MVCI & ILG - Finally something that makes sense...?

[ljmiii]

From a MVCI owner's roadshow presentation...

The unsold Vistana/Hyatt inventory is going into the DP trust to allow MVCI DP owners access to those properties. MVCI has no intention of integrating the existing deeded Westin or Hyatt Owners or their weeks into the DP system.

This is the first time I've heard anything about the ILG acquisition that makes any sense. MVCI has experience running a weeks and points system side by side at their resorts. It makes perfect sense for them to do it the same way for their 'new' Vistana/Hyatt properties. The only down side is that locations with little unsold inventory or locations that can't be put into the trust (e.g. Bahamas and Mexico) will be unavailable. Perhaps at some point they may allow those owners to 'enroll'...but there is no rush.

 

[TXTortoise]

I wonder if that includes the few weeks remaining at Hyatt Maui.

 

[tschwa2]

I heard (rumor through sales dept at Harborside) that they may be accepting deed backs at Harborside before the end of the year. This would make sense if they were depositing them in MVCI trust. There are a ton of low season and even a fair number of winter and summer owners who would deed back if they could do so for under $500 because of the super high MF's.

 

[controller1]

Were these words in some form written OR were they only from the lips of a salesperson?

 

[Steve Fatula]

Were these words in some form written or were they only from the lips of a salesperson?

Well obviously that is true. Fun to speculate though. That's only about a dozen stories I've seen posted so far about what might happen! They can't all be true, if any of them are.

 

[andysnovel]

Well obviously that is true. Fun to speculate though. That's only about a dozen stories I've seen posted so far about what might happen! They can't all be true, if any of them are.

I guess it depends if it is a Vistana or Marriott salesperson and what they are enticing you to buy and how they spin it lol. Vistana owners are rooting for low cost integration with MVC and the sales folks are encouraging this sort of thinking, time will tell.

 

[ljmiii]

MVCI roadshow - so no sales pressure. Obviously ‘rumor’ in the sense of unofficial communication...but as I said it was the first time I’ve heard something about the ILG integration that actually made sense.

 

[JIMinNC]

From a MVCI owner's roadshow presentation...

The unsold Vistana/Hyatt inventory is going into the DP trust to allow MVCI DP owners access to those properties. MVCI has no intention of integrating the existing deeded Westin or Hyatt Owners or their weeks into the DP system.

This is the first time I've heard anything about the ILG acquisition that makes any sense. MVCI has experience running a weeks and points system side by side at their resorts. It makes perfect sense for them to do it the same way for their 'new' Vistana/Hyatt properties. The only down side is that locations with little unsold inventory or locations that can't be put into the trust (e.g. Bahamas and Mexico) will be unavailable. Perhaps at some point they may allow those owners to 'enroll'...but there is no rush.

What doesn't make sense to me about this explanation, is it offers no benefit to Westin/Sheraton/Hyatt owners to access MVCI inventory. Why would they make a one-sided decision?

 

[DannyTS]

What doesn't make sense to me about this explanation, is it offers no benefit to Westin/Sheraton/Hyatt owners to access MVCI inventory. Why would they make a one-sided decision?

I agree, it does not make a lot of sense because a) the Vistana/Hyatt owners would feel like second class citizens, not good for the business and b) the excitement of the MVC owners would be short lived when they realize how limited the Vistana inventory is since the only one they would access is the one owned by the developer. Not to mention the company uses this inventory for rentals and sales promotions and that business would be reduced to virtually zero.

 

[dougp26364]

General rule of thumb I have when it comes to timeshare management companies. If there’s a way to squeeze another penny out of existing owners, they’ll find it and do it.

To that end I anticipate some sort of combined club product that requires either some sort of joiner fee, intra-club exchange fee or, buy more inventory (points, weeks, whatever). Past that I’m not speculating. Last time thru MVC went completely sideways and what they came out with was way different than what many speculated or what was rumored by the sales staff.

So be happy with what you own and simply hope they come out with something that will enhance your experience without emptying your pocketbook to get it.

 

[dansimms]

I would like to think that anything brand new would be available to the entirety of the Owner base, for instance , the next Pulse or Canadian , European , Asian , etc,, expansion which could be substantial given the new size of the organization.

 

[bizaro86]

I really doubt they will just add the Vistana/Hyatt stuff to the DC for a bunch of reasons.

- it would cost them an opportunity to up sell existing Marriott DC owners a new "super-DC" access plan.

- it would neuter their ability to sell product at Vistana and especially Hyatt resorts, immediately making those sales centres less productive. The sales centres are always what they talk about adding, that's what they care about. I don't think their agreement with Hyatt allows them to sell other brands from those resorts.

I think by far the most likely option is an exchange company that swaps inventory at a certain point between the DC and the staroptions system. They could let either or both of existing DC owners and existing staroptions owners have free access, but my guess is that will require a minimum add on purchase for access.

