Rental Weirdness

So... I have a rental listed on CL. I get an email from someone asking if is available. I write back stating that it is. And, without confirmation, they send me full payment thru PayPal. With no rental contract in place. Then, because I hadn't responded immediately (I had shut my computer down after I sent the email that it was available) - I received a barrage of emails asking me why I hadn't responded and whether this offer was legit!

So... where is the scam (if this is one)? or is a case over someone being overzealous?

That is very strange behavior indeed! I can't imagine a"normal" person sending full payment. I'm not too familiar with the workings of paypal, but once the money is posted it's definatley in the account? It doesn't need time to clear like a checking account? I'd refund the money once you know it's"cleared" and if they really want to rent they can wait to write the contract. Also you can call paypal and ask about any current scammers working with that method.

I think they are legit - I will hold their money - and if it doesn't work out - I will refund - minus the charge PayPal fee.

They have contacted me - and I explained my concern to them and how best to proceed.

DavidnRobin said:

I think they are legit - I will hold their money - and if it doesn't work out - I will refund - minus the charge PayPal fee.

They have contacted me - and I explained my concern to them and how best to proceed.

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David - I think I would pull the money out of Paypal immediately, just in case this is some kind of scam. Because there are ways they could get the money back from Paypal, if this is a scam. I agree that this is WEIRD!

Good luck!

I've used PayPal about 20 or 25 times and once I get the email that I've won the auction, I go ahead and send payment. I don't wait for the seller to contact me. All my feedback is positive and says, "Quick payer!!"

They sound like avid eBayers to me. Eager to make the commitment to you before anyone else. But they are definitely being too trusting, no reflection on you DavidnRobin. I woul dguess that they have never rented before, and wanted to take advantage of what they saw as a great deal :whoopie: before anyone else did.

LisaRex said:

I've used PayPal about 20 or 25 times and once I get the email that I've won the auction, I go ahead and send payment. I don't wait for the seller to contact me. All my feedback is positive and says, "Quick payer!!"

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This wasn't thru eBay - it was from Craigs List.

It is strange - and I will be cautious, but so far seems legit - just a bit eager. It is a fair price, but not an incredible one - the rental has been out there a while (~6 weeks).

Thanks for the advice - everyone. Was just curious that if it is scam that I hadn't heard about. They could certainly try to obtain the funds back - but they would have to prove that I did not hold up my part of the bargin (which I plan to honor).

I tend to agree with Denise. I'm very skeptical...we've been scammed before in a different way. Paying right away is what you do on ebay not renting on craigslist.

califgal said:

I tend to agree with Denise. I'm very skeptical...we've been scammed before in a different way. Paying right away is what you do on ebay not renting on craigslist.

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How were you scammed? because...

The renter now wants to back out of the rental. They thought they could sublet if they couldn't use it (???). They say they are willing to cover my costs - beyond what the PayPal fees were - what do you think is fair? Suggestions?

have any of you rented a ts that you own without a contract. it seems that if you get the money and the person gets the confirmation in their name that should be it, right? could something go wrong?

if one does need a contract where can we find a very simple one.

the resort takes the person who is staying in the resorts credit card so they would be able to charge them for damages, etc, correct?

I have only used a contract once - my first rental, since then I have only sent them a confirmation directly from the resort. A contract is only as good as the renter's word, and it would cost me more than it's worth to sue someone. I get all my money up front, so I don't have to worry about not getting a final payment.

I do confirm the terms in an email and in the notes section of the paypal "bill." If someone wants a contract, I would provide one, but I don't think it's very useful to the owner. There is a contract in the stickies on the Buying, Selling, Renting Board.

pointsjunkie said:

have any of you rented a ts that you own without a contract. it seems that if you get the money and the person gets the confirmation in their name that should be it, right? could something go wrong?

if one does need a contract where can we find a very simple one.

the resort takes the person who is staying in the resorts credit card so they would be able to charge them for damages, etc, correct?

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PerryM has written extensively regarding this. I have never used a contract and also do not see the need. Before receiving payment (in full) I send the confirmatin in their name with a letter authorizing my consent and encourage the renter to call the resort to confirm for their own piece of mind. If the renter backs out, I can always change the reservation info.

