[2008] Sandcastle Shift to "Festiva" Points [merged]

Do not pay to convert to Festiva points. These points are almost worthless (I have seen several Festiva points weeks for sale on e-bay and none ever got a bid) and once you convert to Festiva points you will no longer own anything.You will simply be a member of their club, obligated to pay whatever MF's and assesments they deem necessary, but with no real ownership and no vote.You will have all of the obligations that come with ownership but none of the rights that owners have. Festiva will own your week and vote your week in block to levy assessments, elect HOA board members, and to vote themselves in as the management company. They took over one of my favorite resorts and they are trying very hard to assess everyone to upgrade the resort so they can more easily sell their points with granite counters, flat screen TV's etc. Check out how much they have raised MF's at Church Street Inn in Charleston and their Atrium St Maarten resort. A group of Atrium owners have a class action law suit against Festiva for trying to take away some rights and for increasing MF's at a higher rate than allowed in their contract at their resort since Festiva purchased it. They also got sued and aettled with the Missouri Attorney Generals office for unfair and misleading sales tactics.

There was a Festiva rep answering questions on another thread and here is one of her responses: "To answer the concern about the board being picked by owners and Festiva casting votes as opposed to Adventure Club members, our Adventure Club members do not actually own deeded real estate at any of our resorts; rather, they have a 40 year club membership. Therefore, they are not a part of a specific property's HOA." The thread is very long but worth reading. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70318

Several posts mention Festiva 'acquiring' or 'owning' this resort or others. Isn't this a sold-out resort that is controlled by the owners through an HOA? How did Festiva gain control of the HOA?

Actual resort "acquistion" vs. a controlling majority influence...

gravityrules said:

Several posts mention Festiva 'acquiring' or 'owning' this resort or others. Isn't this a sold-out resort that is controlled by the owners through an HOA? How did Festiva gain control of the HOA?

Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, Festiva can "own" only unsold weeks (if any) which they purchase, foreclosed weeks, and those weeks which they can cajole unwitting deeded owners out of, thereby making those (...now former) deeded owners "Festiva Adventure Club members" instead. That said, it's not unthinkable that Festiva could still become a statistical majority influence at the facility (hence the current aggressive marketing campaign, undoubtedly seeking to accomplish exactly that very objective).

One really and truly has to wonder why any deeded owner with even half a brain would voluntarily take the regressive, backward step of voluntarily forfeiting their deeded ownership --- and even PAYING to do so.

I think the cautionary tale here is for HOA/BOD's to really think through the future implications of entering into a deal like the one here. Up front, you definitely can see how a HOA might view Festiva as a godsend - particularly if the resort has a large number of weeks without owners (foreclosed, or deeded back, etc).

Selling them at a bulk rate to someone like Festiva, and providing them with access of your members certainly solves the immediate problem. But in long run, what you really are doing is selling them control of the resort.

theo said:

The topic of this particular ongoing thread is actually the Sandcastle Resort located in Provincetown, MA.

With due respect, if you want to initiate a new discussion about an entirely different resort in Mashpee, it would be much better noticed by (more appropriately) starting a new thread on your new "Southcape" subject --- instead of hijacking this Sandcastle thread...

Click to expand...

So sorry, I was only trying to alert the Users' Group to the same thing going on at Southcape, not trying to hijack the discussion.

Keep this discussion going and I will keep the Southcape discussion going as long as I have more info to contribute about Festiva Adventure Club, Outfield Marketing, New England Vacation Services, etc.

I wonder how many Sandcastle owners are planning to attend this year's April 25 meeting? As owners, will we have any real voting power?

Letter from Cliff Hagberg

This is a scanned email attachment so it might not work:
Letter from Cliff Hagberg [final].docx (4195KB)

No, it doesn't work but if you want me to email it to you, I can do so. Meanwhile I have reproduced it on page one of the Southcape Resort discussion: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=668326#post668326

It may be eeriily similar if not identical to the letter that Sandcastle interval owners received!

Sou13 said:

Letter from Cliff Hagberg

I have reproduced it on page one of the Southcape Resort discussion: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=668326#post668326

It may be eeriily similar if not identical to the letter that Sandcastle interval owners received!

Click to expand...

WOW!

If you replace South Cape with Sandcastle, the letter you reproduced on the South Cape thread reads almost word for word like the Sandcastle letter I received from Cliff. Amazing that two unaffiliated resorts would have the same "problems," which of coarse Cliff is working hard to address. I guess this will be handy info to have when it's time to go to the AG's office.

Corky said:

I wonder how many Sandcastle owners are planning to attend this year's April 25 meeting? As owners, will we have any real voting power?

Click to expand...

I'm going, and bringing a tape recorder. Everything said should be for the record, right?

Plan to bring a tape recorder when I go to Sandcastle on vacation too. Want to be ready for my sales, um I mean resort status meeting presented by Festiva. If I can't tape the sales meeting, I'm not going. Well maybe I will, but only to ask questions and cause trouble.

Get copies of the letters they sent the owners at Church Street Inn in Charleston and the Atrium in St Maarten when they took over those resorts, because they sound almost identical also.

Festiva seems to come into every resort, announce that the MF's will not cover expenses, then they raise MF's. Then every resort they gain control of is announced to be in a sad shape of disrepair and must be upgraded immediatelly, so they must assess. In addition, every resort they gain control of has been operating with no reserves for years (according to them) which is unacceptable, so they must assess for that too. Why does Festiva insist on only buying resorts that are in shambles, that have no reserves, who's MF's are inadequate, and who need assessments and MF increases to even survive one more year?

