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Questions for Maui Ocean Club Owners - New Towers or Original

JIMinNC

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My thoughts.

First, 7 days on Hawaii is generally not long enough....unless you are flying from U.S. West coast. Since you are in/out of LAX, the 5-6 hr flight makes a week long vacation doable. If flying from anywhere else, plan to stay at least 10 days.

I agree. We've never traveled to Hawaii for less than 10-12 days. Most trips over the last 25 years have been two or sometimes three weeks. The EOY MOC week we are contemplating would be for the week on Maui. We would need to use points or something else for the second week. My wife loves the Big Island, so we've talked about picking up an inexpensive HGVC week in Orlando or Vegas to use the HGVC system for the Big Island. IF we do that, it becomes more difficult to add a second EOY Marriott Hawaii week to be able to take advantage of the 13 month window. Except for that complication, an EOY MOC coupled with a EOY Kauai would be a perfect solution.

Second, we struggled with this same question. If you buy a single MOC week, can you consistently get a high demand week during peak season at 12 months out. While it sounds like it can happen if you are a little flexible on dates and/or day of the week, there is more concern expressed on TUG around the inability to do so rather than ability to. This made me too nervous to purchase a single MOC float week. As a result, we are in process of picking up 1 MOC EY week and 1 MKO EY week. We will plan to book both consecutive at 13 months, increasing our odds of success...while not guaranteeing our odds. We may also lock-off these weeks if needed, allowing us to book beyond 13 months out...which further increases on chances. In the end, it's a crap shoot. While I'd love to have a fixed week, that just doesn't work for our schedules now. It is also less financially palatable.

Third, if you only plan to go to MVC MOC EOY for 2 weeks, I agree that perhaps purchasing two EOY MOC weeks may be better than one annual. This allows you in the even or odd years to attempt to reserve 13 months in advance of your travel dates. It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week, but being able to book at 13 months might be worth it. The other option..is purchase 2 EY weeks...and just rent the years you don't use. You can likely make over your maintenance fees at MOC.

Lastly, think about whether you want MOC old suites or new villas. Based on what I read on TUG, the old suites have a higher chance for a reservation at 13 months out than the newer villas. Some of this may depend on view, but something to consider.

It's certainly a conundrum for us. Having the MOC EOY week coupled with enough points to allow us to choose between Kauai, Big Island, and KoOlina on different trips is the ideal solution. But that means being a single week MOC owner and having to have enough points to book the second/third island, PLUS have enough points to use for other MVC destinations in the years we don't go to Hawaii. That's where the hybrid works really, really well, but at a significant cost. :ponder:
 
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hangloose

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Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance. MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower. You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash. We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!
 

csodjd

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It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week
I'm not really noticing much difference. Seems, at least for Napili/Lahaina oceanfront 2-bedroom, that the EOY is about half the cost of EY. Two EY weeks is a big purchase outlay of cash. No doubt the rental will cover MF, but that's about a $60k cash expense. If the goal is use every other, rent every other, that's about $30k spent to buy a rental. With $~2500 annual expense, it'll take about 12 years to earn that back in rental. It's a less than 10% rate of return.
 

csodjd

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Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance. MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower. You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash. We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!
I think this is a good strategy. The choice is really what to buy for that second week. One option is buy it at MOC also, then have the 13 mo window and two weeks in Maui, perhaps up to 4 if you lock off, etc. Another is what you have done, with the 2nd week at another MVC Hawaii location. Also a good option, but means you don't have the two weeks at MOC.
 

JIMinNC

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Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance. MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower. You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash. We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!

Yes, that's why I said above that an EOY MOC coupled with an EOY Kauai would be a great way to get access to the 13 month window - except that we also really like the Big Island, so not sure if we would be able to do Kauai EOY. Many trips would need to be MOC plus Big Island.
 
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GregT

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All,

I realize that I'm going slightly off topic here, but TUGgers who are interested in traveling to Maui Every-Other-Year may also want to consider the Starwood properties up the road. StarOptions can be purchased relatively inexpensively and there is a very good chance of making a reservation at WKORV 8 months out if you can be flexible on travel dates, especially now with Nanea opening.

I love MOC as much as anybody and just introduce the concept for a complete dialogue.

Best,

Greg
 

JoJo12

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FWIW - The following is on page 6 of the disclosure statement: Notice it says the 13 month reservation can only be for owner occupancy. They probably have the right to have changed it since.

Owners will have the ability to request a reservation for a seven (7) night stay for an accommodation for a check-in day on a first come, first served basis, with other Owners, beginning
twelve (12) months in advance of the requested check-in day. An Owner's request shall be timely if received no later than seventy-five (75) days prior to the first day of a Use Period. Owners who own more that one Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent, meaning two (2) or more Units during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one (1) or more Units for two (2) or more Use Periods in a row, for Owner occupancy only thirteen (13) months in advance of the first requested check-in day for the first Use Period reserved, however, no more than fifty percent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance in this manner. Any cancellation for a Use Period reserved in this manner must include all concurrent or consecutive Use Periods reserved with the Use Period canceled.
 

