Rci weeks value of deposit

[Carolinian]

Hmmm, it seems you were the one busted for using a sleight of hand in flipping between two different measurements to deliberately distort the numbers of timeshares in the US and Europe. I gave you two chances to walk back your deliberate misrepresentations and you refused to do so.

You are hardly one to be accusing others of mis-statements or half truths.

The choices are to let Carlolinian say half truths and mis-statements about the new program and RCI in general and let them stand unchallenged as though true, or someone can refute it. If nothing is said to refute him any guest, newbie, or rare reader will assume that RCI sucks,that it is not worth joining, that the new Weeks TPU values are cheating all members, that it cheats Europe, that it favors orlando, etc, etc, etc. If no one said anything one could assume from reading these threads that RCI sucks and the independents are the only way to exchange because Carolinian says so and no one on TUG disagreed. What a disservice to people trying to find out about the new program.

 

[tombo]

Hmmm, Manhattan Club. Under the new system, RCI gives an owner there a bit over 30 points lite for a deposit, but even in the dead of winter wants 60 points lite to trade in, even when they ~20 dead of winter weeks sitting in the spacebank. Do you really think that is better?

Yes it is much better. Would I like to pay 30 TPU's for Manhattan club? Absolutelly, but that is not an option. I would also like to get 60 TPU's for every one of my deposits and only pay 15 TPU's for everyone else's. Thatis not an option either.

Why is it better? Simple. I deposited a week that I get 45 TPU's for and a week I get 35 TPU's for, paid $99 to combine them giving me a total of 80 TPU's, and I now can exchange for The Manhattan Club IF IT IS WORTH IT TO ME TO PAY 60 TPU"S for a one bed unit and I will have 20 TPU's eft over to trade for another week or 2. Under the old system neither one of these trades would have gotten Manhattan Club by themselves. So under the old system I could have deposited 2, 3,4 ,or even 5 weeks and none of them would have gotten Manahattan Club. I had to deposit my weeks under the old system and HOPE that my week fell into a magical unknown "band" that would see Mahattan Club. Now I know what my week is worth, what the Manhattan Club costs to trade for, and I can combine weeks and trade for NY IF it is worth it to me.

Explain to me how it was better under the old system. I can tell you it was only better under the old system for the FEW experts who had tiger traders perpetually deposited and knew how to use them. I can't tell you how many times I saw a week at Manhattan Club, Hawaii, St John, Aruba, St Lucia, HGVC, or some other hard to find location listed on sightings and I would run to RCI and COULDN"T SEE ANY AVAILABILITY. I would PM the TUGGER who listed it and ask them if it was still there, and they would say yes. I would deposit what I considered to be a better week and still couldn't see it. I would PM them again and it was gone. Now I know what is available without depositing anything, I know what the Manahattan Club, HGVC, Hawaii, St Jhn, Aruba, etc, etc, will cost me, and I CAN EXCHANGE FOR IT BY COMBINING IF I FEEL IT IS WORTH IT TO ME. I NOW HAVE AN OPTION I DIDN"T HAVE BEFORE. How is that not BETTER?

Now before you say SFX trades for Manhattan Club, HGVC, Hawaii, StJohn, Aruba, Europe, and other hard to trade for places one for one as though it is a fact, let's be honest because it is not a fact for most TUGGERS. Unless you own in California or Hawaii,and unless you want to exchange for California or Hawaii, using SFX is not a good option.The 2 deposits I made worth 45 TPU's and 35 TPU's in RCI are both on the Florida panhandle. SFX will not accept either exchange for deposit. So how can I use the great independent SFX to exchange one for one for New York, Aruba, Hawaii, HGVC, St John, Sanibel Island,europe, etc,etc, when they won't accept my weeks? I CAN"T!

Let's look at what I mainly own which is in the southeast because I mainly purchase weeks at locations I can drive to. SFX will not accept any of my Panama City Beach weeks and none of my Destin weeks for exchange, but RCI gladly will and give me good values for them allowing me to exchange them for locations all over the world. SFX won't let me exchange them for anything anywhere. I can't deposit my Orange Beach 4th of July oceanfront week which is an unbelievably valuable week as there are only 2 resorts in Orange beach. On the entire panhandle of Florida and Alabama SFX only accepts one resort period, and it is on the bay in Destin. Not a single beachfront week anywhere on the panhandle is an acceptable deposit or exchange with SFX.

What a deal. QUIT RCI AND USE SFX EXCLUSIVELLY. What a joke. RCI has probably 40 resorts on the panhandle, SFX has one. Outside of California and Hawaii the acceptable locations for SFX are VERY limited. In addition to not accepting my panhandle weeks, SFX also doesn't accept accept my Gold Crown Gatlinburg weeks one of which is 4th of July every year. SFX is not accepting my North Carolina mountain weeks one which is 4th of July and one which is ski season, because SFX only accepts one resort in the NC mountains, and my resort is not that one. They don't accept my Alabama beach weeks because they accept zero Alabama beach weeks. They don't accept my Daytona Beach weeks which are bike week and typically rent for high dollars. Other than Hilton Head, SFX has a very small list of acceptable resorts and locations in the southeast. In the entire state of Tennessee SFX only accepts a TOTAL OF 4 resorts, only 2 of which are in Gatlinburg.

Out of 20 different weeks I own at 11 diferent resorts, SFX will ONLY ACCEPT MY ONE ARUBA WEEK FOR EXCHANGE!!!!! RCI will accept everything I own for exchange (but one which is an II only resort). Yeah let me quit RCI where I can deposit 19 of my 20 weeks for exchange and go to SFX exclusivelly where I can ONLY exchange my ONE ARUBA WEEK each year. What a deal.

If you have a week or weeks that SFX accepts, you can not trade for the Gulf panhandle beaches. You limit the resorts available to you in the North Carolina mountains, the Smoky Mountains, New orleans, etc, etc, etc. Panama City Beach was voted 12th best beach in the world this year by Trip Adviser travelers, but you will never trade for a week in Panama City using SFX. You will not trade for the new Wyndham in Gatlinburg.SFX only accepts one location on the favorite of yours, the OBX. You won't trade for much of the southeast nomatter how good your week is with SFX because they don't offer much in the southeast. On the othe hand you can trade for more places than you can ever visit in the southeast using RCI. RCI is much better for most exchanges and exchangers.

