[2007] For those of you wanting to donate your ts...

[mari311]

I just wanted to share what we have done...

We never donated the unit's deed... just the right to use 1 week. Once we did it for a wish-granting organization and more recently a school scholarship fund used it at as an auction item. We recieved no cash for these donations... just did cause we had the extra weeks and didn't want to go to waste. There were some tax benefits, but talk to your tax advisor about that.

What we did recently, i have a week I can't use, and wanted to rent it. I responded to a post on another website of someone looking to auction it off to benefit a grade school. Since i was really looking to rent to cover my maintance, the deal we struck was to do just that. they get for their school anything above my maintaince, and I get my maintaince paid. Since I know that in the past this unit can get $2000 at a charitable auction (people are much more generous) I know the school will make out well (this is an orlando unit and they alread got 4 disney hopper tickets from Disney) so it should do REALLY well. This auction is happening today... so I will let you all know how it goes when they call me. Oh and we chose to cover the exchange fees but we could have asked for that too..

I am posting this cause I have seen posts of people trying to get rid of their timeshares because of MF... If you can hold on to it and work out a deal with your PTA, school or other charitable organization in your area...both you and the charity could benefit. You get to keep the unit for when you might want to use it, and you don't have the headaches of renting/selling it out when you can't use it.

Hope this is helpful..

Mari
BTW..once the auction comes in, the charity will sign the rental agreement I have used when i rent it. I won't charge them a deposit, but I do include a responsibility clause.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by mari311

There were some tax benefits, but talk to your tax advisor about that.

Great idea, but there are no tax benefits.

The Internal Revenue Code specifically disallows a charitable deduction unless the owner donates his/her entire ownership in the timeshare. There are some limited exceptions for certain types of trust arrangements.

See posts #5, 8 and 12 in this thread for the detailed tax rules, legal citations and an example from the IRS Charitable Donations publication.

A tax advisor who suggests that such a donation gives rise to a deduction is incorrect. Further, that rule is so basic that if one has such a tax advisor, it might be time for a new one!

[mari311]

it does help defray costs in non-use years... and can benefit some worthy causes.....

[mtwingcpa]

Originally Posted by Dave M

The Internal Revenue Code specifically disallows a charitable deduction unless the owner donates his/her entire ownership in the timeshare. There are some limited exceptions for certain types of trust arrangements.

Dave -

I totally, completely and absolutely agree that you can't claim a tax deduction for the "value" of the donated rental.

But, the question that often comes up is whether you may nevertheless claim a charitable deduction for any associated out-of-pocket costs. For example, if I donated the use of my vacation place, might I nevertheless deduct the cost of associated cleaning? Or a gift basket left for the guests? Etc.

In the timeshare context this would focus on the maintenance fee.

[mari311]

That is an interesting question.. I would be interested to hear the answer... because I know you can deduct out-of-pocket expenses when you volunteer your time to a charitable organization, ie. supplies, milage (if you use your car as part of the volunteer activities like transporting elderly to appointments) and i am sure there are others... So it would make sense, that while you can't deduct the FMV of the unit you could deduct the outlay of money to make that unit available.. if so, would that include guest certificates and exchange fees?

Originally Posted by mtwingcpa

Dave -

I totally, completely and absolutely agree that you can't claim a tax deduction for the "value" of the donated rental.

But, the question that often comes up is whether you may nevertheless claim a charitable deduction for any associated out-of-pocket costs. For example, if I donated the use of my vacation place, might I nevertheless deduct the cost of associated cleaning? Or a gift basket left for the guests? Etc.

In the timeshare context this would focus on the maintenance fee.

[Dave M]

The MF is not deductible as a donation, since it's a personal expense. No deduction is allowed with respect the the use of the timeshare - either costs related to it or the value of it. A deduction for a donation, where one is allowed, is generally based on the value of what's donated, not how much is paid. Thus, the cleaning might increase the value of the week, but it doesn't change the nondeductible result. Payment of the MFs doesn't increase the value of the use of the week.