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Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance. MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower. You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash. We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!
We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window. However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order. Why? Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it. If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it). That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.
 

SueDonJ

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FWIW - The following is on page 6 of the disclosure statement: Notice it says the 13 month reservation can only be for owner occupancy. They probably have the right to have changed it since.

Owners will have the ability to request a reservation for a seven (7) night stay for an accommodation for a check-in day on a first come, first served basis, with other Owners, beginning
twelve (12) months in advance of the requested check-in day. An Owner's request shall be timely if received no later than seventy-five (75) days prior to the first day of a Use Period. Owners who own more that one Ownership Interest may reserve concurrent, meaning two (2) or more Units during the same Use Period, or consecutive Use Periods, meaning one (1) or more Units for two (2) or more Use Periods in a row, for Owner occupancy only thirteen (13) months in advance of the first requested check-in day for the first Use Period reserved, however, no more than fifty percent (50%) of the available non-Developer inventory for each Use Period can be reserved more than one (1) year in advance in this manner. Any cancellation for a Use Period reserved in this manner must include all concurrent or consecutive Use Periods reserved with the Use Period canceled.

In one way this is similar to the language that says the 13-mos Reservation Window can only be utilized if Owners are booking multi-Weeks at the same resort, in that the governing docs for all resorts do not contain the same restrictions. In practice MVW has allowed multi-Weeks Owners to use the 13-mos window when booking concurrent/consecutive intervals at different resorts, and, they have allowed Owners to deposit to II or add guest names to intervals booked using the 13-mos window.

MVW hasn't ever amended the language at the resorts where "for owner occupancy only" is a condition of the 13-mos window. (My Barony docs say it; my SurfWatch docs don't.) But they have amended the "at the same resort" condition in one way - a revised Reservation Procedures document that was issued for all resorts in 2010 redefined "Ownership Interest" to include Weeks at any MVC resort. Regardless, like you say, there's other language in the docs that gives MVW the right to enforce consistent rules across all resorts in order to simplify administration and management, which is what they've always done.

The last sentence of the provision you quoted has also not been enforced by MVW - cancellations of single reservations using the 13-mos Reservation Window haven't ever resulted in all concurrent/consecutive reservations being cancelled. In fact, the same 2010 revised Res Proc doc amended this to say that cancelling a single reservation booked using the 13-mos window could result in all reservations for that entire use year being cancelled, which is much more restrictive, but again MVW is not enforcing it. (When it was announced, though, the Owner Services reps suggested that any changes to reservations booked using the 13-mos window should not be made until their 12-mos windows open. Some TUGgers follow that advice, others haven't, but as far as we know nobody's ever been subject to the penalty either way.)
 
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csodjd

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We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window. However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order. Why? Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it. If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it). That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.
So, in other words, this strategy allows you to book the MOC 13 months and a week before you arrive?

Question: on those occasions where you were unable to book the MOC week 13 months out, what was the time of year you were trying to book for and how much flexibility did you have?
 

ljmiii

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From our "What it's worth department"...

Even calling at the opening bell I was unable to book my OF MOC Sequel week July 7th 2018 at 13 months + 2 weeks. But I was able to book July 28th 2018 at 13 months + 1 week.
 

csodjd

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From our "What it's worth department"...

Even calling at the opening bell I was unable to book my OF MOC Sequel week July 7th 2018 at 13 months + 2 weeks. But I was able to book July 28th 2018 at 13 months + 1 week.
Just curious... did you ask about July 8?
 

JoJo12

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Regardless, like you say, there's other language in the docs that gives MVW the right to enforce consistent rules across all resorts in order to simplify administration and management, which is what they've always done.

Not expecting a definitive answer, just a comment: What is the point of the 40 page Disclosure Statement, if in fact some of the relevant terms have been changed and a prospective buyer would have no way of knowing this? Unless they are on TUG of course!
 

ljmiii

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Just curious... did you ask about July 8?
I didn't ask about Sunday because we are going to Waiohai and Maui after a Saturday to Saturday stay at Hilton Hawaiian Village. And we had some flexibility as to when we could go.
 

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So, in other words, this strategy allows you to book the MOC 13 months and a week before you arrive?

Question: on those occasions where you were unable to book the MOC week 13 months out, what was the time of year you were trying to book for and how much flexibility did you have?
Yes, or in some cases 13 months and 2 weeks if we lock off the Ko Olina week and book both halves of the Ko Olina lock off before the Maui week. We usually go in January/February during the prime whale season. It gives us the flexibility to get Maui almost any time we want it, especially with the 13 months and 2 weeks approach. My own opinion is that February and the last half of January is even harder to reserve than summer because in summer not as many people string together multiple weeks for a longer stay of a three weeks or more.
 