You love to say that SFX is better. but when RCI accepts and allows you to exchange for 1000's of resorts that SFX isn not interested in, the facts show why RCI is actually MUCH better for MOST people. You might not like the TPU's RCI assigns to some of your weeks, but at least RCI will accept them for exchange. I would much rather get 12 TPU's for depositing my week with RCI than have SFX tell me that they don't want my week at all. I would also much rather trade for a Panama City ocean front week in RCI like I did last week than not be able to trade for a week there EVER because SFX doesn't do that area. RCI has 1000's of more locations that SFX for deposut and trade. RCI IS MUCH BETTER for most owners.

 

[bilfbr245]

Several on this thread have made disparaging comments about Carolinian. I feel I must spring to his defense here and say that I find his posts to be more than acceptable except for two very minor problems. The first, as suggested by others, is that many of his views seem to reflect a deeply set and pervasive bias, and that he seems to be more or less incapable of escaping the effects of this bias to analyze information in an objective fashion. It may be true, as many of you suggest, that this renders most of his views erroneous, and that therefore it would be detrimental to readers if they followed his advice. However, I see little risk of this happening because the flaws in his logic are usually quite self evident, and would be apparent to even poorly informed readers.

The second problem I have, also very minor, is that if you examine his posts closely enough, you can almost detect a strain that might be called uncivil or abrasive. Such a small point really that I almost hesitate to mention it. While this is certainly off-putting to any reader who places a value on polite discourse, I am sure that most mature readers are able to ignore this unpleasant feature in his posts.

And again, except for these very minor issues, I find his posts to be very acceptable, and hope that he will continue to provide us with many more.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

The second problem I have, also very minor, is that if you examine his posts closely enough, you can almost detect a strain that might be called uncivil or abrasive. Such a small point really that I almost hesitate to mention it. While this is certainly off-putting to any reader who places a value on polite discourse, I am sure that most mature readers are able to ignore this unpleasant feature in his posts.

And again, except for these very minor issues, I find his posts to be very acceptable, and hope that he wil continue to provide us with many more.

I know exactly what you mean.

Shux, I have a bit of that same tendency myself.

Click here for a musical interpretation.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[MuranoJo]

IMO, Manhattan Club is not a good example of what's better about the new system. In fact, for years before 'the change,' many of us got in using fairly weak deposits--but we used Sightings and jumped on it. And now the transparent value is 60 or so, and not worth it to me.

However, bottom line, I do like the new system much better. The $99 to combine and extend for two years is much better than the previous fees which were about double just to extend for one year. Overall, the flexibility is much improved.

 

[Carolinian]

The best value in using independent exchange companies is to join a mix of them, not just one. I have gotten some great exchanges in Europe, the US, and the Caribbean using DAE, but I recently joined SFX and deposited a week with them to add another dimension. They have a resort affiliated with them in London, the ultimate high demand / low supply timeshare destination, that booted RCI out the door and now uses SFX as their principal exchange company. I will probably join UKRE, too.

How is Manhattan Club a good deal for anyone but RCI itself?
~30+ points lite to deposit a week
60 points lite to trade in
How is that fair or honest for either the member who deposits or the one who trades in?
Manhattan Club is the opposite of overbuilt Orlando, where RCI hands out points lite like candy to members who deposit but charges significantly less to exchange in.

Yes it is much better. Would I like to pay 30 TPU's for Manhattan club? Absolutelly, but that is not an option. I would also like to get 60 TPU's for every one of my deposits and only pay 15 TPU's for everyone else's. Thatis not an option either.

Why is it better? Simple. I deposited a week that I get 45 TPU's for and a week I get 35 TPU's for, paid $99 to combine them giving me a total of 80 TPU's, and I now can exchange for The Manhattan Club IF IT IS WORTH IT TO ME TO PAY 60 TPU"S for a one bed unit and I will have 20 TPU's eft over to trade for another week or 2. Under the old system neither one of these trades would have gotten Manhattan Club by themselves. So under the old system I could have deposited 2, 3,4 ,or even 5 weeks and none of them would have gotten Manahattan Club. I had to deposit my weeks under the old system and HOPE that my week fell into a magical unknown "band" that would see Mahattan Club. Now I know what my week is worth, what the Manhattan Club costs to trade for, and I can combine weeks and trade for NY IF it is worth it to me.

Explain to me how it was better under the old system. I can tell you it was only better under the old system for the FEW experts who had tiger traders perpetually deposited and knew how to use them. I can't tell you how many times I saw a week at Manhattan Club, Hawaii, St John, Aruba, St Lucia, HGVC, or some other hard to find location listed on sightings and I would run to RCI and COULDN"T SEE ANY AVAILABILITY. I would PM the TUGGER who listed it and ask them if it was still there, and they would say yes. I would deposit what I considered to be a better week and still couldn't see it. I would PM them again and it was gone. Now I know what is available without depositing anything, I know what the Manahattan Club, HGVC, Hawaii, St Jhn, Aruba, etc, etc, will cost me, and I CAN EXCHANGE FOR IT BY COMBINING IF I FEEL IT IS WORTH IT TO ME. I NOW HAVE AN OPTION I DIDN"T HAVE BEFORE. How is that not BETTER?

Now before you say SFX trades for Manhattan Club, HGVC, Hawaii, StJohn, Aruba, Europe, and other hard to trade for places one for one as though it is a fact, let's be honest because it is not a fact for most TUGGERS. Unless you own in California or Hawaii,and unless you want to exchange for California or Hawaii, using SFX is not a good option.The 2 deposits I made worth 45 TPU's and 35 TPU's in RCI are both on the Florida panhandle. SFX will not accept either exchange for deposit. So how can I use the great independent SFX to exchange one for one for New York, Aruba, Hawaii, HGVC, St John, Sanibel Island,europe, etc,etc, when they won't accept my weeks? I CAN"T!

Let's look at what I mainly own which is in the southeast because I mainly purchase weeks at locations I can drive to. SFX will not accept any of my Panama City Beach weeks and none of my Destin weeks for exchange, but RCI gladly will and give me good values for them allowing me to exchange them for locations all over the world. SFX won't let me exchange them for anything anywhere. I can't deposit my Orange Beach 4th of July oceanfront week which is an unbelievably valuable week as there are only 2 resorts in Orange beach. On the entire panhandle of Florida and Alabama SFX only accepts one resort period, and it is on the bay in Destin. Not a single beachfront week anywhere on the panhandle is an acceptable deposit or exchange with SFX.

