lucky sometimes but if I'm paying over $20k I want to be assured I can vacation when I want in the resort I paid to own at and not be pushed out by people who don't even own in Maui just because they own more than one week elsewhere.

Congratulations to all of you who own more than one week and have the 13-month advantage and therefore no worries about your vacation plans.

Two ways to look at it I guess. It is an advantages to own multiple weeks and to reserve under the 13 month option. And if you're looking at top weeks there, it would hamper your chances quite a bit. I took the other approach, I went out and bought a second week though I own at Grande Ocean, not in Maui. To say no worries in reserving for 13 months out is overstatement. If you want to take the us vs them stance as some have in the past, that is also your option.

One thing you stated above is totally wrong. No one can reserve a MMO week unless they own there. The only question is when can they reserved. Some felt like it was a violation of the rules as well as unreasonable to allow those who owned at MMO, but also owned elsewhere, to reserve at the 13 month window. Wrong on both counts, but within their right be believe so.

Eric · Jun 15, 2006

Yeah, thats it, I am trying to sell you a week. I am not a salesman but I would prefer you DIDN"T buy there and I am trying to get you to undertand the rules. Either you are explaining it wrong or you don't understand it !!
You say
""because the exchangers are booking them up in advance ahead of the home resort owners""
What the heck are you talking about ? Exchangers cannot book Maui. It's not like the Westin system. ONLY MAUI OWNERS can book Maui. Please either learn the rules or explain them correctly before posting. Once more for the back row. NO EXCHANGER can bump a Maui owner from getting there week.
Second bit of mis-information. When a resort is sold out ALL the owners have to book a week. The fact that Maui is more popular does not make it any harder to book a week. The reason Maui is harder to book summer is the owners in Maui must like summer better than the owners in Kauai. NOT becuase it's higher demand... geez

mepiccolo said:
I am amused and curious if you are a Marriott salesperson?

Regardless, nothing you have said has changed my mind. I thought the rooms at MOC were really nice and the resort is beautiful but the 13-month advantage to multiple week owners is the pill I find too hard to swallow.

I like the Westin's policy of only letting owners of the home resort to reserve 8 to 12 months ahead of the date they want to vacation leaving the owners happy. As I understand by what you said someone need only own one week in Maui to reserve 2 weeks in Maui if they own elsewhere and are trading up. That 2nd week advantage to them is still an insult to the people who paid more to own one week in Maui and are having a hard time getting a summer week, for example, because the exchangers are booking them up in advance ahead of the home resort owners. Then they have to wait for these people to hopefully change their mind and rebook one of their weeks for another week??? I am too busy to add that stress to my plate-especially for a vacation!

When you speak to the salespeople at MOC obviously they don't go into the 13-month advantage with you, as a potential one week owner, to let you know you are standing in line behind all the multiple week owners. From the other postings I've seen pretty much all of summer is considered a prime week. I will decide when I want to go on vacation-I will not pay someone to decide it for me based on availability.

I leave you either as a happy MOC owner or a happy employee

sandesurf · Jun 15, 2006

Okay, I'll admit it, I'm worried... We just bought at MOC and the ONLY time we can travel is during July or August. We DO NOT have the 13 mo. advantage. I plan on having two phones and the computer "ready" as soon as those lines open on the 12 month out day but just how "lucky" will we need to be to get there??
Any tips will be appreciated!

armlem2 · Jun 15, 2006

mepiccolo said:
.

I like the Westin's policy of only letting owners of the home resort to reserve 8 to 12 months ahead of the date they want to vacation leaving the owners happy. As I understand by what you said someone need only own one week in Maui to reserve 2 weeks in Maui if they own elsewhere and are trading up. That 2nd week advantage to them is still an insult to the people who paid more to own one week in Maui and are having a hard time getting a summer week, for example, because the exchangers are booking them up in advance ahead of the home resort owners. Then they have to wait for these people to hopefully change their mind and rebook one of their weeks for another week???

I think you are mistaken on how the 13 mth rule works. First you can only use it to book 2 weeks concurrently or consectively. If someone wants to book 2 weeks at MOC under this rule they must own 2 weeks there. Otherwise they can book one week there and one week somewhere else where they own during the same season. They can book another week at the same time or before or after the week they book MOC.