JIMinNC

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Realize also...that both MVC Hawaii weeks don't have to be at MOC in order to book 13 months in advance. MOC tends to command a price premium vs the other MVC HI resorts. So, if you are okay island hopping via one week at MOC and one week on another MVC HI resort on another island...your entry point purchase price could be lower. You could buy the second week at Ko Olina, Kauai Beach Club, or Waiohai and save some cash. We went this route with one week at MOC and one at MKO, then we'll be able to still book 2 HI weeks at 13 months...with MOC being the first week every time to ensure we get into that 13 month inventory asap. Time will tell if this works or not but I am hopeful!

I think this is a good strategy. The choice is really what to buy for that second week. One option is buy it at MOC also, then have the 13 mo window and two weeks in Maui, perhaps up to 4 if you lock off, etc. Another is what you have done, with the 2nd week at another MVC Hawaii location. Also a good option, but means you don't have the two weeks at MOC.

We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window. However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order. Why? Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it. If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it). That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.

Yes, or in some cases 13 months and 2 weeks if we lock off the Ko Olina week and book both halves of the Ko Olina lock off before the Maui week. We usually go in January/February during the prime whale season. It gives us the flexibility to get Maui almost any time we want it, especially with the 13 months and 2 weeks approach. My own opinion is that February and the last half of January is even harder to reserve than summer because in summer not as many people string together multiple weeks for a longer stay of a three weeks or more.

Lots of good information and food for thought about the 13 month window and strategies to take advantage. Technically, since I already own a Silver Barony Beach Club (which includes Feb/Mar), I guess if I buy a MOC I would then qualify as a "multi-week owner", so I guess I could book my Silver Barony consecutively with a MOC week and deposit the Barony to II. But then I would be left with a February Barony week to trade which probably wouldn't get me much. Might be "sacrificing" the Barony week, effectively.

But what about the 12 month window? What if I only buy one Hawaii week? According to the docs, at least 50% of the inventory must be held back for the 12-month window. So at that point, presumably, all the multi-week owners would have already grabbed what they need at 13 months or before (when stringing together weeks). So, at 12 months, it would seem that 50% of the inventory would be still available at 9am on release day. Is it REALLY that hard to get a week at 12 months if you are online/call in right at 9am? Do they "sell out" in seconds?

So back to my bottom line question -- given the intense competition for January-March at MOC, is it foolish to just try to compete with a single week, or is it really necessary to own two weeks to book in the 13 month window to stand a realistic chance of consistently being able to get a week in that period?
 
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bazzap

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Lots of good information and food for thought about the 13 month window and strategies to take advantage. Technically, since I already own a Silver Barony Beach Club (which includes Feb/Mar), I guess if I buy a MOC I would then qualify as a "multi-week owner", so I guess I could book my Silver Barony consecutively with a MOC week and deposit the Barony to II. But then I would be left with a February Barony week to trade which probably wouldn't get me much. Might be "sacrificing" the Barony week, effectively.

But what about the 12 month window? What if I only buy one Hawaii week? According to the docs, at least 50% of the inventory must be held back for the 12-month window. So at that point, presumably, all the multi-week owners would have already grabbed what they need at 13 months or before (when stringing together weeks). So, at 12 months, it would seem that 50% of the inventory would be still available at 9am on release day. Is it REALLY that hard to get a week at 12 months if you are online/call in right at 9am? Do they "sell out" in seconds?

So back to my bottom line question -- given the intense competition for January-March at MOC, is it foolish to just try to compete with a single week, or is it really necessary to own two weeks to book in the 13 month window to stand a realistic chance of consistently being able to get a week in that period?
Remember too that not all multi week owners will have been able to grab what they need at the 13 month window, with the up to 50% inventory release, so at the 12 month window you will be competing with some multi week owners as well as single week owners for the at least 50% of inventory held back.
This may not be an issue, just something to be aware of and they may still sell out in seconds so it is always best if you are online/call in at 9am exactly.
 

JIMinNC

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Remember too that not all multi week owners will have been able to grab what they need at the 13 month window, with the up to 50% inventory release, so at the 12 month window you will be competing with some multi week owners as well as single week owners for the at least 50% of inventory held back.
This may not be an issue, just something to be aware of and they may still sell out in seconds so it is always best if you are online/call in at 9am exactly.

Yes, I realize some multi-week owners might still be looking to book then, but at the 12 month window everyone is equal. They don't have any advantage over a single week owner at that point - first come, first served.

