Sticky - Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation

No - Gonzalez and Gonzalez is a Mexican company and they charge an upfront fee. We don't recommend anyone that charges an upfront fee, plus you will not have the protection of American law, if you have problems with them.

I would call Profeco immediately - their phone number is in the brochure in the first post.

Clarifying

Just to be absolutely clear, this is what I have deduced based on my own interactions, info on this site, and info on external sites:

G&G ie "Gonzalez and Gonzales" and "Mexican Time Share Solutions" and "timesharescam.com" are all one and the same. My assumption is that G&G are the earlier iteration and they have rebranded. It's the same people. At one time when they were G&G, Denise has evidence that they charged an up front fee. More recently with me they called themselves MTS and my copy of the contract explicitly does not charge an up front fee.

At this time, they have not come on this thread on Tug to respond to the confusion and allegations, though in the past they have posted here in other threads to say they do not charge an up front fee (though in my recollection they did not deny that they did so in the past.)

Also, no one has come on TUG to post any form of review, positive or negative, that I can find. In the posted contract, there is a gag order (clause 6e) which does not appear on my contract. My contract has no gag order.

These are all the facts that I was able to assemble. If you are in a pickle, as I most certainly was, I see no harm in getting a hold of a contract yourself and reviewing it closely and with several lawyer friends if you've got them (I do and did.) This is the reason why I highlighted the clause which indicates that your agreement is governed by Mexican law, which was a concern for us.

Ultimately we lucked out and found a better solution and we did not sign our contract and we indicated to MTS that we would not be proceeding with their services.

Here are some additional pieces which you may wish to consider. I had two conversations with MTS - both times the connection was awful. I experience this type of static as well when I try to use gmail talk with my dad's computer in Hong Kong, so I suspect based on this that they use an internet based phone rather than a land line.

In our contract with Raintree, one portion stated that it was governed by the laws of Mexico, and another portion which had money owing on it (from us to Raintree) stated that it was governed by the laws of Texas. MTS stated they could cancel our contract but advised us to cancel our credit card where these additional payments would have been taken. I wrote back to clarify whether they had the ability to cancel that portion of the contract as I didn't want to get into a situation where I didn't pay and was later liable. I highlighted for them that the promissory note was governed by Texas and asked them to clarify for me what steps they would be able to take to ensure that that was cancelled too. They did not respond before I found a different solution.

Hello all,

I fell victim to Krystal in Cancun last month. [[[yup, I sure did!]]] Should have known better.

Anyhow, here's my 'twist & turn' with them:
After signing the contract with them, I came back to my hotel to did a quick search about Krystal online. Long behold, I found complaints after complaints about them (specially in this forum). Knowing I have the 5-day cancellation right, I went back to their office the next day to cancel. Well, the sales person--Stepian (the former Texas football team kicker back in the 80's), totally changed his demeanor. He said, oh no, you can't cancel. Your membership is immediately activated, remember that seperate piece paper you signed yesterday? I told him that I vaguely remember about signining something says about immediately activation of membership with RCI, etc. But nothing says I waived my 5-day cancellations. His reply was basicly reaffirming that piece of paper I signed was waiving my 5-day cancellation, if I don't like it I can sue them. At that moment I fell trapped, no other way out. So I was able to re-negociate with them with a better finance term.

It was not until I returned home, did more readings and found this thread about the REAL law/regulations about the 5-day cancellation. I am dump founded!!

So, now what?? Can anyone give me any advise of how/where I should proceed?

I read the long back-and-forth about G&G, ANYONE ACTUALLY HAS ANY SUCCESS with them? That is the kind of re-assurance would be helpful.

Also, anyone has actually gotten help or reply from Profeco? (the Mexican Government agency overlooking the Timeshare pratice) I saw one poster said she e-mail them following the instruction to file a complain, but never heard back from them.

I am looking forward to all of your replies & ideas.

I CAN SEE THERE ARE MANY KRYSTAL VICTIMS OUT THERE, any attorny interested taking on a class-action suit against them??

