Who has the best point system around?

Hi I have been a weeks owner for years, I have learned a lot from tug.
Now its time to add to my travel stock. Who has the best point system around, Rci, Bluegreen, trent west, worldmark.
I know how much to pay, but which one has been in the business for a while and is still treating their custumers fair.
I own at the Orange Lake resort, they are starting Global point system.
I hate to turn over my 2 bedroom unit it has served me well.
Should I wait and join the Global point system or should I look for another point system.
Waiting for a Tug member information
Linda

trent west is WM's developer. I assume you mean Fairfield. RCI, FF, TW are all own by the same company, so there is no say which one is best. BG is different system. IMHO, historywise, FF probably is longest. WM probably has best use of internet thus commuicate with owner better. BG is at the stage where it has build a foundation of its system but still try to explore it.

As to Global Points, from what I read, most of its owner still in the stage to figure out what it is, and sounds like it still try to figure itself out. More likely, at the starting point, it will use RCI point system, and unless things change immediately, it only have very limit choice inside the system. If you think RCI point, you can wait a while to see what GP actually will give you.

Otherwise, find a chain that has a lot selections close to your home so you can just take advantage the flexibility of points.

Jya-Ning

HGVC I think has the best point service

I am a member of RCI points & Hilton Grand Vacations Club & I like the HGVC better! I can do a search with weeks & points with HGVC!! I haven't not like much about there points but sometimes there locations but with RCI I get 1st trading power!!

Cappy said:

I am a member of RCI points & Hilton Grand Vacations Club & I like the HGVC better! I can do a search with weeks & points with HGVC!! I haven't not like much about there points but sometimes there locations but with RCI I get 1st trading power!!

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I only have RCI Points, and I'm a new member at that, but I really like it so far. You can reserve at both weeks and points resorts.

armrecsys, depending on how much $$ they want to convert your resort to weeks, maybe you could pick up a cheap points account somewhere, and then deposit your Orange Lake resort into the RCI Points system or continue to use it in weeks at your choosing.

Teresa

WorldMark by a long shot

We own WM and I use their system daily – I can only relate to other folks experience when I say – WM is the best, most flexible, cost effective, Point System around.

We used to own 5 Marriotts – sold them all to buy WM credits and fractional timeshares. We turn around and get back to any of the 5 with little problem with exchanging in II. Only the Marriott Maui Ocean Club is off limits to WM owners and perhaps anyone besides a Four Seasons.

I doubt anyone can point out a more user friendly and easy to master program than WM. All the rules can be written on 1 page and you can buy an account that will get you into any Marriott (but Maui) for just $8,000 with a MF of $500.

It takes only 4,000 WM credits to exchange into any reservation in II at the 59-day mark (Marriott’s priority window excluded). In quantities of 20,000 WM credits the MF is around 4¢ each for $160 per exchange plus the $135 exchange fee. There are so many Marriotts in Florida that you could live in Florida Marriotts 52 weeks a year.

WazzuCougFan said:

armrecsys, depending on how much $$ they want to convert your resort to weeks, maybe you could pick up a cheap points account somewhere, and then deposit your Orange Lake resort into the RCI Points system or continue to use it in weeks at your choosing.

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If Orange lake converts to RCI points (I believe that the new Orange lake global points is just a fancy RCI point program) you will not be able to deposit your orange lake into RCI points unless you convert your orange lake TS to RCI points.

Joining RCI points may be a good option for many people, BUT when the resorts look at converting to RCI points as a way to get a whole bunch more money from you then I say don't convert.

Bill4728 said:

If Orange lake converts to RCI points (I believe that the new Orange lake global points is just a fancy RCI point program) you will not be able to deposit your orange lake into RCI points unless you convert your orange lake TS to RCI points.

Joining RCI points may be a good option for many people, BUT when the resorts look at converting to RCI points as a way to get a whole bunch more money from you then I say don't convert.

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Orange Lake's model is closer to HGVC. From what I understand - and it is limited - it is an internal points system similiar to HGVC where you make internal reservation but if you want to exchange, the resort will do it for you (for a fee probably). You don't actually have an RCI Points account where points are deposited into it (again, from what I understand). The resort is suppose to be sending me some information but most of my information has came from this site.

PerryM said:

.......Only the Marriott Maui Ocean Club is off limits to WM owners and perhaps anyone besides a Four Seasons.

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Perry,

What do you mean that Marriot Maui Ocean is off limits to WM owners and Four Seasons?