What a deal. QUIT RCI AND USE SFX EXCLUSIVELLY. What a joke. RCI has probably 40 resorts on the panhandle, SFX has one. Outside of California and Hawaii the acceptable locations for SFX are VERY limited. In addition to not accepting my panhandle weeks, SFX also doesn't accept accept my Gold Crown Gatlinburg weeks one of which is 4th of July every year. SFX is not accepting my North Carolina mountain weeks one which is 4th of July and one which is ski season, because SFX only accepts one resort in the NC mountains, and my resort is not that one. They don't accept my Alabama beach weeks because they accept zero Alabama beach weeks. They don't accept my Daytona Beach weeks which are bike week and typically rent for high dollars. Other than Hilton Head, SFX has a very small list of acceptable resorts and locations in the southeast. In the entire state of Tennessee SFX only accepts a TOTAL OF 4 resorts, only 2 of which are in Gatlinburg.

Out of 20 different weeks I own at 11 diferent resorts, SFX will ONLY ACCEPT MY ONE ARUBA WEEK FOR EXCHANGE!!!!! RCI will accept everything I own for exchange (but one which is an II only resort). Yeah let me quit RCI where I can deposit 19 of my 20 weeks for exchange and go to SFX exclusivelly where I can ONLY exchange my ONE ARUBA WEEK each year. What a deal.

You love to say that SFX is better. but when RCI accepts and allows you to exchange for 1000's of resorts that SFX isn not interested in, the facts show why RCI is actually MUCH better for MOST people. You might not like the TPU's RCI assigns to some of your weeks, but at least RCI will accept them for exchange. I would much rather get 12 TPU's for depositing my week with RCI than have SFX tell me that they don't want my week at all. I would also much rather trade for a Panama City ocean front week in RCI like I did last week than not be able to trade for a week there EVER because SFX doesn't do that area. RCI has 1000's of more locations that SFX for deposut and trade. RCI IS MUCH BETTER for most owners.

 

[Carolinian]

There is a big difference between some of those who post here on one hand and those who used to post on the old TimeshareBeat / Street Talk site. There those who participated were mostly people involved in the timeshare industry, not timeshare owners who exchanged like here. Those in the industry, even those working in Orlando, would never deny the assertion that Orlando or certain other areas were overbuilt in timeshare. In fact, I remember some interesting discussions about what other areas might be on a trajectory to become overbuilt.

In my early days on this site, one of the more frequent posters was Fletch, who was regarded as one of the more astute timeshare experts on TUG. He even wrote regular columns on timesharing. Fletch quit TUG when he took a job in the timeshare industry, feeling that it would be a conflict of interest to continue to post, something I disagreed with as I thought that TUG would have still benefitted from his continued involvement. Fletch frequently commented on these boards about Orlando being overbuilt and part of his common buying advice was not to buy there for that reason.

Now we have a small but very shrill band on TUG of two overlapping groups, one who owns or has other connections to Orlando, and another which is head over heels in love with Points Lite and everything about it. Both are in full fledged denial that Orlando is overbuilt. Sort of like flat-earthers. They can't or won't get their heads around the reality that when there is just too much of something, no matter how good they and others may think it is, it's value is less than something for which there is more demand than supply. It is really a simple principle of economics, but they just don't get it.

When denialism means some will ignore the most simple principles of economics, it makes discussion difficult. Maybe that is why the most shrill of them has to so frequently resort to ad hominem personal attacks.

 

[tombo]

The best value in using independent exchange companies is to join a mix of them, not just one. I have gotten some great exchanges in Europe, the US, and the Caribbean using DAE, but I recently joined SFX and deposited a week with them to add another dimension. They have a resort affiliated with them in London, the ultimate high demand / low supply timeshare destination, that booted RCI out the door and now uses SFX as their principal exchange company. I will probably join UKRE, too.

How is Manhattan Club a good deal for anyone but RCI itself?
~30+ points lite to deposit a week
60 points lite to trade in
How is that fair or honest for either the member who deposits or the one who trades in?
Manhattan Club is the opposite of overbuilt Orlando, where RCI hands out points lite like candy to members who deposit but charges significantly less to exchange in.

Get over the Manhattan Club and Orlando as the primary reason(s) to hate RCI. RCI has more locations worldwide than any other exchange company, and more inventory than all of the independents combined. I have yet to stay at the Manhattan Club, and Orlando is very low on my list of places to travel. I don't own an Orlando week. When I look at exchanges in RCI these are not my favorites or the standards which I base my exchange successes on.

You deftly ignore the fact that SFX accepts very few resorts in the US in the southeast while RCI accepts hundreds. You ignore the FACT that out of 11 resorts I own IN THE US IN THE SOUTHEAST at high demand locations (none of which are Orlando), SFX only accepts one for exchange. You instead trot out a London resort that you say is high demand which is no longer RCI. 10 of my 11 resorts are exchanged within RCI. 1 of my 11 resorts is SFX. You have one London resort not with RCI anymore which I am sure is now in II as SFX has no exclusive resorts.. That in a nutshell is the difference between the 2. RCI has the far majority of resorts that SFX offers for exchange available for exchange. SFX has a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of the resorts RCI offers available for deposit and/or exchange. I can get almost any SFX resort/location exchanging through RCI. There are entire destinations that you can't get using SFX that you can easily get using RCI. RCI is the easy choice with more inventory, more locations, more resorts, and more availability.

You own an England resort few of us care about which is not in RCI. Take a quick poll here and see how many TUGGERS are going to the mountains in the southeast this summer, how many are going to a beach in the southeast this summer, how many are going to orlando this summer and compare it to how many are going to London this summer. I bet the demand for the US dwarfs the demand for London. SFX has a niche market, but virtually every resort that SFX offers for exchange is offered by RCI. If it is not offered by RCI it is offered by II. SFX has ZERO EXCLUSIVE RESORTS.

Of course DAE is a great alternative to RCI to you also. Not if you look at facts. Currently in the US there are 68,639 weeks available for exchange using RCI. In DAE there are 128 weeks TOTAL for exchange in the entire US in all of 2011 and 2012. I am a member of DAE, but anyone can check availability for free without joining. There is ONE beach week in the south available for 2011 in the entire US in DAE, and it is in Tampa in August. There is not one week currently available in DAE for Tennessee, North Carolina, or South Carolina. The places I typically vacation have ZERO availability in DAE for the next 2 years. Let me quit RCI and use them. That would be a really smart move.

In RCI currently there are 10's of 1000's of beach weeks available in RCI (over 8000 beach weeks in Florida alone with 730 on the panhandle,4358 southern atlantic coast, 2888 northern Atlantic coast, etc, etc,), 2339 weeks available in North Carolina, 3345 weeks available in South Carolina, 1483 weeks available in Tennessee, etc,etc, etc.

The independents can on occassion for some locations get people the trades they want, but to suggest that they are as good or better than RCI is ignoring facts. I will take my chances on RCI which has current availability in hundreds of locations I want for dates I am interested in, over SFX which doesn't accept most of my weeks or destinations for exchange or deposit, and over DAE which currently has zero availability for the places I am looking to travel.

