[2008] Festiva is now managing my resort, how bad is it going to get?

I own a couple of weeks at a former Peppertree resort in North Carolina. Festiva took over the management from Wyndham of Blue Ridge Village after buying all of the Peppertree (and I think Equivest) resorts. I figured what the heck, new management, new sales pressure, new people trying to recoup their investment. Since I have fixed weeks ( which I like) at Blue Ridge Village, I figured it won't hurt me what ever changes they make. I searched Festiva here on TUG and found that there is a law suit against Festiva at the Atrium in St Maarten. Supposedly they raised MF's at the Atrium over 50% the first year and then again the second year while trying to change contracts to the detriment of current owners.

This scared me so I called a board member today and asked if Festiva has mentioned raising our MF's, and I was told they were planning on upgrades and the MF's will increase. They also got a Festiva employee on the board which is rarely good.

In addition on the Festiva web site it said that a couple if the properties they purchased has additional land where they could build additional units, and BRV is one of those. This will add more people to the pool, tennis courts, fishing on the lake etc. I asked the board member if she had heard anything and she said they are planning on building additional units. I would have thought the current owners would own all the property and common areas since the resort was sold out years ago, but apparently not.

I am asking for input from anyone who has experience with Festiva taking over their resort to see if I need to sell and get out before they raise the MF's by a ridiculous amount. The Atrium could be an isolated event, but I am scared that it is actually Festiva's standard operating procedure. Hopefully some TUGGERS have some knowledge of Festiva.

I own a couple weeks at Tamarack. As far as I know, our board is entirely owner-driven. Based on their campaign platforms for election, they seem like a pretty reasonable bunch---wanting to keep unit quality up, but to do so prudently. As the management contract is (hopefully) under control of the board, I would imagine that mangement fees jacked up quickly might lead to Festiva getting kicked to the curb as the manager, even if they still have development rights. That could be rose-colored glasses talking though.

Locally, things don't seem to have changed much (and they seem to be quicker at verifying my weeks for deposit, etc. than Wyndham was.) I have noticed that transfers take a LOOONG time, though. I had to call Legal at Festiva a few times to get a transfer in before the flexchange period made the newly-purchased week more or less worthless to deposit this year.

Despite the incessant "convert to points" schtick, I get a better vibe from Festiva than I do Wyndham.

I also own @ Tamarack.I am awfully concerned with the financial status.
a) spl ass 2 years ago since 20% of the people not paying MF's.
B) Little or no info since as to status of those units-are people paying?
c) Budget that they send us "pretends" all people are paying MF's
D) 2008 budget they sent us shows an apparent $400K loss--
E) Can't tell how much we are paying Festiva -- the budget categories were changed from prior years.

F) Those "nice people" on the board don't seem to have a clue as to how much in the hole we are.

Regarding Festiva -I've seen bad press here about spl assessments (2yrs MF) @ the Atrium in St Maaarten.

I don't recall seeing the loss in the budget that I read. Then again, I probably didn't read it that closely .

Things aren't always as they appear

tombo said:

This scared me so I called a board member today and asked if Festiva has mentioned raising our MF's, and I was told they were planning on upgrades and the MF's will increase. They also got a Festiva employee on the board which is rarely good.

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Sometimes having a Developer representative on a Board is the lessor of two evils. If they control enough votes they may be able to elect whoever they want (although often limited by law to a minority) - not good. But letting them have a seat gets their voice heard (they ARE an owner after all) while keeping the individual owner base firmly in charge.

tombo said:

In addition on the Festiva web site it said that a couple if the properties they purchased has additional land where they could build additional units, and BRV is one of those. This will add more people to the pool, tennis courts, fishing on the lake etc. I asked the board member if she had heard anything and she said they are planning on building additional units. I would have thought the current owners would own all the property and common areas since the resort was sold out years ago, but apparently not.

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This is a common misconception. The property tends to be turned over to the Association as the approved or permitted buildings or common areas are completed. If a section has plans for a building or a pool or whatever but it isn't built for some reason most likely that parcel remains the property & under control of the Developer or their successors. It is up to the Association Board to monitor those types of parcels and find out what the plans are or take action for the Association to obtain the ownership and/or use rights. Often owners and even some Boards aren't aware that not all the property belongs to them.

In some cases it can be extremely bad like Bluetree in Orlando where the clubhouse & checkin were never given over to the Association and Wastegate was able to come in and take over the building - throwing the owners out! They had to use a trailer for check in for years and then build a new building. Nice guy that slimy Seagull, huh? Always out for the owners.