The gift basket would be allowed if donated to the charity at the auction. If the terms of the timeshare week auction included the gift basket, the cost of it should be allowable because the purchaser of the gift basket is donating that property - the basket - to the charitable auction. However, if the owner simply arranged for a gift basket to be left in the unit for the benefit of the successful bidder, there should be no allowable deduction.

You are correct that there are some specific provisions allowing mileage and certain other expenses in performing services for a charitable entity. That provision is included in the law. There is a discussion of such allowable out-of-pocket expenses "in giving services" to a charity starting on page 5 of this I\RS publication. The expenses related to the timeshare usage (donation of a partial interest) is a specific disallowance included in the law and that discussion starts on page 9.

[mari311]

The expenses related to the timeshare usage (donation of a partial interest) is a specific disallowance included in the law and that discussion starts on page 9.

I get that... but if I buy a guest certificate and that is what is auctioned off... do I get the deduction of the GC... Just hypothetical...

Oh and are you an accountant?

Thanks Dave...

[brucecz]

Yes Dave is a very experianced accountant who is rightly considered a tax expert on timeshartes not only on this website but on 2 other independant timeshare websites.

Unfortuneately if anyone takes your advice that you have offered they may end up having tax problems.

It is very apparent after reading your other posting strings that you are very inexperanced in Timesharing and tax preperation in regard to timeshares.

IMHO I would suggest that instead of challenging things you do not like the resale timeshare worth of the of a timeshare you over paid for by at least $30,000 and the expert tax advice like Dave offered that you don't like, please make sure of your facts before challenging those know facts.

There are no quick and easy answers to make money as a owner from timesharing. It takes studying to aquire the knownledge to make some money form timesharinf as a owner.

Stick around and read the stickys, old postings, etc and maybe you will learn to benifiet form your ownerships.

Good Luck to you.
Bruce

[mari311]

only a way to defer costs of maintance fee... I actually said....

but talk to your tax advisor about that.

I didn't mean to offer tax advice and if that is what is construed... my apologies.

Everyone should talk to their tax advisor... I am not an accountant... and even if i was I wouldn't be giving out advice on the internet...

I am a mental health professional and I don't give advice out to people on the internet... too many liability issues and I wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand what I write, because face to face communication is so different from the internet, especially in the realm of Mental Health.

So that said, if my previous post is going to cause harm, i would galdly delete it.

Dave, if it is a problem please delete it or i will change it

It is very apparent after reading your other posting strings that you are very inexperanced in Timesharing and tax preperation in regard to timeshares.

This is true and I thought I had made that clear in some of my posts... I am learning and getting an education... thanks for being so observant...

IMHO I would suggest that instead of challenging things you do not like the resale timeshare worth of the of a timeshare you over paid for by at least $30,000 and the expert tax advice like Dave offered that you don't like, please make sure of your facts before challenging those know facts.

As for overpaying.. You are absolutely right, and I know that I made that clear in one of my posts as well.. So, now that I am a member of TUG and trying to learn and figure out what to do with my 30K nightmare, it is not proper etiquette to ask questions? Especially if those questions challenge the current authority? HMMM

So to summarize... Are you saying that if we are new and inexperienced we should keep our mouths shut and not challenge anything we read?

If that is true I missed it on the posting rules...

And, Bruce, thanks for the support....

Mari

[brucecz]

Originally Posted by mari311

I get that... but if I buy a guest certificate and that is what is auctioned off... do I get the deduction of the GC... Just hypothetical...

Oh and are you an accountant?

Thanks Dave...

This sounded like a challage to Dave to me after dave tried to give you good advice.

Also I see you did not point to the advice you gave out in your first post on this string your started about.


Quote" I just wanted to share what we have done...

We never donated the unit's deed... just the right to use 1 week. Once we did it for a wish-granting organization and more recently a school scholarship fund used it at as an auction item. We recieved no cash for these donations... just did cause we had the extra weeks and didn't want to go to waste. There were some tax benefits, but talk to your tax advisor about that." Unquote

I can see why you might want Dave to delete this portion were you said that there were Quote "tax benifiets" Unquote in your first post.