For any who are on the fence, log onto DAE and see if where you want to go is available, and look at SFX and see if they accept the weeeks you own for deposit and if they have availability in locations/resorts you want to travel to. For some SFX will work, especially California and Hawaii exchangers, and DAE might RARELLY have a week you want available, but day in and day out more people will have success getting the exchanges they want through RCI than all of the independents combined. The theory of using independent exchange companies and dumping RCI sounds good, however the facts show that for most people to do so would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Carolinian]

While DAE and SFX work for me, others may do better to add HTSE, Platinum, or Trading Places. And I know that DAE can get me a lot of places that RCI cannot. With most exchange companies, one gets the best exchanges with ongoing requests rather than finding it online. That has been true for me with both DAE and RCI.

Hey, you were the one who brought up Manhattan Club as your big example. Now you are walking it back. Guess it was not such a good example after all, now was it?

SFX accepts more resorts than are on their list. If in doubt, call and ask them. And BTW, Sloan Garden Court, which kicked RCI out the door, is not a resort I own at, but one I plan to trade into.

As to London being ultra high demand, ultra low supply, not only did Bootleg acknowledge that but RCI, institutionally, has as well. I am sure you are familiar with the VIP program that allows HOA board members and resort managers to trade into any week RCI has availible by putting up any week of the same size and color code. In the entire world, there is only one area ring fenced where you cannot trade in with VIP because of the extreme low supply and extreme high demand among RCI members. That one area in the world is London, England. Someone in the priveleged group can use VIP to get into New York, San Francisco, Key West, Charleston, San Diego, Paris, or Venice, but NOT London.

Get over the Manhattan Club and Orlando. I have yet to stay at the Manhattan Club, and Orlando is very low on my list of places to travel. I don't own an Orlando week. When I look at exchanges in RCI these are not my favorites or the standards which I base my exchange successes on.

You deftly ignore the fact that SFX accepts very few resorts in the US in the southeast while RCI accepts hundreds. You ignore the FACT that out of 11 resorts I own IN THE US IN THE SOUTHEAST at high demand locations (none of which are Orlando), SFX only accepts one for exchange. You instead trot out a London resort YOU OWN that you say is high demand which is no longer RCI. 10 of my 11 resorts are exchanged within RCI. 1 of my 11 resorts is SFX. You have one London resort not with RCI anymore. That in a nutshell is the difference between the 2. RCI has the far majority of resorts that SFX offers for exchange available for exchange. SFX has a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of the resorts RCI offers available for deposit and/or exchange. I can get almost any SFX resort/location exchanging through RCI. There are entire destinations that you can't get using SFX that you can easily get using RCI. RCI is the easy choice with more inventory, more locations, more resorts, and more availability.

You own an England resort few of us care about which is not in RCI. Take a quick poll here and see how many TUGGERS are going to the mountains in the southeast this summer, how many are going to a beach in the southeast this summer, how many are going to orlando this summer and compare it to how many are going to London this summer. I bet the demand for the US dwarfs the demand for London. SFX has a niche market, but virtually every resort that SFX offers for exchange is offered by RCI. If it is not offered by RCI it is offered by II. SFX has ZERO EXCLUSIVE RESORTS.

Of course DAE is a great alternative to RCI to you also. Not if you look at facts. Currently in the US there are 68,639 weeks available for exchange using RCI. In DAE there are 128 weeks TOTAL for exchange in the entire US in all of 2011 and 2012. I am a member of DAE, but anyone can check availability for free without joining. There is ONE beach week in the south available for 2011 in the entire US in DAE, and it is in Tampa in August. There is not one week currently available in DAE for Tennessee, North Carolina, or South Carolina. The places I typically vacation have ZERO availability in DAE for the next 2 years. Let me quit RCI and use them. That would be a really smart move.

In RCI currently there are 10's of 1000's of beach weeks available in RCI (over 8000 beach weeks in Florida alone with 730 on the panhandle,4358 southern atlantic coast, 2888 northern Atlantic coast, etc, etc,), 2339 weeks available in North Carolina, 3345 weeks available in South Carolina, 1483 weeks available in Tennessee, etc,etc, etc.

The independents can on occassion for some locations get people the trades they want, but to suggest that they are as good or better than RCI is ignoring facts. I will take my chances on RCI which has currently availability in hundreds of locations I want for dates I am interested in, over SFX which doesn't accept most of my weeks or destinations for exchange or deposit, and over DAE which currently has zero availability for the places I am looking to travel.

For any who are on the fence, log onto DAE and see if where you want to go is available, and look at SFX and see if they accept the weeeks you own for deposit and if they have availability in locations/resorts you want to travel to. For some SFX will work, especially California and Hawaii exchangers, and DAE might RARELLY have a week you want available, but day in and day out more people will have success getting the exchanges they want through RCI than all of the independents combined. The theory of using independent exchange companies and dumping RCI sounds good, however the facts show that for most people to do so would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[tombo]

While DAE and SFX work for me, others may do better to add HTSE, Platinum, or Trading Places. And I know that DAE can get me a lot of places that RCI cannot. With most exchange companies, one gets the best exchanges with ongoing requests rather than finding it online. That has been true for me with both DAE and RCI.

Hey, you were the one who brought up Manhattan Club as your big example. Now you are walking it back. Guess it was not such a good example after all, now was it?

SFX accepts more resorts than are on their list. If in doubt, call and ask them. And BTW, Sloan Garden Court, which kicked RCI out the door, is not a resort I own at, but one I plan to trade into.

.

Manhattan Club is still a good example, but you grab one example and act as though that is the entire story. You are like a broken record. You attack it and nit pick it. If you can find some reason that Orlando or NY isn't good with RCI in your opinion, then you feel have won your case. That is not even close to correct. RCI has way too many locations/resorts to narrow the value of RCI to one or two cities. I expanded the discussion to show availability in the southeast, the mountains, and the beaches to show that RCI is head and shoulders above the independents for the places I go every year. I go to Hawaii sometimes, Aruba, sometimes, St Maarten, NY, etc, etc, sometimes, but EVERY year I travel the southeast. For me RCI is head and shoulders above any independent for my local trips. For Hawaii or some Islands, SFX might work well for me IF they will accept one or more of my weeks not on their list.

