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skotrla

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Examples help me, so I post in examples. When someone else posts an example, I can plug my own numbers in and then figure out if their result also applies to me.

-Scott
 

ronparise

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ARP is not unique to Wyndham - the same concept exists in all points timeshare systems that I am aware of (aka Home Resort Priority). Nothing in my response was Wyndham-specific. If there are specific differences in the Wyndham system that I am missing, then highlighting those would be helpful.

I didn't see that the OP was even asking about ARP? I responded to CO skier's assertion that ARP is important with a caveat that ARP is expensive (to be more precise, ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points).

-Scott
That’s just nonsense Scott

...All points have home resort priority
...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
....Maintenance fee rates vary resort to resort
....Typically the resorts that have the lowest maintenance fee rates have the highest maintenance fees
....Some resorts have lots of times that you need arp
....some resorts have no time when you need arp.

You just can’t make the general conclusion that arp is expensive

The fact is that arp reservations cost exactly the same as non arp
 

skotrla

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That’s just nonsense Scott

...All points have home resort priority
...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
....Maintenance fee rates vary resort to resort
....Typically the resorts that have the lowest maintenance fee rates have the highest maintenance fees
....Some resorts have lots of times that you need arp
....some resorts have no time when you need arp.

You just can’t make the general conclusion that arp is expensive

The fact is that arp reservations cost exactly the same as non arp

The original post I responded to said that going for the "lowest maintenance points" limited your availability. Expensive is of course a relative term, but in my example, points at the resort where the owner wanted ARP had maintenance that was $2/1K more than the other points the owner had. For most owners, the resorts they want to go to are not the lowest maintenance resorts, so owning points for ARP reservations is more expensive than owning points at the lowest maintenance cost. It's not that an ARP reservation costs more, is that owning the right points to be able to make ARP reservations at the resorts you want to go to costs more.

As I said initially, you can look at it either way, but in my opinion if New Orleans points are more expensive than your "low maintenance points," then any New Orleans ARP reservations you make should bear the cost of the more expensive points. All points are equal unless you are using the points for ARP reservations, and then the specific points and the cost structure of those points becomes important.

I'll try to look for specific resorts and maintenance costs from the 2018 maintenance cost thread to further explain my point with more specifics.

-Scott
 

MaryBella7

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Don't forget there is a higher upfront cost of low maintenance fee contracts that you have not factored into anything. Or the higher point value needed to book one resort over another for the same amount of space. Sometimes the lower point resort is the one that needs the arp, but the higher one is the one with low MF per point.

It isn't that we don't understand your point. We just don't agree with it and feel it is lacking some of the subtleties of ownership that you don't seem to be considering. You keep acting like more numbers will get we owners, the ones who DO actually understand our ownership, to agree with you. This isn't the 90% you referenced earlier who don't understand responding to you.
 

skotrla

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That’s just nonsense Scott

...All points have home resort priority
...Maintenance fees vary resort to resort.
....Maintenance fee rates vary resort to resort
....Typically the resorts that have the lowest maintenance fee rates have the highest maintenance fees
....Some resorts have lots of times that you need arp
....some resorts have no time when you need arp.

You just can’t make the general conclusion that arp is expensive

The fact is that arp reservations cost exactly the same as non arp

OK, here goes a post with more specific resorts -

An owner owns 500K points in San Francisco @ $3.50/1K but they only go to Atlantic City where maintenance is $6.50/1K.

The owner needs more points and is trying to decide between 500K more in San Francisco or 500K more in Atlantic City so that they can make ARP reservations in Atlantic City.

What is the cost of the annual premium to own the Atlantic City points vs. the cheaper San Francisco points? I would say $1500 (500K x $3).

Let's say the owner decides to get the more expensive Atlantic City points for ARP privileges, but he can't use any of his points one year so he offers to make reservations for family and friends.

A family member asks about ARP reservations to Atlantic City for a total of 500K points - is the owner's break even point on the maintenance for this reservation $6.50/1K, $3.50/1K, or $5/1K (the average of the 2)? I would say $6.50/1K.