If you have names, dates, etc. When you were refused rescission, Profeco may go to bat for you. Rescission is your right- even in Mexico, but you have to prove to Proseco that you signed a paper waiving this right (show them a copy of it) to have a chance to prove fraud. Also, going to the sales office to cancel a contract is never a good idea. The instructions on how to rescind and where to send the letter will be buried in the very small print in your bundle of papers.

In short, go to Profeco- there's a link above here. If you can convince them there was fraud, you may get their help. Otherwise, join the throng of TUGgers who have bought from a developer and stick around and learn to use your timeshare.

For a success story, here's a link to a recent rescission: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142977

And, welcome to TUG.

Jim Ricks

Nena1234

Karen G said:

"If you are asked to sign a note that you are waiving the 5-day rescission (cancellation) period granted by Mexico (in case you change your mind about the purchase) that waiver is a fraud...."



Here is a brochure from Profeco, the Mexican consumer protection agency about important things to consider BEFORE attending a timeshare presentation in Mexico.

The best protection of your rights and responsibilities on any contract is to take your time to completely read and fully understand all the provisions of the agreement. Do not rely on what a salesman tells you because only what is written in the contract will be enforceable. Don't be rushed or pressured to sign something you don't understand. If you feel you are being rushed or pressured to sign, that's a big clue to stop and walk away.

Click to expand...

IN MARCH I PURCHASE 380 WEEKS ALL INCLUSIVE AT ROYAL CANCUN! SALESMAN ASHORE ME ONLY $79.00 PER DAY! TWO MONTHS LATER I GOT REVISED NEW RATES $269.00 PER DAY! LOL

dollydaydream said:

Hello again,

I am so confused, should I sign up with Gonzalez and Gonzalez. I do not mind spending $1500 US more, because I feel a fool already..............[my letter of recission that I faxed was faxed by me the wrong way up !!!!!!!]


The info I have from G & G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions has this unusual demand/instruction..........what does this mean? Please if anyone knows, I need to do something quickly. The contract has no address on it which is strange.

Dolly



"Thank you for your interest in working with us to cancel your timeshare contract. Please find attached a contract for the provision of our services. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you wish to proceed, please print out the contract, sign it and fax or email it back to our office.
Best wishes,


[contact info. deleted - we don't want to give them free advertising on TUG - DeniseM Moderator]

P.S.We look forward to work with you to achieve the results you need. However, you are not our client until our firm gives you a written statement of acceptance and all documentation requested is provided and the contract is completed. Until and unless this occurs, you shall not give notice of our relationship to the Timeshare Developer or any of their subsidiaries or agents."

Click to expand...

Dolly dream,

The email Jennifer sent you is the one that has attached the contract for our services. I think the question you might be referring is the "P.S." part. Let me explain, some people, before hiring our services, contact the resort and make requests and treats and claim we are their lawyers with the hopes it will be easier for them to cancel. We believe this is not fair and this is the reason why we sent this note.

I hope this clarifies your question.

DeniseM said:

No - Gonzalez and Gonzalez is a Mexican company and they charge an upfront fee. We don't recommend anyone that charges an upfront fee, plus you will not have the protection of American law, if you have problems with them.

I would call Profeco immediately - their phone number is in the brochure in the first post.

Click to expand...

Hi Denisse,

Again, Gonzalez and Gonzalez does NOT charge any upfront fee or any fee during the process. If you wish, call and act a client anytime and request a consultation. You will see for yourself that what we claim as far as "Contingency basis" in our website is real.

Regards,
Joe.

Contract

DeniseM said:

Barbara - Do you know what date that contract was received?

Click to expand...

This contract is from may 2009.

I invite you to contact Gonzalez and Gonzalez and act as a client and you will see for yourself in the free consultation that NO upfront fees are requested.


Regards.

Jose:

1) You are referencing a post I made 6 mos. ago.

2) Even if you no longer charge an upfront fee, I cannot in good conscience recommend a company located in Mexico - if things go wrong, an American consumer has NO recourse.

