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Westin St John [Master Thread] - Part 2 (June 2014 and forward)

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carpie99

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Getting SOs is some reassurance. However, not my case, how about if you wanted to rent your week. Would they let you use those SOs to reserve somewhere else and rent there. I would think not.

Also, how about if you are simply not interested in going somewhere else. Should they waive your MFs during the time they cannot provide the unit they are maintaining for you? Should they have insurance for this?

Lastly, the SOs that could be used in the network could create a headache for some people reserving.

I don't mean to sound insensitive to what's going on, but at the same time I don't want to be responsible for something I have no control over and that Vistana can do something about.

Not to sound insensitive ... but you became responsible the second you bought ownership in the property. Do you really think you would have better chance of getting your unit fit for use faster than they will be able to. I am just happy I didn't follow through with a secondary house purchase on the island that I had been considering rather than timeshare ownership.

I am looking forward to picking up some free timeshares at WSJ in the near future :)
 

LisaRex

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I think 6-9 months is way optimistic. Just the logistics of getting building material shipped to the Caribbean is daunting enough, but further complicated due to heavy damage inflicted to the entire Caribbean, but especially to the US mainland, which will surely take priority. Had the damage been limited to the USVI, I'd have been more optimistic, but there's no way that repairing St. John, which is 75% national park with very few full-time residents, is going to take priority over repairing Miami or Tampa...or St. Thomas. No way, no how. Even if the federal government (or Vistana/MVC) throws a bunch of money their way, what good is cash if you lack lumber and skilled tradesman?

And, remember, even though USVI is technically part of the US, they actually operate as a separate entity. They have their own government, own utilities, own currency, etc., and they will suffer as a result. For example, it would be so much easier for them if they were served by Verizon or Duke Energy, massive national US companies. Last week, as soon as models predicted that Florida was going to get hit, Duke started sending workers and trucks from all over the country to the southeast to assist. The Caribbean islands do not enjoy the benefits of unification and mutual cooperation. Not only are they physically removed from each other via a large body of water, but most don't share a common government. IOW, it's not like Aruba (Dutch) is going to send electric workers over to assist St. Bart (UK) or St. John (US).

Even if materials became available, and the ports of Miami, Savannah and Charleston are quickly repaired, you still have the lack of a deep-water port on St. John large enough to accommodate a container ship. That means that heavy equipment and materials will have to first be shipped to the port in St. Thomas (which may have to be repaired first), then moved to smaller boats (which may have been damaged or sunk in the storm) to be transported to St. John. That takes dollars, manpower, and time...all of which will be diverted to rebuilding St. Thomas first.

And, of course, we have the unmentionable fact that September is the beginning of hurricane season.

No, a leisure resort will be (and should be!) triaged far below other more emergent needs, such as rebuilding roads, hospitals, gas stations, grocery stores, government buildings, schools, and residents' homes. My prediction is that it'll take 12 to 18 months for WSJ to be up and running, and that is assuming no further setbacks, such as crappy weather or civil unrest.
 

vistana101

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I've been looking at Facebook posts and it seems a lot of villas were really heavily damaged inside even if it did not appear so on the outside. Some reports of broken glass doors, windows, lots of flooding etc. Here is just one photo showing a bit of interior destruction:
upload_2017-9-12_10-45-10.png


And a scary video: https://www.facebook.com/allen.gaston.39/posts/1399120883541223?pnref=story

It will certainly will take quite a bit of time to repair all of this...so sad to see such destruction throughout the beautiful island.
 
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okwiater

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My prediction is that it'll take 12 to 18 months for WSJ to be up and running, and that is assuming no further setbacks, such as crappy weather or civil unrest.

You may very well be right. We'll have to wait and see what official information is forthcoming from the resort. It looks like Vistana is already taking precautions by restricting new reservations to April or later, though. I noticed today that the Villa Finder for WSJ has been locked down with the "requested check-in day may not be available for check-in" message for all dates through March of 2018.
 

SandyPGravel

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You may very well be right. We'll have to wait and see what official information is forthcoming from the resort. It looks like Vistana is already taking precautions by restricting new reservations to April or later, though. I noticed today that the Villa Finder for WSJ has been locked down with the "requested check-in day may not be available for check-in" message for all dates through March of 2018.

