Starwood requalifications / "Retro"

The memo attached below purports to be Starwood's requalification procedure effective 6/15/07. I have no idea of its authenticity, but it does explain contradictory posts I have seen (and posted myself). According to this memo, a Hawaii or Caribbean purchase used to requalify another unit must be $40,000 or more; a US Mainland or Mexico purchase of over $20,000 is sufficient for that purpose.



STARWOOD VACATION OWNERSHIP Number: 01.07
Eff. Date: 6/15/07
Revision Date:


Resale Policy
Transfer of SVN/SPG with Resale VOI
All departments must adhere to the business rules of the Starwood Vacation Network to ensure that all owners are being treated equally.

Gift/Transfer VOI deed:
• Owners who wish to transfer a VOI with SVN/SPG “without consideration” to immediate family members may do so at no cost. SVO will monitor as needed.

SVN/SPG Transfer:
• Voluntary Resort - To maintain the value of the SVN as an incentive to purchase from SVO directly, Starwood Vacation Ownership will not allow the transfer or purchase of SVN or SPG benefits with the resale of a VOI at SVN voluntary resorts. Membership in the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) or Vistana Plus (VTP) is a benefit unique to the individual ownership. Under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, a membership in SVN and or VTP and the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser.
• Mandatory Resort - At mandatory resorts, Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) membership must automatically transfer with ownership; however, access to SPG membership and ability to convert to Starpoints will be withheld. This means that the use of the SVN Resorts is available; however, under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Starpoints Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser. Resale may only be enrolled into the SPG Program by SVO as Preferred level.

SVN/SPG Retro:
• SVN will enroll “resale” weeks into either SVN or VTP so long as the person owning the “resale” week purchases a new week of inventory directly from the developer.
• For each new SVO interval purchased at or greater than the minimum price ($20k for US mainland & Mexico projects; and $40k for Hawaii and Caribbean projects), SVO will “retro” one SVN eligible resale week on a one to one basis into SVN, including SPG membership at no cost (at the original resale SVN level for the resale week).
o If a new owner is purchasing a US mainland or Mexico VOI and wishes to retro one previously purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $20k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
o If a new owner is purchasing a Caribbean or Hawaii VOI and wishes to retro one previously purchased eligible resale week into SVN/SPG, the new VOI purchase price must be at least $40k (regardless of the location the VOI is being purchased).
o Minimum purchase prices set are based on the product purchased NOT on the property from which they are purchased
o This is a one-for-one retro…for each resale week to be “retro’d”, a new developer VOI must be purchased (at or above the minimum purchase price)

Document reviewed on 10.2.07kp/yw

I was just about to post this myself - did you see this in the eBay WKORV auction?

Excellent find.

If this memo is authentic, it lets us owners know that SVO is capable of establishing official rules relating to its programs AND actually communicating those rules to others without turning that communication into a worthless collection of marketing buzzwords.

One would hope that SVO would continue in this bold new direction by officially informing folks PRIOR TO PURCHASE which SVO resorts are “voluntary” and which ones are “mandatory.” The general consensus here on TUG is that all new SVO resorts (Aruba, Cabo, Sheraton Kauai, Desert Willow) will be voluntary resorts. To date, SVO has maintained its stoic code of silence on this issue.

Hey SVO, any chance you could publish a similar memo that officially identifies which resorts are mandatory and which ones are voluntary? No need to explain why you’ve made this distinction. We’ve all pretty much figured that one out.

-nodge

DavidnRobin said:

I was just about to post this myself - did you see this in the eBay WKORV auction?

Click to expand...

That would be correct.

vacationtime1 said:

According to this memo, a Hawaii or Caribbean purchase used to requalify another unit must be $40,000 or more; a US Mainland or Mexico purchase of over $20,000 is sufficient for that purpose.

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But when I was at WKORV in June, Starwood would have requalified my Kierland resale if I had bought a WKORV-N Ocean Front EOY for $37,950 (i.e. Hawaii purchase of less than $40,000). The discrepancy is not large, but it means that even when Starwood claims to have a policy "to ensure that all owners are being treated equally", they don't.