3) Your advertising implies that your company is a law firm, and I noticed that in your FAQ, you try to minimize the value of Profeco, and suggest that people get legal advice, which is interesting, because no one listed on your staff page is an attorney - including yourself. Yet your webpage says:

As such, we have a team of lawyers and former timeshare salespeople who are committed to changing and rectifying this fraudulent industry, one client at a time.

Click to expand...

In fact, you posted this on TUG:

3. In what jurisdiction(s) are you licensed to practice law?
Our staff are professional negotiators and we try to settle cases outside of court as much as possible. If we need to go to court, we outsource to a set of lawyers that are licensed to practice law across Mexico.

Click to expand...

Outsource means you have no lawyers "on your team."

4) Your fees are very high - Profeco, a legitimate Mexican consumer agency is FREE.

5) Frankly, this point in your FAQ is not believable:

11. What is your success rate?

We have a 100% success cancellation rate. We put all our efforts into representing you with the highest commitment level so that we can achieve a positive outcome of your case.

Click to expand...

TUG is an advocate for owners, and you cannot use it to promote your company.

*When you use the search function, be sure you check the date of the thread/post you are replying to.

DeniseM,

Thank you for your response, I appreciate giving me the opportunity to clarify some concerns. I will write in a different color to differentiate from your text.

DeniseM said:

Jose:

1) You are referencing a post I made 6 mos. ago.

2) Even if you no longer charge an upfront fee, I cannot in good conscience recommend a company located in Mexico - if things go wrong, an American consumer has NO recourse.

There are many companies in US who claim that can cancel timeshare contracts. Of all those companies, I have yet not came across of one that has the same payment structure as ours; all of them offer a money back guarantee. I think American consumers have the best guarantee when using a service, They do not pay unless we are able to truly help them.

3) Your advertising implies that your company is a law firm, and I noticed that in your FAQ, you try to minimize the value of Profeco, and suggest that people get legal advice, which is interesting, because no one listed on your staff page is an attorney - including yourself. Yet your webpage says:

In fact, you posted this on TUG:

Outsource means you have no lawyers "on your team."

We are a timeshare consultancy company, we do outsource the services of some lawyers and we hired one on staff recently to try and coordinate our other lawyers.
Mexico is a country with 31 states and most of the timeshare scams are done in six states, Quintana Roo (Cancun), Jalisco (Vallarta), Nayarit (Nuevo Vallarta), Sinaloa (Mazatlan), Baja California Sur (Cabo and San Jose Del Cabo) and Sonora (Rocky Point). In Mexico, a lawyer needs to be an expert in the civil code for each state in order to file a law suit for timeshare fraud. This is why we need to have a lawyer in each state as an outside person otherwise we would not be able to afford all six of them or we would have to charge more for our services. FYI Our lawyers also work on a contingency payment, I think this is also a good way to ensure that our clients will have our staff truly working for them.

4) Your fees are very high - Profeco, a legitimate Mexican consumer agency is FREE.

Our fees are not high; our work requires a lot of man hours and paperwork. In fact, if you ask around you will see that other companies such as GIVE BACK TIMESHARE, TIMESHARESCAM.CO, PROFFESIONAL TIMESHARE SERIVICES, TIMESHARE PARTNERS.COM, TIMESHARECOMPLAINTS.COM charge more than
$2,000 USD to cancel a timeshare and charge an upfront fee. Our service fee depends on various factors such as whether we have to help the client get out of collections or the purchase exceeds more than five years. our fee is as low as $800 USD but rarely would exceed $2,000 USD.

You might remember The Owners Advocate who were based in the USA and still lot of people lost their money even when they offered a money back guarantee. These people came to us and we were able to help them cancel their contracts, some of them did not charged any monies at the end because they couldn´t afford them and had paid other company previously. I do not think these people had any recourse either although had used the services of an American company.

