Jet Blue airline stuck on runway

[cmdmfr]

WASHINGTON - After being stuck for 11 hours on a parked airplane during a snow and ice storm, JetBlue passengers found out there's nothing they can do about it. There are no government regulations limiting the time an airline can keep passengers on grounded aircraft.

The airlines' voluntary code of conduct simply says that during such extraordinary delays, they will make "reasonable efforts" to meet passenger needs for food, water, restroom facilities and medical assistance.

Airlines have blocked attempts to set minimum legal standards for customer service by agreeing to a voluntary code of conduct that they have not always followed.

On Wednesday, hundreds of JetBlue passengers were stuck for as long as 11 hours in parked jets at John F. Kennedy International Airport during the winter storm.

Sean Corrinet of Salem, Mass., spent almost nine hours aboard a JetBlue flight for Cancun, Mexico, that never got off the ground.

"It was like _ what's the name of that prison in Vietnam where they held McCain? The Hanoi Hilton," Corrinet said, referring to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

He said the crew passed out bags of chips _ the only food available _ and periodically cracked the hatch to let in fresh, cool air.

The airline acknowledged that it hesitated nearly five hours before calling for a fleet of buses to unload at least seven jets that spent the day sitting on runways because of the weather and congestion at the gates.

A similar incident happened on Dec. 30, when American Airlines and American Eagle diverted 121 flights found for Dallas to other cities because of thunderstorms. About 5,000 passengers were left sitting on parked aircraft, some for eight hours.

The Dec. 30 incidents prompted American to say it would put a four-hour limit on how long passengers would be kept on grounded planes.

In the late 1990s, the nation's 14 largest airlines joined forces to block a drive by Congress to enact legal protections for passengers, changes that were sought after a series of flight cancellations and delays.

Instead, the airlines agreed to an Airline Customer Service Commitment and incorporated it in their customer agreements, called "conditions of carriage," which are legally enforceable by the customer against the airline.

The airlines said they would notify customers of delays and diversions, try to deliver baggage on time, refund tickets promptly and meet customers' essential needs when they were stuck on parked airplanes.

The airlines, though, didn't agree to limit the amount of time they could keep people inside airplanes that aren't going anywhere.

By February 2001, the airlines were improving their customer service, according to a review by the Transportation Department's inspector general.

A short time later, the airline industry lost record amounts of money. Some sought bankruptcy protection following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, epidemic, the war in Iraq and rising fuel prices.

By November 2006, customer service had slipped at many airlines, according to Transportation Department Inspector General Calvin Scovell. Many airlines dropped their programs to control quality and measure performance, Scovell reported.

Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., chairman of the House Transportation Committee, blamed the Transportation Department for failing to enforce the customer service standards agreed to in 1999.

In the case of JetBlue, Oberstar said the airline didn't have a plan to manage an extreme circumstance.

"The airline can't say, 'We didn't know, we didn't anticipate, this didn't happen before,'" Oberstar said.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Thursday she will introduce a bill to give passengers the right to get off the airplane if it's been on the ground for more than three hours past its scheduled departure time

[mattman27]

Sean Corrinet of Salem, Mass., spent almost nine hours aboard a JetBlue flight for Cancun, Mexico, that never got off the ground.

"It was like _ what's the name of that prison in Vietnam where they held McCain? The Hanoi Hilton," Corrinet said, referring to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.


OK. As an officer in the Air Force that Sean Corrinet should be embarrassed. Give me a break. I'm sure being a POW was much worse than spending some time on an airplane ON YOUR WAY TO CANCUN!!!! Come on! I don't think they gave out chips in Vietnam.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ricoba]

I agree that comparing being stuck on the plane was not the Hanoi Hilton, but it sure had to be dang miserable on board.

[cluemeister]

The press loves beating up on the airline industry. Ever since Reagan deregulated it in the 80's, they have done endless reports on lost luggage, delayed flights, and passenger maltreatment.

I rarely see a report on the rarity of airline crashes. Does anyone remember the last time a US carrier had a large plane crash?

I would love to see a news report on tv showing how cheap, safe flights have revolutionized American's travel enjoyment.

[silverfox82]

FYI airline deregulation was enacted in 1978 by the Carter administration. And yes, I do remember the last time a large plane crashed, 2 in fact. As of last year there were only 2 us carriers that didn't lose money, southwest and jet blue, both (supposedly) LCC's. 11 hours stuck on an airplane is unacceptable when there were options to get them off, which there were. Watch the lawsuits start flying (pun intended). As a whole the us airline industry is a mess partially because it is self regulated. According to an article in a news magazine more than 50% of maintenence work is outsourced to other countries with the work being performed by unlicensed mechanics. And no, I am not a disgruntled airline employee, just a fellow traveler who remembers the days when flying was not such a chore.

