New to TS...Just put down a deposit for WKORVN from the developer. Yikes!!!

My wife and I did the 90 minute preview at the Westin Princeville Villas yesterday. They were selling 2BR annuals for $55,900 and when we kind of balked at that they offered us every other year for $36,900. The property looked nice, but at the end of the day we couldn't justify coming all the way to hawaii and not getting even a glimpse of the ocean.

That's when they mentioned that they did have a couple of units left at WKORVN...they were sold out of annual units, but they could sell us an OF even year unit for $47,900. We told them we would be in Maui next, so we'd love to take a look at them. They told us that we should buy today, because if we bought in Maui, we would only receive 60,000 Starpoints as a developer incentive, as opposed to the 125,000 Starpoints we would get from buying with them...something about a bonus for being handicapped when buying at a different location. We decided to pass on the deal...but then they came back and said that they just found out (sounded dubious) that they could start the paperwork and enter it as a pending sale, by having us just put down a deposit for the closing costs ($550.) We could then do a walkthrough and inspection of the property when we arrived on Maui, and if we didn't like it we could cancel for a full refund. Otherwise, they will charge me the 10% next Sunday and the financing will begin.

So we paid the $550 and completed all the paperwork for the closing. I got back to the hotel last night and came straight to this site, as I remember reading how this is the source for TS info. Having never bought one before, I spent a few hours reading up here last night while waiting for my membership to be approved. What I've learned is that it appears I am about to agree to a very bad deal. Instead of buying an every other year 2BR OF unit for $47,900 I see I can get an every year unit for at least $15,000 less! What a racket they have going.

Anyway, I was curious to know exactly what drawbacks there are with buying resale? When I asked about that during the presentation, they told me that it's like buying a car from the dealership (with warranty) vs. buying used from some guy I don't know, and I have no protections or warranty. He went on to say that the developer is providing closing incentives to make up the difference. Last I checked 125,000 Starpoints, the option to buy 86,400 more Starpoints (twice in the next year) for $1800 each time, and SPG Gold for the life of my ownership don't seem to cover the difference!

A little about me. I am married with no kids (yet.) This is our second time to Hawaii (we came last year on our honeymoon) and love it here. We would be happy to visit every year, or at least every other year. We don't need a 2BR unit for the 2 of us, but I see that many people rent one half of their unit to subsidize the annual MFs. Or we could come with another couple. Lastly, we really love the idea of a true ocean front view....the closer to the ocean the better! We have been very happy with SPG and have been fortunate enough to earn a very nice amount of Starpoints with our SPG Amex...so I don't think I would ever have converted the Star Options to Starpoints (seems like a poor value to me, but then again I'm new at this.)

I'm guessing everyone will tell me to rescind the purchase ASAP. But I do want to know what pitfalls I might face buying resale. Thanks in advance for any help!

You seem to understand your situation quite well. To start...

RESCIND!!

Okay, now that's out of the way. WKORV seems to be selling for $15-25k for an annual week of late. Some people have reported ocean front units for as little as $27k. There are plenty of options out there. Rescind now and then take your time finding a deal.

I suspect this will be a buyer's market for the next couple of years (at least). You may even want to just rent for a year or two while you look.

Are you sure you want to fly to Hawaii every year? That's a long flight for you. You may want to consider Harborside at Atlantis (Bahamas) instead as an option. Of course, it's different, but only a few hour flight for you. No doubt you'll see lots of suggestions on TUG for what you should consider. Have fun (and rescind today!).

BTW, most TUG members believe that financing from the developer is a lousy proposition. Consider saving until you can buy in cash...

Okay BroadwayBlue-

You read Ken's comments. Now STAND BACK!!!!!

You are about to be inundated with pages of similar replies!

You already know the answers to your questions and you are one of the lucky ones who found out about this site before you could get out of it. I've been here for years and it's always been the same refrain - buy resale! But with today's prices, there's nothing left to talk about. Every year for way, way less than developer every-other-year pretty much says it all.

God luck and welcome aboard!

Never finance a timeshare week. If you can't afford to pay cash for it, then you can't afford it period!

Never buy from a developer, only buy resale. A new car from a dealer is a new car, but as soon as you sign the paperwork it is a used car. At least the car was new when you bought it and no ne else had driven it for more than a few miles. Any timeshare you buy is used, and has been used by a lot of people a lot of times. Your developer week is no better than their used week. A one owner car can bring a little higher resale. A developer purchased week is not worth one cent more than a resale purchased week.