In regards to your stating that you are "I am a mental health professional " that has nothing to do with the timesharing or timeshare income tax dedution.

IMHO what you you said on another string that you paid over $30,000 for a Oelando Westgate tells many of us more about you than your profession does about your timesharing experiance.


Bruce

[brucecz]

Originally Posted by mari311

As for overpaying.. You are absolutely right, and I know that I made that clear in one of my posts as well.. So, now that I am a member of TUG and trying to learn and figure out what to do with my 30K nightmare, it is not proper etiquette to ask questions? Especially if those questions challenge the current authority? HMMM

So to summarize... Are you saying that if we are new and inexperienced we should keep our mouths shut and not challenge anything we read?

If that is true I missed it on the posting rules...

And, Bruce, thanks for the support....

Mari

IMHO if you are going to challenge something do it because you know it what you are challening is wrong, not just because their veiws posted are differant from yours are were not what you wanted to hear that proved you wrong, etc.

After paying $15 to join Tug and being a member a few days does not make you a knowlegdeable timeshare owner. Did you after a few days in the class challenge your professor without knowing the subject matter? I doubt it.

IMHO the facts offered by others besides me do do fit your wants and that is seemingly you want to challenge them.

But that is your choice if you do not want ask questions to learn or continute making nuerous pronoucements that factually inaccurate in regard to timeshare values or possible income tax ramification

Bruce

[mari311]

You seem to think someone is "challenging" an authority with a follow-up question...

Quote:
Dave wrote: The expenses related to the timeshare usage (donation of a partial interest) is a specific disallowance included in the law and that discussion starts on page 9.

and I said: I get that... but if I buy a guest certificate and that is what is auctioned off... do I get the deduction of the GC... Just hypothetical...

I probably should have been more eloborate in this question, but in line with what Dave said about the gift basket, if I bought a Guest Certificate and donated that would it be similar to donating lets say a VISA gift card... It was just a thought. The question of maintaince fees was brought up by the other poster, mtwingcpa, I was merely adding another angle. I don't plan on donating a bunch of gift certificates... It was just getting to be an interesting dialogue... I and I by no means am questioning someone's authority.

Oh and are you an accountant?

This was not meant to be sarcastic... he seemed to know the IRS website better than google... so he must be an accountant or someone who should be.

I can see why you might want Dave to delete this portion were you said that there were Quote "tax benifiets" Unquote in your first post.

correct that should be deleted as there were no tax benefits. I was mistaken

In regards to your stating that you are "I am a mental health professional " that has nothing to do with the timesharing or timeshare income tax dedution.

that is true but, you like to look at what I say out of context, what I said was....

Everyone should talk to their tax advisor... I am not an accountant... and even if i was I wouldn't be giving out advice on the internet...

I am a mental health professional and I don't give advice out to people on the internet... too many liability issues and I wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand what I write, because face to face communication is so different from the internet, especially in the realm of Mental Health.

My reason for indicating I am a Mental health professional is that
1. Professionals shouldn't give out advice on the internet, because of liability issues
2. As a mental health professional... communication verbal and non-verbal are essential parts of the trade.. Communicating on the internet leaves out the many nuances of human interaction we take in without even realizing it. Communicating this way can lead to many misinterpretations and misunderstandings. Translate that into this current thread... If you can't then that's my point.


It will be a very long time before I venture out and post again....

[Dave M]

Mari -

I didn't view what you wrote as "challenging" me. I viewed it as a very logical inquiry regarding some rules that seem a bit strange and aren't always clear. I welcome your questions. And, yes, I'm a CPA and have spent over 43 years (so far) in various aspects of tax practice.

If you auction off a week at your own resort, you usually wouldn't be paying for a guest certificate. But if your resort has a program where you must buy a guest certificate from them in order for the successful auction bidder to check in, that cost would not be deductible. It's just one more cost related to donating a week that you own.

