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Old October 26, 2006, 01:24 PM   #1
TUGBrian
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Thumbs up Updated "Starwood Vacation Ownership" Advice Article

A huge thank you to "Seenett" for starting this article back in 2001 and constantly updating it for the benefit of all TUG members!

Be sure to check out the latest revision!

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_...on_Network.htm

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Old October 26, 2006, 02:34 PM   #2
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Maybe it's just me, but is the whole article supposed to be centered? I would be easier on the eyes if it was left justified.

Good job Chris!
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Old October 26, 2006, 02:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeniseM
Maybe it's just me, but is the whole article supposed to be centered? I would be easier on the eyes if it was left justified.

Good job Chris!

I can left justify it if you all want...guess I wasnt paying attention!
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Old October 26, 2006, 02:45 PM   #4
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Thank you Seenett...as a new owner (less than 1yr) this info is extremely helpful....your efforts are strongly appreciated!
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Old October 26, 2006, 03:07 PM   #5
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Great update!

Great job, Chris. Thanks for putting it all together again.

Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?

If you buy 2 weeks developer and 1 week resale, do you pay the SVN fee on the resale week (3rd week) because it wasn't "authorized?"
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Old October 26, 2006, 03:28 PM   #6
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An excellent effort by Chris. Superb.
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Old October 26, 2006, 03:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniselew
Great job, Chris. Thanks for putting it all together again.

Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?

If you buy 2 weeks developer and 1 week resale, do you pay the SVN fee on the resale week (3rd week) because it wasn't "authorized?"
Yes - thank you Chris.

I thought that the SVN fee was covered in a thread a few weeks ago - the 1st 2 TSs have the initial fee (~$100), then a small supplemental fee (~$30), then no fee for more weeks - since these are mandatory resorts - the fee exists whether resale or not.. The thing about being authorized was for 'Gold' status. (in my understanding) I own 2 resale weeks and pay ~$130 - SVO/SVN authorization never came up.
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Old October 26, 2006, 03:40 PM   #8
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Much appreciated Chris.

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Old October 26, 2006, 05:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniselew
Does anyone know if Cancun and Kauai are both going to be mandatory resorts? Also, I'm assuming Westin Ka'anapali North is mandatory?
From what I have read Cancun is a voluntary property.

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Old October 26, 2006, 07:38 PM   #10
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I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory. Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement. I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department. Looks like they got their way with WKORVN. The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.
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Old October 26, 2006, 07:50 PM   #11
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Interesting, I would have thought WKORV-N would be mandatory

Quote:
Originally Posted by seenett
I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory. Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement. I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department. Looks like they got their way with WKORVN. The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.
So is this written in the owner documentation that WKORV-N is non-mandatory? Maybe an owner there can dig it up.

I find this information so interesting...I just assumed it would be the same as WKORV, as the prices are similar. What will this mean for resales at that resort if whoever spends $70K on an OF cannot sell the SOs go with it?! All the other resorts in that price range are mandatory.

And what of Kauai then?
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Old October 26, 2006, 09:13 PM   #12
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I can see why Starwood doesn't want to have manatory resort. -> people want to be in svn with resale has to buy another unit from developer to retr'd the resale units.
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Old October 27, 2006, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniselew
And what of Kauai then?

Princeville Kauai is Voluntary.
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Old October 27, 2006, 12:32 PM   #14
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Thanks Chris, great new information.
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Old October 27, 2006, 01:00 PM   #15
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Mandatory vs. Voluntary Issue

The whole mandatory vs. voluntary SVN resort distinction bothers me. On the one hand, no one should be forced to join a dues-paying club they don't intend to use (i.e., plan to use own resort rather than trade in SVN). On the other hand, if the number of club units decreases, this diminishes the value of SVN to other members.

Personally, I would like to see all Starwood resorts be SVN-voluntary, but with access for all owners who want to participate. Starwood could charge initial membership & a little higher renewal fees for resales. If the program is attractive enough (internal trade opportunity/priority without extra II trade fee), people will join and stay in and Starwood would have a good revenue stream.

First time developer buyers could still be induced with points incentives, lower membership fees for a period of time, etc. The point is to make the system valuable for both developer and buyer (first time or resale).
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Old October 27, 2006, 01:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seenett
I have been told by a reliable source that WKORVN is not mandatory. Things can change, so I am 80% confident in this statement. I'm not sure how the mandatory and non-mandatory categories started, but I have no doubt that it is a thorn in the side to the Sales Department. Looks like they got their way with WKORVN. The pendulum may swing the other way again someday, though.
Hi Chris -

I think, but not positive, that WKORV-N is actually a mandatory SVN resort. I believe that this is the case because that was a selling point that they used when I purchased (then rescinded when I found TUG) WKORV-N a year ago.
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Old October 27, 2006, 01:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniselew
So is this written in the owner documentation that WKORV-N is non-mandatory? Maybe an owner there can dig it up.

I find this information so interesting...I just assumed it would be the same as WKORV, as the prices are similar. What will this mean for resales at that resort if whoever spends $70K on an OF cannot sell the SOs go with it?! All the other resorts in that price range are mandatory.

And what of Kauai then?
I still have the WKORV-N documentation - so I can look it up - but as I just posted that a TS selling point was the ability to exchange into other SVN resorts and the list they gave me were other SVN mandatory.

