Keep Hawaii Hawii

[tompalm]

I know I am sure New York City does the same since property taxes there are low, and by the way the public schools except for the elite and specialty schools are poor. The reason I brought this up was the the issue of the Hawaii's local politicians raising revenue by targeting tourists with taxes and I have a problem with using the pot that the Get and TAT funds go into for public schools. Paying for services that tourists use and need such as Emergency Services, Police, Roads, Street Lighting, Public Transportation, Airports, Parks, Beaches, Refuse Removal etc. should be the purpose of those revenue sources.[/QUOTE

Send the mayor a letter. He is at the bottom of my list of politicians that I don’t like. He is responsible for most of how tax is collected and spent. My friend led the fight for Home Sharing on Oahu and wanted me to attend a hearing with him and make a statement to stop the city from shutting down Air BnB. It turned out that we went to hearings every month that the city council listened too and after a year, the council reported to the mayor that the people wanted to keep home sharing or Air BnB. He shut it down anyway and did what he wanted to do. He will do whatever gets him the most votes. I think he plans to run for governor and will have all the union folks voting for him. He will probably get elected and it will be business as usual. Oh, only send that letter to the mayor if it makes you feel better. He doesn’t care what you think or what I think. Don’t expect things to change until it has an impact on the economy.

 

[Tamaradarann]

We have NOT gotten involved with the politics in Hawaii as of yet since we are not citizens. I think we will start with some of the legislators and get a feel for where they are at on some of the issues that we feel strong about. For instance raising the property tax to fund education would be unpopular to most voters, but if you accompany that with not taxing supermarket food it may make sense and for the middle and lower income people it could be a wash. However, the real estate industry would hate it. They love to being able to sell million dollar homes with a relative pittance for property taxes. That is probably a very strong lobby and the main reason why they keep it low so that real estate can continue to be off the hook high!!

 

[LisaRex]

While I understand the desire to preserve Hawaiian culture, I also think that initiatives like "Keep Hawaii Hawaii" are xenophobic. My hometown, Cincinnati, used to have a huge white German Catholic population in a part of town called Over The Rhine. In recent decades, it's turned largely African American. If I started an initiative to "Keep OTR OTR" with the argument that we need to preserve the Germanic white culture, people would argue that: a) I'm glorifying the past; b) Nothing ever stays the same; and b) I'm being racist.

Last time I was on Oahu, a tour operator told me a bit about state-funded privileges for people who could prove that they were more than 50% Hawaiian ancestry, and the privileges were significant: Free private education, $1 free leaseholds on land for 99 years, and subsidized loans for building homes. He said that it was a source of great pride to have a higher "quantum," which was his word for how much Hawaiian blood you have. I have to admit that I found "quantum" a pretty racist policy. Why should someone whose great-great-great grandfather happened to emigrate earlier than another Hawaiian enjoy all these subsidies? Makes no sense.

Love it or hate it, Hawaii is tourist dependent now. The pineapple and sugar plantations are a thing of the past. And if they really want tourists to stay away, then they really should come up with a Plan B for surviving. As Bruce Springsteen sang, "They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks. Foreman says these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back." Either adapt or die.

 

[Tamaradarann]

While I understand the desire to preserve Hawaiian culture, I also think that initiatives like "Keep Hawaii Hawaii" are xenophobic. My hometown, Cincinnati, used to have a huge white German Catholic population in a part of town called Over The Rhine. In recent decades, it's turned largely African American. If I started an initiative to "Keep OTR OTR" with the argument that we need to preserve the Germanic white culture, people would argue that: a) I'm glorifying the past; b) Nothing ever stays the same; and b) I'm being racist.

Last time I was on Oahu, a tour operator told me a bit about state-funded privileges for people who could prove that they were more than 50% Hawaiian ancestry, and the privileges were significant: Free private education, $1 free leaseholds on land for 99 years, and subsidized loans for building homes. He said that it was a source of great pride to have a higher "quantum," which was his word for how much Hawaiian blood you have. I have to admit that I found "quantum" a pretty racist policy. Why should someone whose great-great-great grandfather happened to emigrate earlier than another Hawaiian enjoy all these subsidies? Makes no sense.