They could just put all the Vistana inventory they own into the DC and start selling that, but given the amount of Mexico involved I think that is less likely.

 

[Swice]

I think it makes sense.

No matter which brand (Vistana/Hyatt whatever)... If unsold inventory goes into DC... that automatically would mean those old timeshare brands go away. The sales people would be selling the "larger and growing" Marriott system. Eventually, the old owners would have to buy DC points to play in the bigger sandbox.

 

[tschwa2]

and if the product is limited, they could keep it available as trust only inventory. This would give Marriott an opportunity to sell more trust points, if you want access to the Hyatt and Westin inventory you would need to purchase or purchase more trust points enough to actually book those weeks not to "supercharge" the rest of your legacy points. At some point if Marriott doesn't feel like they have enough inventory they could allow Hyatt and Westin owners to enroll if they buy either an equal number of trust points to the value of their weeks or set a minimum to enroll.

 

[JIMinNC]

I still can't see them doing something that would only benefit MVC owners and would sort of undercut the other half of their franchise. It would give the Vistana sales offices nothing new to sell. You don't spend as much money for another program as MVC did in buying ILG, and then torpedo the sales potential for that acquired program. You can't look at this from an MVC-centric perspective, since Marriott Vacations Worldwide now owns multiple brands/programs and they want them all to do well.

Is there even much unsold weeks inventory left in Vistana? Didn't Vistana put a lot of that unsold inventory into the Sheraton Flex and Westin Flex products?

The only way I could see them doing something like this would be if they merged the Westin Flex Trust and the Sheraton Flex Trust into the DC Trust in some way. But given there are different underlying legal docs for each Trust, that might require a vote of all the holders of the beneficial interests, to merge under one Trust. Something like that might, however, allow the sales offices to sell the point that the only way to access cross-program inventory would be to buy Westin Flex/Sheraton Flex/DC Trust Points. Then all of the sales offices would have a new benefit to sell. But then this approach would seems to favor Vistana over MVC, because the smaller pool of Westin Flex/Sheraton Flex owners would get access to all of the DC Trust, while DC Trust owners would only get access to relatively smaller Westin/Sheraton Flex pools.

 

[Venter]

I still can't see them doing something that would only benefit MVC owners and would sort of undercut the other half of their franchise. It would give the Vistana sales offices nothing new to sell. You don't spend as much money for another program as MVC did in buying ILG, and then torpedo the sales potential for that acquired program. You can't look at this from an MVC-centric perspective, since Marriott Vacations Worldwide now owns multiple brands/programs and they want them all to do well.

Is there even much unsold weeks inventory left in Vistana? Didn't Vistana put a lot of that unsold inventory into the Sheraton Flex and Westin Flex products?

The only way I could see them doing something like this would be if they merged the Westin Flex Trust and the Sheraton Flex Trust into the DC Trust in some way. But given there are different underlying legal docs for each Trust, that might require a vote of all the holders of the beneficial interests, to merge under one Trust. Something like that might, however, allow the sales offices to sell the point that the only way to access cross-program inventory would be to buy Westin Flex/Sheraton Flex/DC Trust Points. Then all of the sales offices would have a new benefit to sell. But then this approach would seems to favor Vistana over MVC, because the smaller pool of Westin Flex/Sheraton Flex owners would get access to all of the DC Trust, while DC Trust owners would only get access to relatively smaller Westin/Sheraton Flex pools.

Yes, but don't forget that flex has access to the whole pool at 8 months using Staroptions which could be a cross benefit to MVC owners.

 

[Sapper]

Curious what you think happens to the Hyatt properties. There was a very unpopular points program created a year ago, however, the majority ownership is deeded unit/week with specific point values for internal trading. Also, does Marriott even keep the properties branded as Hyatt (paying a direct competitor in the hotel business for the use of their name), create a new brand (please not something silly like Bonvoy), or roll the properties into an existing brand (Westin?). If the second or third option, what happens to the properties which are both hotel and timeshare mix like the Park Hyatt Beaver Creek or Highlands Inn?

 

[SueDonJ]

I don't know how Hyatt works. Does it have a Points system in addition to Weeks, that works somewhat similarly to Marriott's Destination Club and Vistana's (more limited) Flex system? And has anybody looked at whether or not each of the companies' governing docs or licensing agreements contain substantial impediments to totally integrating them into Marriott's Destination Club Trust?

What I see happening eventually, if Marriott keeps both Hyatt and Vistana, is them continuing to keep all three as separate entities under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, and within each expanding the Weeks/Points integration so that all three perform as much as possible like the Destination Club with Weeks enrollments and Points sales, but still as separate entities. Then, the Destination Club Exchange Company could be a quasi-internal exchange company for mingling inventory from and making it available to members from all three separate entities. It'd be easy enough to give owners a preference window to intervals under their own umbrella, like what happens now with Marriott inventory in II.