I'm wondering why there's not much feedback from single-week owners. Maybe the demographics of TUG dictate that most TUGgers with an interest in Maui have become multi-week Hawaii owners due to the difficult MOC booking issues. If that is the case, that would not seem to bode well for someone like me considering the wisdom of becoming a single-week Maui owner...:ponder:
 
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JoJo12

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As I posted somewhere else, the Ka'anapali Hyatt sales rep at our presentation last month claimed that he was selling the Hyatt fixed weeks to Marriott owners who were frustrated not being able to get Maui reservations. I didn't believe him at the time.

Now, after following the TUG Marriott thread, I think he may have been telling the truth. For those Marriott owners who have floating weeks or smaller amounts of DC points and don't follow TUG or know about the resale market, I can see how they would just give up, sell their units and move on to Hyatt. Assuming of course they had the financial ability to do so! $ $ $. In the month or so I have been learning about TUG it seems like legacy resale fixed weeks could have the potential to hold more value than the floating weeks, especially once Hyatt is sold out.

Just my 2cents.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Is it possible to lock-off two EOY units and use 2 1 bedroom units to reserve one year and 2 studios the next year? (Trying to decide whether to purchase MOC.)
 
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hangloose

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We have been owners in the new towers at MOC since they opened and frequently have used the 13-month booking window. However, I recommend that you start with the non-MOC week and make MOC the second in order. Why? Because if it is first in your string you are competing with everyone else who wants that week at 13 months and you might not always get it. If it is second in order, you can reserve the non-MOC week that is easier to reserve 13 months and one week before your desired Maui week and then reserved your desired MOC at the same time (a week before many of the others who also want it). That strategy has never failed us but we have occasionally been unable to book the MOC week when it is only 13 months out.

I'm new to consecutive week booking at 13 months. Can you elaborate a little? When you say book non-MOC first, is that because only after that 13 month week is reserved, will it allow me to book the 13 month minus 1 week for MOC? Or can I ask to book the 13 month minus 1 week at MOC first...and add the 13 month non-MOC second?

The reason I ask is that it sounds like every minute counts for MOC..even if booking at exactly 9am. So, I'd love to reserve that week first for the 13 month minus a week...to give the best opportunity at inventory on the preferred check-in dates. It also saves me from booking non-MOC first for say a Saturday to Saturday checkin....and then find out I cannot get an adjoining Sat checking at MOC (which has more difficult occupancy)...but instead has only Friday/Sunday. Then I'd have to back and adjust my non-MOC week to match Fri/Sunday....right?

Always learning, but booking for 13 months is new for me...as I don't generally need to do that for my existing Grande Vista weeks....but certainly will in future for HI weeks.
 

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As I posted somewhere else, the Ka'anapali Hyatt sales rep at our presentation last month claimed that he was selling the Hyatt fixed weeks to Marriott owners who were frustrated not being able to get Maui reservations. I didn't believe him at the time.

Now, after following the TUG Marriott thread, I think he may have been telling the truth. For those Marriott owners who have floating weeks or smaller amounts of DC points and don't follow TUG or know about the resale market, I can see how they would just give up, sell their units and move on to Hyatt. Assuming of course they had the financial ability to do so! $ $ $. In the month or so I have been learning about TUG it seems like legacy resale fixed weeks could have the potential to hold more value than the floating weeks, especially once Hyatt is sold out.

Just my 2cents.
I met several new owners at the Hyatt who had bought at the Marriott too. One was a couple who owned a fixed week/unit in the Lahaina tower and bought a fixed week at the Hyatt after it was built so that they could stay two weeks on a row without having to lock off their 2 BR condo and deal with the frustration.

Several sales people came from the Marriott so a few owners bought from their Marriott sales person again but at the Hyatt instead.
 

taterhed

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Is it possible to lock-off two EOY units and use 2 1 bedroom units to reserve one year and 2 studios the next year? (Trying to decide whether to purchase MOC.)

Not exactly sure about your question, but no; lock-off reservations must be used in the year they are paid for. So, you can not 'bank' a week forward or 'borrow' a week from the next years usage. This is the same for annual or EOY units. Also, lock-off units can not be used to book 13 month reservations (from the same specific unit-ownership). Lock-off units from different ownerships (multiple week/resort owners) can be used to establish 13 month bookings. AFAIK.

So, no I think, is the answer to your question unless I misunderstood....
 

CalGalTraveler

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Not exactly sure about your question, but no; lock-off reservations must be used in the year they are paid for. So, you can not 'bank' a week forward or 'borrow' a week from the next years usage. This is the same for annual or EOY units. Also, lock-off units can not be used to book 13 month reservations (from the same specific unit-ownership). Lock-off units from different ownerships (multiple week/resort owners) can be used to establish 13 month bookings. AFAIK.

So, no I think, is the answer to your question unless I misunderstood....

Thanks @taterhed for clarifying, you understood correctly. It appears that the two EOY MOC units would qualify for 13 month reservations but the lock-offs cannot be banked (unfortunately).
 
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