I hope that some kind of official communication regarding the resort comes out soon. All this speculating is nerve racking. I don't expect definitive answers, just something from the resort so we can make adjustments if needed. My DH would be more than willing to lend a hand, he's been in construction (commercial HVAC for 20+ years). Yesterday he was wondering out loud if the airlines would wave over-weight bag fees so he could bring down tools. I take direction well, with no construction background. o_O
 

bice01

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I'm not going to speculate on timing, but I do have a few comments.

I think with the federal disaster declaration, FEMA has extraordinary powers to facilitate rebuilding. For STJ, if FEMA chooses, it can bring in an Army Corps of Engineering temporary dock for deep water Coral Bay to accommodate roll-on/roll-off cargo ships for STJ. Separately, the National Park Service has their own protocols and national teams for emergency cleanup and restoration for their 70% of STJ. My point is that normal logistics for STJ may not apply now.

I do think that each individual private property and business will recover based on their individual insurance coverage, or under-insurance, as the case may be.

For Virgin Grand, it's my understanding that we have good coverage and are nearly funded on the deductible (assuming no FEMA $ assistance). Also, we paid handsomely for those new roofs, which appear nicely intact.
 

DavidnRobin

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I did the Owners Update at WKORV yesterday- in the past they were willing to take our WSJ deeds for exchange if we bought something new (with additional new $) like Nanea, etc. Not this time - only WKV or WPORV.
Telling...
 
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lizap

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I think 6-9 months is way optimistic. Just the logistics of getting building material shipped to the Caribbean is daunting enough, but further complicated due to heavy damage inflicted to the entire Caribbean, but especially to the US mainland, which will surely take priority. Had the damage been limited to the USVI, I'd have been more optimistic, but there's no way that repairing St. John, which is 75% national park with very few full-time residents, is going to take priority over repairing Miami or Tampa...or St. Thomas. No way, no how. Even if the federal government (or Vistana/MVC) throws a bunch of money their way, what good is cash if you lack lumber and skilled tradesman?

And, remember, even though USVI is technically part of the US, they actually operate as a separate entity. They have their own government, own utilities, own currency, etc., and they will suffer as a result. For example, it would be so much easier for them if they were served by Verizon or Duke Energy, massive national US companies. Last week, as soon as models predicted that Florida was going to get hit, Duke started sending workers and trucks from all over the country to the southeast to assist. The Caribbean islands do not enjoy the benefits of unification and mutual cooperation. Not only are they physically removed from each other via a large body of water, but most don't share a common government. IOW, it's not like Aruba (Dutch) is going to send electric workers over to assist St. Bart (UK) or St. John (US).

Even if materials became available, and the ports of Miami, Savannah and Charleston are quickly repaired, you still have the lack of a deep-water port on St. John large enough to accommodate a container ship. That means that heavy equipment and materials will have to first be shipped to the port in St. Thomas (which may have to be repaired first), then moved to smaller boats (which may have been damaged or sunk in the storm) to be transported to St. John. That takes dollars, manpower, and time...all of which will be diverted to rebuilding St. Thomas first.

And, of course, we have the unmentionable fact that September is the beginning of hurricane season.

No, a leisure resort will be (and should be!) triaged far below other more emergent needs, such as rebuilding roads, hospitals, gas stations, grocery stores, government buildings, schools, and residents' homes. My prediction is that it'll take 12 to 18 months for WSJ to be up and running, and that is assuming no further setbacks, such as crappy weather or civil unrest.

Lisa, unfortunately, I think your predictions are about right.
 

ekinggill

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The most complete video of the WSJ damage I have seen yet.
 

okwiater

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I did the Owners Update at WKORV yesterday- in the past they were willing to take our WSJ deeds for exchange if we bought something new (with additional new $) like Nanea, etc. Not this time - only WKV or WPORV.
Telling...

The fact that Vistana wouldn't buy back your WSJ deed is unsurprising but I disagree that it is telling. It's a basic tenet of business -- especially for a sales organization like Vistana -- that you don't accumulate inventory for which there is no demand, since doing so just ties up capital. It's obvious that nobody is going to want to buy WSJ until the resort and the island have been restored to a reasonable condition. So refusing to buy back your deed as part of an exchange isn't so much telling as it is exactly what I would expect Vistana to do in this situation.
 