Haven't heard much positive about Festiva operations or management so hopefully your Board is on top of the change and stand ready to act regarding management if needed.

Well, how was it when it was Peppertree?

If it was anything like Peppertree here in Branson, it likely couldn't be any worse.

When it was Peppertree (and then Wyndham), the resort was rated Gold Crown and the MF's inc taxes were around $500 per year for a 2 bed room. Since Festiva came last year the resort was lowered to Siver Crown and Festiva has already said that they need to do some renovations and assessments will be necessary. The amount of the proposed assessments will (I assume) be revealed at the owner's meeting this summer. I would not be shocked if they wanted to raise our MF's too.

From what I read Festiva assessed an amount equalling 200% of MF's as soon as they took over the Atrium resort and increased MF's by 10 %. This is what scares me the most. As far as them changing my weeks by going to points, it will never happen because I will never swap my fixed weeks to points even if they offer to do it for free.

I remember Festiva's press release which also claimed that they ''bought'' Outer Banks Beach Club I and II, which was laughable. These resorts were built by Peppertree, but after Fairfield (which later became Wyndham) took over from Peppertree-Equivest, the homeowner-controlled HOA boards booted out Fairfield as manager, dropped the ''Peppertree'' from the resort names, and hired well-regarded SPM Management of Myrtle Beach, an independent management company, not a developer/manager, to take over management. All the people I know who own there are very satisfied with SPM which has done a good job in management.

While OBBC I and II acted when Fairfield showed up, rather than waiting for Festiva to come along, maybe it is now time for other former Peppertree resorts with homeowner-controlled boards to follow in their footsteps. Having a developer also wearing a management hat is not a good thing in timeshare, as the potential conflicts of interest are too great.

Tombo, your board is still in charge. Carolinian is telling you that it is the board's decision as to who manages your property. You might consider taking a board position and work toward getting people on the board that will have the best interests of the owners in mind.

One thing great about timeshare resorts that are built is they have options. You obviously feel very strongly about this, which is how I was at Twin Rivers, so a board position sounds like it could be in your future.

What's more, the management company can't dictate budget, upgrades, etc---that's the board's decision. That is, unless the management company happens to have a majority on the board, which in this case they do not.

bnoble said:

What's more, the management company can't dictate budget, upgrades, etc---that's the board's decision. That is, unless the management company happens to have a majority on the board, which in this case they do not.

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A management company would have no control whatsoever, because they are hired and chosen by the board. The HOA would own all inventory and has control over it. Any board that allows a management company to do anything more than day-to-day operations is not doing its job.

It would be nice to hear what the board at Blue Ridge Village was thinking, when they wanted a developer as a management company. I wouldn't have done it, but there must have been a reason for it.

VRI has been getting some major criticisms lately, which is ridiculous because the board decides what work is important, not the management company, who can only propose upgrades and present proposals.

Never owned at a Wastegate resort, huh?!

Mr. S picks the board; the board hires CFI Management; CFI Management runs the resort, Mr. S. owns/runs CFI Management.

& most owners look the other way, hoping for the best.


:hysterical:

rickandcindy23 said:

A management company would have no control whatsoever, because they are hired and chosen by the board.

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I agree with everyone here, the developer and the mgt company should not be one and the same. I don't know exactly how it happened, whether Festiva bullied them into doing it, or whether the board could see nothing wrong with what is an obvious conflict of interest.

I know Festiva is extremely aggressive and downright rude when they are trying to get you to come to their sales presentation. I went to try and get some information from Festiva when I was at the resort in December and they said I had to go to a Festiva "meeting" to find out about upcoming changes. I agreed, showed up at the agreed upon time, and they said where is your wife. I said she wasn't coming and they informed me that I couldn't talk to them without my wife. I said tell me alone or forget it. They said they couldn't and if she didn't come I would miss out on some important information. Later that day my cell phone rang and the woman asked me when could my wife and myself come to a "meeting". I told her never and she actually yelled at me and said that I ruined their schedule by showing up without my wife. I told her if I was going to a sales presentation that I should have been told so up front, I was told it was an informational meeting and I didn't need my wife at an informational meeting. She was yelling and irate and I just hung up on her.