The Manhattan Club is too high IMO at 58 and 60 TPU's. That is why they are still sitting there. It is the demand and supply you so love. The demand is there, the supply is there, but the price point is to high so there is little demand at the TPU's being charged. On the other hand there are a couple of other NY resorts that showed up at half the price and they are almost all gone. Many exchanged for NY through RCI recently for sure because the other resorts inventory is almost gone. How many did successful exchanges for NY through the independents during the last few weeks? The RCI non Manhattan Club inventory has been flying off of the shelves and few weeks remain.

Unlike the independents where limited people make one exchange here and there, RCI completes hundreds of exchanges a day. People are excited and post about it when they get a good trade through an independent. When people get a good exchange using RCI few post about it because it is such a routine event.

As a member I HAVE THE OPTION to exchange for the Manhattan Club if I feel it is worth it. If the dates work and I have the points to combine, I can exchange for it. I know in advance what it costs me to do so. I can without a doubt exchange for a Manhattan Club week RIGHT NOW with RCI. Am I guaranteed a week at the Manhattan Club using SFX or DAE right now? Nope. All I can tell you for sure is that none are available now on DAE and there are many available on RCI. that is transparency and availability. Idf you don't like what RCI is charging, don't exchange for it. But having the option beats an independent where they have little or no availability.

You love transparency. I know what RCI will give me for my weeks before I deposit them. I know what is available and what it will cost me to exchange for it before I deposit or exchange using RCI. That is transparency. Why would I call SFX and see if they might take my weeks? Even if they take my weeks they will have little if any inventory in the areas I want to visit annually because they don't list them on their web site. I can't see whether or not SFX will take my week or what it will get me. No transparency. Little availability. Not an alternative other than for certain niche locations.

 

[Carolinian]

You say the new system tells you how much an exchange is going to cost you in Points Lite? Well, it would if it is sitting online. But NOT if it is an ongoing request. At Manhattan Club, RCI almost doubles the number of points lite they charge a member exchanging in over what they pay to a member depositing the same week. If you are putting in an ongoing request with RCI you are at their mercy for the same thing. The number they are currenly paying for deposits is not necessarily what they will charge you. It could be a lot more. It is a total crapshoot with RCI. With DAE or SFX or UKRE (or the old RCI Weeks), I know exactly what it is going to cost me, and that is one exchange credit. When it comes to ongoing requests, the new Points Lite is NOT transparent. On the contrary, it is a total shell game where they can charge you however many points lite they happen to feel like charging you.

And as I pointed out, in both DAE and RCI, most of my best exchanges have been from ongoing searches. They catch the best inventory before it ever gets online. Indeed, my summer UK weeks have always themselves been taken by ongoing searches with both DAE and RCI and never made it online at either. For example, I needed a specific resort and specific week in the Cayman Islands for my neice's honeymoon, and in about a week after my request, DAE got me the week and resort needed. Warm weather Ireland is a high demand and low supply area. I put in a request with DAE for a specific resort anytime between April and September. A few weeks later, they called and offered me any week I wanted at that resort between April and July, and I chose the one that fit in well with another trip I already had scheduled to the UK (actually another DAE exchange).

Manhattan Club is still a good example, but you grab one example and act as though that is the entire story. You are like a broken record. You attack it and nit pick it. If you can find some reason that Orlando or NY isn't good with RCI in your opinion, then you feel have won your case. That is not even close to correct. RCI has way too many locations/resorts to narrow the value of RCI to one or two cities. I expanded the discussion to show availability in the southeast, the mountains, and the beaches to show that RCI is head and shoulders above the independents for the places I go every year. I go to Hawaii sometimes, Aruba, sometimes, St Maarten, NY, etc, etc, sometimes, but EVERY year I travel the southeast. For me RCI is head and shoulders above any independent for my local trips. For Hawaii or some Islands, SFX might work well for me.

The Manhattan Club is too high IMO at 58 and 60 TPU's. That is why they are still sitting there. It is the demand and supply you so love. The demand is there, the supply is there, but the price point is to high so there is little demand at the TPU's being charged. On the other hand there are a couple of other resorts that showed up at half the price and they are almost all gone. Yes that was exchanging for NY through RCI too, and many did it successfully recently. Not one exchange here and there, hundreds a day.

As a member I HAVE THE OPTION to exchange for the Manhattan Club if I feel it is worth it. If the dates work and I have the points to combine, I can exchange for it. I know in advance what it costs me to do so. I can without a doubt exchange for a Manhattan Club week RIGHT NOW with RCI. Am I guaranteed a week at the Manhattan Club using SFX or DAE? Nope. All I can tell you for sure is that none are available now on DAE and there are many available on RCI. that is transparency and availability. Idf you don't like what RCI is charging, don't exchange for it. But having the option beats an independent where they have little or no availability.

You love transparency. I know what RCI will give me for my weeks before I deposit them. I know what is available and what it will cost me to exchange for it before I deposit or exchange using RCI. That is transparency. Why would I call SFX and see if they might take my weeks? Even if they take my weeks they will have little if any inventory in the areas I want to visit annually because they don't list them on their web site. I can't see whether or not SFX will take my week or what it will get me. No transparency. Little availability. Not an alternative other than for certain niche locations.

 

[vckempson]

Not sure if you can get to this page directly. If not, there's an "RCI Weeks Program Activity" link from the "My Account" tab that shows how many weeks are deposited vs taken by RCI members. It further breaks this down into TPU categories. What you see is that only half the weeks deposited get exchanged into. It holds true for high value weeks just as much as low value weeks.

http://www.rci.com/RCI/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_Program_Activity

That's an aweful lot of excess inventory that's sitting there unused. If trading patterns remained consistent, you could theoretically give all depositors twice as many points on deposit as it cost to get back in. That would generate twice the trades which would then soak up the inventory.

The amount of points given and taken are clearly not a zero sum game. With some places getting more TPU's on deposit than it costs to get back in, it would appear that RCI is trying to get more trades and soak up that excess inventory. That would help to explain why they added "utilization" as an input, thus allowing more points than you might otherwise get on deposit. It also suggests that there's more than enough to rent out, without taking weeks away from those who want to trade into them.

Obviously, that's based on a macro view without having any information for specific resorts. If we had that level of information, it might contradict these general conclusions.

 

[Carolinian]

I am sure that in overbuilt areas, there is more than enough to rent out and still let everyone get trades. That is not however true in other areas in prime or semi-prime times. OBX beachfront resorts always had more exchange demand than deposits in summer and at least equal to demand from Spring Break through Thanksgiving. When RCI started renting exchange deposits, it was those hard to get summer weeks that there was more exchange demand than supply that they were primarily renting to the general public. Also, Bootleg and Anon both told us that it was the high demand weeks that were so often shifted in the RCI rental pool. Since Points Lite does not always track supply and demand, that is not a measurement I would use on their rentals. Times and places where there is more exchange demand than there is exchange supply should NOT be rented PERIOD.