Hence if you want to book the 2nd week in June. The only advantage the 13mth rule would create is for people who a) own 2 weeks at MOC and want the same time you do. b) people who own 2 weeks and they want the same week at MOC and the following or preceding week somewhere else provided they own during the same season at the other resort- they can not upgrade

Steve · Jun 15, 2006

A bit of clarification

There have indeed been some misunderstandings in this thread.

Let me try to clear one thing up. A person who owns 1 week on Maui and 1 week somewhere else in the Marriott system CANNOT reserve 2 weeks on Maui at 13 months out. This is not how the system works.

For example, I own a platinum week at Marriott's Manor Club. Let's say I buy a platinum week at MOC. Since I own 2 platinum Marriott weeks and the platinum seasons at the two resorts overlap, I can call at 13 months out (instead of 12 months out) and reserve my weeks AT MY RESPECTIVE resorts. So if I want to book July 2007, for example, I can call right now in June 2006 and reserve 1 week at Manor Club starting July 1, 2007 followed by 1 week at Maui Ocean Club starting July 8, 2007.

I cannot book 2 weeks on Maui nor 2 weeks at Manor Club. I can only book what I own...and that is 1 week at MOC and 1 week at Manor Club.

If I want to stay 2 weeks on Maui (and zero weeks at Manor Club), then I have to put a request in through II to exchange my Manor Club week for the 2nd week on Maui. ALL the owners at MOC...regardless of how many weeks they own...will be able to reserve their owned weeks with Marriott before I will even have a chance of getting my exchange through II.

I hope this helps!

Steve

mepiccolo · Jun 15, 2006

Thanks all for clearing it up. May everyone enjoy their respective Maui Vacations at their requested times. We appreciate everyone's input.

daventrina · Jun 16, 2006

sandesurf said:
... the ONLY time we can travel is during July or August. I plan on having two phones and the computer "ready" as soon as those lines open on the 12 month out day ...
Any tips will be appreciated!

This is the biggest problem we had. We have to work with in the schedule of the school system that means we had to travel in July or August. The thing that was a killer for us was that we had to coordinate with our Embasys week and sometimes an exchange week also. To work with the Embassy and our schedule we needed a Satuday checkin that compounded the problem further.
If you have a window of travel you should pick the first date in the July or August that you can use instead of picking a date in the end of your travel range. This will make it much easier to snag a reservation. Once you have one, you can always check to see if you can grab one at a later date that will work better withy your schedule. At least that way you will have a week that you can use. We found that when we complained enough that after the $250000 /year we pay for owner services, and the $125000/year we pay for reservations, and the $200000/year we pay for the front desk, and the nearly $2000000/year Marriott gets in management fees that they is no way they can justify charging us $29 to change the date of our reservation they would wave the change fee.
It could be worse. Our parents owned at Tahoe and needed to travel Thanksgiving week. Out of the 4 years that they owned it, the only reservation that they were ever able to make was the one that the sales rep made for them when the signed the contract :wall:

Additionally, you could work with the board to stop depositing peak travel weeks that owners at the resort want to use with II. This is a big contributing factor in the reservation problems at Maui (the same as with Tahoe). For Maui, it makes no difference which week is deposited with II to exchange because the demand for the resort is so high.
If don't have or can't find the email addresses for the board, we can get them to you.

daventrina · Jun 16, 2006

Re: A bit of clarification

Steve said:
There have indeed been some misunderstandings in this thread.
Let me try to clear one thing up. A person who owns 1 week on Maui and 1 week somewhere else in the Marriott system CANNOT reserve 2 weeks on Maui at 13 months out. This is not how the system works.
Steve

A lot of the confusion is created because MVCI does not follow the rules (and they are a legal bind document files with the State). Steve, your example is flawed in that the rules for MOC (and Timber Lodge, Aruba and several other resorts) are worded to require more than one week owned AT THAT RESORT to make a reservation 13 months out AT THAT RESORT. The MOC rules (and many others) do not allow for a 13 month reservation at MOC when the consecutive week is at another resort. E.g. you cannot reserve one week at Palm Desert and the next at Maui 13 months out as far as the rules are concerned. Additionally, all reservation made 13 months out are required to be cancelled in there entirety if any one of the reservations are cancelled. Furthermore, the weeks reserved 13 months out cannot be exchanged and at Maui at least they can’t be rented (at least as far as the rules go, but MVCI allows that to happen anyway). MVCI’s cooperate office and legal department as far as we know are still trying to sort out the mess that the sales department created when the changed the reservations policy with out changing the rules at all of the participating resorts. MVCI continues to ignore the rules of the resort and allow people to book 13 months out when they shouldn’t. For example say book Maui and Palm Desert as consecutive. We know that some are tempted to say you can’t, but there are owners on TUG that have said they have done just that. Even worse, there are owners that have stated that they have made reservations 13 months out by repeatedly calling reservations and demanding to make a reservation 13 months out just because they own more than one week. Eventually they harass the reservationists enough that they make the reservation for one week 13 months out. Again, that should never happen, but there are TUGgers that have said they have done it.

