• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Recision In Progress...am I missing anything?

cobalt911

newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Hello all:

Just returned from Las Vegas where I stayed at the HGVC Flamingo on their VIP package which I purchased last year. I was required to attend a presentation, which I did, and I had every intention of saying no. Well, I wouldn't be writing this if I stuck to my guns. Here is what we got from HGVC

Home property...Flamingo HGVC
Annual Points....3400
Bonus Points.....8000 to be used over the next two years
Cost................$13900 minus the $1500 I payed for the VIP = $12,500

I signed the contract on Monday October 23rd. Today is Saturday, October 28. I decided this morning I would recind after reading posts here on TUGS. The way I calculate it, this is the 5th day and I didn't reach midnight, so the I figure I am still within the recision period.

Nevada Law states,

========
1. The purchaser of a time share may cancel, by written notice, the contract of sale until midnight of the fifth calendar day following the date of execution of the contract. The contract of sale must include a statement of this right.
...
3. The notice of cancellation may be delivered personally to the developer or sent by certified mail or telegram to the business address of the developer.
============

I believe I am within the time frame but #3 is the sticking point. I am home now so I can't deliver the recision personally. It was after the post office closed, and being a Saturday, I can't do anything with certified mail. That leaves me the "telegram" option. What is a telegram in todays world?

I found the following definition in another section of Nevada law so I am assuming that "telegram" means the same across the board, at least from the perspective of Nevada law....

As used in this section, “telegram” includes every method of electric or electronic communication by which a written as distinct from an oral message is transmitted.

Sounds like from the Nevada law perspective, a telegram is simply an email and/or fax.

So, I took the recision form and my wife and I both signed it. I then scanned and converted the form into a PDF file. I then found the business card of my HGVC "Quality Assurance Manager" which was part of my paperwork and which has the address of the HGVC office, the email, and the fax number.

I sent an email with the recision PDF attached. I sent this email to BOTH the Flamingo HGVC AND to the Nevada state Bureau Of Consumer Protection. I made it clear that I only did that so that an independent third party would have a record of the actual time that I attempted to recind. I also stated in the email that I would follow up with a FAX of the recision form. I then faxed to HGVC my recision.

Being a Saturday, that seems to be the best I could do. But reading another post here on TUG leads me to believe I should follow one more step. It stated...

NEVADA RULE 26. COMPUTATION AND EXTENSION OF TIME
(a) Computation of Time. In computing any period of time prescribed by these rules, by an order of court, or by any applicable statute, the day of the act, event, or default from which the designated period of time begins to run shall not be included. The last day of the period shall be included, unless it is a Saturday, Sunday or a nonjudicial day, in which event the period extends until the end of the next day which is not a Saturday, Sunday or a nonjudicial day. When the period of time prescribed or allowed is less than seven (7) days, intermediate Saturdays, Sundays and nonjudicial days shall be excluded in the computation.


So it seems that I still have Monday to actually get to the post office and send the form via "certified mail".

Can anyone see anything I may have missed or can do to ensure that my recision does not fail due to some loophole?

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Larry
Indiana
 

Dave M

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
12,242
Reaction score
12
Points
623
Location
Sun City Hilton Head, SC
I don't find the same info you did.

I find the cancellation statute that you quote. It's in NRS 119A.410.

I find nothing in that statute, nor in that entire Chapter 119A of the statutes which has the "in this section" definition of a telegram. If you can't find a direct relation between your quote and the statute, you'll need to follow the general definition of "telegram". There is some similar - but not identical - language in NRS. 82.321, but it doesn't apply to the timeshare cancellation section.

Similarly, I can find nothing in the Nevada Revised Statutes that allows you until Monday when the due date falls on a Saturday. The fact that your quote comes from a "Rule 26" suggests that it's related to Nevada court rules or rules of civil procedure, rather than that statute.

Thus, if you really want to cancel and be within the letter of the law, you have two choices: (1) Be sure your references are correct and applicable or (2) send a telegram.

Although Western Union no longer handles telegrams, there are some services that do. Here for example, is one of them. You have less than two hours to go....
 

Dave M

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
12,242
Reaction score
12
Points
623
Location
Sun City Hilton Head, SC
I found "Rule 26" containing your quote. It's in the Nevada Rules of Appellate Procedure and has nothing to do with the statute that is applicable to your cancellation. As stated in Rule 1 at the link,
These rules govern procedure in appeals to the Supreme Court of Nevada from the district courts of Nevada and in applications for writs or other relief which the Supreme Court or a justice thereof is competent to give.
There is nothing in those rules that suggests they apply to statutes applicable to timeshares.
 

cobalt911

newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Dave:

It's going to be interesting to see if HGVC takes the same "loophole" approach that you are taking.

Nevada law says I have til midnight 5 days after the contract is signed to give "written notice" of cancellation. Intent seems clear. It can be a high pressure situation and after a clearing of the mind and reading all the documents in full, some people may want out. Ergo, the five day recision statute.

In my case, I gave written notice to the club, within the statuatory timeframe, using the contact information that was provided to me in my documents.

I guess Hilton can say in every case, "yes, he let us know within the proper timeframe, but....."