In the last few years, I have been much more inclined to attend the welcome meetings early in the timeshare week than I used to be. I attended one at a UK resort where I had a DAE exchange. Only one other exchange family was there and they were American having come in through RCI. After talking about the resort and the area, there was some general conversation. One of the Brits who owned there asked us exchangers how much trouble we had in trading in. The RCI couple said they had been trying for a couple of years and felt lucky to get in. I had had much less of a wait with DAE. Then the Brits started talking about how exchanging through RCI had gone downhill over the past years and it was a lot harder than it used to be to get good trades. Some of them knew that RCI rentals were to blame, but I was the only one who knew about the class action in the US. All of the Brits said they no longer deposited UK resorts to RCI because exchanges had gotten so bad, but a couple still gave RCI deposits from weeks they owned in the Canary Islands. Over half the Brits were familiar with DAE and used it when they wanted to exchange. Those not familiar were making notes. But they really did not need to. The resort had the printed DAE directory and the latest copy of the DAE magazine in all the units. Clearly these owners had seen RCI exchanges go to hell in a handbasket since RCI had started its rentals. In contrast, I attended a similar meeting at an Irish resort affiliated with II where I again had exchanged in through DAE, and the only other exchangers were a pair of older ladies from South Aftica who had also exchanged in through DAE. The others present were all Seasons members, but many said they used II for exchanges and none seemed to have any problem with it. The contrast between the two groups as to how they viewed their affiliated exchange company and the trades they could get could not have been greater. At the UK resort, I later was talking to a member of the resort administrative staff who told me that the resort had several years before set up a program to help owners rent their weeks, and the reason for that was the growing complaints that members could no longer get the trades they had been getting through RCI. She also said that another result was that a lot more owners were now using their weeks instead of exchanging them.

Not sure if you can get to this page directly. If not, there's an "RCI Weeks Program Activity" link from the "My Account" tab that shows how many weeks are deposited vs taken by RCI members. It further breaks this down into TPU categories. What you see is that only half the weeks deposited get exchanged into. It holds true for high value weeks just as much as low value weeks.

http://www.rci.com/RCI/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_Program_Activity

That's an aweful lot of excess inventory that's sitting there unused. If trading patterns remained consistent, you could theoretically give all depositors twice as many points on deposit as it cost to get back in. That would generate twice the trades which would then soak up the inventory.

The amount of points given and taken are clearly not a zero sum game. With some places getting more TPU's on deposit than it costs to get back in, it would appear that RCI is trying to get more trades and soak up that excess inventory. That would help to explain why they added "utilization" as an input, thus allowing more points than you might otherwise get on deposit. It also suggests that there's more than enough to rent out, without taking weeks away from those who want to trade into them.

Obviously, that's based on a macro view without having any information for specific resorts. If we had that level of information, it might contradict these general conclusions.

 

[Joe M.]

The graphs do not show member deposits or exchanges.

The dark bars show additional RCI weeks which do not come from member deposits. These would include developer weeks and possibly other sources.

The light grey bars show how many weeks deposited by members were rented or used for purposes other than exchange.

RCI is only showing that they put more weeks into the pool from outside sources than they take out when they rent member deposits. They are also showing that they do not skim off high TP units and replace them with low TP units.

RCI actually had 2.1 million exchanges total in 2009 including Weeks and Points, with 1.35 million exchanges on the Weeks side.

 

[Carolinian]

I guess that includes things like the expensive all-inclusives that do not seem to be timeshare that they have now included in the Caribbean and the trailer park ''resorts'' they have included in continental Europe which also do not seem to be timeshares.

As far as points lite numbers go, that is not a valid test as they can be renting out the underpointed but high demand weeks and replacing them with the overpointed overbuilt areas. In fact, they may explain the reason for the underpointing to begin with.

On the OBX, RCI is renting the heck out of the hugely demanded summer weeks that members want to exchange into but aren't putting anything back for those who want summer OBX. Maybe they are putting back things that there is too much of like Orlando and Masanutten.

An RCI employee posting over at TimeshareTalk, Anon, was asked about what RCI put back to replace weeks taken out of the Weeks system for Points members and he responded that they did not put anything at all back. Given, that I do not think it is belevable that RCi would put like for like back. And equal points lite is often light years away from being like for like.

What is really needed is legislation to include rentals in the disclosure booklets that exchange companies are required to give to timeshare purchasers and exchange companies which rent should have their feet held to the fire and be required to be detailed and specific.

The graphs do not show member deposits or exchanges.

The dark bars show additional RCI weeks which do not come from member deposits. These would include developer weeks and possibly other sources.

The light grey bars show how many weeks deposited by members were rented or used for purposes other than exchange.

RCI is only showing that they put more weeks into the pool from outside sources than they take out when they rent member deposits. They are also showing that they do not skim off high TP units and replace them with low TP units.

RCI actually had 2.1 million exchanges total in 2009 including Weeks and Points, with 1.35 million exchanges on the Weeks side.

 

[vckempson]

The graphs do not show member deposits or exchanges.

The dark bars show additional RCI weeks which do not come from member deposits. These would include developer weeks and possibly other sources.

The light grey bars show how many weeks deposited by members were rented or used for purposes other than exchange.

RCI is only showing that they put more weeks into the pool from outside sources than they take out when they rent member deposits. They are also showing that they do not skim off high TP units and replace them with low TP units.

RCI actually had 2.1 million exchanges total in 2009 including Weeks and Points, with 1.35 million exchanges on the Weeks side.

You're absolutely correct Joe. I misinterpreted that. Looking at the explanation below the graph, though, it does seem that almost half the deposited weeks go unused. Here are the 2009 figures for the weeks program.

1.4 million - member deposits
585,000 - other deposits (developer weeks most likely)
741,000 - Total exchanges.
247,000 - Rented out
620,000 - Totally unused

(numbers rounded off so they might not quite add up)

The low TPU weeks had the highest percentage not used but even the high TPU weeks had about 18% go completely unused. Not counting developer deposits only a little over half of the high TPU weeks were taken as exchanges.