Worldmark

Hi Linda,
Like you, we also own at Orange Lake and Lawrence Welk (Escondido). We also own at the Donatello in S.F. and our last purchase was with Worldmark.
We bought Worldmark points because whenever we traded we seemed to trade to their locations and properties. We have been very happy with them and have since used some of their resorts for family reunions. My brother n law was so impressed that he bought Worldmark points after his experience there. His daughter is now looking to buy because she fell in love with Windsor.
All I can tell you is what we like and our experiences. Works for us.
Bart

My theory

Luv Maui,

What I meant to say is that I think that Marriott has instructed II that ONLY Marriott owners can exchange into the Maui Marriott. I exchanged a Gold Summit Watch for a Platinum Maui this summer (the week after the 4th of July - a studio). While I had the Gold Summit Watch searching (it was a studio) I had a 3BR WM active and, in fact, it was several months older (in terms of when I initially started searching for the Maui Marriott) and the Gold Summit Watch got it over a 3BR WM.

The only exchanger more powerful than a 3BR WM is a Four Seasons (I think), however WM’s get Four Seasons and all Marriotts on a regular basis – with the exception of the Maui Marriott.

This is a guess on my part, but it does explain why a studio Gold Marriott week got a Platinum Maui Marriott instead of a 3BR WM.

If some WM owner has snagged a Maui Marriott, I’d like to know.

Wouldn't your Gold Marriott have 30days when it could see and grab the Platinum Marriott and your 3BR WM couldn't see it.

Perry: Have a question-are you able to get holidays and "highest" red seasons when you exchange WM for Marriott or other top timeshares? For example: July or Aug at Marriott Newport Coast?

Do you use II exclusively (now that RCI has WM changed over)? We are owners in both MAR and WM so any insights is greatly appreciated.

How would you get Aruba in a specific week (to tag onto an already confirmed St. Maarten for 2/07)? Thanks in advance

Ah-ha -- Perry. You give II a WM 3 bedroom credit value and that opens up all doors??? Am I on the right track from my earlier questions to you?

PerryM said:

I doubt anyone can point out a more user friendly and easy to master program than WM. All the rules can be written on 1 page and you can buy an account that will get you into any Marriott (but Maui) for just $8,000 with a MF of $500.

It takes only 4,000 WM credits to exchange into any reservation in II at the 59-day mark (Marriott’s priority window excluded). In quantities of 20,000 WM credits the MF is around 4¢ each for $160 per exchange plus the $135 exchange fee. There are so many Marriotts in Florida that you could live in Florida Marriotts 52 weeks a year.

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While I am not a WM owner, I have read/studied their 44page 2005 Owners Education Handbook and it appears much more complicated than the Sunterra system 46page guide.

• Sunterra has no housekeeping credits.
• Sunterra allows partial week reservations anytime, not just 60days ahead in Red Time..
• Sunterra I.I. reservations are half-price during the 59day flexchange window.
• Sunterra Club reservations are half-price during the 59day before start window.

If I were a WM owner, I'm sure I would be happy with their system and learn to work it properly.

Cathyb said:

.....to tag onto an already confirmed St. Maarten for 2/07?

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Island hopping in the Caribbean isn't the relatively cheap thing it is in the Hawaiian Islands.

I like to exchange into Marriotts

Spence,

II has nothing to do with Marriott’s “tinkering” with the 24 day window. A Marriott employee actually set’s the “Flag” for Marriott only exchanges. These folks make mistakes all the time – sometimes they forget to set the “flag” and the WM snaps up the Marriott ahead of other Platinum Marriotts. A 3BR WM is an awesome exchanger.

At the 59-day II window the 24 day Marriott exclusive window seems to shrink to 3 days – this is entirely up to Marriott and II has nothing to do with it. I know that the Marriott employees screw up and forget to set the flag correctly and other, non-Marriott, owners can get the week.

Cathyb,

We love Marriotts, really love them, we just don’t see a need to own any of them. WM has a number of features that no other timeshare has in II:

• WM allows for an infinite number of active II searches
• WM owners can just rent II units for 7¢ a credit from II
• WM owners can pay just 4,000 WM credits at the 59-day II window

WM allows for an infinite number of active II searches
I regularly have 10+ ongoing exchanges active at any moment in II. Each exchange typically has 5+ different destinations and dates. I’m counting on the Marriott employee to screw up and let us ski Summit Watch and MountainSide at Christmas time like we did last year.

WM owners can just rent II units for 7¢ a credit from II
A Marriott owner, who owns just 1 lock-off unit, can place a maximum of 2 on-going exchange in II at anyone instant. A WM owner can have 100 ongoing exchanges active if they want and it doesn’t cost you a credit until you get an exchange. Then they can either turn in credits, or borrow from next year’s usage, or rent them from other WM owners for 5¢ each, or II will charge 7¢ a credit. A 2BR Red week costs 10,000 WM credits or just charge $700 on your credit card to II. You can do this 52 weeks a year.

