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Trying to rescind. Is Saturday a business day?? Please advise.

ravenna

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@waxkylucy,

Not sure why you took offense at my statement about the Finn group. My suspicion is simply that they take the client's upfront retainer fee, contact the timeshare company with a form letter, and offer a deed a lieu of foreclosure, (perhaps with a couple thousand dollars in payoff money.)

My suspicion is that timeshare companies would rather take the DILOF and resell the property quickly for full price to the next sucker. than tie themselves up in legal wrangling, foreclosure costs, going to auction, etc.

Hence Finn's advice (quoted in a newspaper article I found online that mentions him) to his clients: "Just stop payments and don't contact the company."

The thing is, if that's all it takes, then I don't need to pay his high upfront fees.
 

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@waxkylucy,

Not sure why you took offense at my statement about the Finn group. My suspicion is simply that they take the client's upfront retainer fee, contact the timeshare company with a form letter, and offer a deed a lieu of foreclosure, (perhaps with a couple thousand dollars in payoff money.)

My suspicion is that timeshare companies would rather take the DILOF and resell the property quickly for full price to the next sucker. than tie themselves up in legal wrangling, foreclosure costs, going to auction, etc.

Hence Finn's advice (quoted in a newspaper article I found online that mentions him) to his clients: "Just stop payments and don't contact the company."

The thing is, if that's all it takes, then I don't need to pay his high upfront fees.

With all due respect, facts and information (neither of which you yet possess regarding Mike Finn) trump your assorted "suspicions and assumptions".

If it wasn't abundantly clear already, the only offense I take is at your completely uninformed presumptions about a decent and honorable man you know absolutely nothing about and with whom you have never even had so much as a conversation. Bush league --- at best.
 

tschwa2

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It all depends on how much you value your good credit. Even the deed in lieu can cause a hit. Its never really clear how much of a hit and how lenders will look at a black mark from a timeshare company. Some may ignore it. If you don't pay the timeshare company can add penalties and additional fees. They can report you for several months or even a year or more as delinquent on each payment. They will eventually sell the debt to a credit collector, foreclose and move on.
 

ravenna

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@waxylucy,

I do not suspect your Mr Finn of doing anything dishonest. In fact, I assume his big name and law degrees help him sell the DILOF proposal to the companies - they would rather settle fast than get tied up wrangling with a savvy lawyer who knows the biz. There's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps his name and pre-existing relationship with the companies is what spares his clients from hits to their credit rating.

Again I am not sure why you think I am slandering him.

You seem intimately involved somehow. If you know how he does what he does (which, according to testimonials on his site, is get clients out of their legally binding contracts), please do share. I am eager to learn.

IOW: if I am wrong in my suspicions and assumptions, please correct me by providing the relevant facts. If all you can say is "you're wrong! But I won't say how I know or what I know", then I have no basis for understanding your huffiness, and remain perplexed at your emotional response.
 
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ravenna

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@tschwa,

Yes, that's my thinking too. And fortunately I am in the lucky position of not needing credit: my tastes are simple and I am middle aged and financially comfortable. Assuming none of my children need me to post million-dollar bail in the next ten years, I should be in the clear.
 

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@waxylucy,

I do not suspect your Mr Finn of doing anything dishonest. In fact, I assume his big name and law degrees help him sell the DILOF proposal to the companies - they would rather settle fast than get tied up wrangling with a savvy lawyer who knows the biz. There's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps his name and pre-existing relationship with the companies is what spares his clients from hits to their credit rating.

Again I am not sure why you think I am slandering him.

You seem intimately involved somehow. If you know how he does what he does (which, according to testimonials on his site, is get clients out of their legally binding contracts), please do share. I am eager to learn.

IOW: if I am wrong in my assumptions, please correct me by providing the relevant facts. If all you can say is "you're wrong! But I won't say how I know or what I know", then I have no basis to believe you.

1. You do a whole lot of assuming, but possess no actual facts. That you choose to do so is surely your prerogative, but nonetheless annoying.
2. I never mentioned "slander". I merely noted (and I do so now once again) that you quite simply have no idea what you're speculating about.
3. I have no affiliation with Michael Finn. I've met him and I respect (and share) his disdain for deceitful timeshare developer practices. That's all.
4. Mike Finn practices law in Largo, FL. If you are indeed "eager to learn" what he can do for you (if anything), then at least have the basic courtesy to communicate directly with him to see if he would even consider taking you on as a client at all --- before proclaiming any unfounded conclusions.
5. I haven't asserted anything at all for you to believe or not believe; I respectfully suggest that you sharpen your reading comprehension skills.

I hope that HGVC will voluntarily allow and process your attempt at contract rescission after the rescission period had expired. Good luck.
 
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ravenna

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@WL,

Well, that response was much less huffy. And much more enlightening, I am sure! Thank you.
 
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LannyPC

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So now I am wondering why people saddled with unwanted timeshares in nonjudicial states don't all just default and walk away. I would consider this immoral in most circumstances, with most loans, but the timeshare sales tactics I encountered were so dishonest that defaulting feels justified.

The issue with that dilemma is that defaulting and walking away does not hurt the sales people or developer one iota. The people you are affecting are the other owners at the resort if you are refusing to pay the maintenance fees. If you default on the loan, you are hurting the third party lender (or whoever you are mortgaging through).

Yes, I know most in your situation would like to tell the sales people what they can do with their TSs and where they can stick them, but defaulting does not really bring any suitable justice.

And also many "people [who are] saddled with unwanted timeshares in nonjudicial states d[o]... just default and walk away". That's been discussed many times here before on TUG. And as many TS owners here on TUG will tell you, it hurts them in the form of higher MFs. And of course, many who want to default and walk away fear the repercussions such as hounding collection calls, credit hits, etc.
 

ravenna

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Understood.
In my case, the lender is Hilton itself.
And if I (or anyone) defaults, doesn't the company reclaim the property - by foreclosure or DILOF - and resell to another person .... who does pay the MF?

But yes - that's another reason to try to settle with the company rather than go months without paying.

Although I hate to think of others being sucked in after I bow out :(.
 

TUGBrian

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again, to be clear...every timeshare owner has the option to stop paying and we can assure you that you will no longer be the owner of said timeshare.

what owners are looking for with "cancellation companies" or "lawyers" are ways to avoid the financial repercussions that come with defaulting on a loan and or a signed contract.
 

ravenna

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Thanks, Brian. I wish I had a better handle on what the company is likely to do me, financially. Every time I convince myself that they'll just settle up fast, then I swing back into wondering, "But would they garnish my wages? Would a collection company hunt me even after foreclosure?" And then it seems simpler and less stressful to accept my mistake and pay the mortgage in its entirety if/when it becomes clear that my letter of rescission has been rejected. After all, a timeshare isn't the worst thing in the world and it would actually suit my lifestyle. I'm luckier than many, in that I can afford it comfortably.

I am just so damn infuriated by the lies - especially the fact that they *hid* the rescission document from me during the signing, so I wouldn't know my legal rights. How sleazy is that!? I mean, there was a lot of sleaze that day, in retrospect, but that's the sleazy cherry on top.

And of course, I am angry with myself. I didn't bother to investigate timeshares before walking into the sales pitch, because I was sure I wasn't going to fall for their nonsense. I imagined I'd be in a group of potential buyers, sitting at desks being bored to death while a guy at the front of the room made his pitch to us all with a PowerPoint presentation. I joked with friends beforehand that I would put wax in my ears like the sailors of Odysseus... even told my daughter to text me in an hour with a message MOM DON'T DO IT. And she did. And yet - I was already too far gone! And when a point came that I wanted to back out, I felt bad "letting down" the nice grandpa-type salesman and disappointing the other lady who was so nice and helpful, after they'd already pulled together the paperwork and gone to all that trouble for me...

Hilarious.
 

bnoble

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Don't beat yourself up. These folks have been doing this for years, and they are pros. As a first-timer, you are new at this, and are at a disadvantage when negotiating. Plenty of TUGgers bought their first timeshare from the developer---and some have done it more than once. True, some of them might regret having spent more than they should have, but few regret owning.
 

WalnutBaron

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Don't beat yourself up. These folks have been doing this for years, and they are pros. As a first-timer, you are new at this, and are at a disadvantage when negotiating. Plenty of TUGgers bought their first timeshare from the developer---and some have done it more than once. True, some of them might regret having spent more than they should have, but few regret owning.

