Owner Updates...Goodbye Maybe

[moore_stan]

I bought a resale timeshare years ago off EBay. It is all I want. I am harassed at every resort just so I can get my required parking pass that they could give me at the check in desk.

As I type this, I am currently at a Wyndham Resort. I was so frustrated yesterday to spend 10 minutes telling the guy and his Supervisor I did not want a free breakfast and a gift to be further harassed with a salesman who doesn’t understand the word “No.” We have two small children and we have done this before.

I am still so mad. I called Wyndham Ovation. The put me on a “Do not solicit” list. I was assured I won’t be harassed anymore. She said if I was, call to Customer Care (I believe). Further, I spoke with the front desk here and he said they will likely see a DNG (do not gift) in their computer next check in. We will be given a parking pass by “concerige” and not harassed at all. Hope this works.

 

[Shankilicious]

That makes me sad to hear. There are enough potential new owners out there that resort chains don't need to harass current owners. If an owner goes in for an update, that's the time to sell to current owners.
Welk has toned it way back on this. The last 3 times I've gone for an update, they didn't say a word about extra gifts/special offers at check in. I hope this doesn't change cuz it used to be exactly like you described. Hella frustrating. I feel for ya stan.

 

[HitchHiker71]

That makes me sad to hear. There are enough potential new owners out there that resort chains don't need to harass current owners. If an owner goes in for an update, that's the time to sell to current owners.
Welk has toned it way back on this. The last 3 times I've gone for an update, they didn't say a word about extra gifts/special offers at check in. I hope this doesn't change cuz it used to be exactly like you described. Hella frustrating. I feel for ya stan.

Who is Welk?

 

[Shankilicious]

Yeah yeah. It's a small company but is growing, gaining affiliate resorts and has amazing trading power. I'm bummed about your experience cuz Wyndham/Worldmark is the only other resort I'd consider owning with.

 

[SmithOp]

Sorry you felt put upon, I always look at it as an opportunity to have some fun with the body snatcher. I’ve made up some whoppers, like telling them maybe next time when I bring my wife since this visit is with my girlfriend.


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[CPNY]

That makes me sad to hear. There are enough potential new owners out there that resort chains don't need to harass current owners. If an owner goes in for an update, that's the time to sell to current owners.
Welk has toned it way back on this. The last 3 times I've gone for an update, they didn't say a word about extra gifts/special offers at check in. I hope this doesn't change cuz it used to be exactly like you described. Hella frustrating. I feel for ya stan.

These companies make close to 60% of sales on existing customers. If you bought in once you’re more likely to buy in again. In my short time here I’ve noticed that even the “buy resale” crowd occasionally buy developer again because “this time it made sense”. I’m not saying it doesn’t, maybe if you value elite status and it may, if that’s what you value. All I’m saying is, they are def more aggressive with existing owners because at some point we saw value In it. Can’t fault them, it’s their job and everyone is always a potential customer. ESPECIALLY one at the resort. However they got there, whether it be points, ownership, or a booking site. You chose to be there, why not sell them on coming back or the “wonders” of traveling the world..........based on availability and having enough points so buy buy buy more. lol (sarcasm there)

 

[Shankilicious]

Yeah, I hear ya. But I'd rather have a resort kill me with kindness and customer service. Make me feel valued and like a VIP and I'm gonna be 3x as likely to buy into what you're selling.

 

[bendadin]

I have never seen sales get rid of a person faster than when they don't make the minimum income (which I think was around $65k/year.) The family was pretty upset about not getting their gift but they were "escorted" out SO fast.

 

[Shankilicious]

I have never seen sales get rid of a person faster than when they don't make the minimum income (which I think was around $65k/year.) The family was pretty upset about not getting their gift but they were "escorted" out SO fast.

Yeah, that's the first thing I get asked when I tell my guy in promotions that I have a referral coming to stay at Welk, "do they make at least $50k?" Which, as a financially savvy person, makes sense that they have a minimum but that is WAY too low for Welk and most developer prices. Oughta be more like $100k....

 

[CPNY]

Yeah, that's the first thing I get asked when I tell my guy in promotions that I have a referral coming to stay at Welk, "do they make at least $50k?" Which, as a financially savvy person, makes sense that they have a minimum but that is WAY too low for Welk and most developer prices. Oughta be more like $100k....

It is for Vistana/MVC presentations.

 

[Gypsy65]

I think this is sorta like the bar theory

I had a friend years ago. Would hit on every woman in the bar

His theory?
Hit on them all. Your odds go way up!!

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think this is sorta like the bar theory

I had a friend years ago. Would hit on every woman in the bar

His theory?
Hit on them all. Your odds go way up!!