Since the resort gets the renter's credit card info, I don't see the need for me to get a deposit as well.

Jana

DavidnRobin said:

How were you scammed? because...

The renter now wants to back out of the rental. They thought they could sublet if they couldn't use it (???). They say they are willing to cover my costs - beyond what the PayPal fees were - what do you think is fair? Suggestions?

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If you turned anyone away then I'd say you have a right to withhold some portion of the rental fee. If you didn't, then I'd be more willing to return their money.

Of course, I'm not all that familiar with all the scams out there. Some are very, very clever. I've heard of people accepting checks that were later turned out to be fraudulent but not sure how someone could do this via PayPal. I guess I'd do a bit of investigating to see if there's any issues with people paying right away and then asking for a refund.

Is there a way to simply not accept the transaction vs. depositing and then refunding the money?

DavidnRobin said:

How were you scammed? because...

The renter now wants to back out of the rental. They thought they could sublet if they couldn't use it (???). They say they are willing to cover my costs - beyond what the PayPal fees were - what do you think is fair? Suggestions?

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Oh..... I don't like this at all. I don't know what their angle is but I would pass on these people. They are going to be 10 kinds of trouble before this is over. Like if you return the money to them and then 2 weeks later PayPal comes after you for the cash again because the CC is stolen. Careful!! I would call PayPal and tell them that a suspicious deposit was made into your account and that you want them to reverse it out back to where it came from. Don't give any refund...... make PayPal back it out. Or tell the purchaser that they are going to have to reject charge with their credit card company and let PayPal and the CC company hash out how the money goes back. But I would NOT send the renter a refund. You could end up paying twice.

Are you trying to rent out 4th of July? If so, the reason it's slow going is because it's too soon. Right now CL people are looking for Spring Break. Remember, the rest of the non-timesharing world does not bother (for the most part) to book their vacations a year in advance.

I think rocky's advise is good...make paypal back it out. They just sound too wacky, sounds like they are up to something,and it's not good!

When I had said we had been scammed I wrote about it here, so I won't go into the whole story. But we were the renters and learned that we did not do our due dilagence as we should have.

califgal said:

I think rocky's advise is good...make paypal back it out. They just sound too wacky, sounds like they are up to something,and it's not good!

When I had said we had been scammed I wrote about it here, so I won't go into the whole story. But we were the renters and learned that we did not do our due dilagence as we should have.

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Time for an update... (btw, this was for WKV not WKORV)

The renters want to back out. If true, they wanted the ability to sublet the unit if they couldn't use it.

I am going to refund the money via the PayPal process to refund the money. If this is not on the up-and-up (e.g. stolen credit card), and they got access the the stolen credit card user's PayPal account, then the money will be it this account (and not mine).

I am going to refund all but $50 back - why? Because of associated fees and my time in dealing with this (in many aspects) - I had already created a revised rental contract, and removed the listings of this rental, etc..

Right now they are on the hook for this rental if I wanted to make them accountable. They sent funds to my PayPal account without waiting for an invoice - an invoice and being a verified user is required for PayPal protection. I am willing to follow through with putting the reservation in their name and letting them deal with it...

This would be a pretty risky scam since (on the scammers part) - why would a scammer send valid funds for payment?

This is more of being overzealous (sending money prior to contact of details). They saw what is listed as a very good rental price and thinking if it didn't work for them they could rent for what they paid (or more!?). Amazing to me that they thought they could turn-around and sublet this rental (considering they are SVO Owners) if they couldn't use.

This links to the rental contract discussion on this thread. This a good example of why a rental contract is useful. While PayPal (when used correctly) protects the renter - and just makes the money transfer process easier for the Owner. The rental contract helps to protect the Owner (and the Renter) by clearly stating the conditions so there are no misunderstandings.

The rental contract states the condition of the rental - beyond the normal details - importantly...
1) the limit of occupants allowed occupy the unit (e.g. 4)
2) the age of the renters (>21) and that someone over the age of 21 is required to be present in the unit with those under the age of 21
3) that any damage to the unit is the responsibility of the renter
4) a valid credit card is needed upon check-in in the renters name (as stated on the reservation confirmation) - btw, this is where the renter contacted me asking if they could put another name on the reservation (...NO...)
5) all resort fees and incidentals are to be paid by the renter using the credit card above upon check-out
6) the payment method and required payments - and the associated process to put the renters name on the reservation

anyway... looks like it is back on the rental market...

Well they certainly were overzealous,and a bit odd! but I think you are better off without them, even though you went through a lot of hassle.

The other reason to use a contract is to protect you if the renter tries to reject the charge later. It is proof of the validity of the charge.

Also, I don't ever remove my ads until I have a signed contract and cash in my account. And I tell people that I will continue to market and entertain other inquiries so they need to get their paperwork in quickly.

The contracts and checks are always in my hands in 48 - 72 hours.

rocky said:

The other reason to use a contract is to protect you if the renter tries to reject the charge later. It is proof of the validity of the charge.

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This went with the above as seller protection - because clear terms and conditions are laid out for both.

Too many things can occur where if there is not reasonable documentation - then the renter could attempt to get monies back. On top of this - if the renter creates damage that is discovered after check-out - the resort could come after the Owner.

As to when to collect payment - I will only put the reservation in the renters name after all monies are obtain.

Since the Owner has control of the name on the reservation via SVO/SVN no matter what - it is important for the Renter to have this contract also (in case of an unscrupulous Owner).

On an additional note - since someone (bad) could get the info that SVO Owner Services requires to get into your SVO account from the contract (and a little extra effort) - I have put a 'password' on my account that the SVO associate will require for any reservations or reservation changes. I think that this is a good idea in general, but certainly for those renting.

Speaking of SVO Rental Contracts

Speaking of SVO rental contracts/agreements... (now that we have our own forum)

I am thinking of creating a separate thread for a design and wording of a SVO-specific rental contract/agreement. I have had a few people contact me for my contract wording - and perhaps would it be good for SVO renters to have (making TUG and our new forum even better). Or even SVO renting thread overall with a contract part, a process part, etc.

I would be happy to supply the contract (in generic terms) and copy here - since I in turn got it from others Tugger's contracts - and morphed.

If successful -maybe it could become a SW 'Sticky' at some point? :whoopie:

Any issues/concerns with this that I may not be aware of? (DeniseM?)

DavidnRobin said:

This went with the above as seller protection - because clear terms and conditions are laid out for both.

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I thought seller protection didn't apply for rentals because it wasn't something tangible that could be shipped?

DavidnRobin said:

On an additional note - since someone (bad) could get the info that SVO Owner Services requires to get into your SVO account from the contract (and a little extra effort) - I have put a 'password' on my account that the SVO associate will require for any reservations or reservation changes. I think that this is a good idea in general, but certainly for those renting.

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Oooh. I never thought of that. Good point!

arlene22 said:

I thought seller protection didn't apply for rentals because it wasn't something tangible that could be shipped?

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I believe all that is required for PayPal protection (supposedly...) is that both buyer and seller be verified. I think this is required to transfer by credit card or receive credit card funds. To get protection an invoice detailing what is being sold must be sent from seller to buyer - and the funds received by paying via this invoice. The PayPal protection is really for the person sending the money since they are taking the risk.

DavidnRobin said:

I am thinking of creating a separate thread for a design and wording of a SVO-specific rental contract/agreement.

If successful -maybe it could become a SW 'Sticky' at some point? :whoopie:

Any issues/concerns with this that I may not be aware of? (DeniseM?)

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Being a newbie Mod, I have no idea...send it to me and I will run it by the powers-that-be. How would an SVO rental contract be different?

DeniseM said:

Being a newbie Mod, I have no idea...send it to me and I will run it by the powers-that-be. How would an SVO rental contract be different?

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Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant to move the thread to a 'Sticky' eventually (if adds value) - I wasn't intending to attach anything. Just going to create a thread about renting SVO that includes contract text - and 'best' practices/guidances (oops - the goes work-lingo).

On the paypal website it describes the conditions necessary to qualify for seller protection:

Item is a tangible good.
Only physical goods are covered by the Seller Protection Policy. Intangible goods, such as services or items delivered electronically (e.g., software, MP3s, eBooks), are not covered.

I always interpreted this to mean timeshare rentals are not covered. Do you think they are covered?