 

[Carolinian]

As to ''other deposits'', developer deposits are undoubtedly included, but some of the other big ones are:

1) Landal resorts - a non-timeshre chain of rental resorts in the countryside in Europe. Landal is owned by Wyndham, so they just slide over the weeks they do not expect to rent. The resorts are fine if you just want to be in the green countryside, but are not that well located for sightseeing, skiing, beach, etc.
2) Trailer Park ''resorts'' - these show up for European members, but I am not sure that they do for US members - these appear to be mostly or entirely non-timeshare and are located in places like France and Italy - not sure if there is any ownership connection between Wyndham and the trailer parks. Some are decently located for other activities, but did people really buy timeshare in order to stay in a trailer park?
3) Wyndham hotels - non-timeshare, where Wyndham just slides over excess hotel week they do not expect to rent; mostly in the US but also in Europe. Hey, wasn't one of the original selling points of timeshare that you wanted ''more than just a hotel room''?
4) non-timeshare properties with high AI fees - these are largely in the Caribbean but with some elsewhere and some appear to be nice resorts. One wonders how much if anything RCI gives to the owners of these resorts for this inventory. They may be excess weeks where the owner is happy to get the high AI fee to at least break even. For exchangers, high AI's are often a deal breaker.

And for replacement inventory such as this, RCI is diverting and renting summer beach timeshare weeks that they are not replacing with anything comparable?

 

[ampaholic]

RCI actually had 2.1 million exchanges total in 2009 including Weeks and Points, with 1.35 million exchanges on the Weeks side.

Holy :ignore: batman. 2.1 million times $149 - $179 !! I'm in the wrong business

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed Another Mouthful.

2.1 million times $149 - $179 !! I'm in the wrong business

Not only that, RCI doesn't pay anything for the inventory -- gets it all el freebo from dues-paying RCI members.

With those numbers, it's easy to understand why even card-carrying capitalists get groused off at RCI's price-gouging ways -- jacking up rates & fees & narrowing the Instant Exchange opportunity window, etc. -- when instead they could be increasing profits by cutting prices to jack up volume.

Shux upon'm.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Carolinian]

To give another example that does not include an overbuilt US area, where some owners get their panties in a twist and go ballistic on this forum, let me mention some overpointing in England. While the high demand times and locations in England have been systematically underpointed, there is a curious group that goes the other way.

RCI followed DAE in allowing vacation cottage owners to deposit weeks into the timeshare exchange system, but unlike DAE limits it to certain countries. One is the UK. Indeed if you look at RCI's online directory for the UK, it is hard to pick out the real timeshares because there are so many of those cottages shown and no way to seperate them. At least the DAE online directory allows one to look at only timeshare resorts or only cottages. Another difference is that while the majority of DAE cottage deposits are in warm season, most of RCI's are in deep off season. I am told that the cottage exchanges do not show on the US RCI site but RCI Europe shows a boatload of them in November and early December but almost none any other time of the year.

These are cottages are sometimes second homes for the owners but more often are vacation cottages that the owners rent out for most of the year. November and early December are the low point in the tourism calendar in the UK with short daylight hours, poor weather, and many sights outside the big cities closed. It is a time owners are unlikely to be able to rent them, so they deposit them with RCI. Even better for the owners, since they all deposit over the same six week period, very few of the weeks will ever be taken as exchanges or even RCI rentals. Essentially, the owners take something they would normally get no return on and use it to get RCI points lite. At worst they may have a cleaning fee and some utilities (but heck they may even charge those to anyone checking in) IF someone happens to take their week.

What was interesting was to pull a couple of ''resort numbers'' off the first page of RCI's availibility list for England for a couple of these cottages and feed them into the RCI Deposit Calculator for this November / December timeframe. One came up as 17 and one as 19.

It an owner of one of these cottages deposited 3 weeks during this low value period, and combined the numbers they would have 51 points lite or 57 points lite. This is at no cost to them other than the combining fee. Heck they could even deposit 4, 5, or 6 of these low value weeks and combine them and have even higher numbers and compete with timeshare owners for high value inventory.

One should easily see how giving these points lite away like candy can distort the exchange system. Timesharers with weeks of genuine value have to compete with punters like these cottage owners who ae playing the system.

I posted an interesting comparision on a European site for points lite values within England. I compared a ''cottage'' that was a studio in a barn in November on one hand, with a summer week in a 2BR unit in a hard to get gold crown resort in the same region of England on the other. The off season barn studio was given almost as many points lite as the high season 2BR in a gold crown real timeshare resort. After exposing that, I went back and looked again and RCI knocked back the numbers on the barn studio twice, but even so it was still too high relative to the high season week.

The overpointing within Points Lite is hardly limited to overbuilt areas in the US.

 

[MichaelColey]

If half of deposits go unused, it makes perfect sense to "overpoint" deposits. RCI makes their money off of exchange fees, and overpointing helps them get more exchanges. People are more likely to deposit (because they'll get more "points") and more likely to exchange (because they can get multiple exchanges for their "points").

 

[timeos2]

There are resorts and areas that have 50 weeks of use!

To give another example that does not include an overbuilt US area, where some owners get their panties in a twist and go ballistic on this forum, let me mention some overpointing in England. While the high demand times and locations in England have been systematically underpointed, there is a curious group that goes the other way..

It apparently REALLY galls Carolinian that there are areas that have the natural ability to have nearly year round value and repeat visitors without requiring subsidies from poor value week owners and/or artificial life support from trade companies. And it also infuriates him that the vast majority of US travelers couldn't care less if there are over or under valued times in Europe - at best they may in a lifetime visit once or twice as a special trip unlikely to be the typical 7 day timeshare unit stay. Also the panty twist must be really tight when he sees that bad weather times in virtually one trick areas like Hilton Head, Ocean City or OBX can't be given away while developers had continued to build ever nicer resorts in warmer areas that almost seem to have no end to the amount of inventory that gets absorbed by high demand. That trading values reflect what people want to do not what he thinks they should want and where!

Focusing on things as they were a decade or two ago, bemoaning the alleged "insiders" as THE SOLE SOURCE of any reliable information regarding RCI and the never ending shouts of "overbuilt! overbuilt!"(and may we add "The US aren't coming to the British"), that the explosion of the internet as both a source of information as well as easy rentals had no impact - it was ALL RCI's fault -aren't things we will ever change his view on. Accept it for what it's worth. Steve is a very knowledgeable and passionate consumer and timeshare advocate. But realize unless you too want ONLY a beach week no matter how shabby the units, what the weather or cost, European or other limited areas exclusively your experience isn't going to parallel his. And don't forget that eBay isn't a factor in resales (yeah, right).

As previously stated the change to open valuations at RCI, or "points lite", may have opened the true "golden age" of timesharing. Ignoring it or wallowing in what supposedly once was vs learning to fully utilize this great new opportunity is a real waste of time and effort. Read the opinions, factor them in and then do what's best for YOU and how YOU travel. I couldn't care less if there were never a deposit in December from some converted motel on the beach or if a cottage or penthouse is or isn't available in London or Paris - I'm not going there! Likely never will just like the vast majority of US travelers. Sorry that means we don't care how little value RCI gives to those places and times, but we don't. It's that simple. I worry about and try to maximize what I actually DO want to use and trade. That matters to me. RCI has had the most to offer and the new system makes it a better value overall IMO.