Sales is a numbers game, pure and simple. You have to be the type of person that doesn't mind hearing no 90% of the time to get to the 10% that say yes. What is changing in the sales vertical is that relational sales is dying a slow death as the internet has become the great equalizer when it comes to access to pretty much every and any kind of supporting data - it's all within our grasp with a few clicks on our smartphones now. Reputational sales is the future - based upon metrics and reputational data which is again easily accessible via the internet. TUG is built on this principle at least in part. This is what Wyndham needs to wake the hell up about. Companies larger than Wyndham have failed under their own weight by practicing ignorance with respect to this sea change in the sales vertical toward reputational modeling. Are you listening Wyndham?

 

[Jan M.]

Sales is a numbers game, pure and simple. You have to be the type of person that doesn't mind hearing no 90% of the time to get to the 10% that say yes. What is changing in the sales vertical is that relational sales is dying a slow death as the internet has become the great equalizer when it comes to access to pretty much every and any kind of supporting data - it's all within our grasp with a few clicks on our smartphones now. Reputational sales is the future - based upon metrics and reputational data which is again easily accessible via the internet. TUG is built on this principle at least in part. This is what Wyndham needs to wake the hell up about. Companies larger than Wyndham have failed under their own weight by practicing ignorance with respect to this sea change in the sales vertical toward reputational modeling. Are you listening Wyndham?

I've been saying something along the same lines. Wyndham has a great product but their sales practices don't reflect that. Continuing to use the same outmoded sales tactics in today's world shows lack of vision in the company's leadership.

The 90% who don't buy often walk away offended by the sales tactics, the inconsistent prices, the lies, etc. The old saying about an unhappy customer is now often being rephrased to say "tells the world" because of the internet and social media. In looking up that saying I found an article that I'm quoting from below. Pay close attention to the dates and think how many more people have smart phones and are computer literate enough to do basic searches now than 10 years ago when this incident took place.

Myth: The average unhappy customer will tell 10 people about the poor service he or she received.

One of the top marketing research firms in the country, TARP, conducted a study for Coca-Cola in 1981 and found that a median of 10 people heard about a bad experience for a small ticket packaged good. Despite the fact that subsequent studies showed that the magnitude of word of mouth varied by product, price and industry (people would tell 16 people about a negative auto repair experience, for example) a rule of thumb evolved in marketing circles that an unhappy customer will tell 10 people about the poor service he or she received.

On July 6, 2009 Canadian musician David Carroll and his band, Sons of Maxwell, blew the lid off that rule by uploading a song onto YouTube that chronicled a real-life experience of how his $3,500 Taylor guitar was broken during a trip on United Airlines in 2008 (and how United handled it). At the end of the first day the number of views totaled 150,000 and three days later on July 9, it had amassed 500,000 hits, 5 million by mid-August, and today (April 7, 2011) it has received 10,233,487 hits!

 

[paxsarah]

On July 6, 2009 Canadian musician David Carroll and his band, Sons of Maxwell, blew the lid off that rule by uploading a song onto YouTube that chronicled a real-life experience of how his $3,500 Taylor guitar was broken during a trip on United Airlines in 2008 (and how United handled it). At the end of the first day the number of views totaled 150,000 and three days later on July 9, it had amassed 500,000 hits, 5 million by mid-August, and today (April 7, 2011) it has received 10,233,487 hits!

That's funny - this just came up on my Timehop a couple days ago from when I tweeted about it on 7/7/2009!

 

[OutSkiing]

We like to go to the updates to get 25,000 or 30,000 Wyndham rewards points. That is worth two nights in a Las Vegas type hotel like Flamingo or Paris or up to 6 nites stay at a roadside motel like Baymont Inn.

If they ask why you attended, its because you’re maximizing your ownership.

Bob

 

[bestpal38]

We like to go to the updates to get 25,000 or 30,000 Wyndham rewards points. That is worth two nights in a Las Vegas type hotel like Flamingo or Paris or up to 6 nites stay at a roadside motel like Baymont Inn.

If they ask why you attended, its because you’re maximizing your ownership.

Bob

When they ask me why I attend, I say, "honestly??? I'm here for the money, and breakfast!!" Not sure the Don not sell list works, as I was just in Vegas again 2 weeks after supposedly being put on a Do not sell list, and they begged me to attend. I had to be at the airport at 8am, so no way I could have, and they still didn't want to accept that answer.

 

[Gypsy65]

We go to some updates. But when we don’t. My wife unplugs the room phones

 

[HitchHiker71]

I've been saying something along the same lines. Wyndham has a great product but their sales practices don't reflect that. Continuing to use the same outmoded sales tactics in today's world shows lack of vision in the company's leadership.

The 90% who don't buy often don't buy walk away offended by the sales tactics, the inconsistent prices, the lies, etc. The old saying about an unhappy customer is now often being rephrased to say "tells the world" because of the internet and social media. In looking up that saying I found an article that I'm quoting from below. Pay close attention to the dates and think how many more people have smart phones and are computer literate enough to do basic searches now than 10 years ago when this incident took place.

Myth: The average unhappy customer will tell 10 people about the poor service he or she received.