[Pat H]

I know that had to be miserable especially for kids but I think this would have been worse - 20+ hours stuck on RT. 78 in PA.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...l=all-news-hed
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...,7592961.story

[Neesie]

I remember a similar incident, a Northwest plane stuck on the runway in Detroit about 10 years ago (forget how many hours). I always think about that when I pack my carry on. I have since developed diabetes so I take a fair amount of snacks. Now that the 'gel' rules have come in to effect, it has more than complicated things.

I don't think it would hurt for anyone to pack a few snacks. I also take a trip to the restroom shortly before boarding. One thing they mentioned was the terrible stench from the airplanes toilets.

[Carol C]

Smokers on board must have been climbing the walls!

[Keitht]

They aren't the only airline with unhappy customers at the moment. American Airlines have effectively dumped passengers bound for the UK at one New York airport (JFK I think). Passengers who were due to fly out on Thursday have been told they won't travel until Monday at the earliest. The passengers claim they have had no support from AA at all. No attempt to find them accommodation, no food vouchers, nada.

[cmdmfr]

Keith I am sure that Jet Blue and American are not the only ones that had problems. I am sure that the air lines canceled flights for safety reasons. Also with air lines flying fewer flights now and more people booking it is harder to accommodate the passengers when there is a cancellation Just like all airlines it all about money not customer service.

[Icarus]

Jet Blue is experiencing severe growing pains at its JFK hub. They are in the process of rebuilding the old landmark TWA terminal to be used to replace it's overrused terminal next door.

I'm sure what happened is that there were no gates available for those planes, and it took some highly skilled professional 10 hours to figure out a plan to offload the customers that were going nowhere, since they had no plan for a severe weather event that could ground the planes all day.

Whenever I fly into JFK on a UA red eye flight, I'm amazed at how many planes Jet Blue has parked overnight on the tarmac near their terminal.

At least they will certainly have a plan in place for the next time this happens.

-David

[Keitht]

Originally Posted by cmdmfr

Keith I am sure that Jet Blue and American are not the only ones that had problems. Just like all airlines it all about money not customer service.

Regrettably true on both counts. Unfortunately for the airlines there are rules about what they do have to do for their passengers and it seems from reports that AA have failed in this instance. They can't provide accommodation if there is none available, but they do have a duty to provide food and drink.
On the wider subject of customer service versus money, it really does seem to be no contest. The latest example I have heard was British Airways who cut both the number of bags and the total weight limits. The cuts were announced just a couple of weeks before they came into effect so people could fly out with one weight limit and then be hit for excess baggage on the return flight. That on top of the chaos with the strikes BA have suffered, and are apparently about to suffer more of, doesn't seem like intelligent customer relations to me.
The problem is with the world of commerce now being run by the bean counters. All they care about is this year's bottom line and not the longer term impact.

[cluemeister]

I stand corrected on the deregulation act. It was Jimmy Carter. Reagan fired the air traffic controllers.

The point remains that deregulation has been very good for the industry. When you're moving millions of people in the air a day, problems are going to happen.

I wouldn't have wanted to be one of the people in that plane for 11 hours, but overall the safety record and quality of service for the money is pretty good.

Now if Southwest would adopt some of Jetblue's ideas, then I would be really happy.

[geoffb]

Hopefully JetBlue has learned a valuable lesson about cancelling flights in advance of poor weather and pre-positioning personnel and equipment to be able to start operations again as soon as possible.

But they are at a disadvantage because of their size and the geography of their routes and hubs.

[PerryM]

I pity the passengers on the JetBlue jet – I know that they want to lash out, folks caught in similar situations want to lash out; it’s only natural. However, what will be presented as the Answer, the federal government coming to the rescue, will, of course, just make the situation worse.

The simple solution is to not fly JetBlue – problem solved. If folks want to band together, take up a collection, and start some consumer actions – that’s fine.

Just don’t think that making the Government bigger, or interfering in the free flow of commerce is somehow going to make this better – you all know that Government is the problem and not the solution.

The freer we are to conduct business the better off we are in the long run. Now I’m not talking about criminal acts – none were done in this situation. This is just airline stupidity – most of the airline carriers seem to be inflicted with it.

[pcgirl54]

I didn't even know this was allowed. I don't know how I would have handled being trapped 11hrs. At least if the passengers were let into the terminal they could have walked around and used the facilities and been able to eat more than a bag of chips. This is scary.

[Aldo]

I have HEARD, don't know if it's true, that at some major airports, specifically Philadelphia, that the runway cleaning crew, which was formerly a unionized part of the airport staff, has been replaced by non-union contractors who don't know their job and that consequently ice and snow removal is a much more problemmatic issue.

[cluemeister]

Bravo Perry!

When I see politicians start talking about the "Passengers bill of rights", I know that more government interference that is intended to "protect me" is coming.

Millions of passengers fly every day in the US. This situation was unfortunate. It does not rise to the level of getting Congress involved.

As Perry suggested, if you're mad at Jetblue, don't fly Jetblue. I'm booked for Vegas in April on Jetblue, and I'm looking forward to more legroom and DirecTV for the 6 hour flight.

