Surprising II Trade Availability Into WKORV

I was just poking around on the II Exchange website and, using my Westin Kierland Platinum 1-bedroom Deluxe Unit, I was able to bring up a surprising amount of availability at WKORV.

...including 2-bedroom units!

...including Memorial Day week!

The list for WKORV was showing studios, 1 bedrooms and a few 2 bedroom units for dates in April and May 2008. Usually when I search II, I rarely see anything available in Hawaii. Obviously I could never get even the 1-bedroom unit at WKORV with my Kierland trade via SVN.

On a semi-related question, for those that have traded via the II website, how do you choose next year's unit to trade/deposit? On the website, my only choice for trading was my Kierland unit for 2007, which I already used (at WKORV via SVN trade). Is there any way now to select my 2008 unit?

If you have booked your 2008 week & have a confirmation number you can use that to book an exchange online I think. I own Sheraton managed resorts that are NOT in the network & can also see that Westin spacebank in Maui. You are seeing them because you have a 3 day Sheraton/Westin advantage. Other timeshares can't see them yet. If I wanted to trade for one of those April/May weeks all I do is hit the exchange button next to my 2008 week & pay my exchange fee. But I'm already booked up for spring & can't go to Maui.

So when you bring up your unit online to exchange, you're seeing 2008? Mine shows my Kierland unit for 2007 only as available for exchange.

Need a reservation

BradC.

You must first have a reservation to deposit with Interval.
Simply make a 2008 reservation at Kierland. When confirmed, use it to execute a trade.

Fredm

Why the Surprise?

Starwood owners can get so wrapped up in viability of StarOptions, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that they are only good for trades to the inventory surrendered for StarOption trades from other Starwood resorts.
Lets face it. Starwood has some great properties, but they are limited in number and locations. The tens of thousands of owners who decide to go to the other 2200 resorts, do so by trading via I.I. Those deposits are not available via SVN.

Yes, Starwood does bulk bank weeks. And, yes, they do so with low season weeks from any resort, to cover owner I I trade requests. But, most owners know that, and circumvent the system by reserving at their home resort and directly depositing the confirmed week with I.I., so their monster trade is not diluted by Starwood bulk bank practices. Heck, I.I. even gives the owner an AC for the deposit.
Also, do not overlook deposits make directly with SFX and other boutique exchange companies.

Of course, this leads to the circular discussion about mandatory and voluntary resorts. Princeville is a Voluntary resort. Resales are just appearing in the marketplace. These resale buyers will deposit their trades directly with I.I. So, no question that this inventory will be available via I.I. and other exchange companies only, unless Starwood truly makes SVN membership truly "voluntary" at the secondary buyers sole discretion.

All of which brings the discussion to the interesting possibility that Starwood may do just that. When faced with losing the control of inventory, plus losing the enrollment and ongoing SVN membership fees, is the plan to categorize all new resorts as "voluntary", another way of insuring that they capture enrollment fees on voluntary resales? If the resort were categorized as "mandatory", no enrollment fee is required. It is automatic, without enrollment.

Fredm

BradC said:

I was just poking around on the II Exchange website and, using my Westin Kierland Platinum 1-bedroom Deluxe Unit, I was able to bring up a surprising amount of availability at WKORV.

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Wow! Thanks for posting this. I just confirmed a WKORV 1 bedroom for May 10th in exchange of my SUMMER (silver) 1-bed at WMH. This may be the best value trade I've done yet with my WMH!

Fredm said:

Starwood owners can get so wrapped up in viability of StarOptions, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that they are only good for trades to the inventory surrendered for StarOption trades from other Starwood resorts.
....
Yes, Starwood does bulk bank weeks. And, yes, they do so with low season weeks from any resort, to cover owner I I trade requests. But, most owners know that, and circumvent the system by reserving at their home resort and directly depositing the confirmed week with I.I., so their monster trade is not diluted by Starwood bulk bank practices. Heck, I.I. even gives the owner an AC for the deposit.