WM owners can pay just 4,000 WM credits at the 59-day II window
It costs me 4¢ in MFs for our WM credits in our account. We have spent many a week at various Marriotts for the $160 + $135 exchange fee = $295. I can’t even count how many weeks we spend at Marriott’s Beach Place Towers and they spend $1,000 per week in MFs.

I like II – I like their resorts and I guess I could exploit RCI equally, but we have RCI units to do this and RCI Points.

If you want to reserve a specific day of the year or week end simply enter that and enter a search for a week 52 at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club and the Westin Maui (you will never get either but it allows for 3 searches which II wants)

If you want a specific day to check in, like a Saturday, you must call II and talk to a person there and tell them the specific day – you can only get a specific weekend on the internet.

Spence,
Sunterra is in bankruptcy and who know what will happen – heck TrendWest might buy them. I’m not a Sunterra expert and am just going by what others, over the years, have said. I still think WM is easier, and has far more flexibility, especially with owning just a minimum account and renting unlimited credits from other owners for peanuts - NO outlay of capital and NO MF's with rented credits.

PerryM said:

Spence,
Sunterra is in bankruptcy and who know what will happen – heck TrendWest might buy them. I’m not a Sunterra expert and am just going by what others, over the years, have said. I still think WM is easier, and has far more flexibility, especially with owning just a minimum account and renting unlimited credits from other owners for peanuts - NO outlay of capital and NO MF's with rented credits.

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Unless you know something I don't... Sunterra is not in Bankruptcy. There were Chap 11 protection from Bankruptcy four or five years ago, but came out and their stock value is $11.50, with a recent target price quoted from JMP Securities of upwards of $15.00, not indicative of BK. Are there problems at corporate, yes, but they don't involve bankruptcy. Target price may be indicative of partition and sale of the Company, who knows, not the common timeshare owner.

Club Sunterra members can have multiple searches in I.I. like you describe for WM.

PerryM said:

renting unlimited credits from other owners for peanuts -

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Please reiterate how this is done.

PerryM said:

Sunterra is in bankruptcy and who know what will happen – heck TrendWest might buy them. I’m not a Sunterra expert and am just going by what others, over the years, have said. I still think WM is easier, and has far more flexibility, especially with owning just a minimum account and renting unlimited credits from other owners for peanuts - NO outlay of capital and NO MF's with rented credits.

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As Spence noted Sunterra is NOT in bankruptcy although they are planning to sell their European holdings. The US side of the business is making money but may be in for a restructuring or possible sale but not due to bankruptcy. Posting that they are in bankruptcy as a fact could give owners unnecessary worries or give pause to potential buyers. In either case Sunterra wouldn't be happy and you may want to revise your post to prevent the possible confusion it may cause.

I'm not sure I'd put Sunterra on the "best points systems" list as I prefer both FF and RCI Points over them but it isn't because of the 5 year old bankruptcy procedure that I rank them 3rd in my portfolio. It is the convoluted and undefined transfer process for Club membership that turns me off. As an owner of Club points I like the system but trying to buy more or sell what I own would be a nightmare and thus it's tough to recomend the system as a good buy.

Bill4728 said:

If Orange lake converts to RCI points (I believe that the new Orange lake global points is just a fancy RCI point program) you will not be able to deposit your orange lake into RCI points unless you convert your orange lake TS to RCI points.

Joining RCI points may be a good option for many people, BUT when the resorts look at converting to RCI points as a way to get a whole bunch more money from you then I say don't convert.

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Thanks for clarifying this for me, Bill. This Orange Lake thing is a little confusing to me. I thought any week could be deposited into a points account, using Points For Deposit, as long as the person owned a separate points resort and had an RCI Points account.

Teresa

The math

Spence,

Just before we went to Maui over the 4th of July I read yet another article (I can’t remember where) about the bankruptcy (Chapter 11) of Sunterra – this was a new article about some new information. Since I would never buy Sunterra I never kept a link to the article. I just remember thinking that when we hit the Embassy (Or whatever it was calling itself) I was going to find out more about what was going on. We never completed the sales tour at the Embassy so I never got the answer.

I apologize if my assumption of the bankruptcy proceedings having an affect on timeshare owners – the article I read lead me to that conclusion (A sale to another party); but I never got to follow up.


WM owners only need a 6,000 credit account and can rent hundreds of thousands of WM credits from other owners. TW sponsors this (That shows just how insane TW is – why buy from a TW salesrep when you can rent unlimited credits from other owners for about 5¢ each).