1. It's not really "written" because he clearly typed it on a computer keyboard. Gotcha.

2. yes, he walked in to deliver it personally, but he didn't give it to the "developer", he gave it to an "employee of the developer". Gotcha.

3. Yes, he sent it certified mail, but we didn't receive it until after the 5 days, and the statute doesn't say anything about being "postmarked" on time. Gotcha.

4. or in my case, Yes, he sent both an email with attachment AND a fax, but it wasn't what WE consider a telegram. Gotcha.

Yes, I assume Hilton can do that...so I guess the real question is going to be whether they are they going to honor the intent of law, or try and find some legal loophole to force me to buy a product that I no longer feel is right for my situation.

I consider Hilton to be a class outfit, and they treated us fantastically while we were there. I honestly will be very surprised if they attempt to take the loophole route.

A far as the legal definition of "telegram", lets revisit the Nevada law wording...

The notice of cancellation may be delivered personally to the developer or sent by certified mail or telegram to the business address of the developer.

Merrium Webster says

telegram: a telegraphic dispatch
telegraphic: of or relating to the telegraph
telegraph: an apparatus for communication at a distance by coded signals; especially : an apparatus, system,or process for communication at a distance by electric transmission over wire

Couple that with a Nevada law clarification of telegram in another section that states...
“telegram” includes every method of electric or electronic communication by which a written as distinct from an oral message is transmitted.

I guess you could be right and the legislature may mean that a telegram is something I had to give to a third party business so they can send it via morse code and print it on yellow paper and deliver it...
or it may be nothing more than a simple FAX or email.

I guess we'll see. I'll post when I find out.

Larry
Indiana
 

Dave M

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
12,242
Reaction score
12
Points
623
Location
Sun City Hilton Head, SC
Larry -

You are really reaching! You are the one (not me) who has tried to find loopholes around the plain meaning of the statutes. For example, in trying to expand the normal definition of "telegram", you relied on a part of Nevada law that applies "as used in this section", which was unrelated to timeshare cancellations. There is no comparable wording that applies to the section on timeshares.

One of the stark facts about timeshare cancellations that we have found here over the years is that developers generally rely on the letter of the law and deny cancellation requests that don't fit exactly therein. Yours doesn't fit within the law without really reaching afar to create your "loopholes".

The other thread you found, where Marriott allowed a cancellation, even though the buyer hadn't met the legal requirements for cancellation, was an anomaly. Rarely have similar allowed cancellations been reported here.

I hope you are as lucky.
 

johnmfaeth

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,601
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Northeast PA
I do not think that posting a certified letter on the last day would count versus them receiving it.

I would definitely fax it to them also and then print and keep a copy of the fax machines transmission log.

FedEx does offer same day delivery (at very expensive rates). You should call them at 1-800-gofedex to see if they have an option that works.
 

johnmfaeth

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,601
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Northeast PA
AND make sure there is an "accepted by" and "date" signature block on the bottom of the recision letter and insist that the immediately sign and fax + MAIL and copy back to you on Monday.
 

cobalt911

newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I think it is pretty clear that I have complied with the "spirit" of the law. I have notified HGVC of my intent to recind within the statuatory time frame as required by Nevada law. HGVC had the signed recision documents in their office on day 5.

The only question is whether it really matters how the documents got there.

I find that this will be a very interesting decision by both HGVC, and perhaps an opinion from the Nevada Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection should HGVC not allow the recision, as I will most likely ask for their help in the matter.

Finally, if worst comes to worst, and both opinions go against me, I'll simply pay off the timeshare (albeit overpriced) and enjoy my family vacations every year for the rest of my life. The Hilton Properties are fantastic!

Larry
Indiana
 

eal

TUG Review Crew: ELITE
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,912
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Nanoose Bay Canada
That's a great attitude to have. Most of us bought our first timeshare from the developer at inflated prices. But we have all learned to enjoy what we bought and to make up for our first purchase with many resale purchases and rentals.

You will enjoy your unit no matter what.
 

cobalt911

newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
1
For those who may have been following this thread, here is the response I received from the HGVC as to my recision request that was emailed and faxed late Saturday evening, which happened to be the last day I was able to recind.

Note:
1. Not delivered personally
2. Not sent certified mail.
3. Not sent via "telegram" (whatever that may be in todays world)

Everything has been received. The “telegram” bit must be updated!! Who uses telegrams anymore!! I have submitted everything,and by all standards it should be fine. You will receive a creditback on the Credit Card from Chicago Title Escrow office for the original and total amount charged. And subsequently all the docs will be shredded as well.

I really have to give big time kudo's to the HGVC as they really were a class act from the beginning to the end. I did receive a phone call from the developer today and was asked "why" I wanted to recind. I told him it was purely for financial reasons and there was no pressure or negative comments at all.

I think the HGVC properties are great, and someday yet, I may still own an HGVC timeshare. The time is not quite right.
 

Pronkster

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
204
Reaction score
0
Points
16
I'm glad all turned out well for you. It sounds like you got in right under the wire. I hope you do purchase HGVC someday, resale of course, it is a great system. I've had nothing but good experiences in the two years I've owned HGVC.
 
Top