 

[vckempson]

The Master Plan!!!

Deleted. Oops, Posted in wrong thread.

 

[Carolinian]

If half of deposits go unused, it makes perfect sense to "overpoint" deposits. RCI makes their money off of exchange fees, and overpointing helps them get more exchanges. People are more likely to deposit (because they'll get more "points") and more likely to exchange (because they can get multiple exchanges for their "points").

For exchangers, however it is like the ''Quantitative Easing'' (running the dollar printing presses) by the treasury and its impact on those holding dollars. While timeshare points are not currency, the effect is largely the same. Those holding weeks with real value - the high demand / low supply weeks - see the value of those weeks degraded by RCI's overpointing of weeks for which there is a glut. And just like those holding US dollars have been looking for other currencies to hold instead, the Swiss franc, Oz dollar, Canadian dollar, etc., holders of high value timeshares are going to be looking for other things to do with them - other exchange companies, using rather than exchanging, renting, selling, etc. - rather than continuing to use an exchange system that cheats them.

And I suspect that middling pointed weeks combining and going after the high value weeks, even going after many that are underpointed where they don't even have to combine, is going to happen a lot more than high value owners going slumming and taking multiple low pointed weeks. That means the high value weeks will find it harder to get like for like and it will drive them to places like SFX where they CAN get like for like.

But as usual, our perspectives are quite different. You, as usual, look at it from RCI's perspective. My perspecitve is that of the individual member and the HOA's.

 

[Carolinian]

Amazing, I try to give detail on an example of overpointing on the other side of the pond, and John answers by defending his own overbuilt area, Orlando.

If I were an Orlando HOA board member like you, I would probably be defending it as passionately as you do. But everyone in timeshare who is not wearing the Orlando rose colored glasses knows Orlando is overbuilt. The reason a blue week from anywhere could trade in there is because they have the same supply / demand curve, so it is really a like for like trade. What you always want to ignore is the supply side. Yes, lots of people want to go there, but there is just a lot more supply than even those people can fill in the exchange system. You never want to look at the whole picture.

And get real on your ''subsidy'' argument within resorts. As long as every week pays its proportion of expenses, every week is pulling its own weight. There is NO subsidy. What you have been proposing is that the high demand weeks subsidize the lower demand weeks by shouldering part of their expenses. If I were a developer starting a new project, I might actually consider that to help sell the off season weeks, but it is totally unrealistic to expect existing resorts to do that. The current arrangement is NOT a subsidy situation. What you propose, however, IS.

As to being a ''golden age of timesharing'', it may well be, for now, until RCI makes another major change, to those in overbuilt areas that have a glut of excess exchange inventory but have nonetheless been overpointed in the new system. For those with high demand / low supply weeks that have been underpointed, however, it looks more like Fools Gold. People like the formerly active Tugger who has posted on another timeshare board about his tiger trader that was always taken by an ongoing search before it hit online inventory (a rare event indeed for Orlando) that used to get SW Fla 1-for-1 for 15 tears straight under the old system but now with Points Lite takes 4 (FOUR) weeks to get one in SW Fla. People like the fellow moderator on that same board whose tiger trader (again a US week) ended up in Points Lite with half the points lite of her other weeks.

I think you are going to be seeing a lot more attitudes with the owners of high demand / llow supply weeks like those of the Brits I described in another post at the welcome meeting at a UK resort I traded into. That was before Points Lite, but their RCI trading had already been so degraded by RCI's rentals, that none of them were depositing UK weeks to RCI anymore. Some used their weeks at the resort and sometimes they used DAE, but not RCI. I looked at the Points Lite awarded to that resort, and they got hosed in that department by RCI, too.

I think you will even see more attitudes like one of the longtime leaders of the organization of European RCI Points members MORPS (Members Of RCI Points) whose user name on the European timeshare site is even a takeoff on the MORPS name. He has posted that he has already removed four of his weeks from RCI Points and moved them to DAE, and that he is in the process of removing his final week from RCI Points to give it to DAE. While he has not detailed the spedifics of his reasoning, he does say that he is getting better value from DAE and is pleased with his trades there. When a leader of a group that has long been beating the drums for RCI Points makes a move like that, it speaks volumes.

It apparently REALLY galls Carolinian that there are areas that have the natural ability to have nearly year round value and repeat visitors without requiring subsidies from poor value week owners and/or artificial life support from trade companies. And it also infuriates him that the vast majority of US travelers couldn't care less if there are over or under valued times in Europe - at best they may in a lifetime visit once or twice as a special trip unlikely to be the typical 7 day timeshare unit stay. Also the panty twist must be really tight when he sees that bad weather times in virtually one trick areas like Hilton Head, Ocean City or OBX can't be given away while developers had continued to build ever nicer resorts in warmer areas that almost seem to have no end to the amount of inventory that gets absorbed by high demand. That trading values reflect what people want to do not what he thinks they should want and where!

Focusing on things as they were a decade or two ago, bemoaning the alleged "insiders" as THE SOLE SOURCE of any reliable information regarding RCI and the never ending shouts of "overbuilt! overbuilt!"(and may we add "The US aren't coming to the British"), that the explosion of the internet as both a source of information as well as easy rentals had no impact - it was ALL RCI's fault -aren't things we will ever change his view on. Accept it for what it's worth. Steve is a very knowledgeable and passionate consumer and timeshare advocate. But realize unless you too want ONLY a beach week no matter how shabby the units, what the weather or cost, European or other limited areas exclusively your experience isn't going to parallel his. And don't forget that eBay isn't a factor in resales (yeah, right).

As previously stated the change to open valuations at RCI, or "points lite", may have opened the true "golden age" of timesharing. Ignoring it or wallowing in what supposedly once was vs learning to fully utilize this great new opportunity is a real waste of time and effort. Read the opinions, factor them in and then do what's best for YOU and how YOU travel. I couldn't care less if there were never a deposit in December from some converted motel on the beach or if a cottage or penthouse is or isn't available in London or Paris - I'm not going there! Likely never will just like the vast majority of US travelers. Sorry that means we don't care how little value RCI gives to those places and times, but we don't. It's that simple. I worry about and try to maximize what I actually DO want to use and trade. That matters to me. RCI has had the most to offer and the new system makes it a better value overall IMO.