HRC vs HPC resale purchase

[spec1]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I think I have a clearer understanding now. Points programs look good at first glance, but y'all are right that at closer inspection you basically become a hostage of the system. So I think I'm convinced now that a fixed week at a carefully chosen property is the way to go.

 

[Kal]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I think I have a clearer understanding now. Points programs look good at first glance, but y'all are right that at closer inspection you basically become a hostage of the system. So I think I'm convinced now that a fixed week at a carefully chosen property is the way to go.

Remember, just because you own a fixed week at a specific resort, the meaningful ownership is the point value of that unit-week. You can use those points where ever you desire and are not limited to the owned unit. For one of my owned units, I NEVER ever stayed at that unit. I always use that point value to stay at other HVC resorts.

 

[spec1]

I'm just wondering if there is a catch with Pinon Pointe's low MFs? I hope it's not because they are delaying maintenance, which could result in special assessments/MF jumps in subsequent years. It also seems that MFs there are same for all weeks, so higher value weeks cost the same as lower value weeks. Again, is this something that could change in the future?

 

[Mongoose]

I'm just wondering if there is a catch with Pinon Pointe's low MFs? I hope it's not because they are delaying maintenance, which could result in special assessments/MF jumps in subsequent years. It also seems that MFs there are same for all weeks, so higher value weeks cost the same as lower value weeks. Again, is this something that could change in the future?

No delays in maintenance, in fact they are in process of a complete renovation. It could always change. Many TS's saw significant increases in MFs in 2023 due to increases in property taxes and a 50-70% increase in property insurance. The Hyatt in Puerto Rico are the highest due to hurricane damage related costs and repairs. In AZ you don't have to worry about Hurricanes or Earthquakes. FL TS's are also going way up due to new state requirements after the Highrise collapse a couple of years back.

 

[mjm1]

I'm just wondering if there is a catch with Pinon Pointe's low MFs? …. It also seems that MFs there are same for all weeks, so higher value weeks cost the same as lower value weeks. Again, is this something that could change in the future?

That’s the way it works at all of the resorts. The MF’s are the same, but the lower point value units sold at a reduced price. And that holds true on the resale market. The owner pays one way or the other.

 

[geist1223]

Maintenance Fees are normally determined by the size of the Unit not the Season. So while a 2 Bedroom Unit during High Season/View may cost more upfront normally the Maintenance Fees will be the same for a 2 Bedroom during the off Season or limited View.

 

[ChicagoDave]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I think I have a clearer understanding now. Points programs look good at first glance, but y'all are right that at closer inspection you basically become a hostage of the system. So I think I'm convinced now that a fixed week at a carefully chosen property is the way to go.

If you are interested in a Pinion Pointe week, please send me a private message. I have a 2 bedroom 2,000 point annual use platinum week that I am getting ready to list for sale for $6,100. I can send you the details if you’re interested.

 

[spec1]

OK, everyone, maybe there is one possible advantage to the HPC program. In HPC you are allowed to rent out any HPC property, while in HRC you can rent only your deeded week. That's if I understood the disclosures correctly. What it seems some people are doing is reserving a "mountain time" week at Aspen, around Thanksgiving (that's just 200 points for a 2-bedroom week, or even 90 points for 6 days. I don't know - maybe Thanksgiving day costs an extra 110 points, but in any case, amounts are very low), and then renting it for $3-5k per week (lots of listings like that on Redweek). If they do manage to find renters for that week, then it more than makes up for MFs. Any thoughts?

Of course, I understand that such a loophole, like any arbitrage opportunity, is likely to be closed in the future.

 

[Mongoose]

OK, everyone, maybe there is one possible advantage to the HPC program. In HPC you are allowed to rent out any HPC property, while in HRC you can rent only your deeded week. That's if I understood the disclosures correctly. What it seems some people are doing is reserving a "mountain time" week at Aspen, around Thanksgiving (that's just 200 points for a 2-bedroom week, or even 90 points for 6 days. I don't know - maybe Thanksgiving day costs an extra 110 points, but in any case, amounts are very low), and then renting it for $3-5k per week (lots of listings like that on Redweek). If they do manage to find renters for that week, then it more than makes up for MFs. Any thoughts?