However, if you donate a week that you have exchanged, I believe there is a strong argument for claiming a tax deduction. RCI and II are very clear in their program terms that the use of those exchanged weeks is subject to their rules - thus evidencing some of the characteristics of ownership. In any case, when you donate it, you're donating your entire interest in that exchanged week.

How much is the deduction for that exchanged week? In theory, it's fair market value. However, since in most cases you haven't held that exchanged week for a full year before donating it, you would be subject to a special rule that limits the deduction to cost. Thus, I think your deduction would be equal to the amount of the exchange fee plus the cost of the guest certificate.

[brucecz]

Originally Posted by mari311

So to summarize... Are you saying that if we are new and inexperienced we should keep our mouths shut and not challenge anything we read?

If that is true I missed it on the posting rules...

And, Bruce, thanks for the support....

Mari

I will not relpy in kind to that sarcastic reply seeing you finally admitted in your last post directed at me states that your tax deduction advice in our first post was wrong.

Quote"correct that should be deleted as there were no tax benefits. I was mistaken." Unquote

The main point I made was that in your first post you gave bad tax info that could prove costly to someone if taken and then auited. If you choose not to agree that is better to ask advice than trying to give legal and tax advice if you are not sure it is correct then it should not IMHO be posted as factual then that is on you.


Here is a helpfull hint and if you check with Dave to verify that you will find if you go to sell your Westgate Orlando Time Share you may run into a problem with their ROFR.

Also if you have a sales outfit else sell it for you other than Westgate, what Westgate will try to do to in that type selling situation.

Good luck because with your Orlando Westgate or "Wastegate" as as of their owners on Tug call it, you may need it.

Read the Tug "Stickys" on the Selling and Rental subjects you have bought up.

PS The Westgate in Las Vegas units are very nice 2 bedroom units we enjoyed staying in last month.


Bruce

[mtwingcpa]

Originally Posted by brucecz

The main point I made was that in your first post you gave bad tax info that could prove costly to someone if taken and then auited. If you choose not to agree that is better to ask advice than trying to give legal and tax advice if you are not sure it is correct then it should not IMHO be posted as factual then that is on you.

I probably know better than to jump in here, but just what EXACTLY was the "bad tax info" in question? She initially said that there were some "tax benefits," but she didn't advocate any SPECIFIC treatment that could have otherwise mislead anyone. She later stated she was mistaken and there apparently weren't any tax benefits in her case. In any event, she recommended that readers should consult their own tax advisor.

So just where is the problem with this?

[mtwingcpa]

Originally Posted by Dave M

If you auction off a week at your own resort, you usually wouldn't be paying for a guest certificate. But if your resort has a program where you must buy a guest certificate from them in order for the successful auction bidder to check in, that cost would not be deductible. It's just one more cost related to donating a week that you own.

Dave -

I'm not sure that I totally agree. If the expense was one that would not have been incurred in the absence of the charitable bequest, and the expense was NON-CAPITAL in nature, then I don't see that such a deduction for an out of pocket OPERATING EXPENSE would be barred by the rule on donations of partial interests of PROPERTY. Is there any case law on this point?

As I understand it, out of pocket expenses are deemed to be CASH contributions, not IN-KIND or PROPERTY contributions. Note, for example, that you can deduct the out of pocket costs of operating an automobile for charity, even though you are obviously NOT giving the ENTIRE AUTOMOBILE to the charity.

Now, that said, there are other hurdles to overcome, such as the likely presumption that the expense was inherently PERSONAL in nature, etc. Still, I wouldn't conclude that such an expense could NEVER be deducted.

[brucecz]

Originally Posted by mtwingcpa

I probably know better than to jump in here, but just what EXACTLY was the "bad tax info" in question? She initially said that there were some "tax benefits," but she didn't advocate any SPECIFIC treatment that could have otherwise mislead anyone. She later stated she was mistaken and there apparently weren't any tax benefits in her case. In any event, she recommended that readers should consult their own tax advisor.

So just where is the problem with this?

Quoting the OP "correct that should be deleted as there were no tax benefits. I was mistaken" Unquote.

