Westgate purchase my unit back (ROFR) - documents require 2 witnesses and notary?

Westgate has sent me documents, offering to purchase the unit from me (after excercising is right of first refusal, after I had agreed to the sale of my unit to a timeshare resale company).

Westgate states that the documents require my wife and my signature, at these signatures need to be notarized. No issues, so far.

But they require also that there be 2 witnesses at the time of the signatures, so that the witnesses' signatures be also notarized.

In Canada, most documents requiring signatures require either the presence of witnesses, or that of the notary, but not both?

Westgate told me that Florida law requires the signatures of both the 2 witnesses, as well as of the notary. Is that right? Do other US states also have the same regulations?

Get out the hoops - Wetsgate is coming

It's not uncommon, but not law in any place I'm aware of - doesn't mean it couldn't be, to have witnesses as well as a notarized signature on some documents. But when you look at the source for this you can be sure it's just more hoops they've dreamed up for you to jump through and for them to find fault with (read hold up or cancel the whole transaction). There aren't adequate derogatory terms to describe King David and his Weasel troops.

Hi,

This is from the Osceola County Florida Recorder of Deed's Website:
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3. What are the recording requirements for deeds?

PER FLORIDA STATUTES:

The signature of the grantor(s) must be notarized with the name and address printed below each signature. The notary's name must also be printed.


A department of revenue return for interest form (DR219) is needed when recording a deed.


Two individual witnesses subscribing to the grantor(s) signature. Witness names must be printed below their signatures.


Complete legal description must appear on the deed.


Mailing address of the grantee and preparer's name and address must appear on the face of the deed.


The Recording department does not carry blank forms. These may be obtained through an office supply store, and attorney or a title company.
----------------------------------

If the deed does not have the above they will reject it. The same requirements apply to contracts, affadavits, or anything else needing to be notarized.


John Faeth

PS. Now, what is the purpose of Notaries and Witnesses? In the event of litigation, a document which follows the above rules is accepted by the court as actually signed by the person who executed it. If it is not notarized/witnessed, the other party has the burden of proving that you really signed it. It simply makes it much easier to introduce a document as evidence on a court case.

The Westgate rep states that the 2 witnesses signatures also need to be notarized? Is that correct?

Hi Seema,

Actually, yes and no, that is not correct as a requirement for the Florida court system, but may be elsewhere.Some states, California in particular will have the first witness notarized with a statement in that notarization block that the first witness affirms that they saw the second witness also sign. Those are state specific requirements that Florida does NOT have. However, they may be included to meet jurisdictional requirements where the owner lives for notarizations. This is in case the owner files litigation in the courts of his home state, vs. Florida in this instance.

Looking from the outside in, Canada has but 10 provinces and often more uniform "federalist" approach to it's laws. Here we have 50 legislatures making laws of property rights and recordings as the right to make these laws are strictly reserved as a right of each state under the US Constitution. The clause that says all powers not given to the federal government are reserved by the states. So unlike almost anywhere else on Earth, we sometimes operate as 50 different countriescalled "states" (see the dictionary definition) combined in a "Union of States". This is our legacy after 80 years of states rights versus federalism when we started. Being "loyalists" until 1867 saved Canada from an overabundance of politicians and lawyers through more efficient "federalism" - NOTE: this is not an opinion on the merits of State's rights vs. Federalism, just an observation of fact.

John Faeth

PS. And for fun we have Louisiana who follows French Common Law as it's basis not English Common Law. No slight on it's wonderful residents. But that one is Canada's fault and the legacy of driving the French from Nova Scotia way back when....so we're even

I think that's a given. The notary will watch you sign and then attest to seeing you do it. The two witnesses will also be watching you sign and then attesting that they did. Thus, everyone will be there at the same time.

John's quoted language makes it clear the both the notary and the witnesses are required.

Florida requires 2 witnesses on any instrument transferring property and the notary can be one of the two. Make sure the witnesses print their name below their signature line. The notary does not "Notarize" the witness since only you and your wife's names will be in the notary certificate, but it stands to reason that everyone will be in the same room all signing at the same time.

As for your questions regarding other states, only 6 or 7 states still have the witness requirements and and I think there is only one state that does not allow the notary to be one of them. Florida is an odd one because they require witnesses on Deeds, but not on Mortgages. Most states either want it on both instruments or neither.

Joan-OH

Hi Joan,

I was referring to California where there is a second notary block for the notary to "witness" the first witness and also "witness" that the first witness affirms that they saw the second witness do their "thing"

Convoluted? Try saying it 5 times quickly.

John

PS. Add the USVI to your list of "witness" states.

Really? I always thought the second Notary block was in case there was a split signing - one person signing, then forwarding it on for the second signature. Must be a CA thing.

Joan-OH

Hi Joan,

Was a little unclear, the first notary block is your standard "Acknowledgement" that the Notary saw the seller(s) execute the deed.

The second is called a "Proof of Execution by a Subscribing Witness" and is worded quite differently than a standard Acknowledgement.

If you follow this link it will bring you to the state of California Notary Handbook. Look at page 14. That may be included in the ROFR to permit legal execution by California residents who execute the document in their home state.

http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_hdbk.pdf

John Faeth

PS. And you are very correct in that many instruments include one notary block per signer so that they do not need to appear together in front of the same notary. In that case, the wording of each notary bliock is identical other than the signer's name.

seema said:

Westgate has sent me documents, offering to purchase the unit from me....but they require also that there be 2 witnesses at the time of the signatures, so that the witnesses' signatures be also notarized.

Click to expand...

If you want to sell the Week, do what they ask. They are not going to vary there requirements. I assume that if both the notary and the witnesses witness your signature they will all be in the same room at the same time. So the notary has to sign and stamp 2 additional times. So what?

GEORGE