Fredm

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Are you sure about the above points as there have been many threads which discussed these issues and which came to opposite conclusions.

1. At 8 months, aren't all unreserved units open for SO trades? There was a long thread which discussed how unfair this is to resale buyers of Voluntary resorts.

2. Many complaints about how Westin units tend NOT to get ACs when deposited with II. Also, it's not clear that reserving a specific week gets around Starwood's ability to give II whatever week/resort they want.

divenski.

My conclusions regarding SVN membership and voluntary resorts are simply my opinion. It is based on my belief that Starwood will not forgo the potential revenue stream. It flies in the face of today's reality, I know.

Regarding deposits to I.I., or other exchange services, Starwood has no say in the matter when the owner is a resale buyer of a voluntary resort today. Which is partially the rationale for my reasoning above.

When an SVN member deposits directly to an external exchange, circumventing SVN, they are technically in violation of SVN member rules, which state in part that the member may not hold an independent membership in an external exchange for the purpose of exchanging their ownership interest. Nonetheless, it is done every day.

The 8 month exchange window is for SVN members who wish to exchange internally using StarOptions. They may only trade into inventory available via SVN. That is precisely my point. Inventory not surrendered to SVN is not available exclusively to other owners.

Consider the OP's statement. They found WKORV inventory available for Memorial Day 2008, in I.I. The owner who reserved that week could not have done so earlier than Memorial Day 2007. If surrendered to SVN, it would not be available to other SVN owners until September 2007 ( the 8 month window). If the owner did not directly deposit it to I.I. , how did it get there? Starwood did not deposit it. If they did, I think some SVN members would have a few words about that.
Irrespective of what else may have been said on this subject, I would tend to believe my eyes.

Besides, it is not as if this is a rare or unusual occurrence. Others will attest that they directly deposit their reserved weeks to external exchanges, including SFX.
Which brings me full circle back to my premise that secondary market buyers of Voluntary resorts will, sooner or later, be able to voluntarily join SVN (for an enrollment fee).If they cannot, Starwood risks losing control of the available inventory for internal exchanges. Not only do they forgo the revenue stream, it weakens the internal trade proposition that is so highly touted.

Just my opinion.

Fredm.

Does anyone have a currently deposited SDO week with II that can see if there is still avail for a May 24th or May 25th that SDO would pull for a trade. I have Superbowl weeks booked with my 2 bdrm and 1 bdrm for my 2008 weeks... of course I can't verify that I can pull the WKORV thru II unless I cancel one of the SuperBowl reservations... as a matter of fact Starwood wouldn't even let me drop the smaller 1/2 of the lockoff at SDO without cancelling the whole reservation... now tell me that makes sense??

So I am willing to give up a small side or large side SDO SuperBowl reservation for a large 1 bedroom at WKORV but Starwood is unable to help me make the reservation... I really want a 2 bdrm thru II for my 2 bdrm SDO... but there is no guarantee if I cancel that I will be able to pull the week thru II.... very disappointing.

Originally Posted by Fredm
Regarding deposits to I.I., or other exchange services, Starwood has no say in the matter when the owner is a resale buyer of a voluntary resort today. Which is partially the rationale for my reasoning above.

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Before I became a member of SVN, I purchased a fixed week at Vistana Resort resale. When I called RCI to deposit my week, I was told I MUST contact Vistana Resort BEFORE I contact RCI.

I'm not sure the in's and out's of this procedure, but sounds like the resort has some control over deposits.

.

Courts said:

Before I became a member of SVN, I purchased a fixed week at Vistana Resort resale. When I called RCI to deposit my week, I was told I MUST contact Vistana Resort BEFORE I contact RCI.

I'm not sure the in's and out's of this procedure, but sounds like the resort has some control over deposits.

.

Click to expand...

I do not know about RCI and the acquired Vistana resorts. When you contacted SDO were you told you could not deposit it, even though you were not an SVN member at the time?