The official TW web site at http://forums.trendwest.com/ubb-threads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=rent (I don’t know if a non WM owner can view the thread) Owners are encouraged to rent their unneeded credits for whatever the market will bear.

Example:
I want 3, II 2BR Red week exchanges a year – that will cost 10,000 * 3 = 30,000 WM credits.

I can buy 30,000 WM credits for 80¢ each or $24,000 on the resale market. (TW charges $1.80 or $54,000) The MF would be 4¢ each or $1,200 per year.

OR, I buy a 6,000 credit WM for $4,800 + $150 transfer and closing fee = $4,950 and rent 24,000 credits for 5¢ each from the TW web site = $1,200 then add the MF for the 6,000 credits of about $405 totals $1,605 per year with just $4,950 up front cash.

There are some owners who rent hundreds of thousands of credits (the BOD has reported this) so it’s well known.

I don’t know if another timeshare developer allows for this – you would think the sales reps would blow a fuse.


Conclusion:
For about $5,000 you can have unlimited II exchanges into just about any timeshare in II for any week. You can rent the 10,000 credits needed for the II exchange for the 5¢ each or $500 + $135 exchange fee or $635 and do this 52 weeks a year.

That means a couple could retire to Florida, and stay at Marriotts 52 weeks a year for $635 * 52 = $33,020 via WM.

They could do the same thing buy waiting 59-days before check in and spend just 4,000 WM credits and the cost would be $200 + $135 or $335 * 52 weeks = $17,420 a year. There are ALWAYS 3BR, 2BR, 1BR, and studios at the 59-day mark in Orlando.

Perry - Tell us about the advantage of a no housekeeping account, it doesn't really look like a big deal for the premium purchase price it demands.

nice summary perry
I own hgvc and fairfield and have always traded weeks with II. But Worldmark credits would be the way to go for points trading in II

PerryM said:

Spence,

They could do the same thing buy waiting 59-days before check in and spend just 4,000 WM credits and the cost would be $200 + $135 or $335 * 52 weeks = $17,420 a year. There are ALWAYS 3BR, 2BR, 1BR, and studios at the 59-day mark in Orlando.

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That is a great retirement plan for snowbird during the winter months.... I would not thought of that..

Every NHK has a built in profit for the owner

Spence,

We bought a No House Keeping (NHK) account about a year ago and it has already saved us money. Basically WM has 230,000+ owners and the first 2,000 owners got a special deal – they never have to pay a penny’s worth of house keeping charges – ever. These 2,000 accounts can be resold and they carry all the rights and privileges with them. You can add any number of credits to the account to make it bigger - they all are free from housekeeping charges. (so are rented credits)

These accounts, over the years, are disappearing – owners forget about them and sell them and WM combines the account into existing accounts and the NHK disappears for ever. We read about these “accidents” on the WMowners.com site once in a while.

Less than 10 of these NHK accounts appear for sale each year and sell for $1.25 to $1.75 a credit – depending on the size of the account for sale. The average is $1.50 for a 6,000 account – resale. TW sells new WM credits for $1.80 so it’s a bargain compared to developer sales.

Here’s how handy the account is:
We did an II exchange into a 3BR Sands of Kahana in Maui for Jan of ’07. We wanted a Friday check-in with a Monday check-out (11 day, we need Tuesday since we leave Midnight on Monday) (Save 35% by not flying Sat to Sat)

There were just scraps left at the MW Kihei resort on Maui and I booked the following:
Fri 2BR $50 cleaning fee
Sat 1BR $45 cleaning fee
Sun 1BR no view $45 cleaning fee
Mon 2BR limited view$50 cleaning fee
Tue 2BR no view $50 cleaning fee

That’s 5 separate reservations (booked just 6 months out - Kihei is all booked except for scraps) and normally we would have to pay $240 in cleaning fees – we pay $0 since we have a NHK account.

We bought our 6,000 credit NHK for $1.50 each or $9,000. When we eventually sell our WM account we will add an additional 6,000 credits that cost us 80¢ or $4,800 and sell the entire 12,000 NHK account for at least $1.50 or $18,000 and make a profit of $4,200.

Depending on the market we might add more and sell a 20,000 credit account for slightly less per credit and make even more profit – we will see.

Owning a NHK account cost’s the owner NOTHING since they can add in more credits and resell if for a handsome profit.

Our real goal, retire in less than 5 years, is to travel up and down the west coast and stay 2 or 3 days at WM resorts (there are 40 or so on the west coast) and never pay one cent in house keeping fees.