I posted the memo above so we all know the "official rules" (assuming the memo is authentic; it did come from an eBay auction, after all). But the real rule is that there still are no absolute rules when it comes to negotiating a requalification.

Robert,

Thank you so much for this info

I've changed the sticky to include this memo and edited Duke's first post on this subject so this info can be found with ease.

While it did come from eBay - the text and format would led me to believe that it is real. It even had more text that would make it seem real.

Also - the seller is asking $34.9K for an EOY unit - good luck with that... I would hate to tell them that this is over 2x what it is worth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Kaanapal...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

vacationtime1 said:

But when I was at WKORV in June, Starwood would have requalified my Kierland resale if I had bought a WKORV-N Ocean Front EOY for $37,950 (i.e. Hawaii purchase of less than $40,000). The discrepancy is not large, but it means that even when Starwood claims to have a policy "to ensure that all owners are being treated equally", they don't.

I posted the memo above so we all know the "official rules" (assuming the memo is authentic; it did come from an eBay auction, after all). But the real rule is that there still are no absolute rules when it comes to negotiating a requalification.

Click to expand...

While I agree that anything can be negotiated (as we did) - this memo is marked June 15th - meaning, they may have said that it would be possible - it doesn't mean that they could have pulled it off. I am glad I got under the wire on our requal (aka retro).

Interesting that it doesn't say anything about "like for like" (eg/ can only requal a 2 bedroom unit with another 2 bedroom unit; an EY with an EY). I wonder if that is still policy or not.

Glorian

I emailed the seller and asked where they got the memo from - they stated that they got it from SVO.

I guess I should be more specific - I would imagine that if anyone wanted to contact Jim Johnson - he could supply it. (and maybe ask the 'like-for-like' question).

grgs said:

Interesting that it doesn't say anything about "like for like" (eg/ can only requal a 2 bedroom unit with another 2 bedroom unit; an EY with an EY). I wonder if that is still policy or not.

Glorian

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For the most part the $20k and $40K amounts to purchasing a EY week. I have seen a pdf. of that memo on Starwood's stationary, but it didn't say who it was sent to.

oneohana said:

For the most part the $20k and $40K amounts to purchasing a EY week. I have seen a pdf. of that memo on Starwood's stationary, but it didn't say who it was sent to.

Click to expand...

True, but I'm wondering if requaling a 2 bedroom resale with a 1 bedroom purchase would be a possibility. I think a 1 bedroom plat at the Westin Lagunamar is around $27K? That's basically what you did with your Sheraton Mountain Vista resale, right?

Glorian

Yes, that is true. Did it fall into the $20k and "one for one" rule? I don't know. I kept hearing the "like for like" rule salespeople kept saying, but the memo from Starwood does not say that. Maybe there is a grey area in the interpretation of that rule. I was offered that deal, so I took it. I also heard rumors that *wood was going to put some kind of restrictions on the requals, but I can't remember the spefics.

SVO is in the business of selling VOIs - if they retro/requal one - it really doesn't affect much for them - except they just sold a VOI (their intent). If you have a resale mandatory resort (and therefore already in SVN) - and they requal - all it gets the buyer is a higher level in an Elite program that has more benefit to them than the buyer.

To duke's point - there is more value in requalifying a resale Voluntary resort since it makes it cheaper to gain higher level of Elite status (the buyers benefit), and get entrance into SVN that wasn't available with the V resale.

So if you are willing to spend the bucks - I think they will be more than glad to sell you a VOI regardless if it is an EOY-EY, or 1Bd-2Bd requal.

IMO

DavidnRobin said:

While I agree that anything can be negotiated (as we did) - this memo is marked June 15th - meaning, they may have said that it would be possible - it doesn't mean that they could have pulled it off. I am glad I got under the wire on our requal (aka retro).

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Starwood's offer to requalify my Kierland if I bought at WKORV-N was on June 28, thirteen days after the new policy supposedly went into effect.

