• Welcome to the FREE TUGBBS forums! The absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 32 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 32 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 32nd anniversary: Happy 32nd Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    All subscribers auto-entered to win all free TUG membership giveaways!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Now through the end of the year you can join or renew your TUG membership at the lowest price ever offered! Learn More!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

WKV or FS?

D

D2-S3

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Location
California
I'm looking for some suggestions as to which timeshare to buy. I like to vacation in CA and AZ. but occasionally like to go to HI also. I already have 2200 points with Hyatt which can usually trade with II into Marriott's in CA and AZ, but doesn't get me to HI. Further, I figure I can justify one additional TS purchase.

So, one thought is to buy WKV resale, and use it for HI through a Starwood internal exchange when I want to go there, and it can also get me to Palm Desert area. I would probably never use it for II. Alternatively, I could get FS (Aviara or Scottsdale), which does not get me into HI directly, but gets me a great property I otherwise can't get into with Hyatt. I thought maybe I could use TUG to trade FS directly with HI owners when I want to go there.

However, I don't know how easy it is to trade into HI through the Starwood internal exchange, nor how easy it would be to trade a FS into HI through Tug's exchange board.

Does anyone have any experience or suggestions in this regard?
 
If you buy any mandatory resort, it's currently very easy to exchange into Hawaii with SOs most weeks. You won't ever be able to trade into weeks 51/52 as those are event weeks, and you may need to call at exactly 8 months out to reserve summer weeks, but I think the rest of the year is wide open for exchanges. Buying a unit with lower MFs and exchanging into Hawaii is, by far, the most economical way to get there. You won't get assigned an ocean front villa, but a week in Maui in a very nice 2 bdrm villa for $1100 in MFs isn't a bad deal.

Note: It may get more difficult to exchange in once the economy picks up, but I think if you're a planner and can call the minute the exchange window opens up, you'll be able to snag most weeks except perhaps holiday weeks such as President's Day and the 2 weeks shouldering July 4th.

If you buy at WKV you'll also have a very nice place to stay in Arizona. Or you can use SOs to exchange into Westin Mission Hills in the Palm Springs area, which is also a beautiful resort. It's a voluntary resort but a strong II trader. It'll probably get you into Hawaii most years if you can be somewhat flexible and are diligent about checking II, however summer weeks will probably be tougher to get. I think it has similar MFs to WKV but can be purchased for a much lower purchase price.

In either case, I'd strongly encourage you to look for a platinum 2 bdrm at WKV, which are getting increasingly difficult to find because they are the best value in the SVN network. You'll get 148,100 options, which will trade to any other 2 bdrm in the network, including Hawaii and California.

***

FS Aviara would be a great place to own, but currently direct exchanging isn't as easy as you'd think. Since we owners have to reserve 12 months out to get the best view, it makes exchanging rather tricky. Using SVN is much, much easier than direct exchanging or using II.
 
We actually evaluated both of them 5 years ago and purchased Kierland after staying at the FS onm a promotional visit. Yes, the FS was lovely but we did not like the fact that it was in the middle of nowhere, while Kierland is near everything. You can walk to the Kierland commons to shop or eat, get drunk and walk home! (only kidding).

While the FS was lush and service was great, I was astounded by the level of service at Kierland - certainly better than I usually see. A big plus for WKV is that if you ever split the units, at Kierland both sides are suites with living rooms, while at FS, one side will be a studio - something that will affect you greatly if you ever try to trade.

I can see arguments for both. No one sprays me with Evian at WKV or offers me Hagen Daz pops at the pool, but I have never, ever regretted my decision.
 
LisaRex said:
Note: It may get more difficult to exchange in once the economy picks up, but I think if you're a planner and can call the minute the exchange window opens up, you'll be able to snag most weeks except perhaps holiday weeks such as President's Day and the 2 weeks shouldering July 4th. QUOTE]

This is a good point. Basically, when the economy picks up, more people will be travelling and will ultimately drive occupancy levels up.

Another approach to consider which I do not think many owners take advantage of is the "request first" option with II. Consider this.....

If you are an owner of 148,100 StarOptions at the Westin Kierland, you can call 8 months in advance to the desired check-in date. This does not mean that you have to lose out on the 4 months completely.

I suggest to owners that they contact owner servies or II directly and open a "request first" to go the Westin in Maui at 12 months out. This way, you at least have your ownership working for you during the 4 months that you are not able to book direct. If that does not work out, then cancel and book at 8 months (get your exchange fee back).