RESCIND, RESCIND, RESCIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another thing to consider is that NYC is a long way from Hawaii. There are many many many beaches closer that are also really nice. So if you haven't been to the Bahamas, St John, Aruba, or even parts of FL recently you might find someplace a LOT closer that you like just as much. So follow the paperwork on your documents TO THE LETTER to rescind (take it over right now!) and take the time to decide what you really want and can afford.

And welcome to TUG! You've come to right place.

RESCIND without question. Buying from the developer is almost always a mistake. Buying from the developer and financing is ALWAYS a mistake.

Pay New Prices For Something That's Used-Used-Used? No Thanks.

broadwayblue said:

I was curious to know exactly what drawbacks there are with buying resale?

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Nothing.

The real question is, What's The Advantage Of Paying Big Bux To Some Timeshare Company When You Buy At Full Freight ?

Same answer -- Nothing.

See, all timeshares are used-used-used. By the time you show up & check in, other people will have been staying in your timeshare condo. There is no such thing as a new timeshare. Accordingly, it makes no sense to pay new prices for an item that's no such thing.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

I hope you choose to rescind. Spend time here learning about timeshares. Ask lots of questions here. Experienced people are more than willing to help you. Should you decide at a later date that for some reason you just have to spend many thousands more to buy from the developer, you can always get the same deal - no matter what they tell you.

Now, look at your contract. Read the instructions on how to rescind. Follow them exactly. Do not call the salesman, do not go back to the resort, f it says to mail to an address, do not fax, do not FedEx.

Please keep your money in your pockets until you become an educated consumer.

Good luck and welcome to TUG.

Sue

You are lucky...you found TUG in time to take the advice here.

I was not in time and should have rescinded but alas, it is water under the bridge and I am enjoying my TS!

Good Luck to you

Welcome to TUG!

Please read this article about rescinding.

Please let us know how it goes.

Rescind. Take your time. Starwood is a great system. You may find another system might work better for you.

Also since you do not "need" a two bedrom you may want to consider an every other year purchase and splitting the 1 bedroom and studio for 2 weeks EOY or 1 week every year (via exchange).

Anyway lots of reading for you.

Add me to the rescind list

I'm going to guess you had no intention of buying a timeshare when you went to the presentation. And I would also guess that you may have spent more than 90 minutes thinking about whether or not to buy an article of clothing - "I'll think about it overnight. If it still looks good tomorrow, I'll come back."

You can do the same thing with a timeshare only it's a heck of a lot more money. Rescind and then decide what you want to do, if anything.

You're one of the lucky ones. We get lots of folks here regretting their decision after their recission period has expired.

Welcome.

OK guys/girls, I've decided to rescind. So I do want to thank you for all the replies and the warm welcome. But first things first, I want to get the recission out of the way, as it is already stressing me out.

My "Notice of Mutual Right of Cancellation of Time Share Purchase" document enclosed with my sales package states:

"To cancel this transaction, mail or deliver a signed and dated copy of this cancellation notice or any other written notice, or send a telegram to:

SVO Pacific Inc. at 8801 Vistana Centre Drive, Orlando, Florida 32821,

No later than midnight of February 26, 2009"

So our first thought was to Fed Ex the signed/dated notice to them tomorrow on our way to the airport. But some of you have said to be mindful of the wording. Is Fed Ex not the same as "Mail"? And if I send a letter via USPS regular mail the odds are pretty good it won't make it to Orlando by next Thursday. Do they go by the postmark date or the date the notice is received? It says to mail it by midnight of the 26th, but I really don't want to mess this up.

broadwayblue said:

OK guys/girls, I've decided to rescind. So I do want to thank you for all the replies and the warm welcome. But first things first, I want to get the recission out of the way, as it is already stressing me out.

My "Notice of Mutual Right of Cancellation of Time Share Purchase" document enclosed with my sales package states:

"To cancel this transaction, mail or deliver a signed and dated copy of this cancellation notice or any other written notice, or send a telegram to:

SVO Pacific Inc. at 8801 Vistana Centre Drive, Orlando, Florida 32821,

No later than midnight of February 26, 2009"

So our first thought was to Fed Ex the signed/dated notice to them tomorrow on our way to the airport. But some of you have said to be mindful of the wording. Is Fed Ex not the same as "Mail"? And if I send a letter via USPS regular mail the odds are pretty good it won't make it to Orlando by next Thursday. Do they go by the postmark date or the date the notice is received? It says to mail it by midnight of the 26th, but I really don't want to mess this up.