FWIW, my Kierland TS is an annual and the "proposed" WKORV-N was an EOY, which partially answers Glorian's question at post #9 and oneohana's question at post #13 about the "one for one" rule.

DavidnRobin said:

SVO is in the business of selling VOIs - if they retro/requal one - it really doesn't affect much for them - except they just sold a VOI (their intent). If you have a resale mandatory resort (and therefore already in SVN) - and they requal - all it gets the buyer is a higher level in an Elite program that has more benefit to them than the buyer.

To duke's point - there is more value in requalifying a resale Voluntary resort since it makes it cheaper to gain higher level of Elite status (the buyers benefit), and get entrance into SVN that wasn't available with the V resale.

So if you are willing to spend the bucks - I think they will be more than glad to sell you a VOI regardless if it is an EOY-EY, or 1Bd-2Bd requal.

IMO

Click to expand...

It's great to know their policy.....But, for what it's worth, SVO Sales seems to be able to bend the rules as they go. For example, There have been several who have gotten the benefit of the "Explorer" points at no cost when making an immediate purchase. The Explorer policy/contract states that you need to return to make a purchase in the future. SO, even though we now have a written policy ..... You should still try to make your best deal on a requal (Even if you are not spending the amounts required).

And as David mentioned, purchasing a Voluntary Resale and then requal with a Mandatory Developer will give the best value.

duke said:

It's great to know their policy.....But, for what it's worth, SVO Sales seems to be able to bend the rules as they go. For example, There have been several who have gotten the benefit of the "Explorer" points at no cost when making an immediate purchase. The Explorer policy/contract states that you need to return to make a purchase in the future. SO, even though we now have a written policy ..... You should still try to make your best deal on a requal (Even if you are not spending the amounts required).

And as David mentioned, purchasing a Voluntary Resale and then requal with a Mandatory Developer will give the best value.

Click to expand...

It may have been because no one at SVO bothered or thought (no surprise here) to create a wriiten policy that goes out to the field sales. So perhaps this is next? But you are correct - always negotiate with them - especially with TUG knowledge - it certainly worked for us.

To add - I think the memo is also interesting because it also brings up V and M resorts - so many sales people don't even know the difference - or if they do - they are purposely feigning ignorance.

As to the retro of a V resale - I would have to add - this is if you want to own a V resort. I am still a believer in buying where you want to go - this is why we did buy WPORV (a V resort), but from SVO - they gave us a very fair deal (especially in retrospect) - without what was agreed upon - we would have not bought (and they realized this), and would have been in the market for another WKV VOI.

I agree with David and Robin. I've run into many an owner at WKORV upset because their exchange resulted in a mountain view (aka parking lot view) when they exchanged. You can get lucky at times, but there are no guarantees.

retro/requal

Since Starwood has decided to call, what we here on TUG have been calling "requalifaction", Retro maybe we should too.

DavidnRobin said:

While it did come from eBay - the text and format would led me to believe that it is real. It even had more text that would make it seem real.

Also - the seller is asking $34.9K for an EOY unit - good luck with that... I would hate to tell them that this is over 2x what it is worth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Westin-Kaanapal...ryZ15897QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Click to expand...

What is really funny is that the auction has a bid listed for it - right... someone with enough knowledge to use eBay to bid on a TS would bid on an EOY 2Bd WKORV VOI that is listed for over 2 times what it is really worth. {the sound of BS alarm going off}

• Mandatory Resort - At mandatory resorts, Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) membership must automatically transfer with ownership; however, access to SPG membership and ability to convert to Starpoints will be withheld. This means that the use of the SVN Resorts is available; however, under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), along with access to the SPG Starpoints Conversion Program, cannot be transferred to a resale purchaser. Resale may only be enrolled into the SPG Program by SVO as Preferred level.

Interesting because SVO recently sent me a letter offering me an opportunity to purchase 80k StarPoints for $1675. It reads, "By granting automatic Gold level status in the Starwood Preferred Guest program, the Starwood Vacation Network makes it possible for you to take advantage of a special incentive that we are offering to help you receive StarPoints before you even set foot in your home resort."

I'm a resale owner.