Is it possible to get out of timeshare mortgage at Orange Lake?

[WVBaker]

You brought it up, so I thought you might have an answer.

Here's some more gleanings:

Orange Lake begins attempting to collect delinquent loans once the payment is seven days past due via telephone and 10 days past due via mail. At 30 days past due, Orange Lake will initiate the default process, and at 60 days past due, Orange Lake sends a demand letter requesting all delinquent amounts due be paid. Thirty days after the demand letter is sent to the obligor, if the obligor is 90 days delinquent on the scheduled payment on his or her timeshare loan, Orange Lake will send a default letter to the obligor advising him or her that failure to cure the default status of the account may result in the acceleration of the timeshare loan balance and possible legal action.

At closing, approximately 6.3% of the initial collateral includes loans made to foreign obligors, including Canadian obligors.

https://www.spratings.com/documents...ust2018A/244f0e13-9a79-4cf6-94dd-d5c2b88804fd

But I have not been able to find anything showing they handle foreign defaults differently than domestic.

Being a Canadian citizen and living in Canada, as long as he maintains and conducts all his future business in Canada, there's no automatic across the border collections. Sure, they can call, they can still send letters however, it's expensive for them to sue him to try to collect. They would still need get a judgement from a U.S. court, bring that judgement to a Canadian court to have it acknowledged
in Canada. That process, in and of itself, is quite expensive and time consuming. Can they do it, of course they can however, will they do it, it's doubtful. So much depends on the amount due and is it worth doing that. If I were him, I wouldn't buy any houses, property or maintain any assets in the U.S because, those would be open for attachment.

This not legal advice just experience so, I would have him consult an attorney just to be on the safe side.

 

[OldGuy]

Does anyone know if OLCC, or any Florida timeshare, pursue deficiency judgments?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Cindy, these people are trying to start a business and are concerned about their credit rating. I don't think under those circumstances, that walking away is a wise choice. Sure, if they were seniors who don't buy much on credit, absolutely- walk. But when they NEED credit, they need to protect it.

Jim

Okay, so I understand what you are saying. That makes sense. I just don't know what a foreclosure to an OLCC timeshare will do to their credit.

If they need good credit, then maybe a letter to OLCC to beg to get out would be a good idea. That is what these supposed lawyers do for people who have overpaid for a crappy timeshare. I would use recent resales on eBay as part of my letter. They are selling something for outrageous prices that is not worth the price paid.

 

[OldGuy]

Chrystalann24:

Does the debtor constantly monitor their credit score, are the delinquencies already on it, and has the score taken a hit?

I'm asking because if there are no derogatory notes yet, and they need to borrow money for business, now would be the time, or, if they are already on there, well . . .

 

[OldGuy]

This is interesting:

Generally, financing is not extended to a potential purchaser only if the purchaser is a party to an active bankruptcy case or has previously defaulted on an Orange Lake loan. Orange Lake applies FICO scoring to purchasers after the sale is completed rather than excluding financing of potential purchasers.

So, everyone gets financed unless they are in an active bankruptcy or have defaulted on OL before. They don't even look at FICO scores until after the sale, and then only use it to evaluate their marketing systems.

I was astounded by default rates in the reports I'm reading, but this explains that.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Timeshares are still wonderful, and some of us here have made our mistakes long ago, and we just learned to use it. That could be a good lesson for the future. Ultimately, I am glad to have what we have and kind of accepted that I was stupid in 1981 and 1982.

 

[AJCts411]

A Canadian, I have a credit reporting/protection plan from one of the big Canadian (and US) credit agencies. I also have a two USA bank issued credit cards and had previous credit facilities in the USA. In my case the USA credit does not show on by credit report, only my Canadian credit is reported on. I'm suggesting that USA debt/credit is not reported on to Canada.

 

[Passepartout]

In my case the USA credit does not show on by credit report, only my Canadian credit is reported on. I'm suggesting that USA debt/credit is not reported on to Canada.

Interesting- but not unexpected. Thanks for the report.

 

[bankr63]

As a former Canadian Banker in the Credit industry, I can state the the bureaus do not cross report. Canada uses the same bureaus, TransUnion Equifax and Experiean, but federal law on both sides of the border prohibit the sharing of credit bureau information cross border. Here is a simple explanation from Experian (US site):

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/canadian-credit-history-will-not-transfer-to-u-s/

I have dealt with many an unhappy American expat trying to get credit in Canada only to discover that they have absolutely no credit history in Canada and we have no way to access it. And I was with an American headquartered bank.