Love it or hate it, Hawaii is tourist dependent now. The pineapple and sugar plantations are a thing of the past. And if they really want tourists to stay away, then they really should come up with a Plan B for surviving. As Bruce Springsteen sang, "They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks. Foreman says these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back." Either adapt or die.

I totally agree that Hawaii needs to come up with new industry for sources of employment and revenue. The Mostly Native Hawaiian definition is based on being native to Hawaii before European immigration into the islands, not when your ancestors immigrated to Hawaii. Furthermore, rather than your Germantown example I would use the Native American(Native Indian) in the Continental United States. The Native Americans have been given loads of free land(Reservations). There are many grants and privileges given to Native Americans. Of course, Continental United States is so large compared to Hawaii that the method of reparation has to be somewhat different so it is different.

 

[SmithOp]

I totally agree that Hawaii needs to come up with new industry for sources of employment and revenue. The Mostly Native Hawaiian definition is based on being native to Hawaii before European immigration into the islands, not when your ancestors immigrated to Hawaii. Furthermore, rather than your Germantown example I would use the Native American(Native Indian) in the Continental United States. The Native Americans have been given loads of free land(Reservations). There are many grants and privileges given to Native Americans. Of course, Continental United States is so large compared to Hawaii that the method of reparation has to be somewhat different so it is different.

Makes you wonder why Native Hawaiians haven’t been given the same status as other Native Americans, then they could build a few casinos...


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[bogey21]

Many moons ago I had to pay an Exit Fee when I left Venezuela. I think it was something like $25...

George

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Makes you wonder why Native Hawaiians haven’t been given the same status as other Native Americans, then they could build a few casinos...


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The last thing Hawaii needs is a bunch of casinos... we can keep those on the 9th Island....

I think the difference is that the native Americans were forcibly relocated to the reservations.. and with the Hawaiians we just co-located with them..

Maybe I am too skeptical, but i don't making visitors sign a pledge to respect and keep Hawaii as Hawaiian will make much of change... As well the environmentalist in me wondering what they are going to do with all those signed forms.. seems wasteful..

 

[geist1223]

I totally agree that Hawaii needs to come up with new industry for sources of employment and revenue. The Mostly Native Hawaiian definition is based on being native to Hawaii before European immigration into the islands, not when your ancestors immigrated to Hawaii. Furthermore, rather than your Germantown example I would use the Native American(Native Indian) in the Continental United States. The Native Americans have been given loads of free land(Reservations). There are many grants and privileges given to Native Americans. Of course, Continental United States is so large compared to Hawaii that the method of reparation has to be somewhat different so it is different.

Because we can not get political I will not talk in detail about how horrible the Native Indians of the USA have been treated and how horrible life is on most Reservations.

 

[tompalm]

I just realize I posted above, but it got hidden. I think I accidentally deleted the bracket around Quote. Anyway, don’t spend to much time with politics in Hawaii. It is not worth the trouble. If you want to complain......

Send the mayor a letter. He is at the bottom of my list of politicians that I don’t like. He is responsible for most of how tax is collected and spent. My friend led the fight for Home Sharing on Oahu and wanted me to attend a hearing with him and make a statement to stop the city from shutting down Air BnB. It turned out that we went to hearings every month that the city council listened too and after a year, the council reported to the mayor that the people want to keep home sharing or Air BnB. He shut it down anyway and did what he wanted to do. He will do whatever gets him the most votes. I think he plans to run for governor and will have all the union folks voting for him. He will probably get elected and it will be business as usual. Oh, only send that letter to the mayor if it makes you feel better. He doesn’t care what you think or what I think. Don’t expect things to change until it has an impact on the economy.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Because we can not get political I will not talk in detail about how horrible the Native Indians of the USA have been treated and how horrible life is on most Reservations.