Helios

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Not to sound insensitive ... but you became responsible the second you bought ownership in the property. Do you really think you would have better chance of getting your unit fit for use faster than they will be able to. I am just happy I didn't follow through with a secondary house purchase on the island that I had been considering rather than timeshare ownership.

I am looking forward to picking up some free timeshares at WSJ in the near future :)
Sure on being responsible, as an owner...perhaps I could not move faster, but perhaps I could...at least the speed and cost would be on my own terms which I can control...I cannot control Vistana's speed or cost...

So, you want free WSJ unit(s)...Sounds like you want to get someone else to pay for the SAs and the MFs while the restorations takes place, then you get for it/them free because owners freak out and sell to avoid another disaster...Some could interpret as insensitive and opportunistic...:ponder:
 
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DavidnRobin

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The fact that Vistana wouldn't buy back your WSJ deed is unsurprising but I disagree that it is telling. It's a basic tenet of business -- especially for a sales organization like Vistana -- that you don't accumulate inventory for which there is no demand, since doing so just ties up capital. It's obvious that nobody is going to want to buy WSJ until the resort and the island have been restored to a reasonable condition. So refusing to buy back your deed as part of an exchange isn't so much telling as it is exactly what I would expect Vistana to do in this situation.

They have always offered to take our WSJ in exchange (years now...) - even last June. The only one that has been off the table is our OFD which has a VSE paper value of $125K.

What is telling is that our WSJ-VGV are now valueless - unfortunately.
This could be easily proved - and might be...

btw - I never said 'refused' as I wasn't buying, but happened to be at WKORV Owners Update because I want to see Nanea villas. it wasn't not on offer sheet like it has always been.
I wasn't surprised - just a factoid... 2 weeks ago it would have been.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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LisaRex

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My DH would be more than willing to lend a hand, he's been in construction (commercial HVAC for 20+ years). Yesterday he was wondering out loud if the airlines would wave over-weight bag fees so he could bring down tools. I take direction well, with no construction background. o_O

If USVI is anything like other municipalities in the US, it's not as easy as a barn raising, at least for big projects. Government-funded projects (e.g. FEMA) usually require competitive bidding and registered bidders. The proposals usually must build in certain stipulations (e.g. you must use Teamster drivers and they will be paid $x per hour). This keeps the playing field even among bidders, and helps avoid exploitation of cheap labor (e.g. illegal immigrants). It does make me wonder whether unions exist on the islands, and whether FEMA has the right to waive local mandates in emergency situations like this.
 

Henry M.

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I did the Owners Update at WKORV yesterday- in the past they were willing to take our WSJ deeds for exchange if we bought something new (with additional new $) like Nanea, etc. Not this time - only WKV or WPORV.
Telling...

I took an owner's update at Nanea on Sep.t 1 and they did offer to take in my WSJ EOY week (+ min $35K new money) in exchange for Nanea or WKORV weeks. I guess they changed their tune after Irma.
 

alexadeparis

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Thanks for the link. These photos are what I expected - they make me want to cry..
Me too, the longer I look at the pictures, especially on Facebook, the more depressed I get.
 

lizap

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Posted earlier this week by Jenn on -News of St. John-Facebook (so very sad):

I’m scared. Those are words I never thought I would write when referring to St. John. But I’m scared. We’re only four days into this mess, and we’re hearing some awful things. For starters, Joe’s Rum Hut was broken into the day after Irma hit. The ATM was stolen. They attempted to get cash out of the register, but it was empty as Joe’s closed for season earlier this month. The ATM next to Cruz Bay Landing was stolen. The ATM at the ferry dock was stolen. Scoops has been broken into. St. John Insurance has been broken into. They hold almost all of the insurance policies on this island. Makes you wonder the intentions of that burglary, doesn't it? Dolphin Market in Coral Bay was looted the very first night. The very first night. We heard this morning that the Customs building in Cruz Bay was broken into and that guns were stolen. We heard that there was at least three robberies at gunpoint on Gifft Hill. This is not St. John anymore. I’m not sure what it is. What I do know is that I am scared. My friends are scared. And we don’t know what to do.