When Festiva takes over I would suggest making a call to say goodbye or write a farewell letter to all of your favorite office managers and front desk people. Tell them that you have enjoyed seeing them for the last decade and tell them that you appreciate the great job they have done because Festiva will get rid of all long term employees who are loyal to the owners and replace them with employees loyal to Festiva. They don't want anyone working at the resort who would tell owners what things are occuring regarding finances, expenses, expenditures, etc. IMO. Your long term employees are on borrowed time. Their life will be made miserable so that they will quit, or they will find a reason to fire them.

Good luck with the attorney general. The only thing that will stop them is being hit in the pocketbook IMO.

Would it be useful if everyone contacted asked first for a copy of the entire budget of the resort?
Anita

PClapham said:

Would it be useful if everyone contacted asked first for a copy of the entire budget of the resort?
Anita

Click to expand...

I don't think Festiva would want to present that info. Heck, people who have went to sales meetings and asked for the presentation in writing, were told NO!

I think the most useful thing owners can do, is remain owners. If Festiva can't get enough people to fork over their deeded property, maybe they will go away.

Personally, I like my place at Sandcastle and enjoy it as my home port. I wouldn't want to be an adventure club member, and end up who knows where each year. Don't get me wrong, we do our share of RCI trades, but also enjoy having Sandcaslte as our main vacation destination.

Wouldn't being told "no" to a request for the budget, especially to multiple people, be grounds for a letter to the attorney general of Massachusetts?
Anita

I hope so!

PClapham said:

Wouldn't being told "no" to a request for the budget, especially to multiple people, be grounds for a letter to the attorney general of Massachusetts?
Anita

Click to expand...

We at Soutcape were promised a copy of the budget. What we got instead was a $400 "special assessment" http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667167#post667167

Sou13 said:

We at Soutcape were promised a copy of the budget. What we got instead was a $400 "special assessment" http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667167#post667167

Click to expand...

Welcome to Festiva. They are going to give Wastegate a run for their money to see who wins the award for the worst timeshare organization in existence. Westgate had a huge head start, but Festiva is rapidly closing the gap.

"terms And Conditions"

I've managed to copy the TERMS AND CONDITIONS for membership in the Festiva Adventure Club and will email them upon request.

tombo said:

Why does Festiva insist on only buying resorts that are in shambles, that have no reserves, who's MF's are inadequate, and who need assessments and MF increases to even survive one more year?

Click to expand...

Because those resorts are the cheapest!
Charles

CharlesS said:

Because those resorts are the cheapest!
Charles

Click to expand...

I have a different opinion. In my opinion the resorts they gain control of are operating just fine on their current MF's. Checks aren't bouncing and bills are being paid. All are in good shape, maybe not Gold Crown, but in good shape. All have some sort of reserves.The letters they send the owners at the resorts they take over are simply generic imaginary scare tactics to raise MF's and assess IMO. I think they raise MF's to line their pockets and pay their Mgt company, and I think that they assess to fleece the owners even more.They assess to upgrade the resorts at the owner's expense so they can sell their points easier and for higher prices. Would these resorts that Festiva took over (which have operated in the black for decades without Festiva's help) folded or filed bankruptcy in the near future if Festiva hadn't come? Not in my opinion.

More links

If you click on the link in my signature, it will take you to the letter from Cliff Hagberg that we Southcape Resort owners received in October, 2009. If you continue to page 3 you will find links to more unhappy Festiva members, posted by tombo.

Make that October, 2008!

Sou13 said:

If you click on the link in my signature, it will take you to the letter from Cliff Hagberg that we Southcape Resort owners received in October, 2009. If you continue to page 3 you will find links to more unhappy Festiva members, posted by tombo.

Click to expand...

I don't seem able to edit the above post, so please note that I meant October, 2008!

Email Answered!

The by laws are not in a form we can email to you easily but I have attached a link that will take you to them.
www.southcaperesort.com/masterdeed.html

The trustees are Clifford Hagberg, Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks and we can all be reached in care of the resort.
I have also attached a copy of the 2009 Operating Budget
Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.
Cliff Hagberg

Posted to the wrong discussion

Sou13 said:

The by laws are not in a form we can email to you easily but I have attached a link that will take you to them.
www.southcaperesort.com/masterdeed.html

The trustees are Clifford Hagberg, Steven Lamantia and Thomas C. Franks and we can all be reached in care of the resort.
I have also attached a copy of the 2009 Operating Budget
Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.
Cliff Hagberg

Click to expand...

Somehow I posted this to the wrong discussion and the moderator didn't delete it. But you need it as much as we do, so let's hope it doesn't get deleted.

They came and went,

So we got a few calls after canceling the meeting, and I said they could come over again. But because my better half was not here the guy had nothing to say and was a little miffed we were not both there. Funny, I mean if it was a great deal without any pressure why would they care if only one partner was around.

But he did say I would be getting an assessment charge in the near future and I could still use RCI to trade my week, then left.

What is so secret, cannot be above board if they just don’t lay it out for everyone to read.

No hot cocoa for me!

"Special Assessment"

If the same thing happens to you as has happened to us at Southcape, Outfield Marketing will keep its promise and you can expect to receive a "Special Assessment" just to scare you into converting your deeded weeks!

I have started a discussion of Festiva on TUG at http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=684782#post684782

This is not the time to polish up a gem

I think this is not the time to fix up Sand Castle, the economy is not at its best and folks are trying to use their money for more useful items. If the corp. that runs this resort wants to be the partner to us all that it should be it will maintain this resort in a working fashion and make sure it keeps well within its budget and try’s its hardest to keep the owners from incurring any fees.
Soon when the economy comes back they can think of fixing up this resort, but not now.
If they go on and fix it up and send out huge bills to us owners, then they are without dough trying to get us to default so they can steal our deeds.

I am not happy thinking I could be charged to polish something just so it shines, but its ok to patch a leak.