I agree with your thoughts about how horribly Native Americans have been treated. My comments on the benefits that Native Hawaiians have been given is to assert that it was a form of reparation as are the benefits that Native Americans have been given. In both cases foreigners came to these lands and disturbed the lives of the Natives and and took control of their land and their country.

 

[bizaro86]

What would happen if you refused to sign? I don't think US citizens can be denied entry to another US state. Maybe you get a state mandated lecture when you get off the plane?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Makes you wonder why Native Hawaiians haven’t been given the same status as other Native Americans, then they could build a few casinos...


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The Supreme Court ruled against that claim. Rice vs Cayetano is the settled SCOTUS ruling.

 

[easyrider]

What would happen if you refused to sign? I don't think US citizens can be denied entry to another US state. Maybe you get a state mandated lecture when you get off the plane?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law

If you don't sign maybe you get the stink eye.

Bill

 

[Tamaradarann]

While most of my posts in this tread have supported the benefits that Native Hawaiian have due to the negative impact on Hawaii Culture and Life that Europeans and Americans had on the islands over the last couple of centuries, I just clicked on and read the Hawaii News Now blurb with which Easyrider started off this tread. The last line which says the panel is considering a measure urging the State Legislature to begin tourism impact fees. Well since tourism is one of the two main sources of income into the economy perhaps they will be giving tourists some money when they get off the plane or ship since tourism has such a positive impact on the Hawaii Economy!

HONOLULU, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - A bill that would require all visitors to sign a pledge to “Keep Hawaii Hawaii” is up for discussion at Honolulu Hale on Tuesday.

A City Council committee will take a look at Bill 51, which would work with airlines and cruise ships to make visitors more aware of Hawaii’s culture, people and natural resources.

“We’re getting to a point that if we don’t as a city get involved in managing our tourism better, then the residents are going to start turning against our no. 1 economy," said City Councilwoman Kymberly Pine, who introduced the measure. "That could hurt us in the long run, so we have to get a grasp on this now.”

Similar initiatives have been started on Hawaii Island and Kauai. But this would be the first by a government agency.

The panel will also consider a measure urging the state Legislature to begin tourism impact fees. Those fees would be added to the cost of airline and cruise ship tickets purchased by non-Hawaii residents.

 

[pedro47]

I do not liked that last sentence in the above above post. Why are fees added to the cost of airline and cruise ship tickets purchase by non Hawaii residents.??? That is not fair. IMO.

That is Taxation only to Tourist. Why not Tax everyone flying and cruising into
Hawaii. IMHO.

Will they tax the U.S. military and government workers ?

 

[easyrider]

I do not liked that last sentence in the above above post. Why are fees added to the cost of airline and cruise ship tickets purchase by non Hawaii residents.??? That is not fair. IMO.

That is Taxation only to Tourist. Why not Tax everyone flying and cruising into
Hawaii. IMHO.

Will they tax the U.S. military and government workers ?

They already have a Kama'aina rate. Kama'aina rates are for Hawaiian residents. I think what they are after is a Malihini rate. So they keep the Kama"aina rates which are lower rates for Hawaiian residents and add a higher Malihini rate for non-residents.

Even though the Kama'aina rate is a lower rate , for the most part it didn't raise the Milihini rate, it was just a lower rate. Also, this isn't really a tax but more like a fee. A fee can be added subjectively to anything. A tax has to be voted in is how I think this works.

I'm actually for it. The BILL could raise enough money to get the homeless off the streets and the mentally ill off the streets before Hawaii becomes another stink hole like many places in the USA.

Bill

 

[Tamaradarann]

I do not liked that last sentence in the above above post. Why are fees added to the cost of airline and cruise ship tickets purchase by non Hawaii residents.??? That is not fair. IMO.

That is Taxation only to Tourist. Why not Tax everyone flying and cruising into
Hawaii. IMHO.

Will they tax the U.S. military and government workers ?