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Glad you are rescinding! It's the postmark date that counts - not the arrival date. That being said, it will get there faster if mailed from the mainland - if you can get it postmarked within the rescission period.

Be SURE you send it "return receipt requested" and keep a copy of everything - please let us know how it goes - good luck!

DeniseM said:

Glad you are rescinding! It's the postmark date that counts - not the arrival date. That being said, it will get there faster if mailed from the mainland - if you can get it postmarked within the rescission period.

Be SURE you send it "return receipt requested" and keep a copy of everything - please let us know how it goes - good luck!

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Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I won't be back on the mainland for another week...after the recission period. So I guess I'll drop a copy in the mail at the nearest post office using return/receipt. What if they say they never got it??? Also, my wife wants to Fed Ex it...will that not qualify as "Mail"?

P.S. I can't believe I just said that it is unfortunate I won't be back on the mainland until after the recission period is over. The lying sales lady up at Princeville told me if we decided not to go through with the purchase after seeing a unit this coming Sunday we could just give them the cancellation notice right there...do you think there is any chance they will accept it? I even made a joke about asking how difficult it would be to cancel...she laughed when I asked if I had to do it in person during a Tuesday in June between 3:17 and 3:23pm during a full moon. No she said, you can just give them the notice right there and that's all there is to it! Is that even legal???

broadwayblue said:

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I won't be back on the mainland for another week...after the recission period. So I guess I'll drop a copy in the mail at the nearest post office using return/receipt. What if they say they never got it??? Also, my wife wants to Fed Ex it...will that not qualify as "Mail"?

P.S. I can't believe I just said that it is unfortunate I won't be back on the mainland until after the recission period is over. The lying sales lady up at Princeville told me if we decided not to go through with the purchase after seeing a unit this coming Sunday we could just give them the cancellation notice right there...do you think there is any chance they will accept it? I even made a joke about asking how difficult it would be to cancel...she laughed when I asked if I had to do it in person during a Tuesday in June between 3:17 and 3:23pm during a full moon. No she said, you can just give them the notice right there and that's all there is to it! Is that even legal???

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You can give them the notice in person - but you will have to ask them for a receipt for it, to have documentation and you will have to be prepared for a major argument when they try to talk you out of it, so I would mail it. If you send it "return receipt requested' and they refuse delivery, it will be returned to you, with a notice on the return receipt, that they refused delivery - proof that you sent it. Is there any particular reason that you want to send it Fed Ex? I'm not sure if they offer a return receipt, which you need for documentation.

DeniseM said:

You can give them the notice in person - but you will have to ask them for a receipt for it, to have documentation and you will have to be prepared for a major argument when they try to talk you out of it, so I would mail it. If you send it "return receipt requested' and they refuse delivery, it will be returned to you, with a notice on the return receipt, that they refused delivery - thus proof that you sent it. Is there any particular reason that you want to send it Fed Ex? I'm not sure if they offer a return receipt, which you need for documentation.

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I think she just wants to make sure they have the notice in their hands by next Thursday...but as you say, it only needs to be postmarked by then. I think what I'll do is try and hand it to them in person in Maui and get a receipt...but I'll also mail a copy via USPS return/receipt as well. Hopefully that should cover it. Just what I wanted to deal with on my vacation.

Thanks again.

If you want them to receive it sooner, you can overnight it with USPS and get a return receipt, but it's only the postmark that counts.

For me, it would be miserable to go to the presentation on Maui after all this - you don't have to do it, you know...

DeniseM said:

If you want them to receive it sooner, you can overnight it with USPS and get a return receipt, but it's only the postmark that counts.

For me, it would be miserable to go to the presentation on Maui after all this - you don't have to do it, you know...

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That's a good idea...I think we'll do USPS overnight with return receipt. I know it's overkill, but I just want the piece of mind.

I'm not attending a presentation in Maui, just a "Site Inspection" since as far as they are concerned I've already purchased. I want to see what a unit looks like in person, as well as how close the OF units actually are to the water. I'm still very interested in purchasing a resale unit, so I might as well take this opportunity to see the property first-hand. I don't plan on giving them the notice until after I see the unit, and if they give me any grief I'll just say thank you and leave.

When you go on the tour, ask them to show you not just the best units in each view category. Ask them to show you the worst room in each category: the OF unit set several stacks away from the ocean, the IV unit overlooking the parking lot, the OV unit with trees impeding your view, or on ground level where people will be walking by while you're eating your dinner. The worst view is just as important as the best view because you have just as much of a chance getting the latter as the former.