As far as PROFECO, allow me to express a few points:

A PROFECO holds an administrative nature, therefore PROFECO cannot dictate mandatory resolutions. In other words, PROFECO cannot seize property if a resort such as Grand Miramar does not reimburse the downpayment to a client who cancelled within five days. PROFECO will probably fine the resort with a fee that rarely exceeds 100 minimum wages (Mexican). That would be approximately $5,400 Pesos (around $400 USD). What many companies do is jus pay the fine rather than reimbursing the client a down payment of $XX,XXX.XX USD.

B PROFECO is a conciliator, therefore PROFECO is there to protect the rights of both the consumer and the company. but here comes the funny part. PROFECO does NOT accept verbal promises as evidence that a resort deceived a client. Usually lies from salespeople are told verbally. PROFECO only accepts a written agreeement; guess who wrote the purchase agreement?

C PROFECO is an Agency who has employees that get paid whether they resolve a case to the satisfaction of the client or not.

D Last but not least, In Mexico you can solve many things with a fifty dollar bill under a table. I do not think we need to get any deeper here.

For these and many more reasons, I truly believe it is best for people to hire the service of a professional, any professional willing to work on a contingency basis.

5) Frankly, this point in your FAQ is not believable:


TUG is an advocate for owners, and you cannot use it to promote your company.

I am no using Tub for advertising, I am legitimately defending our company reputation from being unfairly damaged.

*When you use the search function, be sure you check the date of the thread/post you are replying to.

Click to expand...

DeniseM, We are on the same boat here. I an not asking anybody to talk great about our services but rather just ask for justness and avoid "barbaragirl" (I am sure she works for Krystal KIVC) from trying to damage the reputation of our company who only tries and do the same as TUG: Educate people on timeshare fraud and help them if we can.

PS. Dont you think it is funny that the people who posted that contract from Gonzalez and Gonzalez two years old did not complained about the resort who scammed them on the first place but just us? My common sense is telling me that it is from someone who is not happy with what we are achieving and that would be a timeshare developer.

Thank you for the opportunity to clarify this.

There is no legal system in Mexico. Even the US developers hide behind Mexican law. Whomever bribes the judge the most wins the case!
From and past experience, only Profeco represents a challenge (but slow and bureaucratic) to the TS industry as they don't like the paperwork and black mark of a Profeco complaint filed against them.
Don't count on your credit card company either as they have little recourse on foreign transactions.

timeshare fraud

I am new at this so excuse me please if I am not posting correctly. I am wondering if anyone has heard of getting out of a timeshare contract when you have passed the 5 day grace period in Mexico. We did not find out we were scammed until we made the final payment and tried to make a reservation. I just sent an email to Profecto so I am waiting to hear back.

Cancel my Timeshare contract

I am considering G&G and have contacted them, while there is no upfront fees there is a stipulation that "if" they need to go to court a $2,000 court cost "fee" is required. When I asked for an address they told me that they could not give it to me out of fear of retaliation from the "timeshares". very suspicious!

Has anyone used G&G and able to get out of their contract?

There is another company in Orlando Florida : TimeShare Answers. Does any one know or heard anything about them?

Then there is the Finn group a Michigan Law firm and a Timeshare Attorney.

Does anyone have a line on what to do to cancel a contract outside the 5 day rule?

navsails said:

Does anyone have a line on what to do to cancel a contract outside the 5 day rule?

Click to expand...

The only sure way out is to sell or give away the TS. After the rescission or 'cooling off' period it is very difficult to prove that a fraudulent sale was made. The buyer was given the time allowed by law in the country of origin of the contract to back out. After that, it is a legally binding contract, as if it concerned the purchase of a car, boat, real estate or anything else. I suppose the signer could bankrupt out, but if it is shown to the BK court that s/he can actually afford the purchase- whether or not it was a wise purchase, or has value, they still will be bound to pay the debt.

The outfit(s) you have mentioned in your post don't have a good track record around TUG and few if any have had success. Far more frequently, any time up-front money is asked for and paid, it has turned out to be a scam.