[Icarus]

The only reason a passenger bill or rights got brought up in the past was because airlines did stuff like this regularly. It got dropped when the airlines promised to self-regulate and make sure they wouldn't keep passengers trapped in a metal tube for hours and hours. The airlines put in place a number of customer service initiatives that have since fallen to the budget axe, and here we go again.

Do you think it should be permissible for an airline to keep their passengers grounded and locked in a cabin for more than 4 hours? Even though they knew that the planes were going nowhere, they still were ordered to push back from the gates to make room for other flights that weren't going anywhere either. One of the articles stated that an inbound flight sat on the tarmac for 5 hours before it could reach a gate.

Government should step in when an industry fails to self-regulate and fails to provide at least some remedies when they don't meet their own standards. If the airline industry did that, I'd agree with you, but they've failed to do it over and over again. And at least in this case, Jet Blue proved that their own bottom line trumped common decency and standards, and that they had no standards in this area. And even if they did, their failure to meet their own standards didn't hurt them anymore than the weather did.

-David

[PerryM]

Originally Posted by Icarus

...

Government should step in when an industry fails to self-regulate and fails to provide at least some remedies when they don't meet their own standards.
....

-David

David, what you describe is theoretical, unfortunately.

If congress does get involved, I can assure everyone here that it will really be an “Airline Bill of Rights”.

All our politicians are jetting around all the time – many/most folks mooch rides from corporations since flying is such a drudge anymore. The airlines have plenty of empty G5 type corporate jets waiting to whisk our politician and family anywhere they want for free.

Nope, the only legislation congress will impose on us will just harm us and help the airlines – count on it. I know my sleazy politicians won’t disappoint me in this critical matter.

[johnmfaeth]

The latest from JetBlue is that they have initiated a "system reset" where everything will start from scratch with a 100% load on Monday AM.

I landed at Newark Friday night from St. Thomas (on Continental - my favorite). First time in my 200+ flights to/from Newark that the taxiways were still crusted in ice and snow the evening after it stopped "snowing". The plane felt like we were taxing cross country with the incredible bumps. The entire NY area was clobbered by this icy mix that was just not plowable. I had a 4" layer of frozen ice/snow at home that had to be broken into chunks with a pitchfork and then shovelled away in chunks. The cold temps also made salting unproductive.

Not defending JetBlue, clearly a management disaster caused by not cancelling flights that were not going to get out anyway.

But as a mutiple timeshare owner, I have found that when JetBlue, Spirit, or AirTran add a destination, the big guys reduce their prices significantly to compete. That I love, so I am personally against any JetBlue boycott.

I imagine (hope?) they learned a valuable lesson. They are normally a well managed, very customer focused airline.

John

[johnmfaeth]

Perry,

I agree that some regulations can be too much and many are "corrupted" by special interests which "buy" both parties.

However...

"If all men were angels, we would need no government" - Ben Franklin

And today's corporations look more like hungry pigs than angels IMHO.

John

[geoffb]

There are indicents like this every year involving many airlines, only the most extreme cases get reported.

The airline industry has a choice, they can mutually agree on some standards that resolve the issue of flights that get stranded on the taxiway for hours on end or they can do nothing and have the government force some random and impractical set of guidelines on them.

[PerryM]

Beyond providing for a common defense, in terms of enemies external and internal the Federal and State governments would not be recognized by our Founding Fathers.

I don’t think that Ben would recognize paying money to framers to NOT grow a crop, or tariffs imposed upon sugar which result in that pound of sugar at the store costing 2 – 3 times as much as it does in Canada; THE reason why the US candy manufactures move to Canada.

Looking for Big Brother to solve the kinds of problems that are easily solved by just not buying a product/service from a company is to ask for the quagmire we now have in our country.

Costs about $150 to keep TUG going for a full year – I’m sure one of those folks trapped on that JetBlue would easily pay that to seek revenge – that is the correct solution, not Big Brother. Consumers already have the solution.

[Icarus]

Perry .. no problem. I respect the liberterian view too and I understand your point of view, which is equally valid as anybody elses point of view. I don't think I wake up in the morning thinking how better my world would be if only there were more government regulation.

Sometimes though, self-regulation just doesn't work. Even in this thread, somebody told us how they were oposed to government regulation but were looking forward to their future Jetblue flight.

The industry does a pretty decent job of self-regulation for bumped passengers, and they have rules and compensation rules for lost/missing luggage. Actually, I don't think those rules are based on self-regulation either, they are regulations they are all required to follow. In the areas where things were voluntary, such as providing accommodations for weather related events, most, if not all airlines have dropped those benefits.

They just have no standards/rules/regulations about how long a passenger can be locked in a metal tube on the ground. They had a chance (well, really several chances) to address it and they didn't.

Frankly, I agree with you that it would be much better if the industry solved this problem on their own, with some measurable standards/rules that they impose on themselves, which includes compensation when they fail to follow their own rules, so in the event they don't follow their own rules, it hurts their bottom line.

-David