What I have read about Festiva at the Atrium doesn't sound good, and my limited experience with them was horrible. I hope to make the annual meeting but it is a 9 hour drive each way and the meeting starts at 2 pm on Sat and I have to work until at least 5 pm on Friday. I think I might call the board president and see why (or how) Festiva became both the developer and the management company. From what I read they are now the Mangement company for most if not all of the former Peppertree locations they bought. It might have been in the purchase contract that they would be the management company although that doesn't sound like something they could have placed in the contract. Something is fishy because if any member of the board had researched Festiva I can't imagine them being allowed to manage the resort.

Carolinian said:

I remember Festiva's press release which also claimed that they ''bought'' Outer Banks Beach Club I and II, which was laughable. These resorts were built by Peppertree, but after Fairfield (which later became Wyndham) took over from Peppertree-Equivest, the homeowner-controlled HOA boards booted out Fairfield as manager, dropped the ''Peppertree'' from the resort names, and hired well-regarded SPM Management of Myrtle Beach, an independent management company, not a developer/manager, to take over management. All the people I know who own there are very satisfied with SPM which has done a good job in management

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Festiva's press release and website also say that they manage Laurel Point in Gatlinburg, TN and Peppertree By the Sea in North Myrtle Beach, SC which is not true. Both of these resorts are managed by SPM Resort, Inc. Each resort has owners that belong to the Club but the major are owners with deeded weeks and their own boards.

Knowing an owner at another Branson resort that Festiva took over, I know that she is not happy with the way they treated her, pretty much trying to intimidate money out of her by saying she would not get what she had already paid for if she did not ante up.

And I would like to know the truth about why another company is now doing Stormy Point, not Festiva.

http://www.consumer.ago.mo.gov/Know...1=245 S WILDWOOD&addr2=&city=BRANSON&state=MO

http://www.bransoncabinrentals.net/details_nixon_suite.htm

Nothing unusual about that. That's the same pitch most RCI Points resorts are spewing---sort of the Spanish Inquisition of the timeshare world, Convert or Die!

JLB said:

And I would like to know the truth about why another company is now doing Stormy Point, not Festiva.

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It looks like Trading Places now has Stormy Point even though it still shows up on Festiva's website too.
http://www.stormypointvillage.com/

What is the 'Summer Winds family of resorts' mentioned here?
http://www.stormypointvillage.com/owners/family.asp

JLB, is Stormy Point still expanding?

I'm fairly certain Trading Places is not the name of the company that owns what is now going up at Stormy Point (it still was last time we wandered by) and the common amenities. An employee from there posted about it on the Branson Forum and I tried to find that thread yesterday. I found that Trading Places site, too.

OK, here it is, and it explains why the Summerwinds:

http://www.1branson.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33963&highlight=stormy+point&page=2

While yur there, read that whole thread to see what the assembled mass thinks of TSing.

gravityrules said:

It looks like Trading Places now has Stormy Point even though it still shows up on Festiva's website too.
http://www.stormypointvillage.com/

What is the 'Summer Winds family of resorts' mentioned here?
http://www.stormypointvillage.com/owners/family.asp

JLB, is Stormy Point still expanding?

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While reading those Festiva MO AG links, it occurred me that you could insert just about any retail TS sales operation, but, especially, the slimey, sleazy, scummy, scammy Wastegate. They have just recently started laying it on thick, with $39 specials like the 50000 or so they run through their Orlando vacation mill.

Like Festiva, and others, they will likely find that the MO AG is not as coddling to that sort of operation as the FL officials are. But, since MO AG Jay Nixon is heavy into his campaign for Governor, which I give him 3 to 1 odds of winning, perhaps WG has timed their efforts well, for their sake but not their victims.

JLB, that's a lot of reading to get to a couple of nuggets regarding Festiva! So Festiva developed and sold some units at Stormy Point, while another developer (Summer Winds) is still actively developing/selling and owns the common amenities. Interesting that the reason given for Festiva 'getting the boot' is a lack of customer service. Apparently Summer Winds is associated with Trading Places for exchange and for management as well. So how do these 'dual-ownership' situations work? Are there 2 HOAs? Is there one management group or 2? Is there one sales team or 2? Does the 'Festiva HOA' end up paying 'Summer Winds HOA' for use of common amenities? Just curious how this typically works ...

I will attend the Annual Meeting. We already have reservations for the weekend. Email me privately.

Becky

My fault. I meant to give the post number.

On the other hand, I meant for y'all to read that entire thread.

Concerning dual ownership, since Wastegate bought out Grandvista here, we have that situation at the former Emerald Point and Cedar Ridge.

At Branson Yacht Club there are units sold by two different companies, Grandvista and Escapes, with WG now controlling Grandvista, and the entire resort still being operated by the original owner, the Heckman family of Rock Lane Resort.

gravityrules said:

JLB, that's a lot of reading to get to a couple of nuggets regarding Festiva! ...