For the record, that last sentence was NOT my post it was a quote from a Hawaii News Now article that was attached to easyrider's post that started this tread.

I agree with your thoughts about taxing everyone. I feel strongly that imposing taxes that specifically target tourists as the article suggests in not good public relations in welcoming tourists as well as discriminatory. As I suggested in a previous post above Hawaii should stop taxing supermarket type food with the GET, Hawaii's version of a sales tax. To raise additional income they should raise the Get % on everything else which would lower the taxes on lower income people who buy mostly supermarket food and raise the taxes on tourists and higher income people who buy more luxury goods and eat more meals in a restaurant. Since the GET does NOT say tourist, it would not be as objectionable to tourists as the tax suggested in the Hawaii News Now article, and furthermore, Hawaii Get as is is lower than most states so that it wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[pedro47]

I am very sorry Tamaradarann, I should had said this a direct quote from the Hawaii New Now and I disliked the last sentence in their statement.

 

[turkel]

Unfortunately money doesn’t help homelessness. Seattle spends 100k per homeless in their city and no improvement has been seen. San Francisco spends crazy money and again only attracts more homeless.

I don’t know what the answer is but throwing money at the problem doesn’t work. Maybe rehab and Mental health services, community policing and prosecuting all crimes would be a start.

 

[pedro47]

Turkel, I was surprise by the homeless population in downtown Seattle. Seattle is a very nice city, it is a very high cost of living area, with some excellent jobs and universities in the city.
Downtown parking was very costly. IMO.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Unfortunately money doesn’t help homelessness. Seattle spends 100k per homeless in their city and no improvement has been seen. San Francisco spends crazy money and again only attracts more homeless.

I don’t know what the answer is but throwing money at the problem doesn’t work. Maybe rehab and Mental health services, community policing and prosecuting all crimes would be a start.

We sat next to the director of health services for the homeless in Honolulu on the way to Honolulu on the plane a few years ago, mental health services as well as physical health services are provided to the homeless. The prisons in Hawaii are overloaded so they need to ship some of their prisoners to other states. I don't think they want to fill up their prisons with homeless people who's crime is sleeping on the street.

While other cities have homeless population, Honolulu has some special aspects that lead to and encourage homelessness. The cost of living is very high which makes getting an apartment prohibitive on small incomes. The weather is so mild all year long that even in the winter the lows outside are in the 60's. While the homeless are in other areas the homeless in Waikiki are living in areas which most people in the world would and do pay huge amounts of money to travel and stay in for vacations of a lifetime. Furthermore, being in the tourist area of Waikiki is a great opportunity for panhandling.

We know and have known a number of homeless people in Honolulu over the years. Some have gotten on their feet and have jobs now and are no longer homeless. Others are still in the same situation. Honolulu has implemented many different initiatives, including building shelters and hopefully some of the initiatives will improve the situation. Some homeless reject the shelters. We have heard that some issues in shelters make them undesirably for homeless to make them their home so they remain homeless.

Safety, a home must be a safe haven.

Alcohol is prohibited. Alcohol is legal, but not in a homeless shelter.

Shelters make the homeless leave early each day; 7:00 AM. Why? Do they expect them to get out and look for jobs. Well there are not a lot of job interviews at 7:00 AM in the morning! The important thing is that the homeless are off the street. It is important that they try to improve their situation not some false time to get out and try.

Particularly in Honolulu where living outside is soooo nice, making the shelters as accommodating as possible is essential.

 

[turkel]

I wasn’t implying homelessness is a crime in and of itself. In SFO the homeless burglarize cars to the extent that victim shaming is the norm.

I had a gal tell me it was her own fault her window was mashed because she left an empty grocery bag in her car. Well personally I prefer to live among people who don’t attempt to steal from each other.

Community policing and prosecuting crimes when committed is far more important to a community than allowing the homeless free range to shoot up and poop where they please.

Alcohol should be prohibited. To allow it would be utter insanity. No one should give $ to a panhandler. All it teaches them to do is beg how does that improve their lives?