(We’ve been blasted more than enough for saying that :ignore

OOPs we did it again, guess we’ll get blasted again…

We stand by our statement that if you own at WKORV (or many other resorts) there is a good chance that you would be unhappy at MOC.

We intended to keep this private, but as long as we’re going to get bashed, may as well say it anyway.
We had no clue as to how then internals of MVCI worked when we bought our week. We love the resort (well at least until they plant two new 12 story towers on it anyway). We bought our week resale from another developer. The previous owner traded it in for The Mona Loa Village on the Big Island. We thought that they were nuts. We couldn’t figure out why someone would trade in the Maui Marriott for the Mona Loa Village (or any other resort for that matter). And then we found out.

Making reservations with MVCI is an absolute nightmare. A large contributing factor is the way that the resort allows MVCI to give high demand weeks to II for exchange when there are owners at the resort that would like to use those weeks. This makes it more difficult for owners to get the weeks that they need at their resort.

Marriott refuses to upgrade owners in their own resort. So for example, someone from Palm Desert paying half the maint. fees that we do in Maui get placed in an ocean front unit (while an owner at the resort remains in the ocean view/garden view room). The quality assurance rep told us that “if you want to be upgraded, you have to give your week to II and exchange back into your resort. We never upgrade owners in their resort.” We asked whey we couldn’t just pay the HOA the $99 and keep the money in our resort. She just said “we never upgrade owners in their own resort.” Marriott seems to cater to the exchange program. Those that are happiest are those that buy and generally trade out of their resort. We just refuse to be treated second rate in our own resort.
We find it interesting when someone trades their XYZ resort (that is no where near a beach) into WKOVR (the nicest resort on the #1 island in the world) and then complains that they had a view of the parking lot because all of the ocean front units were given to people that own at the resort.

MOC closes the pool at 8pm - they extend it until 9pm in the summer (BTW: the spa down the walk at the Starwood resorts are open till 11PM). The cost of running the pool is almost a million dollars a year (that works out to about $35/day for your week stay). We don’t spend our money to go to Maui to hang at the pool, but we really like to crash in the spa after dinner and a day of exploring. That is difficult to do when it’s closed by 8 or 9PM.

The management fee Marriott collects works out to almost a third of the maint. fees (which are running almost $1300/yr for a 1BR). We feel that a 30% fee is just too high. The maint fees went from $800 to $1200 over the 3 years that we owned the resort. Meanwhile at EVR, the fees have gone from $590 to $650 over 4 years.

We felt that the property was crowded enough as it was, now they are building two new 12 story towers, one on each side of the existing buildings. And it appears that those owners will have rights to use the existing superpool, but it still isn't clear that the maint fees for these owners will be adjusted so the new towers will pick up their share of the pool costs. BTW the cost of the new units make the Westin look like a good deal.

The staff and management just don't seem to get the fact that the resort belongs to the owners. It still seems to run like a hotel. With the hotel operation gone, this may improve some. But we’re still not sure that the staff will ever figure out that their paycheck comes from the resort owners.

Dean said:
However it appeared to me daventrina had unreasonable expectations from what i recall of the various discussions.

We're not sure which of any of our expectations were unreasonable.

It is not unreasonable to expect to be able to stay at your resort when you need/want to
It is not unreasonable to expect to be treated as an owner in the resort that you own
It is not unreasonable to expect to be able to use the pool/spa that you spend $1000000/year on within reasonable hours.
It is not unreasonable to expect the company that manages the resort to follow the rules of the resort.
It is not unreasonable to expedt the fees charges to manage the resort to be reasonable

So which of our expectations was it that are unresonable?

? for Marriott owners

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