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The truth about Stormy Point

Regarding the situation at Stormy Point about the Summerwinds/Festiva relationship, below is from a letter that Festiva sent to all of their Branson owners about the change: (Also, while the check-in area has moved, all resort amenities are still available to Festiva owners).

Monday, January 07, 2008

Dear Festiva Resorts Owner;

We would like to take this time to make you aware of certain changes that have recently transpired in Branson.

Festiva Resorts has had a five year relationship with Summerwinds Resort Services, Inc., in which Summerwinds provided several services for Festiva at our Branson properties, including sales and marketing. Festiva and Summerwinds have reached an agreement to end that relationship, which simply means that they will no longer be providing those services to Festiva Resorts.

This change does not impact your membership in any way. You are still a member with Festiva Resorts and will continue to receive all of your current benefits through Festiva Resorts as well as any additional benefits that we may offer in the future. You will still contact the Festiva Resorts Owner Services department for reservation requests, maintenance fee payments and general usage information.

We wanted to inform you of this change simply to clarify any confusion that may occur on your next visit to the resort. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the Festiva Resorts Owner Services department at 866-933-7848.

We thank you for your time and hope you enjoy your next visit to Branson.

Kind Regards,

FESTIVA RESORTS

RE: Festiva's acquisition of Peppertree, etc.

jphillips131 said:

Festiva's press release and website also say that they manage Laurel Point in Gatlinburg, TN and Peppertree By the Sea in North Myrtle Beach, SC which is not true. Both of these resorts are managed by SPM Resort, Inc. Each resort has owners that belong to the Club but the major are owners with deeded weeks and their own boards.

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Actually, the press release does not claim that Festiva manages those resorts, it says that they were "involved in the acquisition." As part of the acquisition from Wyndham, there were unit intervals that were acquired by Festiva at several resorts (including Laurel Point, PBS and OBBC) that are not managed by Festiva Management Group (FMG).

This is the link to the press release on Festiva Resort's website:

http://www.festivaresorts.com/Industry_Release.pdf

An owner told me that it was said at the annual Blue Ridge Village meeting that having 3 out of 5 board members who are Festiva employees is irrelevant since Festive owns 80% of phase 2, the newest section, and can do what they want anyway because you (Festiva) own the vote.

First I can see nothing good from having a Home OWNERS Association allowing the developer's employees on the board. There is conflict of interest since they can't represent the owners while being employed by Festiva. Secondly how can you have 80% of the votes in Phase 2 by purchasing a sold out resort? Did Festiva take the votes away from all points owners? What kind of resort sells points as a wonderful thing and then the developer votes for all the owners who own points, doing whatever they want regardless of the OWNER'S WISHES. One of the head officers (I believe the president) of Festiva stood at the annual meeting and said we can do what we want, we have 80% of the votes in phase 2. How can that be? This resort was sold out when you bought it (I own a fixed week in phase 2 so I must be part of the 20%), how can you buy 80% of the vote?

Every resort Festiva goes into seems to receive the same treatment. Festiva wants to renovate the resort most owners are perfectly happy with by having the owners pay for the renovations festiva wants to help their sales. Festiva needs the glitter and flash of things like granite counter tops to sell your high dollar vacation club. I don't have granite counter tops in my home, I sure don't need them in my vacation unit, especially if I am getting assessed for it. I like BRV just like it is, it doesn't need any renovations. None of us bought a Marriott type resort, Festiva shouldn't try to turn it into one by fleecing the owners.


Most if not all resorts Festiva begins to manage can't operate any longer on the MF's the previous mgt company seemed to operate just fine with. A good mgt company reduces costs while continuing to provide quality services. If Festiva is unable to operate BRV on the current maintenance fees and without taking money from our reserves, we need to hire a more efficient mgt company. Obviously Wyndham handled it just fine for several years without raising the fees, why can't Festiva?

At the meeting it was said that Festiva would take back weeks that owners can't afford to keep if MF's increase and there are assessments. Duh! You increase the costs of owning, thereby running off owners, and you end up with free weeks to sell for $15,000 or $20,000. The resort is renovated by owners who love the resort and pay the assessments and increased MF's while Festiva ends up with many weeks to sell for free.

I will be shocked if the only law suits Festiva has in the next few years are the ones in The Atrium in St Maarten and in Branson MO.

Thanks for coming to the forum and I look forward to your rebuttal.