Of course, I understand that such a loophole, like any arbitrage opportunity, is likely to be closed in the future.

I believe that is true. But there is no HPC location you are going to get $3-5K. The only one that will get you that is Maui, which is not HPC.

 

[Kal]

OK, everyone, maybe there is one possible advantage to the HPC program. In HPC you are allowed to rent out any HPC property, while in HRC you can rent only your deeded week. That's if I understood the disclosures correctly. What it seems some people are doing is reserving a "mountain time" week at Aspen, around Thanksgiving (that's just 200 points for a 2-bedroom week, or even 90 points for 6 days. I don't know - maybe Thanksgiving day costs an extra 110 points, but in any case, amounts are very low), and then renting it for $3-5k per week (lots of listings like that on Redweek). If they do manage to find renters for that week, then it more than makes up for MFs. Any thoughts?

Of course, I understand that such a loophole, like any arbitrage opportunity, is likely to be closed in the future.

Renting a unit obtained by HVC points is a very common and widespread practice. The rule allows for use by "friends and family" but sometimes it's fun to gain new "friends" on the internet.

 

[spec1]

I'm now in the process of purchasing a resale HRC unit. I'll also get this year's points, but by the time the transaction is completed, most likely these points will in LCUP. Since we already have a summer vacation planned, due to kids' school, additional travel would only be possible over Thanksgiving or Christmas break, and perhaps something close by, like WOR over Labor Day weekend. So I'm wondering if there is any chance at all of obtaining an HRC reservation anywhere during these peak times 60 days out? Any other possible ways of using LCUP points, apart from gifting a stay to friends or relatives who may be more flexible?

 

[mjm1]

I'm now in the process of purchasing a resale HRC unit. I'll also get this year's points, but by the time the transaction is completed, most likely these points will in LCUP. Since we already have a summer vacation planned, due to kids' school, additional travel would only be possible over Thanksgiving or Christmas break, and perhaps something close by, like WOR over Labor Day weekend. So I'm wondering if there is any chance at all of obtaining an HRC reservation anywhere during these peak times 60 days out? Any other possible ways of using LCUP points, apart from gifting a stay to friends or relatives who may be more flexible?

Perhaps the best option is to ask the current owner to see if they can make a reservation for you. Offer to reimburse them for the reservation fee.

 

[spec1]

Perhaps the best option is to ask the current owner to see if they can make a reservation for you. Offer to reimburse them for the reservation fee.

This sounds like a good idea. Would the reservations carry over with the resale, or would they also need guest certificates?

 

[mjm1]

This sounds like a good idea. Would the reservations carry over with the resale, or would they also need guest certificates?

Yes, the reservation would carryover to you. We did this when we bought our first unit. There is a guest fee of $30 (online) or $36 (phone) in addition to the reservation fee. It was well worth for us.

 

[GTLINZ]

This sounds like a good idea. Would the reservations carry over with the resale, or would they also need guest certificates?

Anything is possible but LCUP points are hard to spend. There is competition with other owners who have LCUP points.

I would ask for and reimburse the current owner for a guest cert in addition to a reservation. Then it won't matter if you close in time. It is worth the money.

This is all assuming the points are still in CUP now. And if they are CUP they can be spent in both Hyatt and Interval.

BTW - what is WOR ? An interval seach did not have a match.

 

[ChicagoDave]

BTW - what is WOR ? An interval seach did not have a match.

I assume he means Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch.

 

[spec1]

Anything is possible but LCUP points are hard to spend. There is competition with other owners who have LCUP points.

I would ask for and reimburse the current owner for a guest cert in addition to a reservation. Then it won't matter if you close in time. It is worth the money.

This is all assuming the points are still in CUP now. And if they are CUP they can be spent in both Hyatt and Interval.

BTW - what is WOR ? An interval seach did not have a match.

Yes, sorry - WOR is Wild Oak Ranch.

As I understand, most of HRC exchange inventory becomes available at the 6 month mark when non-booked home weeks are converted into CUP and moreover, the HPC inventory becomes available for club to club exchange. How is the inventory 6-12 months out? Is there anything out there, especially for peak times? For example, right now, is there any availability for weeks 51-52 (Christmas/New Year) anywhere/any size unit in HRC? Perhaps spring break next year (week 11)would be a bit easier since the timing is different for everyone, but it is probably too far out.