Last night I was able to go home. What I failed to mention was that we had to install a bar on the inside of our door so no one could break in. This is our new reality. Last night, for the first time since moving here, I was afraid to walk down the streets of Cruz Bay. And it was only 6:30 p.m. People are getting desperate, and desperate times call for desperate measures from some unfortunately. We are only on day four. What’s going to happen next?

I have seen absolutely no aid today except a few boxes of MREs walking down the street. I haven’t seen one helicopter land today. We hear help is on the way. Let’s hope so. We need the military. We need men and women guarding our streets with guns. Our police force does nothing. They sit in their cars and yell at people over the loudspeaker. I kid you not. They’re not even helping with traffic in areas where it’s needed. You know who is? Our homeless people. Our homeless people are directing traffic, and our police are not. Let that sink in for a minute. Several police officers can be seen constantly at Ronnie’s Pizza - our new cell phone spot - and they’re scrolling through Facebook rather than patrolling our streets. Im shocked they actually got out of their cars for that. I took pictures and I cannot wait until I have internet so I can share them with the world.

We need help. We need the United States government to step up. We need military. We need security. We all survived this monster storm. But will we survive the aftermath? No one knows. And that’s not me being dramatic at all. That, unfortunately, is the new reality of St. John. This is no longer paradise. This is no longer my happy place.

Please share this folks. Share away. Please get us help.

Jenn
 

okwiater

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Posted earlier this week by Jenn on -News of St. John-Facebook (so very sad):

I’m scared. Those are words I never thought I would write when referring to St. John. But I’m scared. We’re only four days into this mess, and we’re hearing some awful things.

Yes, but there have been several more recent posts describing a drastically improved situation as additional police and other resources have arrived from St. Croix.
 

SandyPGravel

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Wow, a great article, IMO. Sad to hear the governor discounting what people in the midst of the situation on St John are saying. I'm not sure what his reasoning could be? Seriously the worse the situation is the more help you are going to receive. By discounting local accounts, he is providing a disservice to those in greatest need. Also, glad to read other first hand accounts of what was happening to back up what Jenn Manes had stated on her blog. She was taking a ton of criticism on FB for describing what she was feeling and witnessing.
 

lizap

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Yes, but there have been several more recent posts describing a drastically improved situation as additional police and other resources have arrived from St. Croix.

Thankfully, things have improved, but is is still very unfortunate that these things happened. My heart breaks for her reading this account. We are planning to donate to relief efforts. Any recommendations?
 
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carpie99

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Sure on being responsible, as an owner...perhaps I could not move faster, but perhaps I could...at least the speed and cost would be on my own terms which I can control...I cannot control Vistana's speed or cost...

So, you want free WSJ unit(s)...Sounds like you want to get someone else to pay for the SAs and the MFs while the restorations takes place, then you get for it/them free because owners freak out and sell to avoid another disaster...Some could interpret as insensitive and opportunistic...:ponder:

The repairs will be funded by insurance ... I can only say that for the three units I own there I will pay the required SAs and MFs until I can continue visits to the property. That is the inherent risk of property ownership. They only owe you what you agreed to when you purchased, nothing more or less. I haven't reviewed my documents yet to see what guarantees of use I have. What I can tell you is that I have a nine day reservation in 29 days that use 168,000 star options ($4000+ in MFs) and have been told that my reservation is still valid. So I have plenty of skin in the game and still feel fortunate that I have the backing of Vistana rather than having to somehow deal with insurance and repairs by myself.
 

lizap

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The repairs will be funded by insurance ... I can only say that for the three units I own there I will pay the required SAs and MFs until I can continue visits to the property. That is the inherent risk of property ownership. They only owe you what you agreed to when you purchased, nothing more or less. I haven't reviewed my documents yet to see what guarantees of use I have. What I can tell you is that I have a nine day reservation in 29 days that use 168,000 star options ($4000+ in MFs) and have been told that my reservation is still valid. So I have plenty of skin in the game and still feel fortunate that I have the backing of Vistana rather than having to somehow deal with insurance and repairs by myself.

You may want to check with Vistana about your reservation. I cancelled our reservation yesterday for the middle of October. As of mid day yesterday, they are allowing penalty-free cancellations.
 
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