Yes, you will be paying an exchange fee; however, you may save more on Airfare if you can get your dates locked in at 10 months.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
 
We also looked at the fractionals in detail. They were pricy and MFs were super high. Plus they make you buy one "bad" week along with one to two prime weeks (ie Spring). Bad weeks in AZ are really bad! Summer! :eek:

Also, I was told point blank that exchanges using fractionals are really not possible. The only way to exchange is to make personal arrangements. While I love Phoenix, the thought of spending that much money ONLY to be able to go there and nowhere else for the rest of my life seemsa little depressing.

If you want to spend that much money, just buy a few weeks at Kierland on resale (ie 5-6 weeks for $20,000 each) and you will still be ahead financially AND you can stay in the Springtime.

Katherine
 
I would not buy FS for trading to HI.
If you consider trading (SVN or II), WKV is the way to go.
 
FS (Four Seasons Aviara in Carlsbad or Scottsdale) are far too nice to trade for any Starwood property or, as far as I'm concerned, any other TS in the world. Those two places are in a class by themselves.

They, FS, are places you trade into (if you can), not out of.

Moreover, either is more expensive than WKV with double the annual maintenance fees. Why pay such high fees to trade to a lesser place with a lesser amount of fees?

Buy a Platinum (weeks 50-52 and 1-21) WKV 2-br for $17-20K - or less - these days and you'll get 148,100 Staroptions that can be used (subject to availability) to reserve a 2-br 8 months before arrival anywhere in the Starwood Vacation Network. A Starwood 2-br in Hawaii is 148,100 Staroptions. You will get in except for a few weeks pretty easily if you call right at 8 months out.

Also, if you want to go to WKV (and you should), you can reserve a week in the Platinum season from 12 months to 8 months out and only be competing with other WKV Platinum owners. WKV's a great place to visit (except Mid-Summer) even if you are thinking of using it for trading. :) ... eom
 
WK or FS?

Thanks for the comments. A lot to think about. It looks like a gold season FSA can be had for under 10K. That is still a nice time of year to travel there, and it is driving distance (WKV is not). Because, as op noted, it is a place people want to trade into and not out of, wouldn't that make it a good occasional HI trader for a Westin, Marriott, or Hilton property? The MF's are comparable. For sure, I wouldn't trade it to go anywhere else. And I doubt that I would want to split the unit. I really like Phoenix/Scottsdale, but there are multiple nice properties there that I can already trade into with my Hyatt. It appears to be a consensus that WKV gets me better access to Westin HI properties. But it doesn't get me anywhere else I can't already go. That's why I keep wondering about FSA. So, do you think WKV is a lot easier to get into HI on occasion, or just a little easier?
 
D2-S3 said:
The MF's are comparable.
Click to expand...

I think the MF's are significantly higher at FS.

It appears to be a consensus that WKV gets me better access to Westin HI properties. But it doesn't get me anywhere else I can't already go. That's why I keep wondering about FSA. So, do you think WKV is a lot easier to get into HI on occasion, or just a little easier?
Click to expand...

Starwood owners have priority in II for other SW resorts, so a WKV owner can exchange into another SW resort before a non-SW owner.
 
Starwood resorts have a priority with II for other Starwood resorts, so it's a lot easier to exchange WKV for WKORV and WKBV, than to exchange in with FS. Starwod owners can see and reserve other SW resorts 3 days before non-SW owners.

I may be mistaken, but I think FS is about $500-800 more per year in MF than WKV.
 
Thanks Denise.

MF for FSA is around $2000, so I meant to imply that it is similar to WKORV not WKV. But surprisingly, it is cheaper to purchase than WKV. I have a lot to consider. Your perspective is much appreciated.
 
WKV's top season is weeks 50-52 and 1-21. Aviara's top season is weeks 22-40. WKV is a winter resort. Aviara is a summer resort.

Top season to top season, Aviara is a more expensive resale than WKV. Comparing Aviara's winter season to WKV's winter (top) season, Aviara is less expensive.

However, being a mandatory resort, buying at WKV allows the secondary owner the right (subject to availabilty) to reserve at any Starwood resort at 8 months before arrival.

Aviara has larger 2-br units (1,670 square feet) that are much posher, that have 3 balconies and 3 full bathrooms. However, if you do not use Aviara to stay there every year, use is nowhere near as flexible as WKV. It is limited to II trading and, if you buy through an FS "authorized reseller," to Troon North.