It is highly unlikely that OLCC would go the expense of pursuit of the remaining obligation through the Canadian courts if it is as small as I would think after 9 years of payments. A court judgement is probably the only way to blemish the Canadian record (I have never seen such a thing on a credit bureau report, but not saying it can't be done.) I am assuming that OLCC did not go to the trouble of registering a Provincial PPSA (Personal Property Security Act) here when the obligation was first established; if they did this will show on your credit report as an obligation, not as a payment history.

I would start with a call to the resort offering the deed back, and discretely ask them what their process is for collection against Canadian debtors. Causing them to stop and think about the process themselves may change the tune a bit. I would think that the offer of a deedback vs. pursuing an international debt might be palatable to them.

ETA: I feel obligated to add the disclaimer that this is an opinion based on personal work experience and good working knowledge of Canadian Banking Regulations. I would, as others have said, seek professional advice from a lawyer who is experienced in transborder credit issues (your average lawyer will probably have less real experience with this than I have). Start with a search for a Canadian based Tax Lawyer with US specialization. Anyone who can understand the tax situations between our nations should be able to handle this and also provide advice on how it may affect future investments in the US. Depending on the nature of the business, a US bureau might come into play. His Canadian record may be clean, but he will have a black mark SOTB for sure!

 

[OldGuy]

I'm still curious what OLCC does to pursue Canadian delinquencies, and, here we have one, so are we gonna find out?

 

[WVBaker]

I'm still curious what OLCC does to pursue Canadian delinquencies, and, here we have one, so are we gonna find out?

That would be a great question for InterContinental Hotels Group PLC., which I believe owns OLCC.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, it's quite arduous and expensive for any corporation to pursue these matters across borders. Most cases are simply not worth the time and costs involved. Matters like this are nothing more than the cost of doing business. The losses involved may just be recovered elsewhere. All businesses know this going in and as noted above, it can
of course be done however, is it worth it?

 

[OldGuy]

When I saw in the financial reports that they made a point of what percentage of sales were to foreigner, and they actually said, including Canadians, what I read into that is that they considered those sales greater risks, but would do them any way, hoping some of it would stick, or respond to their almost-immediate (10 days late) collections efforts.

 

[easyrider]

If a foreigner buys a product and is extended credit there would be no credit check. It would be an un-secured closed end loan, aka signature loan, aka personal loan. The creditor would not be able to tarnish the foreigners credit history for non-payment of the debt without going to court in a foreign country.

In the USA, the creditor can go to court and get a judgement on the debt but if the debtor can not be found the creditor can go through a substitute service process to notify the debtor. Substitute service is like a notice in the paper or sending a notice to the address provided by the debtor.

Collecting on the judgement would be difficult if the debtor has no assets in the country the debt originated. The cost of collecting in a different country makes it a waste of time. What usually happens is these debts are tax write offs to the creditor and then sold to debt collectors that will try to get the debtor to sign a promissory note in the country they reside.

Bill

 

[chapjim]

The most common advice from many here is Just Sell It.

That's not common advice at all. It is advice that only the uninformed would give.

 

[silentg]

Have you been using the week? Hopefully you have gotten some vacations? Have you tried renting it to others? It’s a shame if it just sits there unused.
Silentg

 

[OldGuy]

That's not common advice at all. It is advice that only the uninformed would give.

Thank you.

Yet, when it comes to ending your timeshare days, that's the only advice some have to give. Maybe they've never gotten to that point, and actually believe they can.

I always said when we're done we would just walk away from them.

We started walking 11 years ago, and with the deed back quitclaim deed sitting here right now, that's six, and last, of those we want to walk away from.
- - - - - -
So, wonder want OLCC does with delinquent Canadians.

 

[chapjim]

Thank you.

Yet, when it comes to ending your timeshare days, that's the only advice some have to give. Maybe they've never gotten to that point, and actually believe they can.

I always said when we're done we would just walk away from them.

We started walking 11 years ago, and with the deed back quitclaim deed sitting here right now, that's six, and last, of those we want to walk away from.

How many of your deedbacks had an unpaid balance on the loan? OP still owes money on the purchase.

I have deeded back weeks to the resort or resort company by signing a quit claim deed. That's not the same thing as selling a contract with an outstanding loan, which is what you said was common advice ("just sell it").

 

[OldGuy]

Still, regardless, I wonder what OLCC does to try to collect from Canadian defaulters.

 

[OldGuy]

So, to summarize the options given thus far:

***Do something . . . contact OLCC and let them know you are going to default, and give them the option to take it back, or . . .

***Do nothing . . . since contacting OLCC to let them know you are going to default may prompt them to take further action, whatever that might be.

 

[Gypsy65]

OL 9 years ago was what $17,000??
There can’t be much balance even owed on it at this point.
Call and find out. If it’s a small amount you might just want to pay it off and use it or OL May take it back as it has a higher resale value to them??