If you were a Mission Hills resale buyer, you would have been able to directly deposit with I.I. You must have an independent I.I. account,which you must because you would not have a subsidiary I.I. account through SVN.

Just curious, did Ken555 deposit and trade his MH silver for WKORV directly?

Fred --

With II, you are required to deposit all resorts (voluntary and mandatory) through Starwood. They bulk bank (e.g., the large April/May posting for Maui on the Sightings board) and then assign owners previously deposited weeks when they call to deposit. For example, I originally planned to use my PGA week last year. When things didn't work out, I called to deposit it rather late in the year (fall, I think). They assigned me a March 2006 week that had great trading power (Spring Training), which was completely luck of the draw. This year, I had a good, but not great, summer one-BR week booked at Broadway Plantation. When I couldn't use it, I called to deposit it and they assigned me a fall week with poor trading power (it can only see the Maui studios, not the "equivalent" one-BR red for one-BR red that a summer week would be able to see).

They do this to save the best weeks for owners who wish to use the week (e.g., my cancellation of a summer week opened up a previously sold out week for an owner to use). That's good for those who wish to use, but not for those who wish to trade. I have mixed feelings about the practice, but tend to fall on the side of "all owners are equal" and have the same right to "book and deposit" as to "book and use." I haven't decided yet if it ticks me off enough to file a formal complaint!

Bottom line: Starwood owners are not in control of their deposits with II.

- Jerseygirl

Jerseygirl,

Were you an SVN member of a Voluntary resort, or did you buy it resale?

Resale.

I think all are treated equally for deposit purposes, with one possible exception. I have never seen a report of Starwood depositing an alternate resort for a resale/voluntary owner, but there have been many reports of this happening to SVN members. Actually, there may have been one report once at the very end of a calendar year. But, if I remember correctly, Starwood was doing the person a favor by assigning them "something" as there were no remaining available weeks for deposit at their owned resort. That's the other benefit of Starwood's practice (in addition to saving the best weeks for owner usage) ... an owner can call on 12/31 and probably still get one of the unassigned bulk deposit weeks. Hence, my indecision about whether to make an issue out of it. I'm pretty sure my Broadway Plantation deeds/CCRs (created by Embassy before Starwood bought the resort) do not give Starwood the right to deposit anything other than Broadway Plantation. I'm also pretty sure they contain the right to book and deposit a week (as opposed to being assigned one) as well. Starwood plays fast and loose with the rules where resale owners, who never signed a SVN agreement, are concerned. One of these days, someone is going to call them on it ...

Right. An SVN member is subject to SVN member rules. Although, there have been reports that directly depositing reservations with SFX are a common practice among those owners who choose to do so.

I return to the sightings of WKORV Memorial week availability. It is hard to believe this a result of Starwood bulk depositing these weeks before the 8 month window in the belief that WKORV owners themselves and SVN members would not create sufficient demand. The only other explanation is that the owner did so directly.
Although I suppose it is possible that Starwood must contractually seed I.I.s system with some number of weeks, per resort.

However, resale buyers of voluntary resorts having to submit their reservation to Starwood for an I.I. deposit to their personal and independent I,.I. account flies in the face of all reports from those owners to me.

There must be some fast and loose administration of this process if your experience is otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that was a bulk banking -- it was way too "perfect" for it to be owner weeks (studio, one-br, 2-BR ... week after week). Last year, Starwood did some pretty extensive advertising of "unprecedented availability" at Ka'anapali during the post spring break weeks. They were offering them at significantly discounted rates to owners and loyalty club members.

They did the same thing earlier this year with January weeks -- deposited them well before the 8-month mark. They claim they use past history to forecast excess availablity. then deposit those weeks early and assign them to depositing owners who then get the benefit of an early deposit (along with the detremental pink week that comes along with not being allowed to choose your own week for deposit, but I doubt that's as big as a problem with Maui as it is with a truly seasonal resort like Broadway Plantation).

I would love to get more details about your clients depositing their own floating weeks with II. I've heard that's possilbe with your deeded week at Broadway Plantation ... if you push, pull out the rule book, etc. Unfortunately, my deeded week on my one-BR unit is no better than the crummy fall week they assigned me, so I didn't have that argument to fall back on. In the past, the phone reps could do the deposit while you were on the phone, giving you the opportunity to discuss the available weeks, pick a good one, etc. This year, they tell me the "exchange" reps work in a separate department and you can't talk to them. You have to make a request -- it took over a week for the crummy week to show up in Interval the last time I did it (vs. instantly in the past). One more way for Starwood to screw owners ....

i have never used II before and i am so confused, if I deposit week 35 1 br at SDO(floating) how do I know what i can trade for?

I have to agree with Fred that it is likely that SVN will change it's policy regarding letting resale buyers of Voluntary resorts into SVN at some point. Besides they already have a fee ($599) in place for doing so that could easily have V resale owners added at some point.

As to the comment that SVO owners get wrapped up in the viability of SOs - ??? We are quite happy with using our Home resorts or potentially exchanging via SVN - no getting wrapped up here - we went in knowing we would be very happy using the resorts in the SVO/SVN system for years and years to come - the system works great for us (and I am sure many-many others) and is the reason we bought into it.

As to the comment that WPORV resales units are entering the market (I am unclear why WPORV was used as an example here...) - in a search (RedWeek, eBay, TUG, Transaction Realty, Fred's site, vpresale, BidShares, Google, etc) - I found only 3 resales even listed - two had misinformation and two were $10K over the price SVO is selling (good luck with that).

As stated before - I think WPORV could buck the V trend due to limitation of 179 units in a pristine and unique location, but I have accounted for a $10K loss on our purchase as a reality check. We are alreay looking forward to our 2009 visit.

I know little about II - and the more I read - the more confused I get. We never planned to use II in going into our resales and SVO purchase, but since we are members - I guess it wouldn't hurt to try and understand the system. I am not sure why anyone that owns the top-tier SVO resorts would use II (or SVN) - they would only be a trade down - but probably worthwhile for those un-anticipated life events.

Fredm said:

Just curious, did Ken555 deposit and trade his MH silver for WKORV directly?

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I call Starwood to deposit my WMH into II (the year prior to use, since I'm not using it at WMH in the summer), and then redeemed it online at II's web site. I've done this twice (it's an EOY) and each time they've deposited WMH summer weeks. Since that's what I own, and about the lowest priority they could find, I expect that's what they'll always deposit for me.

That said, and as I've posted in the past, I've made some great trades in II with it. So far this summer week has exchanged for:

Small 1 Bed -> Marriott Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit
Small 1 Bed -> Grand Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit
Large 1 Bed -> Westin Ka'anapali 1 bed unit (10 months out!)

I'm sure I'll get a first floor parking lot view (if that!) when I visit WKORV next May with this exchange. However, I will call tomorrow or Wed to try to place a preference on the record. I exchanged 10 months out, though I know my priority will be after all SVN internal exchanges so I'm not expecting much. Even so, that's just an incredible trade...

I also have no clue as how to use II. My thought is that I will either use my week in the SVO system or rent it but I would like to know more about II.

When I go to their site to look at potential trades for my Kierland unit, I don't really see anything enticing. Do you have to actually deposit your week to get trades such as Ken's? Also, what is the story on the 3-day Starwood preference period that I frequently see mentioned?

Ken555 said:

I call Starwood to deposit my WMH into II (the year prior to use, since I'm not using it at WMH in the summer), and then redeemed it online at II's web site. I've done this twice (it's an EOY) and each time they've deposited WMH summer weeks. Since that's what I own, and about the lowest priority they could find, I expect that's what they'll always deposit for me.