You do have a lot to consider. And, your issue has appeared on TUG before: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-27391.html

:) ... eom
 
DeniseM said:
Starwood owners have priority in II for other SW resorts, so a WKV owner can exchange into another SW resort before a non-SW owner.
Click to expand...

Don't listen to Denise; she's jet lagged. :D

Yes, it would be a lot easier to exchange into Hawaii with WKV but it's because you'll be able to use SVN, which is Starwood's internal exchange program. No need to involve II at all. If you want to use FSA to get into any Starwood resort, you'd have to use II and clear several hurdles. Here is the pecking order for Starwood units:

  1. Westin Hawaii owners, who can book 8-12 months out
  2. SVN exchangers, who use their StarOptions to book starting at 8 months out
  3. Starwood II exchangers - all Starwood owners have a 3 day priority window in II where only they can see inventory
  4. All II exchangers

So, even though FSA has great trading power in II, you are still low man on the totem pole and would have to wait until it clears through the other 3 gates. So your chances of getting a high season unit in HI are much, much lower than if you were a Starwood owner.

If you're content going to Hawaii in the spring/fall, then it's far less important to own a Starwood unit as these routinely make it onto II.

If you really love FSA and want to travel there most years, I think you should buy there. There are tons of Hawaii timeshares and I'm sure that you'll get into one of them using FSA either as a direct exchanger or II. It just won't be as simple, or as cheap, as using SVN.

And at the risk of being too simplistic, instead of ponying up $20k + annuals MFs to buy another TS for the purpose of trading into HI on occasions, why not just simply rent on the years you want to get there? At the very least, I'd consider an EOY unit.
 
Last edited:
I want to mention about "updated exchange rule" for FS.
You don't have to purchase FS from "authorized broker (reseller)" to use internal exchange program. They changed this rule, and I called and confirmed this with owner's services 5 months ago.
FS doesn't have many resorts like Starwood, so internal exchanges are often occurred only between Aviara and Troon North (Scottsdale), but if you are flexible for seasons, you can exchange your FS into very nice properties like, Phillips Club in NYC, Mont Tremblanc, Quebec, etc... which are not belong to usual exchange companies (II or RCI) and top quality like FS resorts.
If you want to exchange to Starwood resorts in HI, FS is not the right choice, but if you also consider Marriott resorts in HI, FS can do well. I often heard FS studio unit could get 2 BR Marriotts in HI.
Hilton is traded through RCI, so neither WKV or FS can get Hilton resorts in HI :)
 
Last edited:
LisaRex said:
Don't listen to Denise; she's jet lagged. :D

Yes, it would be a lot easier to exchange into Hawaii with WKV but it's because you'll be able to use SVN, which is Starwood's internal exchange program. No need to involve II at all. If you want to use FSA to get into any Starwood resort, you'd have to use II and clear several hurdles. Here is the pecking order for Starwood units:

  1. Westin Hawaii owners, who can book 8-12 months out
  2. SVN exchangers, who use their StarOptions to book starting at 8 months out
  3. Starwood II exchangers - all Starwood owners have a 3 day priority window in II where only they can see inventory
  4. All II exchangers

So, even though FSA has great trading power in II, you are still low man on the totem pole and would have to wait until it clears through the other 3 gates. So your chances of getting a high season unit in HI are much, much lower than if you were a Starwood owner.

If you're content going to Hawaii in the spring/fall, then it's far less important to own a Starwood unit as these routinely make it onto II.

If you really love FSA and want to travel there most years, I think you should buy there. There are tons of Hawaii timeshares and I'm sure that you'll get into one of them using FSA either as a direct exchanger or II. It just won't be as simple, or as cheap, as using SVN.

And at the risk of being too simplistic, instead of ponying up $20k + annuals MFs to buy another TS for the purpose of trading into HI on occasions, why not just simply rent on the years you want to get there? At the very least, I'd consider an EOY unit.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to clarify my previous statement....

It is true that II is not necessary at all if you own WKV to get into Maui; however, should things change in the future with availability (which we all expect), you could in the future use II to maximize your vacation planning by initiating the request first option for the 4 months before the SVN reservation window opens up which is 8 months prior to any check-in day.
 
James1975NY said:
I just wanted to clarify my previous statement....

It is true that II is not necessary at all if you own WKV to get into Maui; however, should things change in the future with availability (which we all expect), you could in the future use II to maximize your vacation planning by initiating the request first option for the 4 months before the SVN reservation window opens up which is 8 months prior to any check-in day.
Click to expand...

I wish I'd thought of that insteadof pleading guilty to jet lag! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top