Sorry for the reality check, but there it is. You are probably better off to file a grievance with Profeco. DeniseM posted a link to them for you a few last week. I'd pursue it on the grounds of your dad being aged and perhaps not having a full grasp on this situation. My words, not yours.

All the best

Jim Ricks

krystal cancun scam and G&G / MTS

I just spoke to them(G&G) today, received the contract via email and it looks like its legit. No up front fee, they cancel your contract and stop the collection agency for $999.00 You pay nothing until you receive written proof of the succesful cancelation. I think I have no choice but to place my trust in these people and hopefully save some $$$$.... unless anyone has a better solution. So far this website has helped me with information, unfortunately it does a better job for people with timeshare knowledge and not so much for people like me, after the 5 day rescission period and now in a "life changing pickle"

Krystal Cancun Scam

miroxlava said:

I just spoke to them(G&G) today, received the contract via email and it looks like its legit. No up front fee, they cancel your contract and stop the collection agency for $999.00 You pay nothing until you receive written proof of the succesful cancelation. I think I have no choice but to place my trust in these people and hopefully save some $$$$.... unless anyone has a better solution. So far this website has helped me with information, unfortunately it does a better job for people with timeshare knowledge and not so much for people like me, after the 5 day rescission period and now in a "life changing pickle"

Click to expand...

partial response from Profeco: Nuestro procedimiento es conciliatorio y nos basamos en los términos del contrato. Le informo que las promesas verbales no serán válidas para el procedimiento.
"verbal promises are not valid for the procedure" So basically they can only help if the TS provider defaults on a written contract clause or something like that, but for us scam victims of verbal misrepresentation we are SCREWED

also, heads up biennial means every other year, not twice a year like the salesperson lead us to beleive, so in fact I paid about $15,000 for 25 year membership, thats $1,250 a week plus $850 maintenance fee... do the math, this is a ripoff!!!!

Contact Profeco

Contact Profeco... I am sure someone already has an extensive discussion/explaination of who they are. It's a government agency--probably the most reliable resource for us--the foreigners. They do not require any fee, and act as a mediator between parties. You don't even have to make any trip back to Mexico. They will appear in the meetings on your behalf.

Profeco

I have just received my third hearing results from Profeco and nothing much changed from the first two hearings except that Krystal is offering more weeks the first year visit and a further explanation of the membership and cancellation of the contract. I don't care to go back for one week, so I sure don't want three weeks like the last hearing on Oct 20th offered. They will have one more hearing on my behalf in January and then I can take it up with the Mexican Tribunal (whoever they are). Each time I respond to Profeco to let them know I am not interested in any weeks, that I just would like a refund from Krystal, I get more weeks offered. Not sure I am getting any where. Hopefully the last hearing I don't get offered 4 weeks. I got sucked into Krystal in May 2010, 1st hearing was March 2011 -krystal offering one more week, 2nd hearing was in June 2011 -Krystal offering two more weeks, 3rd hearing in Oct 2011 -Krystal offering three weeks - I haven't acceptted any of those offers. Thats not want I originally asked for. Now I just started getting the maintenance fee bills.... the one where I was told would not be any unless I would use the week. Haha.... They got enough money from me....Guess i will be ruining my credit.

Krystal Cancun Scam

Just got off the phone with a rep from American Express, after disputing the down payments (almost $10,000) they have sided with the "merchant" claiming that they have to abide by the contract and it's verbage. All the verbal promises, misrepresentations and fraudulent claims made to us and past "victims" do not hold any weight for us cardholders. I used my American Express card thinking I had protections against this kind of stuff, I even called them within 10 days of signing the contract to dispute the charges, they sent me letters stating that the dispute had been resolved in our favor and weeks later they change their mind. I will have to just pay off this credit card and close the account. Also, I do not see any other way out of this so I will sign with G&G and hopefully save on the other half, cancel the contract and promissory note and stop the monthly billing and maintenance fees. I will keep you posted.

George (Miroxlava)

Krystal Scamming

This is one of the reasons they continue doing what they do. They can get away with it and they know it, because they been doing it for years. Credit card companies are supporting them. They probably don't got a problem with just canceling the contract because at least they have the initial down payments, so they will always be ahead. Seems like we just have to chalk it up to one hell of an expensive vacation to Mexico.

Class-Action

OK, I have seen there are several of us fell victim to Krystal, and we all have the same story about their scam. Is there anyone, or some advise, of how to get a class-action suite against Krystal? Any of the moderators have give some input or referral would be great!

We dont know what to do

We have attended sales presentations in the past with other companies & felt like we knew what to expect. We were at hotel in Cancun and attended the sales presentation. We were asked for our identification so that they could be copied and placed into a file to prevent us from returning to receive gifts if we declined the option to buy. We declined their deals several times & asked for our IDs to be returned to us. The salesman continued to try to sweeten the deals, and just ignored us when we asked for our IDs. He would start asking questions or try to divert us in some way. This happened several times. We became very aggrivated and I was so upset that I started crying like a baby. I felt trapped! I did not know what to do or how to get our IDs back so we could get out of there! A lady came & started going over the purchase agreement and she showed us the part where it stated we had 5 days to cancel. After she was done, we again said it wasn't a deal for us & we wanted our IDs. Again, we were ignored. Finally, we asked for a few minutes alone & after a little more diversion, the salesman finally left us (all the while keeping a "hawk's eye" on us). We agreed to sign the agreement, get our IDs, leave, and to cancel the contract as soon as we got home. After the sales presentation, the salesman had us transferred from our hotel to the "member's only" resort for the duration of our stay (we were told this was in exchange for the free tour that we were unable to use as gift for attending the sales presentation). The day we got home, I sent 2 certified cancellation letters via express mail. Now the company says we can not cancel our contract because we were transferred to the "members only" resort, therefore, we took benefit of the membership & were "immediately activated". Now we are searching for help & facts. We don't know what rights we have. We are extremely upset that we were kept there against our will until we gave in, this is where we dove into an unknown abiss & did not know how to get out! Any advice or help of any kind would be greatly appreciated!

in addition

I sent a message to Profeco a couple of weeks ago, but have not yet heard anything from them. I am not sure how else to try to get them on board. I can not navigae their website and forms easily because I do not speak or read Spanish. My translator helps, but only to a certain degree.

If you sent them the rescision

within the correct time frame, you have cancelled.

Contact your credit card and dispute the charge.

Continue to tell them in writing that you have cancelled and with not be continuing to pay them.
The letter should be factual not emotional, repeat that you have cancelled and that according to Mexican Law you can not waive your rescission period, so their claim that you were Immediately activated is not legal. Spell it all out step by step leaving out the emotions.


The Mexican law is clear, you cancel, they have to honor it.

Now, sometimes it takes a while for them to realize that you are serious.

Start posting how you were taken advantage of using the name of the timeshare anywhere you can find to post. Facebook, Redweeks, etc

Greg

Thank you

aliikai2: Thank you for your reply. Any additional info is greatly appreciated!
Facts: we signed contract on Nov 18, 2011. We notified the company of our intent and desire to cancel on Nov 22, 2011 by phone & email. Of the written notifications sent: the first cancellation letter was received to Miami address listed in contract on Nov 23,2011. The 2nd cancellation letter was received to Cancun address in contract on Nov 29, 2011. We received our first communication from a "legal representative" with the company on Nov 22, 2011. There is no way that the company can truthfully state that they were unaware of our intent and desire to cancel within the 5 days. Thier legal representative has not contacted us again, the only person within their company that is contacting us right now is a "financial advisor" that keeps trying to get us to agree to a 2 month extention on our payments. We continue to tell her that we are not interested in any new agreements with thier company and that we stand firm on cancelling this contract with them. She just continues to tell us that we waived our rights by transferring and that the only way to stop legal action is to agree to her new terms. My first question is: if we do not have the right to cancel, then why are you trying so hard to get us to agree to something new?
Thanks & again we do appreciate any more info provided!