The points are currently in CUP. Also, to avoid a possible waste of time and money, it is probably best to wait until the purchase clears ROFR, so there will likely be a narrow period of time between then and LCUP.

Interval may be a bit more difficult to book via another person because there are so many different places, moreover of variable quality, so a lot of planning and research would be needed. This is something that I'm looking forward to doing by myself in the future, but via the seller it would be awkward.

 

[Kal]

Yes, sorry - WOR is Wild Oak Ranch.

As I understand, most of HRC exchange inventory becomes available at the 6 month mark when non-booked home weeks are converted into CUP and moreover, the HPC inventory becomes available for club to club exchange. How is the inventory 6-12 months out? Is there anything out there, especially for peak times? For example, right now, is there any availability for weeks 51-52 (Christmas/New Year) anywhere/any size unit in HRC? Perhaps spring break next year (week 11)would be a bit easier since the timing is different for everyone, but it is probably too far out.

The points are currently in CUP. Also, to avoid a possible waste of time and money, it is probably best to wait until the purchase clears ROFR, so there will likely be a narrow period of time between then and LCUP.

Interval may be a bit more difficult to book via another person because there are so many different places, moreover of variable quality, so a lot of planning and research would be needed. This is something that I'm looking forward to doing by myself in the future, but via the seller it would be awkward.

It's not as if you can easily grab a unit exactly at the 6 month mark. A confirmation is first made from the request list, then proceeding down the list in the order an owner added their names. The earliest you can get on the request list is 18 months prior to the first day of the requested week. A week can be released by the owner as early as 12 months out. Hi demand weeks in high demand resorts will always be first requested. In actuality, any week available at 6 months out is often considered as a leftover.

 

[Mongoose]

It's not as if you can easily grab a unit exactly at the 6 month mark. A confirmation is first made from the request list, then proceeding down the list in the order an owner added their names. The earliest you can get on the request list is 18 months prior to the first day of the requested week. A week can be released by the owner as early as 12 months out. Hi demand weeks in high demand resorts will always be first requested. In actuality, any week available at 6 months out is often considered as a leftover.

Also, You can setup a waitlist. Note that 6 months in you often need to be prepared to be flexible in both timing and destination to be successful.

 

[GTLINZ]

HRC inventory outside of 6 months does show up but only if somebody basically uses some of their points which releases the week. HRC owners will also see HPP inventory show up at 6 months they otherwise don't have access to.

Wild Oak has a LOT of inventory showing up thru December. Looks like you could choose most anytime you wanted if that is where you want to go. I even see a lot of inventory within 2 months so that may not even be a worry using LCUP points.

I own there and have never gone there and start using my points a year out. It would appear there is a lot of that going on. I would think Pinion Pointe is the same way - lower MFs and no hurricanes.

 

[spec1]

It's not as if you can easily grab a unit exactly at the 6 month mark. A confirmation is first made from the request list, then proceeding down the list in the order an owner added their names. The earliest you can get on the request list is 18 months prior to the first day of the requested week. A week can be released by the owner as early as 12 months out. Hi demand weeks in high demand resorts will always be first requested. In actuality, any week available at 6 months out is often considered as a leftover.

Alright, so we passed ROFR ($3,500 for an 1,880 point week at Pinon Pointe). This was much quicker than expected. The seller agreed to put in reservation requests on my behalf.

Now I know that any confirmed reservations will carry over, but I'm wondering if request list positions will also carry over with the purchase? For example, if a request is put in now for Summer 2025 on my behalf, but doesn't get filled before the unit is transferred, do I lose my spot in the line or does it carry over and could be filled for example when I get next year's points?

 

[mjm1]

Alright, so we passed ROFR ($3,500 for an 1,880 point week at Pinon Pointe). This was much quicker than expected. The seller agreed to put in reservation requests on my behalf.

Now I know that any confirmed reservations will carry over, but I'm wondering if request list positions will also carry over with the purchase? For example, if a request is put in now for Summer 2025 on my behalf, but doesn't get filled before the unit is transferred, do I lose my spot in the line or does it carry over and could be filled for example when I get next year's points?

Congratulations on getting through the ROFR process!