Follow-up: I looked at the WKORV-N documentation - and from what I can tell WKORV-N behaves just like WKORV in that you can use your StarOptions to exchange into other SVN resorts in the SVN system. I do not see why WPORV (Princeville) would be any different - A big SVO TS selling point is the ability to exchange within the SVN system - watch out what a SVO TS salesman says...
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Last edited by DavidnRobin; October 27, 2006 at 02:27 PM.
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Old October 27, 2006, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malex2
The whole mandatory vs. voluntary SVN resort distinction bothers me. On the one hand, no one should be forced to join a dues-paying club they don't intend to use (i.e., plan to use own resort rather than trade in SVN). On the other hand, if the number of club units decreases, this diminishes the value of SVN to other members.

Personally, I would like to see all Starwood resorts be SVN-voluntary, but with access for all owners who want to participate. Starwood could charge initial membership & a little higher renewal fees for resales. If the program is attractive enough (internal trade opportunity/priority without extra II trade fee), people will join and stay in and Starwood would have a good revenue stream.

First time developer buyers could still be induced with points incentives, lower membership fees for a period of time, etc. The point is to make the system valuable for both developer and buyer (first time or resale).
I could not agree more.

The fact that as a buyer from the developer, you are can buy a resort which by the fact that it is a mandatory resort will be worth 3 -4 times more on resale, than a voluntary resort makes me upset. I sure that the Kauai or WKORV-N buyers don't know that their purchase is going to be much less valuable when they go to sell then if they had bought WKORV.

You'd would think that starwood would at least make all new resorts mandatory but all three of the new resorts will be voluntary. If not for "requalification" I couldn't ever recommend Starwood for any reason.
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Old October 27, 2006, 02:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill4728
I could not agree more.

The fact that as a buyer from the developer, you are can buy a resort which by the fact that it is a mandatory resort will be worth 3 -4 times more on resale, than a voluntary resort makes me upset. I sure that the Kauai or WKORV-N buyers don't know that their purchase is going to be much less valuable when they go to sell then if they had bought WKORV.

You'd would think that starwood would at least make all new resorts mandatory but all three of the new resorts will be voluntary. If not for "requalification" I couldn't ever recommend Starwood for any reason.
Check out my post above re: WKORV-N - I am not convinced that WPORV is not a mandatory resort.
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Old October 27, 2006, 05:21 PM   #20
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Still a mystery, but some things to ponder

I have been trying to find out about the WKORV-N and WPORV properties and what the SVN designation is. I have heard a couple of things, but nothing "official" yet. I think it will take some digging into the contracts at these two resorts to find the exact wording.

So far, I have heard that WKORV-N is mandatory and WPORV is voluntary. I have also heard that the Hawaii resorts should be mandatory because it is really determined by the State of Hawaii's real estate department and how it views timeshares, and apparently internal exchange rights and real estate rights cannot be separated in that State. This will also take some digging to find confirmation of that information, and so far my Internet surfing hasn't paid off.

Does anyone recall that when VV was built, how did resale buyers figure out that the Staroptions transferred with the sale? I remember reading that Kierland was voluntary way back when it was being built, but then I confirmed with a reliable source back then that it was indeed mandatory. That made for some exciting news on TUG at the time, and all the savvy buyers were (and still are) searching for Kierland deals.

Well, I am fairly certain that WKORV-N is mandatory, and WPORV may indeed have to be mandatory as well. I guess we'll keep digging !
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Old November 8, 2006, 02:02 AM   #21
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Princeville is a non-mandatory resort

The Purchase Agreement for the Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas (which I signed and rescinded) contains a paragraph 7, entitled "Starwood Vacation Network", which provides

" . . . . Membership and participation in SVN is entirely voluntary . . . . "

The Starwood Vacation Network Owner Membership Agreement for the property includes the following language:

16(a) "Owner's membership in SVN is voluntary",

16(h) "If Owner elects to sell the Vacation Ownership Interest(s) or otherwise elects not to participate in SVN, SVN Operator will not refund any payments or fees paid by Owner", and

16(n) "Owner acknowledges that his or her membership in SVN . . . cannot be transferred or assigned."

BTW, a two bedroom lockout at Princeville costs $47,500; MF's are $2,079 + $103 for the optional SVN membership fee.
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Old November 8, 2006, 07:07 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacationtime1
The Purchase Agreement for the Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas (which I signed and rescinded) contains a paragraph 7, entitled "Starwood Vacation Network", which provides

" . . . . Membership and participation in SVN is entirely voluntary . . . . "

The Starwood Vacation Network Owner Membership Agreement for the property includes the following language:

16(a) "Owner's membership in SVN is voluntary",

16(h) "If Owner elects to sell the Vacation Ownership Interest(s) or otherwise elects not to participate in SVN, SVN Operator will not refund any payments or fees paid by Owner", and

16(n) "Owner acknowledges that his or her membership in SVN . . . cannot be transferred or assigned."

BTW, a two bedroom lockout at Princeville costs $47,500; MF's are $2,079 + $103 for the optional SVN membership fee.
I am surprised by this. I can see Cancun being voluntary, but not the Princville Resort.
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Old November 8, 2006, 04:08 PM   #23
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I would be surprised if they continued to require mandatory participation in SVN at new resorts. Limiting resales to the resorts purchased makes developer purchased weeks (and the corresponding ability to trade within the SVN system) far more appealing.

If that were to become the case, I think that you'd see resale prices at existing mandatory resorts begin to climb.
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Old November 8, 2006, 05:49 PM   #24
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This is great news for existing VV resale owners. I believe there is a bargain for 81K staroptions on ebay right now!! I would keep quite about it, but with 30 timeshares I have about as many as I can handle. Ben
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Old November 8, 2006, 06:03 PM   #25
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I think it's good news for existing WKORV owners too. WKORV weeks should hold their resale value better than WKORVN. It will be interesting to see what happens when WKORVN resale weeks start hitting the market.
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