These days, you'll be able to pick up a resale OF for the mid-20's resale. Unless the economy makes a miraculous recovery, they will remain flat or bottom out further for the foreseeable future. There are THOUSANDS of WKORV units on the resale market right now, and since they're all float/platinum, inventory will continue to remain high. So there's absolutely no sense of urgency here.

In fact, a strong case can be made to not buy at all but to simply rent from a current owner (there are also thousands of ads offering the units up for rent) for the cost of MFs + a few hundred bucks. If I were you, that's exactly what I'd do.

If you still feel like buying, know that WKORV is a mandatory resort (and don't let them tell you otherwise), so you lose next to nothing by buying resale. Most importantly, you'll still be able to trade to other SVO resorts internally. That's the only benefit worth the paper it's written on.

You seem like you're absolutely on the right track.

And, since you are interested in buying in Maui, I agree that checking out the property is worthwhile. Since you have the opportunity to shop around, you might consider checking out the Marriott resorts there as well. Marriott and Starwood systems each have their pros and cons, but unless you have your heart set on buying into a Starwood property I think it is worth your while to check out Marriott as well.

When you get home, spend some time on this Board to learn about the system. Personally, our first timeshare experience was in Oahu a few years ago and I would have loved to buy on the spot. The shopper instinct in me took over and I decided to wait and check things out when I got home and discovered this website. Since I also live in NY, let me chime in with a little perspective which you may or may not agree with, but at least should consider. Hawaii is a long trip and will be longer once you have kids (if you plan on having them) and the cost for airfare adds up too. Hawaii timeshares are expensive and so are the annual MF's, so buy there to use most years, not to trade. If you don't feel you'll make a trip there most years, I'd rec. strongly considering an EOY unit or buying elsewhere that can be traded to Hawaii when you want to go.

Many NYers have opted to buy Caribbean weeks and trade into Hawaii when they want to visit. Of course, trades are never guaranteed, but the shorter flights and cheaper airfare is something worth considering. Hawaii is still Hawaii, and others are ok with the annual flights. I was tempted but my family nixed it. I decided to buy a strong trading Marriott which can get me a Hawaii trade if I want. We love Aruba, so that was a natural choice for us. We haven't traded there yet, but my friend just traded her Gold Aruba week for a New Year's Ko'Olina 2BR, so great trades are doable.

Just some food for thought.... For now, aside from taking care of the rescission and perhaps exploring the properties, forget about whether to purchase, enjoy the rest of your trip and when you come home get addicted to Tug like many of us here .

broadwayblue said:

I think she just wants to make sure they have the notice in their hands by next Thursday...but as you say, it only needs to be postmarked by then. I think what I'll do is try and hand it to them in person in Maui and get a receipt...but I'll also mail a copy via USPS return/receipt as well. Hopefully that should cover it. Just what I wanted to deal with on my vacation.

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

I would make copies and do both hand it to them and mail it.

DeniseM said:

If you send it "return receipt requested' and they refuse delivery, it will be returned to you, with a notice on the return receipt, that they refused delivery - proof that you sent it. Is there any particular reason that you want to send it Fed Ex? I'm not sure if they offer a return receipt, which you need for documentation.

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FedEx has online confirmation of delivery and you can always request a copy of the signature of whomever accepted the delivery. I suspect "mail" does not specifically mean USPS or other national mail service, but rather just the mechanism of physically delivering the document not only by fax, etc. I've heard others who have sent it by fax, email and mail (overnight) just to be sure. Even so, I agree with others that it's just not worth worrying over - don't use FedEx or UPS, but rather USPS' own overnight mail, as you intend.

Of course, make copies of everything you mail and keep the USPS overnight receipt, then print out the online copy of the acceptance signature, etc.

Also, Starwood is not some fly by night outfit out to get you. I rescinded at WKORV once because of the rudeness of one of the people involved in the sale and there was no problem turning in the notice on site. I imagine that will take the weight off your shoulders the quickest.

If it makes you feel better also mail the notice to Florida, but my point is that you shouldn't fret too much about it. Certainly don't let the issue spoil the rest of your vacation. You will be OK. Starwood is a reputable organization and they won't purposely try to get you on a technicality if you have made reasonable efforts to rescind.

Mailing the resposne to Florida has the advantage that you will not have to do a lot of talking with anyone at Starwood. If you rescind locally they may try to talk to you out of it. However, emotionally it is not the same as knowing they already got the paper and the issue is over.

Did anyone say "rescind" yet???

:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: