Tennessee lawsuits against wyndham sales practices

[TUGBrian]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/05/prweb14355788.htm

should be interesting to see the outcome of these...

 

[sts1732]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/05/prweb14355788.htm

should be interesting to see the outcome of these...

It would be nice if a favorable decision would be handed down, and it could be used as a precedence in other jurisdictions/states.

 

[Pietin]

I wonder why an investigative reporter never sat through an owner's update. It might be interesting to see it on TV. Hope the senior citizens win their case.

 

[icydog]

I can see other lawyers, in different jurisdictions, following suit. There's money to be made and Wyndham has deep pockets.

I am a senior citizen and I have sat through sales pitches in which the salespeople have downright lied to me. I wish I could sue these companies, when it happens, on behalf of the older people who have been scammed by these liars.

 

[DanZale2000]

There is an active suit against Diamond Resorts for ensnaring elderly consumers in a deceptive and fraudulent scheme to sell points-based timeshare memberships.

http://insidetimeshare.com/1billion-law-suit-diamond-resorts-international/

 

[TUGBrian]

billion dollars....good to see lawyers being reasonable!

 

[pedro47]

Personally I hope the lawyers win & rec'd a huge settlement not a billion dollars because those developers will passed it down to the owners.

 

[CO skier]

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/05/prweb14355788.htm

should be interesting to see the outcome of these...

My observation is that newspeople like to write sensational articles, but very, very rarely is there any follow-up.

The results of these lawsuits was less than sensational (maybe that is why there is rarely any follow-up).

Devine v. Wyndham Worldwide Operations, Inc. Case #3:16-cv-02757

Case Filed: Oct 20, 2016

Case Terminated: Nov 14, 2017


Hogle v. Wyndham Worldwide Operations, Inc., Case #3:16-cv-02931

Case Filed: Nov. 18, 2016

Case Terminated: Sept. 15, 2017

ORDER OF DISMISSAL: The parties advised the Court that they amicably resolved their differences. Accordingly, This matter is dismissed. The Court retains jurisdiction for the limited purpose of enforcing the terms of the settlement agreement. Signed by District Judge Victoria A. Roberts on 9/15/17. (am) (Entered: 09/15/2017)


Coggins, et. al v. Wyndham Worldwide Operations, Inc., Case # #3:16-cv-00613

Case Filed: Oct. 18, 2016

Demand: $75,000,000

Case Terminated: Aug. 31, 2017

Parties did not participate in mediation/arbitration.


Sanford v. Wyndham Worldwide Operations, Inc., Case #3:17-CV-00036

Case Filed: Feb 06, 2017

Case Terminated: Nov 22, 2017



Oswald v. Wyndham

Resolved pursuant to confidential agreement


Little v. Wyndham Worldwide Operations

Resolved pursuant to confidential agreement

I do not have access to the settlement details available through PACER. The original case filings looked like boilerplate with the only difference being the names of the plaintiffs. The law firm was not taking on the timeshare industry, they just wanted to ring the cash register, and it looks like they have found a cottage industry for that.

https://www.givenslawfirm.com/lawsuits-filed-against-wyndham


Like the gift cards for owner updates, these lawsuits are just another cost of doing business for Wyndham and other timeshare marketers. Nothing changes.​

 

[TUGBrian]

thanks for posting updates on these!

 

[HitchHiker71]

Are the two Mass Action cases listed on the law firm website still active?

https://www.givenslawfirm.com/lawsuits-filed-against-wyndham

They are not listing the Mass Action cases as settled. Clearly Wyndham chose to settle with confidentiality on all of the lawsuits filed on behalf of individuals. Curious to get status on the Mass Action lawsuits which paint a much broader brush in comparison.

IME the courts do NOT take kindly to any elder abuse. I have direct experience with elder abuse cases both professionally and personally, it is a serious felony legal issue. That said these are probably civil vs criminal cases. Still, it is federal court, so if the law firm comes out on top, precedent will change the industry.

 

[Jan M.]

Are the two Mass Action cases listed on the law firm website still active?

https://www.givenslawfirm.com/lawsuits-filed-against-wyndham

They are not listing the Mass Action cases as settled. Clearly Wyndham chose to settle with confidentiality on all of the lawsuits filed on behalf of individuals. Curious to get status on the Mass Action lawsuits which paint a much broader brush in comparison.

IME the courts do NOT take kindly to any elder abuse. I have direct experience with elder abuse cases both professionally and personally, it is a serious felony legal issue. That said these are probably civil vs criminal cases. Still, it is federal court, so if the law firm comes out on top, precedent will change the industry.

Wyndham like any big company would prefer to settle out of court with confidentiality agreements. Actually going through the whole trial process is expensive and public plus the jury could conceivably award a higher sum than it would cost them to settle out of court. I didn't see dates on that list of 12 lawsuits in Tennessee that were all settled out of court but it sounded like they were recent and I'm going to assume they were all from the Great Smokies Lodge sales center. Here on TUG we've heard a number of bad reports about that sales center.

Last year I remember reading on a similar site that Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company and about the same as the total of the others I saw listed. I've always said Wyndham has a good product but their sales practices give their company and the whole industry a bad name. It's past time for them to give an entirely new business model a chance. The old guard really needs to understand that the younger generations that will soon be their target market are almost all more computer savvy than the "more mature", lol trying not to say older, generations. A company that wants to prosper would do well to look to their reputation if they want to keep the younger generations business.

 

[skotrla]

Wyndham like any big company would prefer to settle out of court with confidentiality agreements. Actually going through the whole trial process is expensive and public plus the jury could conceivably award a higher sum than it would cost them to settle out of court. I didn't see dates on that list of 12 lawsuits in Tennessee that were all settled out of court but it sounded like they were recent and I'm going to assume they were all from the Great Smokies Lodge sales center. Here on TUG we've heard a number of bad reports about that sales center.

Last year I remember reading on a similar site that Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company and about the same as the total of the others I saw listed. I've always said Wyndham has a good product but their sales practices give their company and the whole industry a bad name. It's past time for them to give an entirely new business model a chance. The old guard really needs to understand that the younger generations that will soon be their target market are almost all more computer savvy than the "more mature", lol trying not to say older, generations. A company that wants to prosper would do well to look to their reputation if they want to keep the younger generations business.

Anyone know what percentage of the timeshare market Wyndham has? 50% of the lawsuits isn't necessarily a bad thing for Wyndham if they have 50% of the market. Agree that the industry as a whole has an issue, just not sure whether Wyndham is any worse than the rest.

-Scott

 

[CO skier]

Last year I remember reading on a similar site that Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company and about the same as the total of the others I saw listed.

Anyone know what percentage of the timeshare market Wyndham has? 50% of the lawsuits isn't necessarily a bad thing for Wyndham if they have 50% of the market. Agree that the industry as a whole has an issue, just not sure whether Wyndham is any worse than the rest.

-Scott

I thought the same thing about market share and comparative "evilness" when I read the first post about active lawsuits .

So I consulted the most excellent TUG Timeshare System Comparison chart

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...jor-point-system-timeshare-developers.256032/

Adding the Wyndham Vacation Ownership resorts of Club Wyndham (100+ units), WorldMark the Club (90+ units) and Shell Vacations (24 units) yields 214+ units. This is more than double the next highest system, Diamond with 96 units, and after that Marriott with 80 units.

Wyndham Vacation Ownership has about 900,000 owners; more than double of Marriott, that according to Wikipedia, has about 400,000 owners, so there is that coincidental data point.

Is there any timeshare developer that does not employ high pressure sales techniques to make a sale? This has been the timeshare sales model for the past 30 years at least.

"... Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company ..."​

should not imply that Wyndham is "twice as bad" as other timeshare systems, it is simply a reflection that Wyndham is "twice as large" as any other timeshare system.

​

 

[Jan M.]

I thought the same thing about market share and comparative "evilness" when I read the first post about active lawsuits .

So I consulted the most excellent TUG Timeshare System Comparison chart

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...jor-point-system-timeshare-developers.256032/

Adding the Wyndham Vacation Ownership resorts of Club Wyndham (100+ units), WorldMark the Club (90+ units) and Shell Vacations (24 units) yields 214+ units. This is more than double the next highest system, Diamond with 96 units, and after that Marriott with 80 units.

Wyndham Vacation Ownership has about 900,000 owners; more than double of Marriott, that according to Wikipedia, has about 400,000 owners, so there is that coincidental data point.

Is there any timeshare developer that does not employ high pressure sales techniques to make a sale? This has been the timeshare sales model for the past 30 years at least.

"... Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company ..."​

should not imply that Wyndham is "twice as bad" as other timeshare systems, it is simply a reflection that Wyndham is "twice as large" as any other timeshare system.

I never said they were twice as bad or that other timeshare companies didn't do the same thing. And I don't follow the other timeshare system forums to be able to say whether they are just as bad or Wyndham is worse. However since Wyndham is as you pointed out clearly the leader in the timeshare industry it would set an example and raise the bar if they were to be the first to make changes. And do it before the courts force them. HitchHiker71 mentioned elder abuse and we've heard many tales of Wyndham sales presentations resulting in elderly owners being conned into additional sales for non existent reasons because the salesperson blatantly lied to them. As HitchHker71 pointed out the courts take a very dim view of elder abuse and the resulting lawsuits could change the industry. Btw as I mentioned one other time in a different thread the age for elder abuse is 60. Ouch that hurts. Lol.

Just curious. Do you know where HGVC falls in comparison to Wyndham and Marriott? Not sure why but for some reason I thought HGVC was bigger than Marriott.

You correctly said that this has been timeshare business model for the last 30 years at least. Timeshares have come a long ways over that time but they are still using the same old outdated business model. My first point was that the old guard needs to look at the changing dynamic and recognize that it is way past time for a new business model. My other point was that although some of the older generation are quite computer and internet search savvy, almost all of the younger generations are. It becomes increasingly harder to hide anything and a company that wants to stay number one would do well to look to their reputation.

And I will say it again because I believe it bears repeating. Wyndham does have a good product. However their sales tactics don't reflect that.

 

[CO skier]

I never said they were twice as bad or that other timeshare companies didn't do the same thing.

But it clearly implied that Wyndham was somehow different from other timeshare systems.

So, please explain exactly what you meant when you repeated what you read somewhere, "Last year I remember reading on a similar site that Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company and about the same as the total of the others I saw listed.”

 

[CO skier]

Just curious. Do you know where HGVC falls in comparison to Wyndham and Marriott? Not sure why but for some reason I thought HGVC was bigger than Marriott.

According the TUG Timeshare System Comparison

Wyndham = 214+ resorts
Marriott = 80 resorts
Hilton Grand Vacations = 64 resorts

 

[Jan M.]

But it clearly implied that Wyndham was somehow different from other timeshare systems.

So, please explain exactly what you meant when you repeated what you read somewhere, "Last year I remember reading on a similar site that Wyndham had by far the highest number of then active lawsuits of any of the timeshare companies. If I remember correctly it was about double the number of the next closest timeshare company and about the same as the total of the others I saw listed.”

Sorry I could have made it clearer where I was going with that. Because of the larger volume of lawsuits it brings greater attention to Wyndham.

That was a follow up to my point about settling lawsuits out of court being cheaper and far less public than having them go to trial. I also said that from what it looked like on the link HitchHiker71 posted that the 12 lawsuits settled out of court in Tennessee were recent and I guessed tied to the Great Smokies Lodge sales center. And that we've heard a number of bad reports regarding the lies told by the sales people from by people who've attended sales presentations and updates there. One of our TUG members was definitely a victim of elder abuse at this sales center.

I think it was last year that someone included in their post a link to an article about the number of current lawsuits of all the major timeshare companies. It was around the time people were posting about the multi-million dollar settlement the former Wyndham sales person was awarded. As you pointed out and that article showed, Wyndham may have the most lawsuits but other timeshare companies have their share of them too.