Another family member asks about a couple of reservations to a different resort for 500K points - is the owner's break even point on the maintenance for this reservation $6.50/1K, $3.50/1K, or $5/1K (the average of the 2)? I would say $3.50/1K.

Even if the owners chooses to charge both family members the same, in my opinion, he took a loss on the first reservation and made up for it on the second reservation, so that on average he came out OK.

Using more expensive points for non-ARP reservations is very similar to using low cost points for Wyndham Rewards points or RCI deposits or cruises - it's better than losing them, but a suboptimal use of points.

-Scott
 

wjappraise

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In my experience, ARP has value at some of the higher price MF resorts. For instance, I own 850,000 points at Royal Vista. I like getting four rooms a year for a week each, hopefully on the ocean front. Even if I cannot get ocean front rooms, I can at least get rooms during the heavy "snow bird" season if I wish. If I wait until ten months out, there are several weeks during the winter that there would be NO INVENTORY available at all at ten months. Royal Vista is the highest MF resort I own.

I also own several contracts at Bonnet Creek, which has become a higher MF resort as well. That one is not as useful in most instances, as inventory is available at ten months for most, if not all, weeks. So, ownership here is expensive without a good return in ARP use.

I also own a few (far too few) at lower cost resorts that I do not visit. These provide a good bang for the buck and I should probably sell some of the higher cost MF contracts and get some of the cheaper ones. However, most savvy buyers are aware of the enhanced value of some resorts, so the outlay of purchase price is higher than CWA or Bonnet Creek contracts.

The sweet spot is some of the newer resorts with higher points cost per week. Canterbury, National Harbor, 45 NYC, and others have a lower than average MF rate. I haven’t seen any Clearwater Beach resales yet, but would guess they are lower too. And the first ones to hit eBay or Sumday will sell for a premium.

So, Scott’s point does have some merit, but it is limited - ARP is worth the higher MFs if you can’t get rooms at ten months, and not worth the higher MFs if ten month availability is plentiful.

Basically, the best advice is what has been shown here numerous times - buy where you want/need ARP, or buy the lowest MF rate. Great advice, and very simple. Covers all scenarios.

That is my experience in this matter.
 
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skotrla

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Don't forget there is a higher upfront cost of low maintenance fee contracts that you have not factored into anything. Or the higher point value needed to book one resort over another for the same amount of space. Sometimes the lower point resort is the one that needs the arp, but the higher one is the one with low MF per point.

It isn't that we don't understand your point. We just don't agree with it and feel it is lacking some of the subtleties of ownership that you don't seem to be considering. You keep acting like more numbers will get we owners, the ones who DO actually understand our ownership, to agree with you. This isn't the 90% you referenced earlier who don't understand responding to you.

That's a completely different topic - that's the decision between paying more up front for low maintenance vs. paying less upfront for high maintenance and is not directly related to ARP.

Low maintenance vs. high maintenance and having ARP privileges vs. not having ARP privileges are fairly universal concepts across most timeshare systems.

-Scott
 

MaryBella7

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Because you like examples, here is one. I want to go to Myrtle Beach for the 4th of July with my family. To get a 2 bedroom at Seawatch, it is 203,000. To get a 2 bedroom with an ocean front at Ocean Boulevard is 375,000.

I need ARP to book at Seawatch. CWA is 5.76/ 1K (I am not sure what Seawatch's current MF is, so I am using CWA) That room will cost me $1170 with ARP.

Ocean Boulevard will not require ARP. If I own Canterbury at 3.55/ 1K, the two bedroom will cost 1331 - higher if I want an upper floor.

ARP just saved me a couple of hundred dollars for my beachfront 4th of July Myrtle Beach vacation. (Yes, I know that MB has reciprocal booking, but I am just using room cost differences to make an example since I am familiar with those resorts).

While someone who is not an owner can certainly be knowledgeable about Wyndham, I am not sure why you keep arguing with owners about a product they do know. It is insulting to our intelligence to assume you know better when you haven't used the product.

And, if you are buying to get low MF or to get ARP, the upfront cost is definitely a factor in the cost of using the product. And I am quite familiar with timeshare systems, you don't need to condescend me by explaining it.
 