That said, and as I've posted in the past, I've made some great trades in II with it. So far this summer week has exchanged for:

Small 1 Bed -> Marriott Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit
Small 1 Bed -> Grand Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit
Large 1 Bed -> Westin Ka'anapali 1 bed unit (10 months out!)

I'm sure I'll get a first floor parking lot view (if that!) when I visit WKORV next May with this exchange. However, I will call tomorrow or Wed to try to place a preference on the record. I exchanged 10 months out, though I know my priority will be after all SVN internal exchanges so I'm not expecting much. Even so, that's just an incredible trade...

Click to expand...

Ken555,

Great trades!

So, your Mission Hills Silver is being deposited into I.I. (via the resort), and you are pulling great trades. It appears that all trades you mentioned are "better" weeks than that which you deposited; 5* ski weeks and WKORV.
When one considers that a MH Silver annual resale can be purchased for ~ 6k, it seems to add up to a great trade value.

This was essentially my point in mentioning that owners can get hung up on StarOptions. The best trade values can be the voluntary resorts, while the getting is good. They will become very much more so if my prediction about SVN membership comes to pass.
Consider that as an SVN member, a MH Silver is worth 56,300 StarOptions.
You pulled Marriott Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit, and Grand Timber Lodge ski week 2 bed unit for your small side, valued at 25800 Options.
You pulled a 1 br at WKORV for your 1 br large side, valued at 30,500 Options.

You could never get that kind of value (nor as soon) trading via SVN .

I am not saying that there is not a place for StarOptions. Just that too much can be made of their value as a component of ownership. Either the premium on mandatory resorts is too high, or more likely, the discount of voluntary resorts is overdone. Such are the ebb and flow of markets. There has been so much made of the absence of StarOptions with Voluntary resort resales, the inherent value of the interval as a trading commodity in the marketplace is easy to overlook. In so doing, the prices have become screaming bargains.

None of this is a rationale for buying at a resort one would not prefer to occupy. Simply making a comparison of the trade values. But, if looking to buy a trader, there is little question that with Voluntary resorts being hammered into the cellar, it can be a mistake to dismiss them from consideration.

Again, great trades, Ken!

Fredm

saluki said:

I also have no clue as how to use II. My thought is that I will either use my week in the SVO system or rent it but I would like to know more about II.

When I go to their site to look at potential trades for my Kierland unit, I don't really see anything enticing. Do you have to actually deposit your week to get trades such as Ken's? Also, what is the story on the 3-day Starwood preference period that I frequently see mentioned?

Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat. I have no clue how to use II . I've gone onto the site a few times and still don't get it. All I can see right now is my 2007 week available for exchanging, but how do I look with my 2008 week if I'm not sure I want to deposit it? I think there is a Request First option, but with no week showing up to use, how can I browse?

Is there a tutorial or something? II 101?

I.i. 101

Denise L said:

I'm in the same boat. I have no clue how to use II . I've gone onto the site a few times and still don't get it. All I can see right now is my 2007 week available for exchanging, but how do I look with my 2008 week if I'm not sure I want to deposit it? I think there is a Request First option, but with no week showing up to use, how can I browse?

Is there a tutorial or something? II 101?

Click to expand...

I will be happy to give it a try. I have one written that will have to be modified a bit for the Starwood system, but it should serve as a decent primer.

Once I have it edited, I will post it somewhere on TUG.

Fredm

Fredm said:

I will be happy to give it a try. I have one written that will have to be modified a bit for the Starwood system, but it should serve as a decent primer.

Once I have it edited, I will post it somewhere on TUG.

Fredm

Click to expand...

post here first please

Fredm said:

I will be happy to give it a try. I have one written that will have to be modified a bit for the Starwood system, but it should serve as a decent primer.

Once I have it edited, I will post it somewhere on TUG.

Fredm

Click to expand...

WOW- Thanks Fred. I am really looking forward to using this when you finish it.

Also, thanks again for the great OFD WKORV purchase that I made through you!