One of the top marketing research firms in the country, TARP, conducted a study for Coca-Cola in 1981 and found that a median of 10 people heard about a bad experience for a small ticket packaged good. Despite the fact that subsequent studies showed that the magnitude of word of mouth varied by product, price and industry (people would tell 16 people about a negative auto repair experience, for example) a rule of thumb evolved in marketing circles that an unhappy customer will tell 10 people about the poor service he or she received.

On July 6, 2009 Canadian musician David Carroll and his band, Sons of Maxwell, blew the lid off that rule by uploading a song onto YouTube that chronicled a real-life experience of how his $3,500 Taylor guitar was broken during a trip on United Airlines in 2008 (and how United handled it). At the end of the first day the number of views totaled 150,000 and three days later on July 9, it had amassed 500,000 hits, 5 million by mid-August, and today (April 7, 2011) it has received 10,233,487 hits!

Yes, this is a great example of what I was saying. When relational sales ruled, the average ratio was 10:1, going perhaps as high as 25:1 for very large ticket items such as auto repairs, auto purchases, etc. The only way we could share information was via the relationships we had with those around us, via direct contact with friends and family or over the old fashioned dial up telephone. Nowadays, it's all about scaling the relationships we have via the internet, coupled with reputation engines galore. People routinely have 500+ Facebook "friends", hundreds of LinkedIn contacts, etc. And when a subset of those 500+ Facebook friends re-share your content - that's what creates viral outbreaks on the internet. That's how David Carroll's post hit 10MM plus people. Couple this with the reputation engines out there - eBay and Amazon being two huge examples - along with the ubiquitous amount of data readily available to all of us via the internet search engines - and it's a different world altogether now. Any company that doesn't adapt - will eventually fail under the weight of their own negative reputation, it's just a matter of time.

 

[dgalati]

Yes, this is a great example of what I was saying. When relational sales ruled, the average ratio was 10:1, going perhaps as high as 25:1 for very large ticket items such as auto repairs, auto purchases, etc. The only way we could share information was via the relationships we had with those around us, via direct contact with friends and family or over the old fashioned dial up telephone. Nowadays, it's all about scaling the relationships we have via the internet, coupled with reputation engines galore. People routinely have 500+ Facebook "friends", hundreds of LinkedIn contacts, etc. And when a subset of those 500+ Facebook friends re-share your content - that's what creates viral outbreaks on the internet. That's how David Carroll's post hit 10MM plus people. Couple this with the reputation engines out there - eBay and Amazon being two huge examples - along with the ubiquitous amount of data readily available to all of us via the internet search engines - and it's a different world altogether now. Any company that doesn't adapt - will eventually fail under the weight of their own negative reputation, it's just a matter of time.

How many catalog companies and retail stores are out of business because they didn't change their business model. Many retail stores didn't want to create a internet site that would cannibalize the retail location. Many failed to adapt and move fast enough before Internet sales became the norm.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I just had one of my best rental customers tell me their last visit to Bonnet Creek (in May) was terrible. They said sales (or whoever was calling) would not take no for an answer. She said no at checkin and they kept calling the room. And since she got home, they've called a few more times. Very frustrating for her (and frustrating for me to hear). I had a customer a few years back that said they'd never rent (a Wyndham) again because of the harassment. The stories sure do vary, must depend on how badly they need to make a sale at the time. But why can't no mean no?

I am on the the do not tour list. It is remarkably pleasant: checkin, they give you your parking pass, info about the area, and send you on your way. They rarely solicit to any of the owners on the account. Unfortunately, the account classification is not inherited by our guests :-(

 

[Gypsy65]

I just had one of my best rental customers tell me their last visit to Bonnet Creek (in May) was terrible. They said sales (or whoever was calling) would not take no for an answer. She said no at checkin and they kept calling the room. And since she got home, they've called a few more times. Very frustrating for her (and frustrating for me to hear). I had a customer a few years back that said they'd never rent (a Wyndham) again because of the harassment. The stories sure do vary, must depend on how badly they need to make a sale at the time. But why can't no mean no?

I am on the the do not tour list. It is remarkably pleasant: checkin, they give you your parking pass, info about the area, and send you on your way. They rarely solicit to any of the owners on the account. Unfortunately, the account classification is not inherited by our guests :-(

Can you request a do not tour to be added to units you book on customers behalf?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Can you request a do not tour to be added to units you book on customers behalf?

Not that I know of...

 

[ecwinch]

Can you request a do not tour to be added to units you book on customers behalf?

It is a small sample size, but the few guests I have do not get solicited. And I am on the DNG list.

 

[Grammarhero]

My cousin-in-Law owns at WorldMark. Apparently, he says no and pretends not to understand English to end presentations early.


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[Guitarmom]

We just got back from Welk San Diego. As we left, I expressed surprise to DH that Welk had NEVER asked us to attend an owners update. No email before, no call before, no attempt at check-in, no call during the week, no follow up call ten days later with a discount, NOTHING!

It felt like a real vacation.

I remember Welk surveyed me during the summer and I said that Owners Updates were the worst part of Welk. I wonder if I got put onto a Do Not Solicit list. A gal can dream ..