The little guy may be just as guilty as the big guy but because of the volume people will hear about more frequently and remember the big guy. It doesn't take a marketing genius to see the handwriting on the wall and be the first to come out with a campaign implying they are more reputable and should be trusted because they've taken steps to prevent these numerous abuses. If Wyndham can't release their death grip on their outmoded sales practices some other timeshare system is going to grab that advantage and run with it. There is no such thing as too big to fail when it comes to business.

 

[Jan M.]

According the TUG Timeshare System Comparison

Wyndham = 214+ resorts
Marriott = 80 resorts
Hilton Grand Vacations = 64 resorts

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. There is something else you might know that I'm also curious about. It has nothing to do with this thread just something I was wondering about after recently reading about Wyndham acquiring Worldmark in order to find out the date that happened. I thought I read that acquiring Worldmark catapulted Wyndham to the top in the timeshare industry. I know Wyndham acquired Shell and Worldmark. Are there any additional systems or groups of resorts they or Fairfield acquired that you know of? I was looking on the map to see which popular destinations Wyndham doesn't have resorts in and wondering if there are even any smaller timeshare systems left that would give Wyndham something they don't already have without mostly duplicating too many locations they already have resorts in.

 

[bendadin]

I, for one, had a really bad experience at Great Smokies Lodge. They exhibited practices that would have their real estate licenses stripped. I can't wait to go to Vegas for the Owner's Meeting.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I never said they were twice as bad or that other timeshare companies didn't do the same thing. And I don't follow the other timeshare system forums to be able to say whether they are just as bad or Wyndham is worse. However since Wyndham is as you pointed out clearly the leader in the timeshare industry it would set an example and raise the bar if they were to be the first to make changes. And do it before the courts force them. HitchHiker71 mentioned elder abuse and we've heard many tales of Wyndham sales presentations resulting in elderly owners being conned into additional sales for non existent reasons because the salesperson blatantly lied to them. As HitchHker71 pointed out the courts take a very dim view of elder abuse and the resulting lawsuits could change the industry. Btw as I mentioned one other time in a different thread the age for elder abuse is 60. Ouch that hurts. Lol.

Just curious. Do you know where HGVC falls in comparison to Wyndham and Marriott? Not sure why but for some reason I thought HGVC was bigger than Marriott.

You correctly said that this has been timeshare business model for the last 30 years at least. Timeshares have come a long ways over that time but they are still using the same old outdated business model. My first point was that the old guard needs to look at the changing dynamic and recognize that it is way past time for a new business model. My other point was that although some of the older generation are quite computer and internet search savvy, almost all of the younger generations are. It becomes increasingly harder to hide anything and a company that wants to stay number one would do well to look to their reputation.

And I will say it again because I believe it bears repeating. Wyndham does have a good product. However their sales tactics don't reflect that.

Agree 100% with everything you said here.

I foresee that timeshare sales will eventually go the same way that auto sales have largely gone over the past 10 years. Used to be that auto sales were right up there with timeshare sales in so far as having a generally bad rap across the board. With the widespread dissemination of pricing and information via a cloud first mobile first world, we all now have powerful computers walking around with us on our persons. It's entirely too easy to pull up competing information and it's all but impossible to trick a millennial into buying something for a high price because they are so internet savvy. Even my generation (gen X I think - born in 1971) is somewhat tech savvy and less likely to fall victim to high pressure sales and to come to any pricing negotiation armed with multiple dealer quotes and prices. As a result, automobile dealerships have become much more customer focused and customer friendly when dealing with their potential buyers. Eventually I believe the same thing will occur with timeshare companies. IIRC Diamond has already recently overhauled their timeshare sales approach to a more open and transparent model along this line. As more timeshare companies alter this sales methods, others will follow, or be left behind.

My experience here with Wyndham actually serves as a good example. Even though we fell for the initial high pressure sales tactics, going against our better judgment over vacation when our guard was down, I quickly recovered, went to the internet, found TUG, and rescinded within the rescission period. We are seeing more and more new members like me who find TUG quickly and are able to rescind quickly. The internet is a wonderful tool when used in this way.