Count me as one of those: bought through developer in 2008, sold the unit at a brutal loss in 2014. Have purchased three resale units since at a fraction of the retail price and love every one of them. And I've learned a ton from TUG and grateful for all of it.
 

ravenna

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@ above

Thanks, guys - that's very kind of you both.
It's been an emotional roller coaster. When I googled HGVC, I found a site where they were rated 1.5 stars and owners complained nonstop: "I can never book a stay anywhere; it's always full; I can't use it!" Then I surfed for escape hatches and fell into the clutches of Timeshare Answers, who told me the TS contract had RUINED MY LIFE AND MY PROGENY to the seventh generation.... and only they could save me from doom and disaster! (Took me a couple days to decide they were no different from the Hilton sharks, just hard-selling the opposite product.)

Now, deep breath, it's all okay; it's just money and desert and beaches and unimagined possibilities. I never would have thought of timeshares and vacations, if I hadn't stumbled - blindfolded and naive - into this fascinating world. In a few years, who knows? I might be hooked on a traveling lifestyle and be owner of a few different TS's (bought on the cheap next time) thanks to my initial dumb move.

@ Walnut, I would like to hear more. Why did you sell one timeshare only to buy different ones? Is it the MF, the availability, the locations, that made the difference for you?
 
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bnoble

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Now, deep breath, it's all okay; it's just money and desert and beaches and unimagined possibilities.
That's the spirit! I've been to three different HGVC resorts---Sea World in Orlando, Lagoon on Oahu, and Kings Land on the Big Island. All three were top notch.

Why did you sell one timeshare only to buy different ones? Is it the MF, the availability, the locations, that made the difference for you?
Free advice: You just made the first rookie mistake---buying a full-freight timeshare. Don't make the second! It is very easy when you first get involved in timesharing to start adding to your portfolio before you decide you really need to! This question worries me that you are thinking these thoughts.
 

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Free advice: You just made the first rookie mistake---buying a full-freight timeshare. Don't make the second! It is very easy when you first get involved in timesharing to start adding to your portfolio before you decide you really need to! This question worries me that you are thinking these thoughts.

The other mistakes that are made are going to an "Owners' Update" when visiting the resort. It's just another sales pitch to try to peel tens of thousands of dollars away from you for something you either do not need or can get for a fraction of the cost. And, of course, do not fall for the infamous resale/rental scam where people call you up telling you they have buyers/renters for your TS and will pay you a king's ransom for it --- if you pay them an upfront fee.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Nevada is 5 calendar days but the contract the OP signed specifically said 5 business days. A quick web search revealed that per Nevada law circa 2013 a business day is everyday but Sunday and a handful of holidays. Unless they changed the legal definition after that date the OP would still be out of luck as they rescinded in 6 business days not 5 (and 7 calendar days).
Somewhere in the sales contract there is almost certainly a provision that specifies which states rules govern the interpretation. That is the key clause to examine; not the location where the sale actually occurred.
 

Passepartout

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It was never clear to me whether Ravenna sent a rescission letter even though is may have been a day or two late? I hope (s)he did. You never know, some clerk may just process the rescission anyway. Stranger things have happened. Probably too late now, but you never know.

Jim
 

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@ above

Thanks, guys - that's very kind of you both.

@ Walnut, I would like to hear more. Why did you sell one timeshare only to buy different ones? Is it the MF, the availability, the locations, that made the difference for you?

Ravenna, I bought at Westin Princeville--a 2BR lockout floating week that carried 148,000 StarOptions for the ability to trade within the Westin/Starwood system. The biggest problem was that Starwood jacked up the MF's something awful, with annual increases exceeding 10% in some years, and never less than 6% during the time I owned it. By the time I sold it, MF's were approaching $3000 annually. After taking a bath on the sale, I plowed the proceeds into the purchase of Hyatt Highlands Inn, where MF's are about half of what they are at WPORV and I can drive to the resort, thereby saving on airfare and rental cars. We've also purchased 9600 Hilton Grand Vacations Club points as well as a 2BR lockoff at Hyatt Pinon Pointe in Sedona. We love the Hilton and Hyatt systems and are happy with the way the resorts we own at are managed as well as the flexibility to trade within the systems or--on the rare occasion we elect to do so--deposit into II (Hyatt) or RCI (Hilton) to use timeshares elsewhere. We've had some awesome vacations through trades into Italy, New Zealand, and Mexico using our Hyatt or Hilton trade value within the exchange companies.