When the DC was introduced it was immediately apparent that the Destination Club Exchange Company could exist on its own as an exchange company completely controlled by MVW but not constrained to only Marriott inventory. I still think it was a conscious decision to not play up the Marriott name for that segment of the overall DC structure and implementation, still think they intend to expand their piece of the exchange pie in the industry.

My two cents, for whatever it's worth.

 

[VacationForever]

I don't know how Hyatt works. Does it have a Points system in addition to Weeks, that works somewhat similarly to Marriott's Destination Club and Vistana's (more limited) Flex system? And has anybody looked at whether or not each of the companies' governing docs or licensing agreements contain substantial impediments to totally integrating them into Marriott's Destination Club Trust?

What I see happening eventually, if Marriott keeps both Hyatt and Vistana, is them continuing to keep all three as separate entities under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, and within each expanding the Weeks/Points integration so that all three perform as much as possible like the Destination Club with Weeks enrollments and Points sales, but still as separate entities. Then, the Destination Club Exchange Company could be a quasi-internal exchange company for mingling inventory from and making it available to members from all three separate entities. It'd be easy enough to give owners a preference window to intervals under their own umbrella, like what happens now with Marriott inventory in II.

When the DC was introduced it was immediately apparent that the Destination Club Exchange Company could exist on its own as an exchange company completely controlled by MVW but not constrained to only Marriott inventory. I still think it was a conscious decision to not play up the Marriott name for that segment of the overall DC structure and implementation, still think they intend to expand their piece of the exchange pie in the industry.

My two cents, for whatever it's worth.

On the other hand, II is a high margin income generator and allowing internal exchange between the 3 systems will take business away from II.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Taking business away from II; is that a good thing or a bad thing?




.

 

[SueDonJ]

On the other hand, II is a high margin income generator and allowing internal exchange between the 3 systems will take business away from II.

I wonder if eventually all the big-name stuff will be imported from II into the Destination Club resulting in II becoming a smaller entity, effectively separating the two exchange companies and inventory by value within the overall industry, and Marriott either keeps the two exchange companies or sells off what remains of II?

 

[SueDonJ]

On the other hand, II is a high margin income generator and allowing internal exchange between the 3 systems will take business away from II.

Taking business away from II; is that a good thing or a bad thing?

<shrug> Internal exchanges among Marriotts via the Destination Club has been taking Marriott inventory away from II since 2010.

 

[Sapper]

I don't know how Hyatt works. Does it have a Points system in addition to Weeks, that works somewhat similarly to Marriott's Destination Club and Vistana's (more limited) Flex system? And has anybody looked at whether or not each of the companies' governing docs or licensing agreements contain substantial impediments to totally integrating them into Marriott's Destination Club Trust?

What I see happening eventually, if Marriott keeps both Hyatt and Vistana, is them continuing to keep all three as separate entities under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, and within each expanding the Weeks/Points integration so that all three perform as much as possible like the Destination Club with Weeks enrollments and Points sales, but still as separate entities. Then, the Destination Club Exchange Company could be a quasi-internal exchange company for mingling inventory from and making it available to members from all three separate entities. It'd be easy enough to give owners a preference window to intervals under their own umbrella, like what happens now with Marriott inventory in II.

When the DC was introduced it was immediately apparent that the Destination Club Exchange Company could exist on its own as an exchange company completely controlled by MVW but not constrained to only Marriott inventory. I still think it was a conscious decision to not play up the Marriott name for that segment of the overall DC structure and implementation, still think they intend to expand their piece of the exchange pie in the industry.

My two cents, for whatever it's worth.

I am not familiar enough with either Marriott DC or Vistana Flex to judge similarities with Hyatt. With Hyatt you have a deeded week and unit, if you decide to use your unit/week, it's yours. If you decide to trade internally, all unit/weeks have a specific number of points assigned to them and you may trade to any other unit type and week for equal or fewer points. If your unit/week has enough points assigned to it, and you are willing to trade into a smaller unit type or less desirable weeks or for fewer days, you can end up with multiple uses from your one owned unit/week.

About one year ago, Hyatt hired some Marriott guy who created the DC program. They then took all unsold inventory and dumped it into a Hyatt Points Program (HPP). This program cost is substantially more per point to buy into than the underlying deeds are worth, it has the less desirable deeds (think mud season at a ski resort) for inventory, and seemingly higher maintenance fees per point than most of the deed ownership. Hyatt also adds fees to HPP owners that do not exist for deeded owners (like a housekeeping fee). However, because the HPP is comprised of deeds they can be traded with other Hyatt unit/weeks using the internal system. Not surprisingly, the HPP has been a total flop.

 

[VacationForever]

Taking business away from II; is that a good thing or a bad thing?




.

Bad thing for Marriott business because Marriott also now owns II.

 

[VacationForever]

<shrug> Internal exchanges among Marriotts via the Destination Club has been taking Marriott inventory away from II since 2010.

... which has been the value proposition in selling trust points. Marriott also did not own II then.