Also reread post numbers 1,2,4 and 6.

I see that you also want to debate Dave in the post number 16that followed yours to me.

I did not am I am not debating the exact "bad tax info" as such. That is Daves field and he is an expert. Feel free to kept on debating Dave all you want about tax laws as long as you want.

I am not going to get into a debate about the various tax laws, codes, etc.

I am not a expert and that is why we had our business accountant for 15 years when I owned my own business until I retired in early 2001 because I am not a expert on taxes.

I wrote out payroll and handled all of the pay in and pay outs, but our accountant did the
Filings, etc.

Since 2000 we have had our accountant do the tax work related to our timeshare rentals and flipping timeshares. We are again required to File Sate and Federal quarter taxes a couple of years ago. Our accountant is the one that has to know the exact laws, not us. I trust her after 20 years.

My main point was and still is that the OP is doing a disservice by stating as fact in her OP that what she posted

Quote" There were some tax benefits, but talk to your tax advisor about that". It is just that simple."Unquote

To state that there are tax benefits when there were not any is a disservice to any one who would only read that post and then gave thier week up in expectation of a tax write off.

That is my main point and the other stuff later introduced after by the OP is IMHO just a few red herrings made to distract the from the fact that the OP's first posts advice was bad.

That is why I suggest that you reread posts 1, 2, 4 and 6 for your own edification.

You can debate Dave on the various tax codes, etc as they apply to timeshares as IMHO I have spent to much time on this string.

Good night.

Bruce

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by mtwingcpa

I'm not sure that I totally agree. If the expense was one that would not have been incurred in the absence of the charitable bequest, and the expense was NON-CAPITAL in nature, then I don't see that such a deduction for an out of pocket OPERATING EXPENSE would be barred by the rule on donations of partial interests of PROPERTY. Is there any case law on this point?

Not all out-of-pocket expenses for the benefit of charities are deductible. The specific provision allowing such expenses is for expenses incurred in connection with the performing of services for the charity. I assume you would agree with the tax law provision that an expenditure is not deductible unless there is a provision that allows it. In this case, there isn't one. See the discussion starting at page 5 of the IRS publication linked in one of my previous posts. Also see Reg. §1.170A-1(g) for the very narrow rules related to the allowance for out-of-pocket expenses.

The other typical deduction is the contribution of cash or other property to the charity. That's what most of this thread is about. The rule for deductions of property are very specific and don't include a deduction for out of pocket expenses, unless the cost incurred is for some tangible property donated, such as the gift basket discussed earlier. Thus, for example, mileage to check up on a vacation home to ensure its readiness for a successful bidder at a charity auction would not be deductible, but mileage of a board member of a charity in connection with attending board meetings would be deductible.

[JudyS]

Originally Posted by Dave M

...However, if you donate a week that you have exchanged, I believe there is a strong argument for claiming a tax deduction. RCI and II are very clear in their program terms that the use of those exchanged weeks is subject to their rules - thus evidencing some of the characteristics of ownership. In any case, when you donate it, you're donating your entire interest in that exchanged week.

How much is the deduction for that exchanged week? In theory, it's fair market value. However, since in most cases you haven't held that exchanged week for a full year before donating it, you would be subject to a special rule that limits the deduction to cost. Thus, I think your deduction would be equal to the amount of the exchange fee plus the cost of the guest certificate.

So, Dave, if I understand you, you are saying that one does not actually own the week's use that one has received from the exchange company, which is why the exchange company can forbid you to rent your exchange. So, if you donate an exchanged week, you are donating the entire thing that you received from the exchange company, rather than just use of property that you personally own.

So, if the exchange was made a full year before you donated the week, you might be entitled to deduct the full market value of that week's use? Wow, Dave, that is really interesting!

[Dave M]

Yes, I think you might. However, as far as I know, there is no official IRS guidance on the donation of exchanged timeshare weeks. Thus, upon examination, one could expect an IRS agent to take a position favorable to the government

[LASTRAW]

Originally Posted by mari311

I just wanted to share what we have done...