By the way, I do disagree with something you've read about the inflexibility of the HGVC system "always being full and I can't stay anywhere". Not true! But here is what you have to remember: if you're planning travel during peak season, you do have to get online at midnight Eastern Time on the date exactly corresponding to 9 months before your desired travel date to make "Club Reservations". The window for your Home Resort is 12 months, meaning you get priority booking at your Home Resort and should take advantage of it if that's where you want to vacation in any particular year. Does it require a lot of advance planning? Yes. But that's the nature of timeshare, especially for highly-desired destinations. If you're not a good planner, you're going to get frustrated.

Another thing to remember: if your dates are flexible, the HGVC website will show you dates that are available, even if your first choice is not available. I've done this many times, starting with a set of dates that aren't available for my preferred resort, but then seeing nearby dates that do work and booking. My advice is to always make your Hilton booking first before purchasing airfare so you don't have to suffer the insufferable airline change fees if your original dates are not available from HGVC.

Relax! You made a painful mistake that a lot of the best of us have made before we found TUG. But--as you said--the worst of it is that you'll have a nice unit in a very good system that will encourage you to take some memorable vacations with your family and friends.
 

ravenna

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@Walnut, thanks for your help! Those are pearls of wisdom.

I have been to the HGVC site (where they still say I have 7000 points... it's not lookin' good for my rescission!) and I find it extremely frustrating.

For one thing: How do I learn the point-cost of my proposed vacation? The only way I have figured out is to pick a resort, pick a start/leave date, and let the site spit out how many points that stay would cost. Then I adjust my days up or down to get near 7000. This is really cumbersome. Worse yet, most resorts on the website won't let me pick a proposed start/leave date in the first place - like the District and many others, which say "Can't be booked online". The Hilton salesman showed me a points conversion chart based on room size and platinum/gold/silver/bronze. But the chart wasn't included in my packet and I don't see it anywhere on the website.

Bringing me to issue two: most resorts say "can't be booked online", and if I click "Check availability" I get nothing but a blank screen. Which leaves me in the dark about available dates, point-cost, etc.

And issue three: Even those limited resorts that supposedly have online booking and do show me a calendar when I click "check availabilty," have a technical glitch: it's really hard to advance the calendar from April to May to June etc. Sometimes it won't advance; at other times it advances 3 months but no farther, etc.

If you can shed any light, I'd be grateful.

(Mods, I am sorry to post this here - I realize specific HGVC questions belong elsewhere in the forum But I have @walnut's ear and she/he is being so helpful!)

EDITED to add: Okay, wait.. I was using my iphone to check the HGVC site. Now that I've looked on my desktop I can see more, including a points-conversion chart at the bottom of the screen (for the District, which is what I'm interested in.) And I can call up a blank calendar and use it to enter my proposed start/leave dates. But I can't enter a desired room size or check availability, or actually book anything if I wanted to. Insanely irritating.
 
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ravenna

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Finally got a callback from the HGVC headquarters. Assistant to the Rescission Lady says that all he can tell me is, I am still listed as an owner.

Gave me the email address of the "Quality Assurance Manager" in Vegas who lied to me during contract signing.

Said he would "attach a note to my file" that I am very unhappy and have engaged a lawyer.

I don't know if I am being falsely placated or if I am getting somewhere. I emailed the Vegas "QAM".

Will keep you posted in the hope my experience will help the next sucker!!
 

TUGBrian

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the "assistant to the rescission lady" called you back to tell you she didnt have an answer for you?

that seems quite bizarre. (both that you got a call back, that there is a "rescission lady" with her own assistant, and that they called you to specifically not answer your question)
 

ravenna

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By "Reacission Lady" I mean the person I sent my letter of rescission to. "Attention Ms XXXX. Contracts Division: Rescissions"

The guy said he was her assistant. So, who knows? I imagine a thousand worker bees in cubicles with very specific orders: "Act apologetic! Never admit fault! Be extremely placating while doing nothing and passing the buck in circles!"
 

ravenna

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I should add that I left 2 messages with Rescission Lady: The first was just "Hi, I rescinded, please get back to me." But the second was "Hi, I rescinded but am having second thoughts and may possibly want to keep the property after all; please tell me if I still own it!"

(I thought that was better bait.)
 
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