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ecwinch

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While someone who is not an owner can certainly be knowledgeable about Wyndham, I am not sure why you keep arguing with owners about a product they do know. It is insulting to our intelligence to assume you know better when you haven't used the product.

Scott - I think Mary is providing some good advice here. Take a step back from the keyboard and consider for a moment the number of very knowledgable people who have used the product for years, and who you are disagreeing with. People who have spent time/energy explaining how your worldview might not be well rooted in how the Wyndham system works.
 

ronparise

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so here is Scotts argument "ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points"

Even if I agree with this my response has to be "so what? ; Who cares?"

There are two reasons for buying one resort or another when it comes to wyndam. wjappraise said it in his post above. Buy for the ARP or buy for the maintenance fees

If you are buying for ARP the cost to buy the points and the annual fees are not and cannot be your prime concern.

some examples

I live in Milwaukee (long cold winters) and want to take my family to the Wisconsin Dells several weekends every winter. Im going to buy my points from one resort, and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

Im old and retired and want to spend 2 months every year (Jan and Feb) in Florida Ive stayed at all the south Florida resorts and only Royal Vista will do...I dont care what the maintenance fees are

I live in New Orleans and every year host a housefull of people for Mardi Gras. A big problem for those of us that go into town for the parades is we have no place to pee.. This is a real problem there are even songs written about the problem
I want to reserve a mardi gras week at Labelle Maison and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

The folks in my examples have specific needs and if you were to tell them that their maintenance fees will be higher than if they were to buy cheaper resorts and take vacations they dont want. They will tell you "So what I dont care" and besides the mf is still cheaper than a comparable vacation rental"

So Scott even if I understood your your argument, it dosent matter


and those of us that rent (or did rent) aren't pegging our prices to our costs Its not a cost plus thing. We would do a little work to figure out what market rents are and then price our rentals just a little cheaper
 

MaryBella7

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so here is Scotts argument "ARP at specific resorts requires owning points from those resorts, and the maintenance of those points is often much higher than the lowest maintenance points"

Even if I agree with this my response has to be "so what? ; Who cares?"

There are two reasons for buying one resort or another when it comes to wyndam. wjappraise said it in his post above. Buy for the ARP or buy for the maintenance fees

If you are buying for ARP the cost to buy the points and the annual fees are not and cannot be your prime concern.

some examples

I live in Milwaukee (long cold winters) and want to take my family to the Wisconsin Dells several weekends every winter. Im going to buy my points from one resort, and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

Im old and retired and want to spend 2 months every year (Jan and Feb) in Florida Ive stayed at all the south Florida resorts and only Royal Vista will do...I dont care what the maintenance fees are

I live in New Orleans and every year host a housefull of people for Mardi Gras. A big problem for those of us that go into town for the parades is we have no place to pee.. This is a real problem there are even songs written about the problem
I want to reserve a mardi gras week at Labelle Maison and I dont care what the maintenance fees are

The folks in my examples have specific needs and if you were to tell them that their maintenance fees will be higher than if they were to buy cheaper resorts and take vacations they dont want. They will tell you "So what I dont care" and besides the mf is still cheaper than a comparable vacation rental"

So Scott even if I understood your your argument, it dosent matter


and those of us that rent (or did rent) aren't pegging our prices to our costs Its not a cost plus thing. We would do a little work to figure out what market rents are and then price our rentals just a little cheaper

Guilty of arguing back with him, and I have NEVER used an ARP reservation, but I see their value based on years of experience and reservations NOT received, and I know which ones would be worth it to me, or really anyone with any rental or future interest, even at a higher cost. It isn't the understanding of the argument, it really is that it doesn't matter based on the market - the big picture. It goes back to the Sheldon from when he first started posting in the Wyndham page. Lots of numbers, not a real analysis of the big picture. What do YOU want from your ownership? A spreadsheet doesn't fix or answer any of that.
 

CO skier

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MisterMoregore, if he made it this far in the discussion, must be thinking, “I asked a simple question about reserving Rhode Island during Peak Demand summer and what I got is how to disassemble and re-assemble a Swiss watch at the lowest possible cost.”

Reading between the lines of his Post #1, he purchased “points are points” contracts at resorts other than Rhode Island and is now concerned about availability to use these “points are points” in the standard reservation window. (ARP regret?)

He did not specify what size units he wants to reserve at Rhode Island, which is a critical consideration for whether Advance Reservation Priority is needed or not. Understandable that new owners do not know all the questions to ask.


Although MisterMoregore has already made purchases, posting his timeshare goals using the “What to Buy” questionnaire

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-newbies.208742/

and directing it to the Wyndham forum, since that is where he purchased, would definitely help Wyndham owners with experience help him to maximize his new ownership and offer constructive recommendations if he cannot reserve the units he wants at 10 months.
 

MaryBella7

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Newport is one of my favorite destinations, which is how I ended up on this thread, though derailed. IMHO Newport Onshore is your best location, but with the most fixed week ownership - hardest to get through points in the summertime - easier off season. Wyndham Long Wharf is your next best bet if you want larger than a 1 bedroom. It is easier to get a summer unit there, and the location is also pretty good. Inn on the Harbor and Inn on Long Wharf are located by both and are strictly 1 bedroom units. If that works for you, you get a water view in a great location with a kitchenette. Those are usually summertime possibilities. Parking is included for one spot in all, and that in itself is a plus in summertime Newport.

Jamestown is NOT near Newport - you will need to drive and pay bridge tolls and find parking. I know there are others, but I have not stayed at them and I do not think they are in the little town of Newport most tourists expect. You would need to drive.
 

antjmar

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Inn on the Harbor and Inn on Long Wharf are located by both and are strictly 1 bedroom units.

We Love Newport! Lots of good advice here!
Ill just add that the 1 bedroom "plus" at the Inn on the harbor sleeps up to 6. Most 1 bedrooms only sleep 4. This is a small room but if you want Newport in the Summer this is a bargain! Its only 126k Points for a summer week!
 

schoolmarm

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OK, here goes a post with more specific resorts -

An owner owns 500K points in San Francisco @ $3.50/1K but they only go to Atlantic City where maintenance is $6.50/1K.

The owner needs more points and is trying to decide between 500K more in San Francisco or 500K more in Atlantic City so that they can make ARP reservations in Atlantic City.

-Scott

Well, ok, except for the fact that it would be very rare to need ARP to book Atlantic City. Those of us who regularly use the reservation system know this. Those who have not used the reservation system don't. I DID use ARP to book the 4 BR Presidential once for attending a conference, and then downgraded it to the 2 BR Presidential when I realized that I wasn't bringing as many guests as I thought. Guess what...NO ONE reserved the 4 BR after I cancelled it a good 4-5 months before the reservation. NO ONE! It was empty! In fact, with the exception of the weekend, there were only two other units occupied in the Penthouse suites. Maybe it's different in the summer, though.

Scott, Wyndham is much more simple than you make it out with your numeric analysis...it is also more complicated due to the way the points are individually structured by week/season/unit size/weekday-weekend. Experienced owners know these nuances. And I really think that you are confusing newer owners or those who are considering buying Wyndham.

I'm so glad that MaryBella responded here, because most of us know that Newport is a little tricky, but not impossible to book. These are smaller resorts that have many fixed-week owners. I would like to go there sometime. Thank you, MaryBella, for your good information.
 

Cyrus24

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AFAIK, I have 210k CWA developer points, and 508k PIC points annually. All of those points qualify as CWA points for ARP. My MFs on those 508k PIC points are $1591.00 annually this year, plus 0.58/1000 points for the fees, for a total of $1885.64. I'm at $3.71/1000 points on MFs for the PIC contracts, and $5.77 plus fees for my 210k points. I therefore have ARP at 66 resorts across all 718k annual points if I'm understanding things correctly?
There is so much going on in this thread that I got lost figuring out if you were corrected on a part of your statement. You will be allowed ARP in a given year at the CWA resorts for up 210K points. The other 508 have no ARP benefits associated with them. Try to make a reservation in 2019 at 12 months for more than 210K points. The system won't let you. You can run the points calculator to prove this, as well. 210K will give you a nice vacation at locations where demand is very high during certain seasons, like those in Rhode Island. And, the 508K will serve you well when booking at 10 months in most locations.
 

paxsarah

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There is so much going on in this thread that I got lost figuring out if you were corrected on a part of your statement. You will be allowed ARP in a given year at the CWA resorts for up 210K points. The other 508 have no ARP benefits associated with them. Try to make a reservation in 2019 at 12 months for more than 210K points. The system won't let you. You can run the points calculator to prove this, as well. 210K will give you a nice vacation at locations where demand is very high during certain seasons, like those in Rhode Island. And, the 508K will serve you well when booking at 10 months in most locations.

Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?
 

Cyrus24

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Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?
I seldom use ARP and have never used RARP so I can't answer this. My instincts would say that they can't be used, but, I do not have personal knowledge. Maybe someone else with RARP experience can answer.
 

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Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?
I don’t think so from what I can tell. Once I get past 10 months out my points available doesn’t change. If I’m in RARP period it shows it as available and when I get farther out the RARP option drops off. You can only use ARP available points for RARP. Since converted weeks or PIC points have no ARP attached they will not show up as available points beyond 10 months using the points calculator.
 
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MaryBella7

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We Love Newport! Lots of good advice here!
Ill just add that the 1 bedroom "plus" at the Inn on the harbor sleeps up to 6. Most 1 bedrooms only sleep 4. This is a small room but if you want Newport in the Summer this is a bargain! Its only 126k Points for a summer week!

I need to use that advice for my future Newport vacations. We always skip because we need a 2 bedroom, but a 1 bedroom sleeping 6 will work!
 

MaryBella7

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Well, ok, except for the fact that it would be very rare to need ARP to book Atlantic City. Those of us who regularly use the reservation system know this. Those who have not used the reservation system don't. I DID use ARP to book the 4 BR Presidential once for attending a conference, and then downgraded it to the 2 BR Presidential when I realized that I wasn't bringing as many guests as I thought. Guess what...NO ONE reserved the 4 BR after I cancelled it a good 4-5 months before the reservation. NO ONE! It was empty! In fact, with the exception of the weekend, there were only two other units occupied in the Penthouse suites. Maybe it's different in the summer, though.

Scott, Wyndham is much more simple than you make it out with your numeric analysis...it is also more complicated due to the way the points are individually structured by week/season/unit size/weekday-weekend. Experienced owners know these nuances. And I really think that you are confusing newer owners or those who are considering buying Wyndham.

I'm so glad that MaryBella responded here, because most of us know that Newport is a little tricky, but not impossible to book. These are smaller resorts that have many fixed-week owners. I would like to go there sometime. Thank you, MaryBella, for your good information.

We go to Newport multiple times yearly, and as you can see, still do not know everything. I have lots of suggestions if you ever want to PM me. We really adore the area!
 

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Question from a non-VIP - could those 508k PIC points be used for RARP by gold and above at 11 months?

I just recently did this for 3 units at BC that totaled a little more than my non-PIC points.
 

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I just recently did this for 3 units at BC that totaled a little more than my non-PIC points.
Did you have to call in?
I tried online and get the Not Enough Points response
It will not let me exceed my total ARP points available
 
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pagosajim

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Did you have to call in?
I tried online and get the Not Enough Points response
It will not let me exceed my total ARP points available
When I tried to make a 4th reservation using RARP it claimed I didn't have enough points for the transaction, even though I did. I think it's a weak message back that's really indicative of having used up all my RARP privileges.

Edited to add: this was all done online.

Edited again to add: I had exceeded my CWP point allotment with the first 3-reservation set of transactions. Some of my PIC points were used to complete the 3rd reservation.
 

Braindead

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When I tried to make a 4th reservation using RARP it claimed I didn't have enough points for the transaction, even though I did. I think it's a weak message back that's really indicative of having used up all my RARP privileges.

Edited to add: this was all done online.

Edited again to add: I had exceeded my CWP point allotment with the first 3-reservation set of transactions. Some of my PIC points were used to complete the 3rd reservation.
I can understand that you went over your CWP point allotment because points are blind.

My question is.
Did the system allow you to go over your ARP point allocation to make the RARP reservation?
 
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