We never donated the unit's deed... just the right to use 1 week. Once we did it for a wish-granting organization and more recently a school scholarship fund used it at as an auction item. We recieved no cash for these donations... just did cause we had the extra weeks and didn't want to go to waste. There were some tax benefits, but talk to your tax advisor about that.

What we did recently, i have a week I can't use, and wanted to rent it. I responded to a post on another website of someone looking to auction it off to benefit a grade school. Since i was really looking to rent to cover my maintance, the deal we struck was to do just that. they get for their school anything above my maintaince, and I get my maintaince paid. Since I know that in the past this unit can get $2000 at a charitable auction (people are much more generous) I know the school will make out well (this is an orlando unit and they alread got 4 disney hopper tickets from Disney) so it should do REALLY well. This auction is happening today... so I will let you all know how it goes when they call me. Oh and we chose to cover the exchange fees but we could have asked for that too..

I am posting this cause I have seen posts of people trying to get rid of their timeshares because of MF... If you can hold on to it and work out a deal with your PTA, school or other charitable organization in your area...both you and the charity could benefit. You get to keep the unit for when you might want to use it, and you don't have the headaches of renting/selling it out when you can't use it.

Hope this is helpful..

Mari
BTW..once the auction comes in, the charity will sign the rental agreement I have used when i rent it. I won't charge them a deposit, but I do include a responsibility clause.

I was working on selling or donating my TS but after reading this, its not a bad idea. Can you email your sample rental agreement you use?

[DeniseM]

This thead is from 2007, and the OP has not been back since. When you use the search function, be sure you notice the date at the top of the thread.

All though it is a nice gesture, there is no financial or tax advantage to the owner when they donate one week's usage to charity - it is purely a give-away.

There are two places on TUG where you can give away your TS's for free (no charge for the Ads.) There are other cheap and free sites on the internet, as well.

TUG Marketplace - the only cost is your TUG membership - $15 (List it for $1 and it will automatically go in the Bargain Basement Ads.)

Bargain Deals - just write a simple post with all the pertinent info. - Totally FREE!

To make it more attractive I would:

1) Pay 2010 maintenance fees

2) Pay for the title transfer (you can get a simple professional transfer for about $100) I've used this licensed document Prep. company and the owner is a Tugger. - Note, this is my personal recommendation, not as a representative of TUG.

3) Reserve a popular holiday week in 2010 for the new owner

Good luck!

[LASTRAW]

Originally Posted by DeniseM

This thead is from 2007, and the OP has not been back since. When you use the search function, be sure you notice the date at the top of the thread.

All though it is a nice gesture, there is no financial or tax advantage to the owner when they donate one week's usage to charity - it is purely a give-away.

There are two places on TUG where you can give away your TS's for free (no charge for the Ads.) There are other cheap and free sites on the internet, as well.

TUG Marketplace - the only cost is your TUG membership - $15 (List it for $1 and it will automatically go in the Bargain Basement Ads.)

Bargain Deals - just write a simple post with all the pertinent info. - Totally FREE!

To make it more attractive I would:

1) Pay 2010 maintenance fees

2) Pay for the title transfer (you can get a simple professional transfer for about $100) I've used this licensed document Prep. company and the owner is a Tugger. - Note, this is my personal recommendation, not as a representative of TUG.

3) Reserve a popular holiday week in 2010 for the new owner

Good luck!

Thanks you DenniseM and I appreciate your advice, and I will be sure to notice the date at the top of the thread next time I use the search function.

[mittens]

Hello....this is my first time posting. I have been on a mission to dispose of our timeshare in orlando. I have encountered lots of companies willing to do just that for an upfront fee of around $2000. I have taken the advice of all of you and declined their offers. However, what about donating to Donateforacause which is advertised on the TUG newsletter. Even if the fee is $2000. Any advice? Thanks in advance!

[DeniseM]

Before I paid anyone a cent, I'd make a real effort to give it away. Please see my post, 2 above yours, for all the how-to info.

Good luck!