I have a relative that is an addict his parents have spent more money trying to help him than they have sending their other child to private college. He is still an addict and is in jail he has been homeless. His dad is done, not one penny more. Will this help him? I doubt it, but throwing money at the problem hasn’t worked. Enabling is not the answer.

The weathers great people hand me money why work when I can ......

 

[klpca]

True story - the partner (CPA firm) who hired me for my first job at some point was diagnosed as bi-polar. It worsened as he got older and after the firm merged with another he left (pushed out), sold Herbal Life for awhile, and eventually stopped taking his meds and became homeless. It was one of the saddest things that I have ever seen. When I worked with him he was completely fine. I'm not sure if he was just taking his meds or if his disease hadn't manifested at that point, but when you see a former co-worker who had the world on a string, shuffling around downtown looking like, well, a homeless person it is just heartbreaking. Another former partner who was very difficult to work with, would actually find this guy on the street, get him cleaned up and bring him back to his office and have him work part time. It never lasted long but I always admired him truly reaching out and trying to help this guy get back on his feet.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I wasn’t implying homelessness is a crime in and of itself. In SFO the homeless burglarize cars to the extent that victim shaming is the norm.

I had a gal tell me it was her own fault her window was mashed because she left an empty grocery bag in her car. Well personally I prefer to live among people who don’t attempt to steal from each other.

Community policing and prosecuting crimes when committed is far more important to a community than allowing the homeless free range to shoot up and poop where they please.

Alcohol should be prohibited. To allow it would be utter insanity. No one should give $ to a panhandler. All it teaches them to do is beg how does that improve their lives?

I have a relative that is an addict his parents have spent more money trying to help him than they have sending their other child to private college. He is still an addict and is in jail he has been homeless. His dad is done, not one penny more. Will this help him? I doubt it, but throwing money at the problem hasn’t worked. Enabling is not the answer.

The weathers great people hand me money why work when I can ......

I read your post and agree with most of it. I need to comment one issue. I did not make the comment about having alcohol in the homeless shelters with the mind that the panhandlers would use money they received in panhandling to buy alcohol; although granted that is possible. However, many of the homeless in Hawaii are not penniless. They have small pensions or social security. Having a pension or social security in Hawaii may not enough to afford an apartment. If homeless people have some money and want to use it to buy alcohol instead of cigarettes or more food/ clothing and bring it back to the homeless shelter to live as a "normal" human being they can't. Therefore, they stay homeless. That is not really helping the homeless problem.

 

[Tamaradarann]

True story - the partner (CPA firm) who hired me for my first job at some point was diagnosed as bi-polar. It worsened as he got older and after the firm merged with another he left (pushed out), sold Herbal Life for awhile, and eventually stopped taking his meds and became homeless. It was one of the saddest things that I have ever seen. When I worked with him he was completely fine. I'm not sure if he was just taking his meds or if his disease hadn't manifested at that point, but when you see a former co-worker who had the world on a string, shuffling around downtown looking like, well, a homeless person it is just heartbreaking. Another former partner who was very difficult to work with, would actually find this guy on the street, get him cleaned up and bring him back to his office and have him work part time. It never lasted long but I always admired him truly reaching out and trying to help this guy get back on his feet.

I am not an expert on the homeless problem but I have to agree with you that mental health issues are one of the problems. My points about allowing alcohol in the homeless shelters and not making the homeless leave at 7:00 AM each day is that is what I heard as concerns over moving into shelters from homeless people. Since we are not homeless what we think doesn't matter. We can't help the homeless find homes or move into shelters unless we listen to THEIR problems and THEIR concerns about moving to a homeless shelter instead of being homeless. Another concern that I heard was safety in the shelters. That is another issue that must be addressed. I heard this from a few homeless people but also from an advocate for gay youth who brought up the issue of safety in a homeless shelters. Society can't just build the shelters and expect the people to come. Most homeless are not looking just for a place to sleep; they have that. They are looking for a safe comfortable home.